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Samurai Warriors 2: Xtreme Legends [v2]; AKA Sengoku Musou 2: Moushouden
Topic Started: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:40 pm (15,917 Views)
JMSA
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Thank you Mr. Honda!

Well, that seems nice I guess. That means you don't have to import right?
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Mr.Honda
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You're welcome ^_^

Yea, I'm not sure how well the downloaded XL works with imported hard copies of SW2 on 360 (I had PS2 version :hehe: ). Sorry :oops:
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JMSA
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Yeah me too.

I'm probably going to buy an Xbox because they are dirt cheap where I live. Since i'm using it to play a few exclusives, why not buy a few Warriors games also? SW and WO look pretty good I must say.
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Fūma
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You're making an excellent decision in buying this game, for it's possibly the best expansion game Koei has made so far. It basically enhances the already awesome base game in many ways and fixes most of its flaws. The only thing that I feel indifferent about is the nerfing of Shura element, but I guess it was done for balance's sake (it was easily the best element in the base game).
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JMSA
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I know, as I said, like Mr. Honda I have the PS2 version.

I agree with you, this game is really nice. However, speaking just for SW games, I feel it doesn't beat the first one. Gameplay wise I never found it very challenging. It's pretty much a DW5 without the Chaos mode...
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Fūma
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The Dragon Has Returned
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Playing some of the dream stages on Expert difficulty does provide a neat challenge, even if your character is maxed.

A noticeable difference in how difficulty levels are handled in SW1 and SW2 is that the first game raises the enemies' defense stat to ridiculous levels, while the second game focuses on the attack stat. This means that while enemy officers may not take as long to defeat in SW2 than in SW1, their damage potential is far more dangerous and they can slay your character fast if you're not careful.

This is why I don't find the first game particularly challenging. It just takes ages to defeat enemy generals there (on higher difficulties) but there's not as high risk in getting K.Od if you know what you're doing.

I think SW2+XL is a better game than SW1+XL overall, but there are still some aspects that I prefer in the original game. Such as the darker tone of the game, the mission system and the skill tree. It also has the obvious nostalgia factor that still makes it a wonderful game in my book :P And the fantastic OST... I'm listening to it right now haha. Both games do have awesome music.
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JMSA
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I don't think so, simply because you just need to be a little more careful. Not as much as DW5+XL though. We must also consider that SW2+XL game had a lot of broken characters. The horse musou was also broken (wich means you can easily clean up the stage of peons if you have to), the Al was a bit dumb and by the way, it's pretty easy to find healing items (and those items really heal a lot).

When I say SW2+XL is a DW5+XL without the Chaos mode is manly because of this. On DW5+XL you have to be extra careful, crowd control is crucial and if you fail, 3 hits and bang, you're dead... In SW2+XL you don't have this kind of problems (with this sort of intensity of course), and you can basically sit and relax and you'll certanly be alive after 10 minutes.

I find SW1+XL to be superior in almost every way, because in my view it doesn't even try to be pretentious. Yeah, it has one or two problems like every game does, but you can see that Koei really did put their hearts on it.

The game mainly focus on the Oda + Takeda/Uesugi drama, (no Hojo...) wich are the ones that matter anyway. And even if you are a fan of the post-Honnoji stages, you still had epic battles. Komaki-Nagakute f.e. definitely on my top5 of Warriors battles of all time. Some personalities really spot on, (especially Nobunaga and Kenshin) and those who were not, had some sort of unique aura around them.

First game of the DW/SW series to have hypothetical routes. Weapon system similiar to DW3/5 (glad they did not copy the horrendous DW4 system). Castle battles and sieges were really good, still a fan of Nobunaga's hypothetical Azuchi and Hanzo's shadow missions. Your edit characters had training where you could waste some time pleasing the major clans of the Sengoku and a story mode (weird isn't it?). The list goes on and on... but on a finish note, the point system was a brilliant idea, it kinda gave you a reason to play the game again, and again and again...

