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| Alright, so why does Gamespot hate Koei? | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 14 2008, 08:51 AM (342 Views) | |
| Yosei | Aug 14 2008, 08:51 AM Post #1 |
Joan of Arc's guardian and mentor
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Warning: possible rant. Sometimes you get a console just so you can play specific games. That was me with Koei games. After my graduation, celebration was in order, so I bought my very first console: an XBOX360, just to play DW6, and by chance the back of the instruction booklet had two random knight dudes clanging swords with "Bladestorm". I was curious, and a week or two afterwards I found the game at $20 AUD discount at my local video games store. Sure, I've only got one game on the shelf, and I want to support any new things Koei does (I was wary of being a 'mercenary' though). Now I look back and think I bought the XBOX360 just so I could play DW6 AND Bladestorm. Now I don't really read many game reviews, and how I manage to keep up with new games is by my friends talking about it. Even my discovery of Bladestorm as mentioned was by chance. But I am aware of certain sites like Gamespot which as far as I know is one of the big game sites. I'm not sure if this represents the majority of the gaming community, since it's been a long time since I joined one like this forum, but I have two questions: So why does Gamespot pretty much hate all of Koei's so-called 'repetitive' games, when I read their other reviews for Madden, Fifa, Halo, and other shooters? I personally can't stand sports games; I'd rather go PLAY the sport than sit at home playing a simulation of it. Shooters are the pinnacle of repetitive, in fact, you are skilled if you are able to be more repetitive in certain input actions than other players (that and remembering where all the ammo items are on the map, at least in Halo)! So Gamespot hates DW6, slap on a 6.0 for it. Then they get to Bladestorm, and boy, is the score low. They say Bladestorm, in essence, really doesn't doesn't offer anything new. I've lost memory of the exact complaints that they had, but a lot of their complaints don't hold water UNLESS: 1. They aren't interested in a dramatized 100 Year's War. 2. They don't like the concept of mercenaries, a central theme of Bladestorm. 3. They played one or two levels and skipped all the cutscenes and dialogue, assuming it wouldn't be important towards the overall progression of the game. Very discouraging. As far as I'm concerned, Bladestorm has brought Koei to Europe, in the sense now the company has covered three major powers: Japan with SW, China with DW, and now Europe with BS. If only people had looked beyond Koei's usual game style and given Bladestorm a chance! Someone said that a lot of reviewers just looked at the "Koei" logo on the box and said, "Yup, it's either: DW with white people or a dull strategy game since all they're good at are hack and slash games anyway." The first comment was actually made by one of my housemates when he was watching me fighting with my greatsword squad, and at that time I just laughed, but that was because I wasn't aware of how big the problem was, especially with major game reviewers. Am I imagining this? Because it seems there seems to be some really stupid reviews for this great game outside the insider (Koei) circle. P.S. Now, imagine a crossover game like Warriors Orochi where Joan of Arc fights alongside Liu Bei or Miyamoto Musashi? Or the Kingdom of Wei and Kingdom of England combine forces to invade France and Japan?? Lol! That would be epic! |
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| LittleDragonZ | Aug 14 2008, 09:14 AM Post #2 |
Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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All the reviews tend to make snarky comments about how Koei just solely is holding in the market because of the fanboys not getting the hint. But, that's somewhat to be true. I believe one even mentioned that Koei would crumble if we stopped buying them for a moment or two. What they probably don't know and just can't be bothered to find out, is that Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors are much bigger crazes in Japan, then here in the EU or the US. I guess this could central around the target audience more than we expect. For instance Famitsu and other Japanese articles always praise these enjoyable types of games, even if they don't add much after each new release. Whereas in the US, EA are huge and probably the biggest gaming company in the world which is why the games like Madden always sell well, and at the end of the day its what matters to them and its what that audience wants to hear or play. This is just my opinion anyway. |
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| God-Like Phoenix | Aug 14 2008, 10:12 AM Post #3 |
Mercenary General
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ha, this issue is brought up pretty much everytime a new Koei game is released...some of them i can understand...but this one i cannot. Im sure its what both of you guys said...they see the Koei label, and they instantly think of the DW/SW games and they just assume that Bladestorm would be just the same with a different setting <_< I wouldnt be surprised if some of the reviewers have never even played Bladestorm...and just used assumed knowledge from the other Koei games, because if they say that this game brings nothnig new to the company's usual style of games...boy are they wrong something bad...i doubt ive seen any other game like it to be honest. |
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| Fayt | Aug 14 2008, 12:52 PM Post #4 |
Sakon, has left the topic.
