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| Tier List; Opinionated tier lists | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:22 pm (2,308 Views) | |
| gwaposidemz | Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:22 pm Post #1 |
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Soldier
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ok because of the character overhaul from the last game i think that some of us should share who they think is good in this game i have a few characters to think for top tier because i have not played all of them so here are my opinions and guidelines why I chose them. No tenbu is used on my setups No particular order. Top 5 1. Himiko Dir+R1 buff gives her 2 additional weapons it is simply amazing for it makes crowd control,officer killing easy with just the S string on chaos mode, her R1 is the sole exception from the projectile nerf of the speed types she has mitsunari's firepower from WO1 2.Yoshitsune Minamoto (Zer0) C5 is just too broken when used in dense crowds all officers are one hit koed R1 buff is just too damn ridiculous especially once you hit the 100 hit combo mark 3. Sun Goku Move speed combined with ridiculous C4 is enough to make him into an utility character for crowd and officer clearing though R1 is meh 4. Cao Ren(Rockman) Though majority of the DW characters were greatly punished for being too broken(some sliding dancer and big sworded punk comes to mind) Cao Ren was one of the few exceptions in fact he became better C2-ex (FIFTY THOUSAND!!!)activates elements on both strikes turned from land mine attack to nuclear bomb and C3-ex activates elements on all strikes with absorb equipped the musou consumption is taken back meaning it is spammable 5. Kojiro Sasaki C4 is decent for crowds so is C5 BUT IMO!!! his true power lies with in this moves C7, C8, and his musou C7 is a ridiculous move you are in red health one or two C7s later boom 3/4 of your life is returned you dont need meatbuns and meat the best thing is the health restored is fixed whether you use it on peons and officers alike C8 is an infinite combo if used properly and his musou is one reason i put ice in his weapon just too damn powerful. OK very long post just post your opinions i'll post tommorow coz its already 12 am here in the Philippines Good night |
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| Ranmaru87 | Tue Jun 3, 2008 10:10 am Post #2 |
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Tiger General
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I think, the best is : Lu Bu Miyamoto Musashi Zhao Yun |
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| snipe601 | Tue Jun 3, 2008 11:12 am Post #3 |
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Tiger General
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Pretty hard to create a tier list in this installment esp with that all mighty tenbu ability. Anyway, most of the new characters are so darn cheap. I had a hard time to decide whether kiyomori, yoshitsune, wukong, himiko, or taigong wang is the better one. And i have this feeling that cao ren is gonna share the same fate as mitsunari in the next installment. (if they ever make one of coz) |
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| Mr.Honda | Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:02 pm Post #4 |
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Just remember, it was stated in the first post, that tenbu/almighty is not being considered for tier list discussion because it makes everyone broken. I've been paying a bit more attention lately to the WO tiers list discussion at GameFAQs and seeing that Tadakatsu Honda remains largely unchanged between installments, I'm going to say that he will remain in the top tier. Others who used to be top tier (see Diao Chan, Guan Ping, Mitsunari Ishida, etc.) got hit with the nerf stick and lost some of what made them top tier material. Zuo Ci and Musashi Miyamoto should also remain top tier since I don't believe they were negatively changed I'd like to see the crew at GameFAQs tackle this one when it hits US shores
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| Crimsondramon | Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:16 pm Post #5 |
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Your soul is weighed down by gravity
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Tadakatsu's still unchanged from what I've seen...Think Sun wukong will be one of the top few. |
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| LittleDragonZ | Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:19 pm Post #6 |
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ReVeluv
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I agree. Tenbu makes everyone move at incredible speed. Though you can still pick-out the slow characters like Xu Zhu lol. So yeah, it would be extremely hard to keep narrowing the list down and compare the characters the Tenbu way. Sun Wukong's got to be high up in the list? His speed is more like cheating then anything, thanks to his Nimbus/cloud and class type. I haven't watched too many clips, but I've seen quite a bit whilst watching a various amount of characters, and from what I've seen Sun Wukong looks like he's going to be a blast to play. I can't wait to use him! |
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| Crimsondramon | Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:23 pm Post #7 |
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Your soul is weighed down by gravity
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You'll definately enjoy him speediness I guarantee...:) He's quite strong too. Hmm..who else..Nu Wa might be, because of her broken L+R1, and her Musou's pretty deadly... Orochi without question (no biasness invovled) |
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| Mr.Honda | Tue Jun 3, 2008 2:42 pm Post #8 |
