Cao Cao's Pronunciation

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Cao Cao's Pronunciation; How do you say it?
Topic Started: Aug 23 2008, 04:22 PM (1,530 Views)
waiman	Dec 14 2008, 08:15 AM Post #51
Eat You Up!!!! Posts: 237 Group: Members Member #11,547 Joined: December 3, 2007 Gender Female	Manji Dec 14 2008, 07:49 AM Ha. I'm learning Chinese (just took my 101 exam the other day) and I still can't bring myself to say the names properly. I've just spent so many years saying the names a certain way I can't break the habit. Plus, any other DW fan could look at you funny for saying "Szoo-ma Ee" (Sima Yi). Chinese is hard language to describe phonetically, btw... But T'sao T'sao I say correctly, 'cause COW COW and COW PI are just plain ridiculous. I do agree with you, Manji. Luckily I am a born Chinese and I can understand all Chinese words. But to a foreigner who don't know Chinese culture, it's very hard to learn Chinese language. Cuz every word has its meaning, and a lot of 'stroke" to write a Chinese word since they have meanings, too... I should say, learning Mandarin is a lot easier than Cantonese. (too many slang.....) Fayt Dec 14 2008, 08:14 AM Originally I pronounced it as "Cow Cow" as that's how it was way back in Kessen II. I didn't know a whole lot about the Three Kingdoms those many years ago either so didn't know any better. Although, after reading the novel (C.H. Brewitt-Taylor version) I now say it as Ts'ao Ts'ao. The same as what is now been used in the more recent KOEI games, such as the Warriors Orochi series and Dynasty Warriors 6. I have a funny idea to record my voice in pronouncing all characters' name then post here~ Edited by Manji, Dec 14 2008, 08:45 AM.
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Kasumi	Dec 14 2008, 08:30 AM Post #52
~Freyjadour Falenas~ Posts: 443 Group: Members Member #14,558 Joined: April 7, 2008 Gender Female	Something that makes me woner, why Tsao Tsao and Cow Cow, not Chow Chow/Chao Chao?As far as I know, T'sao T'sao is his Wade-Giles pronunciation, and since we're sticking with the Mandarin/Pin yin pronounciation...shouldn't it be Chao Chao instead (since c in mandarin is read as ch)?
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faichaim0nd	Dec 14 2008, 08:57 PM Post #53
just an ordinary passer-by.... Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #19,838 Joined: December 4, 2008	Kasumi Dec 14 2008, 08:30 AM Something that makes me woner, why Tsao Tsao and Cow Cow, not Chow Chow/Chao Chao?As far as I know, T'sao T'sao is his Wade-Giles pronunciation, and since we're sticking with the Mandarin/Pin yin pronounciation...shouldn't it be Chao Chao instead (since c in mandarin is read as ch)? 'c' is not pronounced 'ch' in mandarin when saying 'c', your tongue should be straight when saying 'ch', you will have to bend your tongue backwards noticed the difference?
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Kasumi	Dec 15 2008, 03:23 PM Post #54
~Freyjadour Falenas~ Posts: 443 Group: Members Member #14,558 Joined: April 7, 2008 Gender Female	But when you read words in Pin Yin such Cao, Cuo, etc, you still have the 'Tsch' pronunciation, instead of converting it to Ts/S right? http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/officers/Cao-Cao (my hearing may be wrong though, but for me it sounded like Tschao Tschao) (But thanks for the reminder. I'm still learning Chinese as well ) Edited by Kasumi, Dec 15 2008, 03:23 PM.
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faichaim0nd	Dec 16 2008, 11:24 AM Post #55
just an ordinary passer-by.... Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #19,838 Joined: December 4, 2008	Kasumi Dec 15 2008, 03:23 PM But when you read words in Pin Yin such Cao, Cuo, etc, you still have the 'Tsch' pronunciation, instead of converting it to Ts/S right? http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/officers/Cao-Cao (my hearing may be wrong though, but for me it sounded like Tschao Tschao) (But thanks for the reminder. I'm still learning Chinese as well ) if u read it correctly, it doesnt have 'tsch' pronunciation....its a clear 'ts'... good luck learning~~~
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Kasumi	Dec 16 2008, 12:15 PM Post #56
~Freyjadour Falenas~ Posts: 443 Group: Members Member #14,558 Joined: April 7, 2008 Gender Female	No, I mean, try to listen to the sound clip - it's how Cao Cao is pronounced. The T'sao T'sao one is the Wade-Giles pronounciation...
