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| KOEI Games Character Endings; Better, more realistic? Or fine the way they are? | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 5 2007, 09:59 PM (61 Views) | |
| LittleDragonZ | Jul 5 2007, 09:59 PM Post #1 |
Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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Well, its come to my attention now that I need to discuss this matter and see other peoples opinions on the current case. The simple question is; Are you satisfied with the majority of character endings thus far in any of the titles throughout both series? To me the sad endings seem to have more impact and are somewhat 'true.' Because to be honest with you I would rather see Zhang Fei die in his ending as well as Guan Yu instead of them living to fight another day. Bleh... The same with Xiahou Yuan's who has one of the corniest ending lines ever! I would rather see him die, nothing too yucky and gory, but something that tells us what really happened and has more of an impact without having the need of blood. Zhuge Liang's ending was very sad for the reason you see his weapon fall out of his hand and then with him kneeling to the ground whilst the screen stares away. It was very emotional, just like Diao Chan's ending and even maybe, Sun Shang Xiang's. Yukimura Sanada's lower path ending in SW1 is probably still the best I have ever seen! Great quotes, great body motion showing that Yukimura is completely exhausted and has just about had enough. Then the line comes from Ieyasu ~ ''Yukimura, You are Japans greatest hero!'' You then see the happiness burst out of him due to his smile, whilst he falls to the floor and becomes officially departed. Both mixed feelings there; happy and sad. Which could both be reasons why the ending is so highly praised? Discuss your preferences here! Do you like the sad endings or the happy ones? Or even the heroic ones such as Ma Chao's scene in DW5? |
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| Sanada | Jul 5 2007, 10:05 PM Post #2 |
The end has come.
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I hate most of the peaceful endings (without much happening) there are some exceptions, but like Zhao Yun's and Cao Ren's for example. They just aren't very good IMO. And, I don't like Ma Chao's ending either. It nothing about the fact of what its about, its just the way it happens. The sadder ending are ussually better. Especially the 1s that have action in them as well. the only example of that in SW/DW I can think of is Yukimura's SW1 ending. I sort of like Hanzo's as well though, even though Yukimura dies. Nobunaga's is also quite good IMO. Just the 1s where people die I guess >.< In DT2's I liked a lot, like where Lu Bu gets shot by the arrows, or where Cao Cao dies while fighting Sun ce, again its the same thing there. I don't know why I like them though >.< |
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| LittleDragonZ | Jul 5 2007, 10:08 PM Post #3 |
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Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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Yes, the more truthful the sadder endings the impact has, agreed? This is my point and the reason why I hope Koei do not ''make up'' the endings in the future. And stick to the sad truth. |
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| Sanada | Jul 5 2007, 10:13 PM Post #4 |
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The end has come.
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Not all of the endings would be sad anyway though. Zhao yun for example wouldn't die for a long time after his ending (I think). And then some of the characters (like Sun Jian) would have been long dead if it wasn't already fictional... |
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| LittleDragonZ | Jul 5 2007, 10:25 PM Post #5 |
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Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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You have a good point there. Though I feel they need to do it to the characters that I've listed and many others that I haven't listed. They need to, otherwise they are just going to look and feel silly and won't have any kind of effects on the fans, especially the fans who want the truth to show. |
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| san-shin warrior | Jul 7 2007, 05:57 AM Post #6 |
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General
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I think most of their ending were ok. |
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| Jiahe | Jul 7 2007, 02:21 PM Post #7 |
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The only ending that got my attention the most was Sun Shang Xiang's DW5 ending. Most of the other endings were okay. Nothing too sad or happy or even heroic, just in the middle. |
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| TinyCaterpillar | Jul 8 2007, 12:52 AM Post #8 |
Drifting Butterfly
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I thought the SW endings were all great, but yeah, Yukimura's was definitely the best.
 Some of SW2's endings were okay, while others were great. Magoichi was probably my favorite. (Another sad one. Actually almost made me cry.
 ) The DW5 ones were for the most part generic to me unfortunately. I mean, there were several 'looking at farmers and exchanging bows with them' endings and it just kinda got repetitive. :lol: At the same time though, I don't think they should go out of their way to make them all dramatic or in some cases, historically accurate. Some people just didn't have that dignified of deaths and people aren't going to want to play through every character only to have them die in the end.
Also, I think that it's the mediocre/average endings that make the really good ones stand out so much. Just my thoughts.