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Sadly it's just inevitable, if you don't like a game company and you are from a big game reviewing mob you are going to tear them to pieces at every opportunity. I look to Square-Enix and see it happen in a complete opposite fashion, it's absurd how highly so many of their games get rated, and it's just because of the name Square-Enix attached to it. It makes you wonder if a game like Bladestorm had a Square-Enix logo on it how differently it would get reviewed... From another perspective, poor reviews like you have referred to Yosei attract even more readers then positive reviews. If it was a decent, fair review only those that are really interested will talk about it. But bashing reviews tend to attract a larger audience, so from their perspective they are getting more readers as a result. We need to remember they are not fans, they are a business. With some of those naive reviewers, I just say f*** them. I find far more value in reading a bunch of positive, and negative reviews by fans themselves, we fans put far more time into these games to see it's strengths, and weaknesses far more then one that is paid to play a game for a while and write a review on it. Nice post there btw Yosei. 
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| Ruka | Aug 14 2008, 01:12 PM Post #5 |
Kiri no Shugosha
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Thats sadly right Fayt, nowadays most people buy games because they are KOEI, Square Enix, Capcom produced games! You could pick the worst game ever give them a good company game, and im sure the game will be a HIT! Not forgeting KOEI is also one of those! I never really get the point of creating an XL version, they could create a DW6 version for example, test it, play it and see what could more fit in a game then release a few months later. Same applies to Square Enix and Others great companies...some people think thats an opportunity to make more money... I personally don't bother too much on the company name, im a DW/SW/WO fan and im sure to get all the games i can from that, but i don't like DW Gundam and im sure i will never brought that game, even if i find it at a half price on a used gamestore. Most people buy Square Enix titles because they like FF and well they don't realize that Square Enix is not only a RPG creator. |
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| Yosei | Aug 14 2008, 01:19 PM Post #6 |
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Joan of Arc's guardian and mentor
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Thanks guys for your opinions.
I will never play a game at all unless it's for fun. We all know how cynical some people be once money is involved. This goes with all professions. The problem is the modern mass media is probably the most effective mode of distributing opinions and ideas - whether they are valid or simply pulled out of shaky premises. As we already know, negative ideas are easier to circulate because they don't take as much thinking to adopt, so when a "professional" game reviewer spits venom about Koei, we need at least double the positive game reviews to counter it! 
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| Muffin Vacation | Aug 14 2008, 02:19 PM Post #7 |
Officer
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I have to say that I think the majority of comments reviewers such as Gamespot made are completely valid; of course the likes of DW and SW are repetitive and it's a trend that seems to exist in a lot of Koei games; but it's certainly not just Koei that's like this. Like you pointed out yourself there are plenty more repetitive games out there that do seem to get away with it. For one I really don't like the Halo games, is it because it's repetitive? No. Is it because I'm rubbish at them? Possibly; but it's more likely down to the fact that the gameplay just...well simply put it doesn't interest me. I can't say I don't like FPS shooters because Call of Duty 4 is one of my favourite games of all time as is pretty much everything included in the Orange Box. Another of my favourite games is Pro Evolution Soccer, yet I'm not a fan of the Fifa series at all. PES is guilty of the same things DW is in terms or repetition and not really prgressing a great deal fromg ame to game, yet PES finds itself scoring highly year after year with the reviewers, why? Well to be perfectly honest from what I can see there is simply a matter of tastes, yes I know it's not the greatest point in the world to make but when you boil down to it that's simply seems to me what it comes down to. When I was at school at DW3 was out we played it on the last day of term on a big proejector screen (fairly epic actually as you can imagine as the characters were actually a pretty accurate size!) and the room had about thirty people in it, only me and one other person had played the game before yet the other people were playing the game for hours and hours. They certainly didn't get bored of complain of repetition, in fact a few of the people actually went out and bought the game the very next day. Would a similar thing happen with the likes of CoD or PES? Dunno, probably in some cases yes; that's what ahppened with me and CoD4 (well ti will once I get enought moeny for it anyway...). Other than that I guess reviewers have to think of just how "hardcore" of a gamer the person readint he review is. Sports gamesa re easy to pick up, play for 10 minutes then not have to worry about anything until you next fancy another quick 10 minute stint. A lot of Koei games, however, require players to put in a lot of hours to really feel like they've acheived anything; maxing out all characters in any of the Warriro games sure does take a long time and playing 10 minutes here and there isn't really going to do very much. If you don't play Koei games for an extended period you simply don't get the full potential out of them, fact; and can everybody be bothered putting in their time for such games? Definitely not. I suppose that's a major factor in what these reviewers are looking at too, how fun is a game and the unlockables etc until the fun actually turns into a chore? I know that I've certainly felt like that at times when maxing out the likes of Xu Zhu in DW... I don't really know what else there is but I reckon that covers a fair amount of just why Koei games do score badly, even if it can seem unfair at some times. To be honest I don't take much notice of reviews any for reasons such as this, I'd much ratehr try a game out in person ratehr than listen to what some "expert" has to say on it before I make my mind up about a game. Phew, did I ask a lot of questions in that post only to answer them in the next sentence? Yes. |
