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Counterstrike + God of War = Killing Spree?; Are video games really the only problem?
Topic Started: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:27 am (634 Views)
Matsunaga Hisahide
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http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/03/11/germany.school.shooting/index.html

Yes. It happened again. A killing spree. A rampage. Over 12 people are dead, many got hurt.
And again, the culprit was a young student, calm, nothing special.
He even had a girlfriend, he had friends.
And again, he chattet about what heīs going to do, but again, no one took him serious.

Well, whatīs my point?
Again we hear one thing in allmost every article:

"He had the videogame called Counter Strike on his computer"
"He played videogames"

Only a view mention that his mother&father have around 15 weapons at home, one(the one he used for his killings) under their pillow.
Only a view mention that his father took him to shooting areas in a young age.
That means he had easy access to guns. That means he allready knew how to handle a gun. He grew up with guns.

Why is that an unimportant fact? Why is everyone screaming for tighter laws on videogames and to censor games even more?
Are videogames really that dangerous, are we all going to take a gun and shoot the **** out of it?

What do you think? Are you more agressive after playing a "killer game" or just a videogame?
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Godlikephoenix
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Well, actually...when im finished playing a violent game, I feel less likely to go on a rampage, I think I find games to be a pressure release, but in this case, I dont think it would be just the game that caused the entire problem.

Sure, they might be spurring on an interest, or might give a few 'tips' in that kind of area. Im sure that the way these things seem, if someone goes on one of these rampages, you can always blame something, and it just so happens thats video games are a great scapegoat -_-
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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Yeah...and thatīs the sad thing.

They...well....we all just search for someone we can blame and weīre done with it.
Give the tiger flesh and they wonīt threaten you.

Once we have a reason, a target our hatred can go to, we are satisfied, untill the next killing spree happens.
What about his life, his personality, his friends, his parents, the people, the system he lived in, his home, the books he read, the games he played, the movies he watched, the internet sites he visited. All that should be analyzed and there should be psychological standard. Most of the time, those "killers" are all the same. If they have a "psychological ghost" they can compare with, try to understand the culprits, just like profilers do, it would be easier to prevent such dramas.

But instead they just search for the first thing that comes to their minds and thatīs the evil mastermind behind all this, for the rest of the time itīs interesting news. After all that is over, everyone forgets about it....except for those who lost a beloved person in this tradegy.

(Oh BTW, it was mentioned that he had games and porns on his computer. What a sick bastard, huh? GAMES + PORNS = Killing Spree.
Of course :hmmm: )
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Red Knight
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I'm not so sure how having a "psychological ghost" can help if the gun control laws aren't enforced well, or not enforced at all. I kind of think that making the gun control laws stricter(full background checks) could help as well. If "gun control" was taken more seriously, these incidents would happen less.

Blaming things like videogames, music, external influences etc doesn't help solve the problem. So what if the guy's parents had 15 weapons at home, they didn't kill those people, their kid did. Ergo, pointing fingers won't help in the long run.

Don't you think that the people he told could've done something?
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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Red Knight
Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:30 pm
I'm not so sure how having a "psychological ghost" can help if the gun control laws aren't enforced well, or not enforced at all. I kind of think that making the gun control laws stricter(full background checks) could help as well. If "gun control" was taken more seriously, these incidents would happen less.

Blaming things like videogames, music, external influences etc doesn't help solve the problem. So what if the guy's parents had 15 weapons at home, they didn't kill those people, their kid did. Ergo, pointing fingers won't help in the long run.

Don't you think that the people he told could've done something?
Well the "psychological ghost" is there for identifying such potential "killers". Thanks to modern profiling itīs not only easier to catch a culprit, itīs also easier to prevent such acts.
They search messages for terrorist acts, but ignore someone who talks about shooting everyone. If they catch up something like that, they should profile the guy at once and then judge if this is dangerous or not.

Just like the guy in Finnland, he made a Youtube video, it was known to the police, but they didnīt do anything.

But Iīm going off-topic. Thatīs only one thing to do.
The gun laws are a joke. Parents donīt care for the children anymore. When did you and your family sat down and have a nice talk about your problems? I canīt remember.
Most of the time, before they shoot, they tell someone what they are about to do. Damn, if someone tells you he bought weapons and is going to shoot everyone in school tomorrow, then do something. Even if itīs just a joke, it shouldnīt be taken easily. All this couldīve been prevented if some of those "friends" had acted properly.