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Silver Sun	Dec 16 2008, 01:09 PM Post #57
Lord Nagamasa, you're my hero! Posts: 359 Group: Members Member #2,700 Joined: July 22, 2006	I like the Cow Cow, especially when Soon Kwarn says it. But once I heard WO, I say it the way I learnt it Tsao Tsao. I'm lucky I was born Chinese, so I know how to say them (go Cantonese). I say it like this: Cao Cao- Tsao Tsao (Cho Cho in Cantonese) Sun Quan- Swern Chwan (say the Swern fast) Zhuge Liang- Jhu-Ger Liarng But there are variations especially in the context, like English has its high and low sounds for quesitons and stuff. Like Zhuge Liang's Liang can make it sound Leearrnng or Lierng when speaking in sentences.
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faichaim0nd	Dec 16 2008, 01:22 PM Post #58
just an ordinary passer-by.... Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #19,838 Joined: December 4, 2008	yup..the voice clip...thr arent any 'ch' in it....its a clear 'c'.... lolz nvm...step by step u will slowly understand...for now...continue perfecting your mandarin...n good luck
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Zero Kuran	Dec 17 2008, 04:14 AM Post #59
SS501 Obessed Fangirl Posts: 507 Group: Members Member #16,218 Joined: June 19, 2008	Tsao Tsao is correct for mandarin but in cantonese its pronunced cho cho. Edited by Zero Kuran, Dec 17 2008, 04:15 AM.
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Kasumi	Dec 18 2008, 07:26 AM Post #60
~Freyjadour Falenas~ Posts: 443 Group: Members Member #14,558 Joined: April 7, 2008 Gender Female	0_0 Cho Cho is Cantonese? I've had a blurry idea how to differentiate Cantonese with Mandarin, but I guess I'll stick with Cho Cho In Khe pronounciation, they spell Cao Cao as Cocoh.
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ShinUsagi87	Dec 18 2008, 07:36 AM Post #61
Officer Posts: 60 Group: Members Member #7,691 Joined: June 1, 2007	I still think they should've went for the Cantonese pronunciations of the names. But with English VAs, it might sound cheesy unless they're fluent in the dialect. Like my dad would say, "Their "Chinese" would sound like they're from Minnesota." But from what I've gathered through some research, the Cantonese pronunciations of some of the names would be: Cao Cao - 'Chou Chou' Cao Pi - 'Chou Pei' Cao Ren - 'Chou Yan' Xu Chu - 'Heui Chyu' Dian Wei - 'Din Wai' Xu Huang - 'Cheui Fong' Source: http://kongming.net Notice the difference from the two dialects. I would've thought the "Huang" in Xu Huang's name would be the same as my surname but it isn't. But as per the Mandarin pronunciation, it seems on par (I believe it's pronounced the exact same way in Red Cliff) Edited by ShinUsagi87, Dec 18 2008, 07:48 AM.
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faichaim0nd	Dec 19 2008, 10:45 AM Post #62
just an ordinary passer-by.... Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #19,838 Joined: December 4, 2008	do u knw hw 2 speak cantonese?
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Kasumi	Dec 20 2008, 04:02 AM Post #63
~Freyjadour Falenas~ Posts: 443 Group: Members Member #14,558 Joined: April 7, 2008 Gender Female	ShinUsagi87 : I agree with you, if they use the Cantonese one, they will really need to be fluent on it, otherwise it won't make sense. Since if you can read it correctly, actually it's not that different with the initial pronunciation.
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Zero Kuran	Jan 5 2009, 04:31 AM Post #64
SS501 Obessed Fangirl Posts: 507 Group: Members Member #16,218 Joined: June 19, 2008	I can speak cantonese, that's how im supposed to communicate with my family, otherwise they won't know what im saying most of the time if i speak english. I can't read most of the chinese though, I know how to read some but not all. Wish i could though.
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Frankenchrist	Mar 3 2009, 04:11 PM Post #65
Soldier Posts: 12 Group: Members Member #21,036 Joined: March 3, 2009	It's Tsao Tsao, end of discussion.
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Celestial	Mar 3 2009, 06:48 PM Post #66
Glad to meet you. Lord Liu Bei. Posts: 472 Group: Members Member #18,905 Joined: October 9, 2008	Wenze Aug 23 2008, 11:03 PM I respect your opinion, but I just don't see why they should continue to do something incorrectly that they could be doing right. They know how the names sound, as proven by RotK XI's correct pronunciations, but are just too stubborn to fix them in DW. And, just in case anyone is interested, Kongming's Archives has sound clips of the pronunciations of some of the more famous officers: http://kongming.net/encyclopedia/pronunciation Thank you! I always wondered how some of these names were pronunced.
