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| Woman paid less than Men | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:50 am (645 Views) | |
| DrewTheDude-Dono | Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:50 am Post #1 |
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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One of the things that annoy me about the whole third-wave feminists{other than the constant bitching about things no one really cares about or can change} is their constant whining about how females get paid less than males. While this is true on the statistical basis, it's not by any means due to any form of discrimination. It's just retarded how so many people like to take some big moral stance on this issue and yet they don't use any legitimate proof besides inaccurate statistic analysis to try and prove their point. Let me put it to you like this: if woman really did get paid less than males, then how come employers aren't so keen on just employing woman? Being as they'd pay them less would mean that businesses would be more urged to employ female workers than male because businesses would make more of a profit out of them with males especially whereas they'd be just as effective workers as male. The notion of sexism would be a weak reason to use in this case as many people are very picky with the issue and most would say that they aren't sexist. The question with this is that if most people aren't sexist, then why would it just so happen to be that it's mostly employers and business owners who dislike woman? Especially whereas in my experience, I've met many woman of high positions in small work places such as Empire Theaters or Dairy Queen and have had a woman be my boss in my job. The explanation for this would not be sexism, but rather the priorities and work ethic of woman themselves. Many woman like to take time off to care for their children or anything else of that nature{thus having less seniority} and/or they generally accept lower pay in return for more flexible working arrangements. Lets take for instance a male doctor who works for 500 hours within a month and a woman who works for 250. Obviously the male is going to get more money due to his dedication for his work than the woman despite their abilities. Lets also take into account the amount of woman who actually don't want to go for high paying jobs. If you look at the fields of the more higher and technical professions, you'd find that it's much more male dominated. However, in other fields such as management of a franchise or a teaching career, you'd find that there's plenty of woman in these fields as opposed to the other, higher paying fields. None of these woman were ever denied to obtain these jobs or payed less than males, rather they were simply unwilling to go for higher paying jobs than what they already had. Whatever you like to blame on such a case is up to you, but this goes to show that it really isn't sexism coming into play here. putting that into account, research is showing that woman who tend to act more like males tend to get to get to higher positions and pay in life. Older woman also tend to go for less pay and positions than what younger woman do, perhaps displaying a more traditionalist attitude in work which will eventually die off. All in all, it can be said that this issue is more or less a problem of sociology rather than discrimination. The way I see it, woman at this point have yet to really place themselves in the position in the world they would like themselves to be in. But considering the increase of woman starting to work in our soceity, I can only imagine that within my lifetime we'll see woman attain similar or possibly higher wages as males do. Edited by DrewTheDude-Dono, Sun Mar 1, 2009 6:58 am.
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| bain_nick | Sun Mar 8, 2009 1:25 pm Post #2 |
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Sometimes i wish I could unsay things
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Western Australia is the highest pay difference state for men to woman, statistically, I think around 14% difference. It also has many mines, and thus miners, where very few woman become, and said miners are paid quite a lot. |
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| Mei Ling | Sun Mar 8, 2009 5:06 pm Post #3 |
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The night is dark and full of cherry blossoms
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I am a feminist, and happen to take offense to what you say. |
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| Kratos Aurion | Mon Mar 9, 2009 2:29 am Post #4 |
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MOAR
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Regardless, he's backed up his opinion. Agree or disagree, he can prove his point. |
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| DrewTheDude-Dono | Mon Mar 9, 2009 3:33 am Post #5 |
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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I really don't care if you're feminist or not. I have reason to dislike feminists. And consistent bitching about being "offended" and retarded issues like this is part of it. Rather than whine about being offended, how about you state an argument. There's nothing you've said that really contradicted what I've said. |
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| kuni_izumi | Mon Mar 9, 2009 3:52 am Post #6 |
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Breaker of Destined Fate
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Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. That being said, it makes me a feminist. I'm also a woman SHOCK! And personally if Avuneon could make enough money where I could stay home and just raise the kids I'D TAKE THAT OPTION. There IS sexual discrimination in the work place, but everything DrewTheDude said IS correct...in some cases. You have to keep in mind though that a lot of the assumptions made about women, like wanting time off with their families, can be mis-representing. A lot of 25-45 year old women in America are career, not family oriented and it's women in fields that SHOULD be equal who want the same pay PER HOUR not per week, that are raising the fuss. And if a man and a woman do the EXACT SAME JOB they should be paid the EXACT SAME periodic rate for their work. 'Feminisits' as he puts it, are arguing about this. No sane person can argue a woman should be paid as much as someone who does MORE work than she does. That's ridiculous. Everyone, male, female, black, white, gay, straight, whatever--should be paid on merit/hours worked. Feminists are mostly worried about barriers place in the way of women when they want to go for traditionally male dominated jobs. Thankfully in the USA, the medical, legal, business and military professions have come a VERY LONG WAY from being 'the boys club' but some male domination still exists, particularly in some specific industries (engineering, natural resource excavation, law enforcement, etc.) So everything DTD said is true...but it's not considering the entire scope. Just sounds like he had one too many boob-power speeches shoved down his throat. |
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| DrewTheDude-Dono | Mon Mar 9, 2009 4:03 am Post #7 |
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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But the thing is... Nothing is stopping these woman from entering and succeeding in these jobs. As such, I really don't see any reason why any feminists should complain about it.... Or for that matter, complain about anything at all in the sense of calling themselves feminists. |
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| Kratos Aurion | Mon Mar 9, 2009 4:42 am Post #8 |
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MOAR
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There's reverse discrimination in everything. Universities have to allow a certain amount of minorities and women too. So a guy might have a 92% average, but he might not get in because there are already too many guys. So some random girl with a 78% average would get in. How the hell is that equal? I'm all for women having equal rights, but reverse discrimination is far from it. |
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| The Wielder of Courage | Mon Mar 9, 2009 4:49 am Post #9 |
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OBJECTION!!