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Agreed. Sun Wukong should be fairly high, though remember that he does have long recovery time after some of his charge attacks Plus, Chaos mode is a bit subdued in this one. He would be worse off in the WO Chaos mode with that recovery time
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| Rydain | Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:49 pm Post #9 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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I've already started making observations as I play. Can everyone remind us of what they look for in a high tier character? This is a personal opinion thread, so no need to agree on a tier definition. It's just good to know where everyone's coming from. This can also help others pick out effective characters that suit their play style. I consider characters maxed and mastered (level 99, tricked-out 4th with any elements and enchants other than Tenbu, any abilities) in the context of no-pickup max-star chaos solo runs. If characters need to replenish health or musou, they must get it from their weapon setup or abilities. In my view, a high tier character can safely and quickly defeat officers regardless of where they are - by themselves, in peon crowds, with other officers, etc. Safety is still important in this game. Chaos enemy attack may be toned down, but you can still eat a lot of damage if enemies get a good combo going. The initial strike does less damage than it does on WO chaos, but subsequent strikes hit harder. Top tier would consist of the characters who have especially fast offense in all situations in the game. Since anti-firepower aptitude isn't a big deal any more thanks to the Nanman Armor enchant and firepower damage nerf, this boils down to steamrolling officer pileups regardless of what sort of crowds they're in. Some characters with especially fast anti-officer-pileup offense are unchanged from WO. This includes Musashi, Tadakatsu, and Kunoichi. Da Ji lost elements on her early charges, but her primary anti-pileup offense is her unchanged and awesome C4. Zuo Ci lost his elemental C2 and his palm strike got nerfed, but it hardly matters because his C3 is elemental on all strikes and covers a wide area. Cao Ren can now compete with the fastest killers thanks to that wide-reaching, hard-hitting, self-replenishing C3-ex. BTW, Sun Wukong has no need for the jump cancel enchant because he's a speed type and can already JC out of his monkey antics. He's definitely a high tier character, though I'm not sure that his anti-pileup offense is as ridiculously overpowered as that of Musashi and company.
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| Crimsondramon | Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:51 pm Post #10 |
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Your soul is weighed down by gravity
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Ah yes! Musashi..he's god broken..can kill an officer in 1 hit if levelled high enough and equipped with the right skills. |
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| Mr.Honda | Tue Jun 3, 2008 4:16 pm Post #11 |
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I figured you would
I'd say you pretty much summed up what I look for in a high-tier character. I personally think a high-tier character should be able to handle the toughest scenarios the game has to offer in the quickest, safest and most efficient way. This would include: - Mulitple officers pileups - Large, dense crowds of enemies (including archers, riflemen) - One-on-one against the strongest opponent So basically, I would say that the current WO tier list definition works for me The one thing that I would also consider, just not sure how to word it best, is overall mobility of the character (i.e. who can get from Point A to Point B the quickest and clear the stage faster than other characters). For example, Sun Wukong's movement in this game is too good to discount from a tiers list discussion based on the above criteria. With stages that enemies summon poisonous fog that depletes your health over time, mobility can play a major factor in your survivability. He might not defeat the enemies faster, but he can get to them faster and possibly make up the time. |
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| snipe601 | Tue Jun 3, 2008 5:25 pm Post #12 |
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Tiger General
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Lu bu probably deserves top tier this time due to the fact that his c3 now activates elements just like in dw5. Keiji, tadakatsu and musashi shud remain there. Though i think yoshitsune shud be in the top tier oso, if not at least the tier right below the top tier. From what i saw, his charge moves do a lot of damage and he can even power up his sword to a more powerful version just like nagamasa in the basara series. Kiyomori could probably get into top tier but i doubt that due to his slow running speed and his skills consume a lot of musou. Sun wukong definately makes it into the top tier due to his insane speed. |
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| Yedo | Tue Jun 3, 2008 7:57 pm Post #13 |
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Words Words Words ghghg hg hgh
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I was just wondering...Wouldn't a tier list also be appropriate for Versus mode? All the characters are at their standard stats. You can judge characters solely on their movelists. |
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| gwaposidemz | Wed Jun 4, 2008 8:45 am Post #14 |
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Soldier
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Hmm lu-bu top tier not quite c3 can't one hit ko generics even if maximizations come to mind all his useful charges don't activate multi. c6 is ground pound and c3 is a shockwave if i would say mid tier at best zhou yu on the other hand is a potential candidate r1 dmg is still the same and c4 is a multi elemental attack and c2-ex is still intact, he just got better. To add diao chan deserves the nerf!!