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Bamboo	Mar 3 2009, 07:03 PM Post #67
Smashtastic. Posts: 165 Group: Members Member #17,967 Joined: September 1, 2008 Gender Male	ShinUsagi87 Dec 18 2008, 07:36 AM I still think they should've went for the Cantonese pronunciations of the names. But with English VAs, it might sound cheesy unless they're fluent in the dialect. Agreed, though I would definitely like the actual pronunciations to be used in the games. I use "Tsao Tsao", as it's accurate, and it sounds much better than "Cow Cow".
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kuni_izumi	Mar 3 2009, 08:05 PM Post #68
Breaker of Destined Fate Posts: 592 Group: Members Member #12,299 Joined: December 30, 2007	XD My mother studied Mandarin Chinese in the army, and has been complaining about the bad pronunciation forever. Not that's she's been able to teach me the correct way. I wish Koei would enforce that names be pronounced PROPERLY. It's like a whole bunch of people telling my my Celtic heritage (Kel-tic) is pronounced Sell-tic because of a SPORTS TEAM.
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Manji	Mar 4 2009, 03:54 AM Post #69
delicious... Posts: 2,329 Group: Global Moderators Member #9,417 Joined: August 28, 2007 Gender Female	kuni_izumi Mar 3 2009, 08:05 PM XD My mother studied Mandarin Chinese in the army, and has been complaining about the bad pronunciation forever. I've been taking Chinese for nearly two semesters now at college level and still say CAO CAO whenever I read his name. Old habits die hard... Whenever I say it aloud though, I usually remember to say T'sao T'sao... unless I want to be intentionally silly. It's not like Cao Cao is the only name in DW that's butchered... I still say "See-ma Yee", even though it's much closer to "Szu-ma Ee" (I believe). Chinese is just complicated to translate phonetically into something an English speaker can recognize. You'd have to learn the basic pinyin (Chinese characters spelled using the Roman alphabet) pronunciations to get the basic idea of correct pronunciations. Plus there are the 4 different tones to consider as well, which are not included in the English spelling of the character's names in DW. If anyone's curious... Pinyin pronunciation: http://www.fortune-cookie-500.com/Pinyin.html Listen to tones: http://www.newconceptmandarin.com/support/Intro_Pinyin.asp Edited by Manji, Mar 4 2009, 03:55 AM.
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kuni_izumi	Mar 4 2009, 04:48 AM Post #70
Breaker of Destined Fate Posts: 592 Group: Members Member #12,299 Joined: December 30, 2007	O_o yeah tones are a huge deal. It's the difference between being understood and sounding batshit crazy if you're not careful. XD Which always made me wonder...what if someone Chinese is born tone-deaf? Can this still communicate, or does the constant immersion train their ear/tone? But that's totally off topic. Anyways, I say for Koei it's NEVER TOO LATE to correct yourself! As they've show by changing the way they say Cao Cao. Keep fixing!
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Hares999	Mar 4 2009, 05:24 AM Post #71
GOD OF WAR Posts: 356 Group: Members Member #11,791 Joined: December 11, 2007 Gender Male	Although most people pronounce "Cow Cow" the correct is "Tsao Tsao". I also believe many people don't know about this.
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yezhanquan	Mar 5 2009, 04:06 AM Post #72
First Lieutenant Posts: 166 Group: Members Member #18,265 Joined: September 13, 2008	Since I play the Japanese version, "Sou Sou" is used over there.



Hyota	Mar 7 2009, 09:13 PM Post #73
Sergeant Posts: 18 Group: Members Member #21,085 Joined: March 5, 2009 Gender Male	I said "Cow Cow" since DW6 and when a friend of mine who's learning chinese -because of DW- I now always say 'Tsao Tsao'



Beautiful Thief	Mar 30 2009, 01:40 AM Post #74
got to be good lookin' cuz he's so hard to see... Posts: 1,189 Group: Members Member #93 Joined: October 13, 2005 Gender Female	I started calling him 'Tsao Tsao' after playing WO.... but yes, originally I called him Cao Cao.
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Frent	Mar 31 2009, 01:37 AM Post #75
Sergeant Posts: 26 Group: Members Member #21,492 Joined: March 31, 2009 Gender Male	I called him "Cow Cow" for quite a long time until I heard about "Tsao Tsao." Now I call him that -- though occasionally the games make me lapse.



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