Gameplay wise, pretty similiar to DW3/DW4 on the aspect of what you just said: Enemies defence stats raised to ridiculous levels. Yes, you do have a point, but that's where your maxed characters + certain combination of items entered. Another reason to keep playing the game again and again: making your characters extremely powerful. It's a bit different from what we are used to right now I must admit. And the thing is the game was still challenging, the Al was smart and really knew how to put up a fight.

And yeah, I do agree, SW1+XL had an amazing soundtrack, Koei really hires the right guys for this sort of things. I even use them when i'm off playing DW games, that's how good the soundtrack is.
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Fūma
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Okay I have to admit I didn't play DW5 much (it was one of my least favorite DWs), especially not on Chaos difficulty :lol: I heard the Chaos difficulty was very tough and there was an in-depth walkthrough on GameFaq to setup each character the best way. You do have good points about the difficulty and A.I. of the games.

I did like alternative routes in SW1 as well, and how some stages could influence others: like if you succeeded in all Mago's sniper missions in his story, then his true final stage will be unlocked and we get to see an ending where he finally manages to put an end to Nobunaga's life. It gave you a sense of accomplishment and a payoff for clearing the stages successfully. I kinda miss them, but it's understandable that they're gone because the original game had a small amount of stories and much smaller cast compared to later games.

However, I have to disagree with this statement: "The game mainly focus on the Oda + Takeda/Uesugi drama, (no Hojo...) wich are the ones that matter anyway". This is not really true. If you're even remotely familiar with the history, you'll see that the game doesn't give any attention to what happens in the west and that's just neglecting too much. There's no Mori, Shimazu, Chosokabe... those and several other clans which don't have any representation are just as important as the ones in the east.

And even though it focuses on pre-Honnoji, the fact that there's barely any battles after Yamazaki gives a skewed view of the era. For example, even DW3 gives a good representation of 3k era even with a relatively small amount of stages. SW1 is just Okehazama-Yamazaki + a few unconnected battles afterward which don't really make much sense anyway when there's so much stuff missing. This means that the second half of the story is more or less missing and that is not a trivial matter. Of course, this was just a design choice and it made sense to not attempt to focus on everything that happened, but it's wrong to state that the major battles and clans not included in SW1 don't matter.
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JMSA
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Well, you really should play more DW5+XL. It's probably the best of the DW series (not my favorite, but I admit it's the best indeed). As I said on this forum before, I wasn't so much of a fan of the game until I watched some of the dw5chaosmodeguide videos.

As for the rest, I think SW1+XL gives a fair representation of the post-Honnoji series, (Yamazaki, Komaki, Ueda, Osaka). But I agree with you, and that's not a problem of SW1+XL particularly, but of the series as a whole. Especially now with the new generation of consoles, SW should have 2 games. I know that we've got SW4/SW4-II but they are not living to their full potential. Let's make an example:

Samurai Warriors "5"

-> Target Era: 1534~1560 (certanly on the 1560's / max. around 1567, Nobunaga's march to the capital)

Major Clans: Oda / Matsudaira-Imagawa / Hojo / Takeda / Nagao-Uesugi / Mori

Oda:

-> Nobuhide Oda
-> Nobunaga Oda
-> Masahide Hirate
-> Hideyoshi Kinoshita
-> Katsuie Shibata
-> Nagahide Niwa
-> Kazumasu Takigawa
-> Toshiie Maeda
-> Oichi
-> ...

- Historical Route: Start at 1534 with Nobunaga's birth and Invasion of Mikawa (1st battle), and finish at Okehazama 1560 (final battle)

- Hipotetical Route: What if Nobuhide didn't die of illness? Would the "Tiger of Owari" be able to bring peace to the land?

Matsudaira-Imagawa:

-> Yoshimoto Imagawa
-> Ujizane Imagawa
-> Sessai Taigen
-> Jukeini
-> Hirotada Matsudaira
-> Motoyasu Matsudaira
-> Tadatsugu Sakai
-> Nobumasa Nagasaka
-> One or 2 members of the Okubo Clan
-> ...