And the last thing, thatīs never going to happen, is:
Stop hating. A lot of those "mad killers" are just poor humans who had a hard time. Life can be hard, but for example school can be harder. Sometimes, when I hear someone was going on a killing spree cause he was made fun of his whole life...I can feel them.
I never was and never have done it, but Iīve seen it in school, on the streets, everyday. There are humans, the discriminate them just for fun, let them suffer everyday. They donīt want to go to school anymore, they donīt want to live anymore, their life is just a big ugly torture. They start fleeing into video games, movies, animes, whatever imaginary world they have, because here, no one cares for them. And one day, it makes click. Just because of some miserable litte rats, that chew on the suffering of others. Of course, they donīt deserve to die and thatīs no excuse for shooting 12 people, but some might understand.

It will happen again. Cause people wonīt change. If we just search for a reason, but donīt do anything against it, we will face it, again and again. Parents should talk and care about the children, teachers should care more about what happens in AND after class to their students, the system should do something about this joke of a gun law and other problems, that do their part on raising a potenzial "killing spree".
But should video games, be a bit more sensitive and stop surfing on the violent = cool wave? I mean look at the games. Creative games are more loved than all these Ego-Shooters and violent games, but still, one Shooter after another is proudced, blood flows like a river, guts and horror is spilled everywhere.....do you think such games should be a bit toned down, or should they be even more violent?


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Red Knight
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Well, wouldn't the guy who talks about killing loads of people be dangerous as well? I kinda think that a guy making a video would be pretty obvious.

Why would you blame a person's environment for making a person want to bring a gun to school and shoot people. Well, being made fun of and bullied is no reason to go on a murderous rampage, when counselling and meds work.

Well, people change eventually. I'm sure that no parent would want to INTENTIONALLY raise a mass murderer. Teachers don't really have to care, cause they're not related to their students. I don't think that video-games should be more "sensitive", video-game developers can make all the violent games they want, I'm smart enough to know that those videogames do not reflect reality. Well, I think that there should be a niche for "ultra-violent" video-games like say the Condemned series and ManHunts 1&2.
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Godlikephoenix
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Well, I remember that a few years ago(I think) there was a kid in my year at school brought a knife to school...one that could really deal some damage, I only heard about it a few days after it happened. Well anyway, noone was hurt, but the kid who did it(cant remember a name) well, he wasnt the most popular of people, and I would think that he didnt have the best of upbringings...so that mightve been a factor.

You cant discount anything when it comes to this kind of thing, sure some of them might seem sketchy, and seems like your using a scapegoat, but you need to take in all aspects of their live, and through that you can find out a better picture of them, and what they might be going through to cause a 'brain snap' of some sorts. From what ive seen, its mostly the quiet ones that you need to be careful with, because you just dont know whats going on in their mind, so it could happen at any time...but with people who are quite extroverted, you know when there is something wrong, so its easier to catch.

Well, thats my say for the morning :P
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Red Knight
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What, really, I thought that there'd be tighter control regarding weapons. Did the kid actually try "shanking" someone?

I think that the quiet ones are more dangerous than people who aren't. One "problem child" is different from another "problem child", so you can't put them in the same category. Wouldn't it take a lot for somebody to snap?
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Godlikephoenix
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Well, I dont really know what actually happened, I think someone found out that he had a knife, and then the teachers got him, and I think he was either suspended or expelled....cant remember :)

The amount it would take for someone to snap would vary on the persons mental toughness. Those with that fatalistic approach to life I dont think would have a strong mental toughness, so it wouldnt really take all that much for them to just go out in a blaze of glory. There are those also who may put on a front of strong mental toughness...but in actual fact, they arent, those kinds of people would be hard to spot also. Either way, I would think that the amount, severity and type of pressure is what really tests the mental stabilty and toughness of people, and as I said before, the weaker minded might just crack under the pressure
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BuddHA0991
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Hmm, wanna know what I think the blame went to video games? Simple. A scapegoat. If your son ended up killing a ton of people, and you had done things like taking him to gun ranges and stuff, and he ended up killing and then dying? You would feel completely guilty, but for some, that pain and truth is unbearable, so they got to find a scapegoat to rationalize in their minds, that they had no way to prevent or control this terrible crime and tragedy. Its sad, but its kind of true...
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Red Knight
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Well, blaming videogames, or any form of external influence for that matter, is merely a form of "blame-shifting". Let's say I have a kid, and I take him to gun ranges and he ends up snapping and killing loads of people, I'd take responsibility for my own negligence like a responsible human being instead of scapegoating something else.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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I've always found that these sort of issues are dumb and shows ignorance from people that they can't acknowledge what the real problem is. I often question why people waste time on bull**** like this when it's always shown up to be dumb and worthless...
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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DrewTheDude-Dono
Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:44 am
I've always found that these sort of issues are dumb and shows ignorance from people that they can't acknowledge what the real problem is. I often question why people waste time on bull**** like this when it's always shown up to be dumb and worthless...
Well as a lot have stated.