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| Will | Jul 8 2007, 01:16 AM Post #9 |
God of Death in Gundam Wing
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Huang Gai was sad... Sun Ce and Sun Jian died! How about Lu Bu dying in Diao Chan's ending? wasnt that sad? Zhuge Liang falling/Dying. Did he died? was very sad because he found the truth and Yue Ying wasnt next to him.... I was sad for Huang Zhong and I like Ma Chao taking on Cao pi and Sima Yi. SSX ending had me kind of sad too... I loveee Zhang He's. |
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| Hondam | Jul 8 2007, 01:20 AM Post #10 |
轟
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Not at all. I haven't played a true console DW yet, so I'll only comment on SW. Yeah, again, not at all. SW1 had some really great endings for the most part, probably because they were all fleshed out due to the much better story and stage system that was lost in SW2. The only ones I truly disliked was Kenshin's, because of how lackluster it was compared to some others. The best? Yukimura's, Mitsuhide's, Nobunaga's, and Hanzou's. SW2...really mixed feelings here. They went all out with some character interaction and storylines, thus making some really good/interesting ones, but in it's wake the majority of the characters got absolutely shafted. I'll just go over most of them- Yukimura: Yeah, okay. Interesting direction, KOEI, but why make your flagship SW character so...bleh? Don't make him him all crying and helpless and seeking some friendships to get him through the tough times. Give him a backbone for crying out loud. His ending wasterrible, for me. Why completely get rid of Yukimura's shining moment in the Sengoku era (hell, they only show ONE SMALL trace of it in MASAMUNE'S story. The hell, KOEI?)? Yukimura is SUPPOSED to be the case of the hero whose fate ultimately leads him to death.  Nobunaga: Meh. They sort of ruined his character in his ending. Yeah, he was supposed to be less of a bast'ard in the 2nd game, but don't make him cry over Mitsuhide's corpse. <_< Mitsuhide: Again, meh. Don't like what they did with him in game and his ending. Go back to something like his SW1 story/ending. Keiji: Got shafted in the second game. Made him too dependant on other characters, toned him down, etc. Kenshin & Shingen: Blah. Again, lame ending for Kenshin and a new lame one for Shingen. KOEI goes all out to make up interesting storyliens and character relations for a select few, then give people like Kenshin and Shingen the shaft. Oichi & Nagamasa: Coming form a guy who hates love/romace/whatever stories, I thought Nagamasa's and Oichi's endings/stories were done really well. One of the few good endings. Magoichi: I think Magocihi had the best story hands down in SW2, and he got a good ending. Yukimura's should've taken note. Masamune: So-so, sort of good. Hanzou: good ending cinematic, terrible story. No unique cutscenes or anything. Shafted. Tadakatsu: Shafted. Ieyasu: Pretty good. Mistunari: Again, interesting role and character relations, but then KOEI had to pull out the generic "I see it all now I have my friends yay for happiness" stuff. Mitsunari should've gotten something where he was getting executed after Sekigahara, and was facing his death and gave some really good speech off in his head. Kanetsugu: Okay, I guess, for a guy who ddidn't have a lot of historical feats to draw upon. Kotarou: INteresting and good, for the most part. Overall, though: SW1's > SW2's. |
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| lmay19 | Jul 8 2007, 03:07 AM Post #11 |
;p
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I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks so. Agreed 100%. In SW1, I can say that I liked atleast 1 ending from every character. In SW2, I only remember Oichi's well and thought it was done well. IIRC, Kotaro & Hanzo had nice ones too. The rest were more generic and very similar to DW ones. As for DW characters: SSX, Diao Chan, Dong Zhou, Zhang He, and Sima Yi were the only ones with endings that stuck out for me. Out of. All. 48. Frikkin. Characters. KOEI needs to focus a bit less on the gameplay and more on stories and quality of endings (or simply backtrack to SW1 <_< ). |
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| LittleDragonZ | Jul 8 2007, 01:44 PM Post #12 |
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Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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Yes its true about Yukimura's ending in SW2 being so far behind his lower path ending in SW1, in terms of appeal. It just sucked and was all happily bubbly....Yet again I did prefer his story in SW1. It was all about him getting revenge for his Lord Shingen's death by trying to slay Ieyasu in which he latter would fail to. Sad and emotional at the same time but he was considered by Ieyasu as Japans greatest hero! That was a good thing, so it wasn't all that bad? |
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| Wei General Xu Huang | Jul 8 2007, 07:19 PM Post #13 |
Jeremy Clarkson watches you while you are alone.