- Historical Route: Start at Yoshimoto's Ascent and his power struggle for the control of the Imagawa clan. Finish at his demise in Okehazama (1560)

- Hipotetical Route: What if the conquest of Owari was a success? Will Yoshimoto suceed on his march to the capital?

You get the picture right?

Add some support characters: Dosan Saito, Harukata Sue... would be a good idea. And one or two support-battles out of the major clans Musou Modes (Azai's fight with Rokkaku f.e.).




Samurai Warriors "5"-II

-> Target Era: 1560's~1615 (Summer Siege of Osaka)

Major Clans: Oda, Hashiba/Toyotomi, Akechi, Matsudaira/Tokugawa, Takeda, Hojo, Uesugi, Date, Shimazu, Chosokabe

Oda:

-> The officers I said before + Hisahide, Hanbei... (who are already on the SW cast). The same goes for the rest of the clans.

- Historical Route: Start with Nobunaga's Ascent (Conquest of Mino) and finish at Honnoji.

- Hipotetical Route: Nobunaga survives at Honnoji and will face Mitsuhide at Azuchi castle ( SW1+XL :) ). Will he realize his dream of a united Japan?

Matsudaira/Tokugawa:


-> Ieyasu Matsudaira/Tokugawa + the Mikawa officers stated on the first game + few adds, Naomasa, Yasumasa (Tokugawa officers of course)

And again, you get the picture right? The same goes for the rest of the major clans.

Add a few support characters: Yoshiaki Mogami, Yoshiaki Ashikaga... Add a few support-battles (the Sanada ones f.e.) and the game is set.




In conclusion, the series would improve so much with this changes. You don't need to overflow the games with a lot of characters. As you saw, I targeted the main clans and even the character adds I propose (officers who don't have 15min. of fame) aren't many and are quite versatile. Nagahide Niwa serves the Oda and then serves as vassal of the Toyotomi. Tsunashige Hojo (who would be a perfect add) starts his career fighting Yoshimoto as an officer of Yoshizane and dies at 1587 (long lifespan).

There would be little room for stupidity (Ujiyasu's "surprising" lifespan in Odawara's conquest f.e.) because the story would be just right. An hipotetical route like DW8+XL wouldn't be out of question and to keep the series out of unecessary adds, just add some unique NPC: Yoshinobu Takeda, Ujiteru Imagawa, Yoshizane Imagawa, Sadazane Uesugi, Harukage Nagao...

We certanly would have a reason to buy both games. Even those who play SW only for the Hack n' Slash and don't care about history, also have to buy both games. I don't think that what i'm saying is something so impossible. It's not even revolutionary, Koei launched SW4 and SW4-II wich means that they have resources to make both games. It's merely a reorganization of existing resources.
Edited by JMSA, Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:13 pm.
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Fūma
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Yeah the guy was "dw5chaosmodeguide", now I remember :D I just didn't really enjoy DW5 much... I tend to prefer Koei's other series over DW anyway. For instance I've always felt SW has been superior to DW.

But anyway, on-topic (well, on to SW matters haha). SW1 does have some battles after Yamazaki, but the problem is that Hideyoshi's actual unification of the land and Sekigahara campaign that subsequently took place are all omitted, meaning that the story doesn't make much sense after Komaki-Nagakute. I feel they only included Osaka campaign because of Yukimura and didn't give much thought whether it made sense in the grand scope of things.

I think your idea of splitting the game based on eras sounds good on paper, and that's in fact something I want for DW (splitting it to three games, 1. YTR -> Chibi 2. Chibi -> Wuzhang Plains 3. Wuzhang Plains -> Fall of Wu). However, I don't really agree with the split point you propose. The pre-Okehazama era is not very popular in Japan media and that's why Koei hasn't given it much attention. Nobunaga is always the central character in these games and his first notable victory is at Okehazama which is basically established as the starting point in the timeline. The second game would also end up having way too much content... I think just splitting the games at Honnouji is the ideal cutoff point and much more balanced when considering the timeline of the two games. However, if one wants to peek much more into the early battles than before, then perhaps a somewhat earlier cutoff point is not completely out of question.