Itīs the easiest way. Shoot the one thatīs allready wounded. Itīs simple. The parents are happy cause it wasnīt there fault, school is happy cause it wasnīt their fault, people around are happy cause it wasnīt their fault and of course, the system/police/sociey/politicians are happy, because it wasnīt their fault. And the one they blame for it, canīt be harmed by that, cause no matter what sick laws they make, it wonīt prevent us from playing Call of Duty or whatever.

But thatīs the problem. The real problem wonīt be solved. Well whatīs the real problem? I have said a few reasons.....but I donīt really know. Why? Cause no one cares. They have their scapegoat. I can say, that I look after the people I know and I would bet my life on it that no one of them will go on a killing spree. Cause we all care for each other and help each other. Even though we all watch violent movies, play brutal video games. Itīs because we all have someone.

I canīt imagine how it must be, being the joke for everyone, being made fun of everytime, your parents have no time for you and donīt care for you, teachers wonīt lift a finger against these harassments, youīre alone in your room, shooting people in the face, let blood flow in rivers, everyday. And then after playing these games, you make up your mind, take a gun, chat with your so called friends and even when you tell them you are going to kill them all, they ignore you...well...thatīs how it couldīve been. But weīll never know. He is dead. No one really knew him. And no one cares cause videogames are at fault.

Ok, games like Condemned or Manhunt, the more and more realistic War games(Cīmon, whatīs so fun burning people alive or shooting someone in the face? Even if they are made of bits and bytes, those are scenes that actually happened. Vietnam happened. Second World War happened. Why would I want to re-play/live such a horrible time when humanity, lost humanity. I canīt understand people. I guess thatīs because we werenīt in war. I guess itīs because we laugh about something like that. Itīs a game. I know. But I also know, when to draw a line and say thatīs not a game anymore, thatīs just plain stupidity and tasteless. Iīm looking at you, you war fanatic Call of Duty makers. War wasnīt fun and isnīt fun. Stop glorifying.)
should be toned a bit down. They can make what they want, but at least show some sense of taste. Those are games played by a lot of people. They have big influence. Care about that.
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Red Knight
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I think that the reason "normal" people play violent and brutal videogames, watch violent movies and listen to violent or aggressive music without wanting to kill shitloads of people is more the fact that they're reasonably balanced human beings as opposed to "having someone".

The reason that games like Call Of Duty or Condemned or Man Hunt are popular because violence can be seen all around and nobody bats an eyelid or says that it's "wrong". Admit, the idea of slogging through a CGI Normandy is pretty awesome. Videogame companies can make all the violent games they want, parents' groups be damned.

Considering that I'm a person who can REALLY get under someone's skin with insults and can make fun of people, I wouldn't want to set off the psycho in the class who just might cause my brain to splatter over my desk. "Sticks and Stones" remember.
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Godlikephoenix
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The "sticks and stones" thing is true, but in this day an age...is seems more like "bullets and knives, may take our lives, but words will never hurt me" but even so...words can sometimes be a lot more painful that physical damage, depending on how hard those words hit. Physical abuse =/= the one and only reason for psycological damage, words do most of the heavy lifting when it comes to degrading someone.

@Devilsking: Its true, war wasnt meant to be fun...and the real thing is never meant to be...but people find the games fun because its an escape to a whole different world, even though that world was only a little less than a century ago, but it still counts as a different world. People get to experience what it wouldve been like for the people in that time, to be fighting for survival, kill or be killed kind of thing...but I guess people focus too much on the killing, and not the story behind the whole thing -_- . Games like Condemed and Manhunt are just rediculous...sure people might want a fright ever now and then, just to feel alive, but you dont have to be beating some guys skull in with a lead pipe to do so. Doom and other games like that have the gore too...but theyre fantasy based...so its not really the same as killing other humans...and at least Doom3 has an alright storyline to it :P
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Red Knight
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Wait a minute, wouldn't physical abuse be worse tham verbal abuse? I mean would you rather be made fun of than beaten half to death of shot? Words don't hurt that much compared to being hit, or maybe that's just my opinion.
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Godlikephoenix
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Well....yeah, that would be pretty bad, but I meant in affecting psycoligical health...and I also said that verbal can sometimes be worse, depending on how hard the words hit, like who theyre said by, why, what context, what was actually said, etc.