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I agree with you fully. In Canada Women pay less for insurance then men, Is that not a little sexist too? We live in an equal world. It makes me laugh what i see everyday. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this. There are so many groups for womens rights, where are our groups? Are we not equal to women so why don't we have a group. The women will complain that our group is an AA meeting. |
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| Fayt | Mon Mar 9, 2009 5:42 am Post #10 |
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Sakon, has left the topic.
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Heh, interesting point. Maybe men should create some naive group over things like not been able to wear singlet’s and slip on shoes to night clubs like females can. ![]() Everyone will never be treated 100% equal, but things are sure as hell close enough, most of the time these fights for rights are over historical problems which don’t really exist anymore anyway. We have a black president and almost had a female after all. |
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| Kratos Aurion | Mon Mar 9, 2009 6:10 am Post #11 |
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MOAR
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l like how this has turned into a women's equality thread. How's this for equality? Men have higher insurance rates for driving. Equal? Hardly. |
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| Fayt | Mon Mar 9, 2009 7:34 am Post #12 |
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Sakon, has left the topic.
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It's annoying to pay more, certainly, but I believe this is derived heavily per statistics, that more male drivers have had car accidents and insurance claims then females. I’m no expert, but insurance is generally based heavily on data to establish their fees, as it’s essentially a cost allocation per head vs. claims (+ profit), broken up into a number of differnent categories. Even car insurance differs simply by living in a different suburb for example due to higher crime rates, break in's etc from one area to the other. Something I learned which really pissed me off when my insurance premium went up almost $200pa just for moving.
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| Kratos Aurion | Mon Mar 9, 2009 8:01 am Post #13 |
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MOAR
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So they're basing the increased prices over prejudice that males are worse drivers? DISCRIMINATION. Ladies, you're not the only ones who get it, so stop whining. |
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| DrewTheDude-Dono | Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:11 am Post #14 |
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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It's not a basis of gender, but rather the fact that males drive more miles per year than women do. Thus they'd have a higher risk of accident. The basis of this is not gender, like men's and woman's pay, but rather the habits of both of them. I find it a bit hypocritical on your part to agree with me on the whole payment part yet you go on about discrimination against males without actually analyzing what caused those statistics... Edited by DrewTheDude-Dono, Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:48 am.
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| Kratos Aurion | Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:00 am Post #15 |
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MOAR
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From the girls and guys I know, I can say that guys are a lot less dangerous on the road. So I'm a little biased about males being worse drivers. Do males drive more than females do? I haven't found any evidence about that, so if you can link me to something that does, then I will retract my statement. |
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| Richie408 | Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:06 pm Post #16 |
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Commander
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I think for woman and men being paid different rates on the same job varies a lot on their performances and how people percieve them to be as... There are some jobs which I feel men will strive at majority over woman mostly labor intensive kind since a lot of male body structured are suited for that... over females. It is understandable there that a male would get higher than a female... if that female can't hold up the amount of work the male guys can...if they can perform the same way then it should be the same.... pay... So in my view of all this things should sorta be based on the performance. Though some would say that there is a biased view already on how a woman will perform over a male... so there is a lot of ego behind this already... Most of the time when I hear arguments about this deals with the higher end jobs like the top managers or the boss lvl.... like why the woman is underpaid over another vp in the company... and such... truthfully it's the kind of culture the business world of things are... the men brought it into dominance and the females just started to step in... some females are already in power now like Pepsico its a female ceo or HP it is a female ceo as well..... but they had to go through lots of different kinds of discrimination judgement calls and sexist statements to find where they are.... that's why its a shame because lots of people think that there was some form of shrewd behavior to get a woman in a higher position which is why the feminists complain about that besides the lower salary... I can see why males don't want females in power though its an ego thing... the men usually think they are the bread bringers in the family and to see a woman take over at times is like a big understatement for them.... especially in the business world... though things are becoming a bit more open about it... but it's really rare to see a woman take a lead from scratch to build a company....that ends up quite big... usually it all started through male brought up company that they endowed over.... but you have to blame this upon history.... back in the day females weren't able to be educated... they were looked as just people whom should take care of the family at home.... now woman can have careers and such....so there is already a cultural bias through a lot of time... that these things are now gradually changing... it's hard to change a trend like this cause in some sense there is a bit of tradition behind businesses too like a business is always wanting a male ceo... its just a company tradition... though feminists would argue that is against equal oppertunity and all that.... but hey it's just how that beginner of the company wanted things... he had his choice..... about it you can opinionate about it all day but that was the choice and that's the guys company so he can make whatever choice he deems... thats generally whats going with the feminists complaints because of choices like that.... |
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| bain_nick | Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:11 pm Post #17 |
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Sometimes i wish I could unsay things
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I do know of a male equal opportunity group in Australia, that fights for mens rights in child custody, though I cannot remember the name off of the top of my head. |
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| DrewTheDude-Dono | Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:10 am Post #18 |
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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Considering how statistics are measured, it's fairly obvious that males travel more miles than females. It's not the basis of who crashes more often, it's the basis of who travels further and longer. As such, females can be at an equal basis as males do in this case. However, females simply don't reach as high as males do as often. As such, males generally pay more than they do.
There's actually a number of groups like this around the world and somewhat of a "men's rights" movement going on, but it isn't quite as large or attention getting as feminism... At this point anyway. |
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| scholar | Wed Dec 9, 2009 12:38 am Post #19 |
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It's a fact that woman are paid less than men. There is, however, no indication that it is caused by sexism. The fields of work most women tend to get into are paying less than men most of the time. |
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