BTW Rydain what stage is appropriate for tier testing? because there is no stage that has DD Lu-Bu or any kind of crazy enemy in this game and in the 5-star stages Lu-bu is an ally(Wu)
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| Rydain | Wed Jun 4, 2008 1:39 pm Post #15 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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@Hakumei - You could probably make a vs. mode tier list by tallying up favorable and unfavorable 1 on 1 match-ups. @gwaposidemz - I agree that Lu Bu is underwhelming in this game. C3 may have a shockwave, which is good, but it's nowhere near as excellent as it was in DW5. Lu Bu has to go through several non-elemental swings to get to the good part, even if you do an untapped charge (pressing T only once). The initial swings are usually blocked. No part of the charge is strong by default. C4 doesn't seem to have generic OHKO potential. Its geometry is downright strange, causing it to miss targets right in front of me sometimes. It also flings enemies far away every time so Lu Bu will have far slower offense than other characters who need to repeatedly attack and chase. To add insult to injury, his C6 was nerfed. It doesn't appear to activate elements until the final stomp, meaning that it probably can't KO a generic any more. As to testing stages - yeah, it's unfortunate that there aren't any powered-up boss critters available to everyone. Wei 8 is the one I would use because the large numbers of boars and hyper generics (including the occasional hyper boar) will show differences in offense between characters who can quickly KO typical generics. Not all of these characters can be as efficient with stronger targets, and if there are a lot of stronger enemies in a battle - you get the idea. Wei 8 also gives you pileups if you don't blitz it. SW 8 might be good for crowds and melee confusion. |
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| gwaposidemz | Wed Jun 4, 2008 4:34 pm Post #16 |
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Soldier
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wei 8 huh? better try it out myself maybe i could find possible new combos for shockwave oriented characters to deal strong damage i found out that shockwaves deal a random amount of damage maybe because of collateral bolt damage because sometimes it can one hit ko generics in a vast crowd without the non-elemental strikes that come beforehand, also the type of reaction after the shockwaves vary, sometimes they are stunned for a long time just enough for another followup attack or they are thrown away in a distance meaning you have to give chase giving me the idea that shockwaves are inconsistent forms of offense right? |
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| M.O.G. | Wed Jun 4, 2008 5:02 pm Post #17 |
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Michael on my right, and Raziel on my left
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Well if that's the case the Orochi and Shin Orochi will forever remain in the top tier. Even with all of the spammable moves and things I've seen from other characters. Without tenbu/Almighty, it seems only a few characters are even in the same ranking as these two. |
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| Rydain | Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:56 pm Post #18 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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I need to look into this further because I'm not sure how much difference between characters it will actually show. Wu 8 might be worthwhile for no-pickup solo run testing because it puts you in sudden death mode. At the beginning of the level, you're stuck on the flaming boats for two and a half minutes while waiting for the bridges to form. This will deplete your life to a sliver. Adrenalin refilling stalls this process to some extent. Still, if you aren't taking recovery drops, you're going to wind up one hit from dead no matter what. Characters without any safe way to exploit Adrenalin will be at a disadvantage. They can still heal by turtling with allies near the altar, but their offense will be slower because of this. (Whereas characters with better defense and Adrenalin recovery can carry on as usual, safely healing while capturing the altar.) If Da Ji sets the enemy fleet on fire, you'll be dealing with health depletion once again. I really wish there were some way to unlock dramatic mode battles for any team. Some of the 5-star stages have unique challenges, like hyper Tadakatsu. |
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| Mr.Honda | Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:55 pm Post #19 |
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Ugh ... but Wu-8 is the Battle of Chi Bi (aka the bullet-time slowdown stage)
That would make for some interesting videos
Doesn't one Dramatic Mode stage pit you against both Lu Bu AND Honda Tadakatsu? (Zhao Yun was in it I think) I don't have any idea how many stars it is though But yea, too bad though that you can't take any team into those stages.So there is no single Story/Free mode stage that has a WO Bai Di Castle DD-Lu Bu equivalent? Not even Shin Orochi? That's a disappointment. I was hoping he'd be uber-tough to defeat. I guess that explains all the OHKO videos on him :mellow: |
