MasterofMusou

Nov 13 2008, 09:34 PM

Make Magoichi happier?

Couldn't hurt.

Mr.Honda

Nov 13 2008, 10:00 PM

MasterofMusou

Nov 13 2008, 09:34 PM

Make Magoichi happier?

Couldn't hurt.

Then cut Gracia ... it would be a start

No more "Mago! Mago?"

I think the obsessing over certain things should be removed for the characters that have them:

Hanzo (shadows & darkness), Kotaro (chaos), Ieyasu (patience & endurance), etc.

Jiang Lu

Nov 14 2008, 12:05 AM

Bah. Kotaro is a cool guy. He does things for chaos, which is the old time way of saying "I did it for the lulz." Plus he and Nobunaga have a tendency to always get the last word in conversations with other characters. Total win for them.

Now on to who I hate:
The justice obsessed neurotics (Kanetsugu and Nagamasa.) I say to them, "why so serious?"

MasterofMusou

Nov 13 2008, 11:52 PM

Mr.Honda

Nov 13 2008, 10:00 PM

MasterofMusou

Nov 13 2008, 09:34 PM

Make Magoichi happier?

Couldn't hurt.

Then cut Gracia ... it would be a start

No more "Mago! Mago?"

I think the obsessing over certain things should be removed for the characters that have them:

Hanzo (shadows & darkness), Kotaro (chaos), Ieyasu (patience & endurance), etc.

I'm going to quote Hideyoshi here:

Mr. Honda I do admit still have trouble telling your sincerity from your
sarcasm.

Jiang Lu

Nov 14 2008, 12:05 AM

Bah. Kotaro is a cool guy. He does things for chaos, which is the old time way of saying "I did it for the lulz." Plus he and Nobunaga have a tendency to always get the last word in conversations with other characters. Total win for them.

Now on to who I hate:
The justice obsessed neurotics (Kanetsugu and Nagamasa.) I say to them, "why so serious?"

Brizz

Nov 6 2008, 12:42 AM

I, like some people, hate Oichi in SW2 as opposed to SW1. Sure you can let fate take you so far, but for her to just leave without even a decent fight besides "you know Nagamasa you don't have to die..." and try to protect the people that she loves makes absoloutely no sense to me. I think they just tried to make her into a tragic herione and it turned out completely the wrong way, granted the last cutscene was sad but still...

Hobgoblyn

Nov 15 2008, 05:58 AM

Brizz

Nov 6 2008, 12:42 AM

I, like some people, hate Oichi in SW2 as opposed to SW1. Sure you can let fate take you so far, but for her to just leave without even a decent fight besides "you know Nagamasa you don't have to die..." and try to protect the people that she loves makes absoloutely no sense to me. I think they just tried to make her into a tragic herione and it turned out completely the wrong way, granted the last cutscene was sad but still...

I think a lot of people don't like Oichi's cut scene because they don't have any cultural perspective or understanding of sengoku-period samurai dynamics and cultural restraints.

I mean, if you expect all characters to act like douchebag Americans who flip off honor and duty, do whatever the hell they feel like whenever they want and take pride in defying authority, then.. yes, it makes no sense.

However, within the context that the game stories are supposed to reflect Samurai dramas, then it is the best story I've seen out of all the of the stories in Samurai Warriors 2.

The marriage was a political marriage, but that didn't mean Oichi didn't like Nagamasa. Of course, they both knew (Oichi to a further extent) that the ENTIRE purpose of the marriage was Nobunaga manipulating Nagamasa into turning him against his ally. Line this up against all the other detestable things that Nobunaga does and consider that once married to a non-Oda retainer Oichi is no longer part of the Oda family except in the most tenable form, shape or form and one can understand why she wouldn't particularly be very protective of Nobunaga.

However, regardless of the corrupt politics behind the marriage, Nagamasa still found himself put in the position of either moving against the Oda and thus minorly dishonoring himself by attacking a "brother" and causing Oichi pain in the process or giving into this shady trick and totally dishonoring himself by choosing not to protect his friend. Even though it was clearly Nobunaga who was breaking his word and in the wrong, no matter what choice Nagamasa made he was in the wrong.

However, there was also little reason to believe that the Azai could overcome the Oda (which is, unfortunately, disguised due to the fact that you 'win' all the battles) and so Nagamasa ordered Oichi to return to the Oda. As wives had no power to disobey their husbands, she really wouldn't be in a cultural position to disobey this order even though she wanted to. Furthermore, she wasn't in a cultural position to disobey Nobunaga's order to lead the attack-- Samurai tend to protest their orders by carrying them out and THEN committing suicide (and even for that they need permission).