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Magoichi had the best in SW2. SW1 was Yukimura, undespitedly. DW5 I'd have to say they were all so generic, it's a very tough choice. DW2 and 3? Dian Wei, for no particular reason. >_> |
 Akechi Mitsuhide(WGXH) *Ruler* Perks: Arms Expert (Mitsuhide's soldiers take less damage from muskets) Tennozan Charge: Mitsuhide may use this skill to have any Akechi unit quickly gain speed and get to high ground or any advantegeous spot of Mitsuhide's choosing. Musket Blitz: If Mitsuhide has ashigaru teppou or samurai gunmen and some melee troops, he can use this skill to have his gunmen fire into an enemy unit's van while his melee soldiers attack an enemy's flank, thus causing good damage and confusion of the enemy ranks. Vengeful Onslaught: When on the battlefield with Oda, Tokugawa, or Toyotomi forces, Mitsuhide's soldiers can do more damage if this ability is used. Family Allies: When on the feild with Akechi Hidemitsu, Mitsuhide may use this skill to have his entire unit gain a morale boost. Musket Master: Mitsuhide and his men all fire in one synchronized volley. Mitsuhide may injure the enemy commander, and the enemy suffer heavy damage. War: 84 Akechi Mitsuhide= 10,300 ashigaru, 8,700 teppou ashigaru, 200 yakuza, 700 shinobi, 130 reapers, 2,000 sohei, 3,440 samurai | |
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| necrosis | Jul 9 2007, 01:20 AM Post #14 |
Watching and waiting...
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Most DW5 endings left no closure or otherwise just sucked. I agree with most of the DW5's one mentioned, but I actually liked Xiahou Yuan's. Its something about the way Yuan and He as a pair...I dunno. Chubby guy and his goofy buddy make a good duo. They should have more scenes together. I also LOVED Ling Tong's. How can you not love it?! Its funny and fitting. SW...Uh...I agree with lmost everything Hondamn said. .... Hanzou got shafted big time. I much prefered his characterization in SW1. He was almost like Yukimura's bitter enemy, in a way. His SW2 ending is a cool fight scene, but otherwise its just bogus. Hanzou has practically no character in SW2 AT ALL. He's sadly portrayed as what Kotaou insults him as, Ieyasu's dog. In SW1, Hhe was almost like a silent and loyal friend of Ieyasu who always had his back. Gee, the Crossing Iga stage had a big part of Hanzou's character, IMO. >_> Keiji did get shafted in SW2 as well, but not as much an Hanzou. At least Keiji has characterization. And Hasedo. Yukimura is a piece of sh!t in SW2. He's the ultimate loser, and his ending is the worst in the game, bar none. His SW1 ending is best in SW1 for several reasons. Its historic, which is a plus. Its tragic, and tragic is always good. And when Yukimura falls after hearing his enemy praise him, he dies with a smile on his face, earning the fear and respect of his foe. Part of this is why Magoichi's ending is one of the best. .... Nobunaga shedding a tear didn't bother me. Tadakatsu's endings sucked in SW1, and suck in SW2, imo. Most of the stories in SW1 are simply better. It annoys me when crap like Kanetsgu and Keiji show up and Ueda. GET OUT MY SANADA BATTLE, DAMN YOU. Speaking of which, Ueda as a stage is kind of "meh" as well. |
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| GoW | Jul 11 2007, 01:47 PM Post #15 |
KOEI Warriors Unifier
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We discussed this on your forum LDZ, so I know how strongly you feel about endings. Lets just start it off like this. SW endings were better than SW2 endings, although not in a graphic sense, but thats not the point here. Let me run down some of the game favorites. Yukimura - SW1 ending is best in both games, hands down, any argument there? Didn't think so. SW2 ending just a little too happy Hanzou - Both endings do it for me. Not much said, splits his enemies in two, sneaks off into the shadow, mission accomplished! Tadakatsu - Not his biggest fan. Both endings, plain endings for an ordinary individual. Magoichi - SW1 ending is only second to Yukimura's IMO, I still get chills everytime he finally pulls that trigger. SW2, I thought it was a great twist making him the one who killed Nobunaga in the game, and the cutscene @ the Saika village is awesome, wrap it up with him being the one getting shot and you have an awesome story to play with an improved character. Nagamasa & Oichi - "Oichi, do you like flowers?"  Everytime I hear that it makes my skin crawl. These endings do nothing for me in SW2. Actually I prefer Oichi's generic ending in SW1, where she says she will always be chasing her brothers shadow.Masamune - Both endings are okay, nothing really special there. But his final cutscene, OMG I watch that over and over a gain. Mitsunari - Great speach and then you see it was all just a front for the people, not tell me that would not have been just like him. One of my favorites. Ieyasu & Ina - Again like Tadakatsu, plain endings for a Shogunate that did not do much to unify the land except wait. Fuma - Way to shaft Hanzou Koei <_< But I would have rather seen him just watching from that mountain he was standing on in the beginning as Japan burned in chaos. Smiling at the perfect world he just created. Now the DW endings you have to take as they are. Most of the characters die long before the 3 kindoms are united. And if they were to be historically accurate most would be dead before any meaningful story could develop, ie Sun Jian. Most of them do end in or after that characters greatest accomplishment, or the stage they died historically. So Koei does a good job in that sense. Like I said once before I like the endings of Sima Yi, Ma Chao, & Zhang Liao. These endings give you a sense of, whats next? The Zhuge Liang, and Diao Chan ones are okay, but they would all be like this if you want true history. Then you have your Zhang He and Dong Zhou endings which to me are down right funny. But in the end its just a matter of taste. |