I actually like your idea of making better use of the "-II" suffix. It would make much more sense in a context like this and not just be a weird name for an expansion that didn't even end up being a proper expansion anyway (I think you're familiar with how SW4-II turned out so I'm not explaining it further). After all, adding a -2 or -II suffix to a game does give the idea that it continues the story from where it left. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but they most likely named it as SW4-II to avoid the lawsuit issue with Capcom.

As for whether SW would actually need that kind of split, I don't feel it's the time for that yet. The roster is still manageable and there's tons of interesting story arcs and battles they can cover in the traditional way. But I wouldn't object for it to happen eventually if it can be implemented well.
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JMSA
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Although SW is a DW spin-off I feel they are completely different games and because of that it's a bit difficult for me to make comparisons. I think I can agree with you on that, not entirely but yeah... Manly because of the first (especially this one) and second SW. I did not care for the rest to be honest...

I found that to be quite normal. Ieyasu and Mitsunari (the center of Sekigahara) were not playable, it didn't make too much to add the battle. Hideyoshi's unification is omited, (in a way yes, he didn't fight the Shimazu or the Hojo) I can give you that, but I think the battle of Komaki served as Sekigahara basically. Two forces faced each other to decide the faith of the land, sounds familiar right? Osaka served for Yukimura and Kunoichi, Hanzo and I think for Ina or Tadakatsu too, if i'm not mistaken... One of them had a stage where Ieyasu launched an invasion on Osaka and Hideyoshi was still alive at that point.

A DW split... I agree with that too, but not into three parts actually. Splitting it into two games should sufice:

1-> 184~219/220 (Fan Castle/Yi Ling, death of the main heroes Cao Cao and Liu Bei)
2-> 220~280 (Rise of the Sima's family influence in Wei's kingdom, Zhuge Liang final campaigns, Fall of Wei, Sima Yi's coup, fall of Shu, rise of Jin, fall of Wu)

I know the second game sounds like it will be with too much content, but keep in mind that there aren't too many interesting battles after Wu Zhang Plains (comparatively speaking of course). The first game will almost have them all, those are the battles we usually think when DW pops into our head and you know that's a fact.

But back to SW, I think you are contradicting yourself.

You said that Nobunaga is always the central character in these games, and in fact you are right. The strategy game of the Sengoku era is even called Nobunaga's Ambition. But that's exactly why I choose to divide the games on the 1560's. It's not only because of Okehazama and the importance of the event (who would make a perfect ending for the Oda in the first game), it's exactly because I know that Japan wants the Oda, Japan wants Nobunaga (and so do the westerns, right?).

Let's say they decide to split at 1582, wich in fact makes makes sense (don't get me wrong), but that's not the point, Nobunaga's fans (basically all Japan) will be discouraged to buy the second game. On the other hand if I split the game at 1560's, I covered the prelude of Nobunaga's history and added at least two important battles where Nobunaga appears as the main guy: Unification of Owari and Okehazama.

Think of it as a book series. If you are writing a novel, you don't kill the main hero (and indeed the most popular character) on the first book and expect people to buy the sequel... Especially here when everyone knows what happens.

Nobunaga is huge in Japan and he is dead... just imagine if he was alive!
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roninwolf1981
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This was the very first Koei game I bought, and swear upon my grave that I will preserve that awesome disc. I just hope there will come a time in the near future that I get to play the game once again.
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JMSA
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I recently bought an Xbox 360 and I ordered SW2. What I'm asking is, how do the save files work in this console? Plus, can someone share a complete save with me? I would deeply appreciate it.