Certainly this "fate" could be avoided, but only by disobeying codes of conduct which, to those who had been brought up within a society that holds them to the highest regard, would be like violating some law that to them would be as bad as if you had a modern-era story today where one can save themselves, but only by killing a child on the street in open daylight.

Now, granted, the portrayal of Oichi as a proper samurai wife bound by honor and duty is incongruant with her bratty loli characterization in the previous game, but this could perhaps be dismissed as her maturing. It is also possible that given the details of the story they had to work with, her role in this story worked better to tell the story than her previous characterization would allow. This new characterization is closer to what the real person's acts would lead you to believe her personality was like while the previous one was just because they wanted a bratty loli to appeal to otaku audiences and chose to make that character Oichi because her role in that story didn't require any attention to her historic actions or fate.

Certainly it was better than Nagamasa's version where he takes down the Oda army then breaks the third wall by uniting with the unique characters against the generic one to kill his best friend thus claiming to maintain his honor (in what screwy, backwards way his actions could possibly be considered honorable, I have no idea). That was just such an overtly stupid resolution to the story that I simply cannot imagine what they were thinking.

DeeEmm

Nov 15 2008, 10:48 AM

...but in SW1 Oichi was both boring AND annoying. I don't get the appeal - her SW2 characterization is much better (basically, Hobgoblyn's post).

DeeEmm

Nov 15 2008, 10:48 AM

...but in SW1 Oichi was both boring AND annoying. I don't get the appeal - her SW2 characterization is much better (basically, Hobgoblyn's post).

Eni

Nov 16 2008, 06:17 AM

Suddenly, foomin's post reminds me of Noh/Oichi cutscene at Anegawa.

But i really think Mago's Story was better in SW2, but thats just me...

I hope Koei just mixes her current personality with a little of SW1

ChibiGingi

Nov 16 2008, 06:29 AM

Eni

Nov 16 2008, 06:17 AM

Suddenly, foomin's post reminds me of Noh/Oichi cutscene at Anegawa.

But i really think Mago's Story was better in SW2, but thats just me...

I hope Koei just mixes her current personality with a little of SW1

Overall, Mago's story was better in SW2. It did give him more dimension, but really he just came off as being too much of a drama llama. Maybe just a little bit less wangst and more interaction with Masamune if they keep their (sudden) friendship, and I'd be happy. Heck, throw in a more tolerable Gracia and we got ourselves a THREESOME!

foomin

Nov 16 2008, 06:36 AM

ChibiGingi

Nov 16 2008, 06:29 AM

Eni

Nov 16 2008, 06:17 AM

Suddenly, foomin's post reminds me of Noh/Oichi cutscene at Anegawa.

But i really think Mago's Story was better in SW2, but thats just me...

I hope Koei just mixes her current personality with a little of SW1

Overall, Mago's story was better in SW2. It did give him more dimension, but really he just came off as being too much of a drama llama. Maybe just a little bit less wangst and more interaction with Masamune if they keep their (sudden) friendship, and I'd be happy. Heck, throw in a more tolerable Gracia and we got ourselves a THREESOME!

gross. the fact that EVERYONE's refering to him as MAGO is SCARY. MAN, if i could just eliminate the first levels of Gracia's Musou and concentrate on last few, where she's tolerable(personality-wise) my life would be easier. i LOVE her, but i hate her U.S. personality. disgusting.

Quote:

 

the fact that EVERYONE's refering to him as MAGO is SCARY.

Eni

Nov 16 2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

 

the fact that EVERYONE's refering to him as MAGO is SCARY.

Huh, i just simplified his name, hows that scary? And since i dont have XL, no idea how "horrible or w/e" is Gracia's personality.

@ChibiGingi: Everybody knows that Mago's pairing is Okuni, who at the time has a weird triangle with Keiji and Goemon

Seraphil

Nov 16 2008, 07:20 AM

I personally love Gracia and her portrayal in SW2XL, so that's another angle to the whole deal, I suppose?

Then again, I like all the females in SW2. The only two I feel became weaker are No and Ina, for different reasons. No lost her story, and Ina lost an actual deep rivalry(Kunoichi. Yeah, surprise surprise, the one SW girl I don't like is involved in one of the things I liked about my favorite gal.) I'm not really up to calling her relation with Ginchiyo much of a rivalry.