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| Crimsondramon | Aug 14 2008, 02:35 PM Post #8 |
Ujiyasu is not impressed
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Just wanna touch on what Muffin said. He's right. It's better for us to try the game out in person rather to read a review. After all, you are the one playing no? And reviews are opinions of an other person, not yours. His tastes, yours,mine, everyone elses are different. So just take a review as someone elses opinions of the game and let it not affect you in buying it. :lol: |
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| LittleDragonZ | Aug 14 2008, 09:21 PM Post #9 |
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Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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To be honest, I don't take them into consideration anyway, and I'm sure many here don't either. I do with games outside of Koei, but not these gems. Besides, the only time I would go about and do what a review said would be if it got praise and I had already heard or viewed so many complaints. And yes, Muffin Vacation is correct about how much time they spend on these games, and how important it's to dwelve into any of the Warriors series. But I wouldn't personally say that its the same with Bladestorm since its not just, as good as it could be, at the end, but is good in all stages despite obviously you lacking experience points and all that. What I mean is that the enjoyment level does probably start off a bit better because it doesn't change that much gameplay-wise throughout the game except for the units you can control. Not as much as maxing a character (all being unique), getting stages and items, like in WO for instance. Though this opinion could waver and waver from person to person. It's just one of my views after all. |
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| God-Like Phoenix | Aug 14 2008, 11:52 PM Post #10 |
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Mercenary General
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Yep, yep, thats right on...about the personal opinion thing...the reviews may be prefessionals...or experts, but theyre also people...and they have personal likes, dislikes, attention span( :lol: ) and so on...so if they dont like a game...its most likely their problem, not the games...so i guess it shouldnt turn you away from any games
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| Xtreme Legend Rossy | Aug 15 2008, 12:00 AM Post #11 |
Commander of the Hawk's Raiders
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yah i never pay much attention to gamespot when it comes to DW and other warriors titles, it does annoy me in a way tho the way they go about slaggin it wouldnt do much for someone who has never played the game and reads their reviews! they need to judge each game on its own merits coz alot of games reuse alot of the same things in later instalments, look at MGS2, as much as i LOVED that game it was virtually a remake of MGS with most of the things they had in there being recycled ( i wont get into that here tho) ! and GS gave that a 10! i cant work that out! |
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| Mitsurugi_Hitsen | Aug 15 2008, 09:16 AM Post #12 |
In the name of the Empire!
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I just wanted to point out that someone said that it is the fanboys who keep Koei's doors open. Well, what do you think keeps anything open? It is the fans? No one is buying Madden because they are required. They buy it because they are football fans. But I agree that it is disturbing that a Madden game will get a 9/10 or 5 stars every year with nothing more than new new characters and a fresh paint job, but when Koei does it, they get low ratings. It could be the fact that the average person has no interest in the history of anything. It could be that football is treated like a religion in America. It could be just about anything. I prefer to just ignore it. Now, I am not suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable for any company to mass produce 'new' games every year. No company should be allowed to shell out the same crap, be it movie, book, or video game, and get praised for it. All I am saying, when people give out poo, the poo should be shared with all. |
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| Yosei | Aug 15 2008, 09:30 AM Post #13 |
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Joan of Arc's guardian and mentor
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I've never been to America before, but I'm not sure how big the Koei fanbase is over there. I appreciate historical backdrops like the Three Kingdoms, Hundred Year's War, anything really, although I got into Koei because I was curious to see the Three Kingdoms remix, I don't really mind what the backdrop is as long as there's some dramatized history. But yeah it seems that the opposite thing - a dramatized future like Halo - is more appreciated in America. |
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