Thanks in advance! :)
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Fūma
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That's interesting, hopefully you'll enjoy the game! It's my personal favorite Warriors game out of all that KT has made :)

You should buy XL expansion pack DLC from the Xbox Marketplace, it will add a lot of great stuff on top of the awesome base game. :hehe:

As for save file... well you save your progress for each game just like in any PS console. I don't really understand why you would want to start with a complete save, though, as unlocking characters, stages, movies, weapons etc... is a big part of the fun. :thinking:
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JMSA
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Crash Bandicoot
Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:15 pm
That's interesting, hopefully you'll enjoy the game! It's my personal favorite Warriors game out of all that KT has made :)

You should buy XL expansion pack DLC from the Xbox Marketplace, it will add a lot of great stuff on top of the awesome base game. :hehe:

As for save file... well you save your progress for each game just like in any PS console. I don't really understand why you would want to start with a complete save, though, as unlocking characters, stages, movies, weapons etc... is a big part of the fun. :thinking:
Well, not so fun when you already did everything on your PS2 :P That's the main reason I'm asking for a complete save. SW2 is a very fun game indeed!
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Fūma
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Oh I see. But... why did you buy the game for Xbox if you already own it on PS2? :thinking:

Well anyway, to answer your question, there doesn't seem to be any save file uploads for this game at least not in GameFAQ, as normally there would be a separate tab there providing uploaded save files.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/932837-samurai-warriors-2
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JMSA
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Crash Bandicoot
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:35 pm
Oh I see. But... why did you buy the game for Xbox if you already own it on PS2? :thinking:

Well anyway, to answer your question, there doesn't seem to be any save file uploads for this game at least not in GameFAQ, as normally there would be a separate tab there providing uploaded save files.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/932837-samurai-warriors-2
I bought a 360 and of course, I had to buy KOEI games. Not only because of the better image quality but because I love them :P

Thanks! And yeah, I usually check gamefaqs for saves (for the PS2 obviously) but I noticed that a lot of games don't have a save tab for the 360. I could understand that for the original Xbox but considering that the 360 was really popular in the 7th generation... it's weird.
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Fūma
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Xbox 360 version does have quite good visuals, I'm guessing the HD collection of SW2 compilation that was released in Japan a few years ago in PS3 does look more or less the same. The draw distance and amount of on-screen objects might've been a bit more optimized, though, but the differences are minor.

If I remember right it was either the 360 or PC version that has a slight delay when you input a musou attack, but it's not anything game-breaking.
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JMSA
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Crash Bandicoot
Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:36 pm
Xbox 360 version does have quite good visuals, I'm guessing the HD collection of SW2 compilation that was released in Japan a few years ago in PS3 does look more or less the same. The draw distance and amount of on-screen objects might've been a bit more optimized, though, but the differences are minor.

If I remember right it was either the 360 or PC version that has a slight delay when you input a musou attack, but it's not anything game-breaking.
Indeed, and I noticed that the Xtreme Legends expansion is still quite expensive despite being out for so many years. Still, it's worth it when you are talking about Samurai Warriors 2.

I'm still trying to find Xbox 360 saves. I hope at least that the Xbox save system is different from the PS3. The PS3 required for you to delete the profile on the save. Quite the unnecessary bother if you ask me, I have no idea why the PlayStation division thought of doing that.
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PhineBuyM3
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Been playing SW3Z lately, is 2 and XL still worth playing?
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Fūma
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PhineBuyM3
Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:12 pm
Been playing SW3Z lately, is 2 and XL still worth playing?
SW2+XL is the best in the series. If you liked SW3Z you're gonna love SW2+XL :hehe:
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JMSA
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Pretty much a question I had for a really long time: How to you get ridiculous amount of EXP to max out your bodyguards?
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JMSA
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I'm having another problem, I completed the Story Mode with Kanetsugu Noe, so, why hasn't Mitsunari Dream stage been unlocked yet?
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Fūma
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Have you played through Mitsunari's story yet? Also try clearing Kanetsugu's dream stage if it helps.

As for bodyguards, fight stages with high star rating on Chaos and let them kill everything if they can manage.
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JMSA
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I did all that, I also started a new game but the problem persists....

I'll try that thank you :)
Edited by JMSA, Sun Apr 2, 2017 12:44 pm.
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