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| Rydain | Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:13 pm Post #20 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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Shin Orochi has naturally high defense, so he may very well be comparable to DD Lu Bu. It's just that some characters have really overpowered charges. For instance, Musashi could KO DD Lu Bu in a single charge attack, and he hasn't changed in WO2. Cao Pi's C6-ex is similarly overpowered, though it requires Bolt collateral damage for maximum strength. Other characters take a lot longer because they don't have any uber charge or quick combo. The C1 and C2 element nerf took away a good deal of efficient officer-defeating combos. Zhen Ji used to assassinate high defense boss critters with C2 > C4, but now she has to repeatedly C4. It still hurts a lot, but it sends the target flying far away. Also, note that many of those OHKO videos involve a Rage weapon and red health, or they require glitching that might not be consistent (e.g. Kenshin's magic C8 juggle). calbee talked about doing max damage vs. DD Lu Bu videos with Rage weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if we'd see a similar variety of OHKO's as a result. |
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| Mr.Honda | Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:37 pm Post #21 |
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I noticed that in the latest compilation video. Most of them were 2x attack strength because of Rage. I tried going back to watch the Kenshin video since to me, didn't seem to be a glitch. Sadly, the video was removed by the user and I don't remember exactly how it went as far as the number of enemies nearby, whether or not he trapped Shin Orochi against the wall, etc. I only remember R1 > C8 = KO Oh well.
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| Rydain | Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:52 pm Post #22 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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I referred to monstrous Kenshin C8 damage as glitchy because people have trouble repeating it. Therefore, it may be more of a random occurrence than something that can be mastered to consistently do that sort of damage. Another example of this - a video calbee made in which Nobunaga very quickly took down DD Lu Bu with some funky use of his R1 special. We haven't figured out whether or not this is consistently repeatable. Yue Ying's R1 is similar. There's video of her OHKO'ing Shin Orochi with it, but it is unknown whether the special can be mastered to do this type of damage every single time. Neither Kenshin's C8 nor Yue Ying's R1 were used as wall traps in the Shin Orochi videos I saw. |
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| Mr.Honda | Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:11 pm Post #23 |
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Ahh ok, it probably was the same one I saw too
Interesting about the Nobunaga R1 glitch ... it wouldn't perhaps be R1 > C2 > C4 would it? That's my favorite combo with him. If the R1, once turned into the flat rotating disk, manages to catch and juggle the enemy officers, run right up to them and, while they are still in mid-air and trapped by the disk, I use a C4 and I usually get it to "glitch" and rack up the hits. Obviously, running straight into a crowd isn't exactly the best idea on Chaos and it can be an inconsistent way of offense since it is dependent on whether or not they get trapped in the rotating disk at the right time. EDIT: Nevermind, I looked up the video. Interesting, he used a C3 after the R1 > C2 and it accomplished the same thing. Maybe I am reading it wrong ... C3 or C3ex? |
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| Tae Seong Kim | Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:26 am Post #24 |
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Tiger General
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For Yue Ying's R1 special glitch, you can repeat it pretty easily. Though it is easy to use, I do not think it really gives her a large advantage since it does take quite a lot of bar to use the thing. The Kenshin one does vary though. It sometimes does a full life fatal KO, or sometimes it may just hit a few times. But one thing is for sure, it is a very good move that does a lot of damage even if you do not hit the sweet spot. His R1 buff up special is great, adding attack x 2 and reach. I would put Kenshin pretty high up if tenbu is not considered, along with Nobunaga, Yukimura, Kunoichi, Ranmaru, Honda, Musashi, Kojiro, Katsuie, Xiahou Yuan, Cao Ren, Lu Meng, Lu Bu, Da Ji, and Fu Xi. |
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| Ultimate Legend | Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:03 am Post #25 |
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Keeping it Cool.
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Couldn't he just double jump since he's a speed type. |
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That would make for some interesting videos


3:43 PM Jul 11