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| LittleDragonZ | Jul 11 2007, 02:34 PM Post #16 |
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Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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You know what, I would just prefer Sun Jian having a few stages rather than 8 and most being made up. Especially because he shares the exact same quotes as Sun Quan in those stages as his replacement in command. And Quan should be the one with the most stages anyway. Hanzo's ending in SW2 was pretty darn cool if you ask me. |
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| Qing Long | Jul 12 2007, 10:25 PM Post #17 |
青龙
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In the both games DW and SW, sad endings seems more reals in the history, but it will be too sad if all the characters have bad endings, it won't be fun
 And a games is for laughing too... Sad endings have maybe a great impact but if you laugh (for example) about an ending it's equivalent, I think... It depends of tastes. ^^ |
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| Sanada | Jul 12 2007, 10:28 PM Post #18 |
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The end has come.
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how many endings make u laugh? I dont think any make me laugh... (name some and I might remember if they make me laugh though ^_^) |
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| Qing Long | Jul 12 2007, 10:50 PM Post #19 |
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青龙
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Well, I can name some I remember to laugh (but you're right I can laugh for nothing so maybe I'll be alone to laugh of this) Meng Huo's Ending when she wants to continue the war and Meng Huo not (he just wants his wife and his kingdom), Xiao Qiao's Ending (ending is maybe more cute than fun, but Xiao Qiao is a character who makes me laugh and the first time I see Zhou Yu smiling like this, I laugh), Nene's Ending when Hideyoshi spit on Mitsunari... (after I don't remember for the moment... ^^'''')
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☆ o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-| Sorry for my bad English (English isn't my first language), forgive my mistakes, please, thank you ~ Family o Gallery o KW Addict o KW France o SOTW #43 o WO Avatar | |
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| TinyCaterpillar | Jul 12 2007, 11:03 PM Post #20 |
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Drifting Butterfly
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Let's not forget the dancing Zhang He ending!
Goemon's was kinda funny too with how it started with a bunch of people looking at him expecting him to declare something since he had just defeated Hideyoshi, and he had no idea what to say.
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| san-shin warrior | Jul 13 2007, 07:46 AM Post #21 |
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General
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Oh yeah, speaking of that, I love how Gaemon and Okuni being together for her travel. Its sweet and happy!!! Plus, Oichi's ending was kinda good too... quite emotional!!! |
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| LittleDragonZ | Jul 13 2007, 09:22 AM Post #22 |
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Behold the spear of Baby Dragon!
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Yes it was funny! I've always loved this about Zhang He - Making his soldiers pose and dance in his cutscenes. I will never forget the Jie Ting, Wei, stage opening cutscene showing Zhang He's officers posed like that. You know the scene where he asks the soldier reporting back? ''Was the enemy camp pretty?!'' Some of them were even posing whilst sitting on the floor or lying down lol. Hysterical! :lol: |
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| san-shin warrior | Jul 13 2007, 05:01 PM Post #23 |
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General
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Yeah, ha ha ha... |
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| TinyCaterpillar | Jul 13 2007, 05:13 PM Post #24 |
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Drifting Butterfly
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It was that scene that originally made me like Zhang He. lol :lol: |
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| Qing Long | Jul 13 2007, 05:17 PM Post #25 |
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青龙
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OMG, how I could forget Zhang He's Ending !! It's so funny, let's dance lolol
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