Beaten half to death would be a traumatic experience no doubt, but I dont think it would have the same effect as constant psycological torture, or something like that :)
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Zhao Yuns disciple
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How trivial...
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for now, i can really only speak for myself. im in my early 20's and ive been playing video games since i was about 7 or 8 years old. i played violent games like Mortal Kombat, Robocop vs. Terminator, Primal Rage, Killer Instinct and alot of other gore filled games in arcades and on console up to this very day. well, here i am and i still havent killed anyone. nor have i been violent or been arrested for any offence. i have not abused any person or animal. i have never held a gun (though i am a believer in the 2nd ammendment and would probably get a gun for home defense). on top of this, i grew up in a single parent home, no father. youd think with this combination of upbringing id be stacking torsos in a heap and sticking heads on pikes. so why am i not? im trying to wonder why vidoe games continually get judged by the way a very small amount of people react to them. why must the few always ruin it for the many? ill hand it to our Supreme Court though, they continually shoot down any attempt to regulate violent video games. but i see hypocrisy everywhere i look. why can crappy lazy parents support the idea of punishing game makers for their failure as parents? what is causing each passing generation of parents to be less effective and unable to accept any responsibilty? why do politicians continually build their career on these legislations to regulate games? why does all 4 branches of our armed forces (just watch about an hour of G4 and see just how many commercials for the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines you see) continue to use video games as a way to turn our youth into soldiers with itchy trigger fingers who would shoot anyone they point at so they can feel like theyre Master Chief or something? these are legitimate questions, but i ask these somewhat rhetorically because i have already come up with the answers. i guess a broad answer i can give is that, at least here in America, were becoming more and more faaaar left liberal. the BAD kind of liberal that says "Its ok to blame someone else, its not your fault".
Edited by Zhao Yuns disciple, Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:19 am.
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Red Knight
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It's kind of sad how irresponsible parents fob their responsibility for buying their kid violent videogames and guns and the kid going postal. It's the parents fault for not being responsible enough, so why can't they admit responsibility like responsible human beings? It's always the kids who go postal who screw it up for normal people!
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Godlikephoenix
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There would only be perhaps a handful of parents who would actually have the decency and actually take responsibility...pretty much everyone else is just so oblivious to the fact that it isnt all the persons choice...the way they are brought up, meaning the parents having a large hand in this matter, affect how they are, and how they are perceived and treated by others.

Some think that they are doing just a brilliant job in raising their kids, when they actually arent, and then there are those who just dont give a sh!t, and when something like this occurs, involving their child, they just dismiss any hint that it was their fault, and blame something else, in this case...video games, mainly because(I think it was said earlier in here) it cant really fight back, so its an easy target.

There are just not enough people in this world who actually take responsibility for their own actions, and there are also just way to many people who are more willing to blame something else, just so they dont have to deal with any consequences -_- its sad really
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Red Knight
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Really? So, if a teenager(or college student) goes postal and the parents get blamed, 99.9% of the time they'll just defer the blame onto someone or something else? Well, nobody's perfect, and there's no such thing as the perfect parent, as much people would like there to be one.

Wouldn't you assume that taking responsibility for your actions would be a normal thing to do?
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Godlikephoenix
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Yeah, you would assume that would be the case, and yeah...I know there's no such thing as a perfect parent, and even those who would accept the blame aren't neccessarily some divine being, but people know that accepting responsibilty is the right thing, but dont want to...so they blame, just so they dont have to deal with it, all they have to deal with is the loss of a son/daughter and not be judged for it.
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Red Knight
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Well, the people who accept blame at least have some decency and can admit that they screwed up. Blaming other people(or other things) for your own failings gets you nowhere. Losing a kid is a pretty serious thing, especially if parenting skills get called into question as a result
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scholar
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If someone goes out on a killing spree because they played a game, it's not the game it's the person. People play violent video games all the time, it doesn't make the commit a violent act. It may make them think about actually committing the act but it's up to the person to have self control.
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