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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,972,517 Views)
Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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i dont even know which one Soleil is
Oh, her.

Such a lame anyway. Let her rot.
Edited by Mr. Kamikaze, Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:28 am.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Redoing the entire support needs to be done. Soleil is into girls, primarily, but she does have male supports, NONE of which require them to suddenly look like a girl to her and her alone.

Hell, go with flowers. Make them bond over flowers. I'm all for it.

Hell have them like bond over how much they think girls are hot. That works and isn't freakin' creepy, if highly unusual. But FE IS highly unusual.
Like yes, Foleo dresses and presents in a feminine manner and that's why Soleil is attracted to him. But the thing is that's WHO HE IS. It's not him slipping her magic powder.

Like.. if this was some eroge, whatever, that **** happens. It's creepy and I don't excuse it but it at least comes with the territory. But this is FIRE EMBLEM. Where people who do bad things are either punished by fate or change their ways.

I can accept not-really-incest. I can tolerate "token gay per version!" BS. I cannot abide by drugging someone to get them to like you.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:36 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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One thing and everyone loses their mind. Hopefully Zhou Cang(or Fansh*t) isn't added in DW9 but instead Liao Hua get in. Otherwise i'll go batsh*t crazy too.
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dancingswan
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This is IS we're talking about, and we all know how terrible they are at writing(see: Lon'qu and Nowi's supports).
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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You're going to hate my opinion on this Mew, but I'm going to dish it out anyways.

The main purpose of a video game is entertainment. This is true of other media as well such as television, books, etc. Sometimes you might spot something unsavory in something you read, watch or play. You might disagree with a certain message being conveyed. However, you might still find yourself enjoying the overall media despite spotting something that you personally find racist/homophobic/bigoted/misogynistic/etc. If you're narrowminded, you will decide that since you found one little thing that offends you, you're going to ignore everything else you hear from that book, video game, movie, etc. I personally think that a better course of action is to simply point out the flaws in the offensive bit and move on to the rest of the content.

In my opinion, disregarding an entire game because of one thing that offends your personal sensibilities is a mistake. Of course, you absolutely have the right to do this as a consumer. You can choose not to buy the game out of protest for certain dialogue that IS wrote in. However, I do not think you are doing video games a service by doing so. The main purpose of video games is fun gameplay. If people boycott video games every time they get their social justice panties in a twist, for one thing, it's not going to do anything to actually promote social justice. Secondly, the people who do this become close-minded to any views which oppose their personal sensibilities. Third, they miss out on potentially great video games which may be great in nearly every way in spite of having one thing particularly offensive.

I read that support. Yeah, it's retarded. However, you can also just avoid it in-game. Moreover, you're selling short about 10x more dialogue, which might end up being quite good, just because of one set of conversations that you find offensive. Maybe if the whole game was so insensitive, you might have a better reason to avert it. By simply avoiding that support, however, you render it non-existent in your personal playthrough of the game and therefore as not occurring. Perhaps you'll enjoy everything else in the game and will be missing out on it should you decide not to play the game. Hell, maybe Soleil will have lesbian S supports.

If you were to take a good hard look at this entire issue, Fire Emblem as a series has had far more objectionable things in it in the past. It also has had some great things and has broken ground in terms of video game character archetypes. The newest entry even has outright gay relationships, which is pretty progressive for video games nowadays (moreover, previous games implied them as well with characters like Heather).
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Dw strikeforce 3rd / SW Strikeforce NEEDS TO F*CKING HAPPEN.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Eh, some of the supports are passable if not really cool. Using the supports I'm most familiar with (Libra's), I really like Libra and Tharja's up until the very end, for instance. And though I loathe how Nowi is basically "I'm a loli, but technically hundreds of years over the age limit", her support with Libra from what I read is ****ing adorable.

But I think that just proves the "MARRY ANYONE TO ANYONE" approach drags everything to ****. Not everyone is compatible in real life, so why would they be in a game? The main character is excusable, but having everyone of the same generation being able to shag anyone else of a different gender is a tad silly. If that limits me from pairing a sexy and/or badass chick with a cute guy, so be it, I'm fine with that if it means tighter writing. I can just pair them in my fanfics.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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I wanna see SW strikeforce!
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Quote:
 
This is IS we're talking about, and we all know how terrible they are at writing(see: Lon'qu and Nowi's supports).


I don't agree with you on this. I feel that IS does some writing well and some not so well. I disagree with calling all their writing terrible as there have been many Fire Emblem supports or plot dialogue which I greatly enjoyed. I have an overall favorable impression of their writing over the course of playing nearly every FE game since the original (English) one on GBA.
Edited by Rance, Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:45 am.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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I'm sorry for just skimming Rance, and I'll go back and read it through in a bit, but after calming down, I do feel like I overreacted with "BOYCOTT BOYCOTT" but I still think it's really gross and I'll definitely complain to Nintendo about it if they don't remove it from or change it in the English release.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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ChibiGingi
Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:43 am
I wanna see SW strikeforce!
Wanna see my Nobuyuki with his hair down and expands just like a lion. Naomasa goes total sentai...Ina goes Dryad..Naotora goes Diaochan's SF and many more.
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dancingswan
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You can't dictate how someone reacts to something they find offensive. There isn't a fill-o-meter of offensiveness where someone goes "that's the exact point where I back off".
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Mewshuji
Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:45 am
I'm sorry for just skimming Rance, and I'll go back and read it through in a bit, but after calming down, I do feel like I overreacted with "BOYCOTT BOYCOTT" but I still think it's really gross and I'll definitely complain to Nintendo about it if they don't remove it from or change it in the English release.
For one thing, they will very likely change it in localization. Secondly, even if you dislike this one aspect of the game, I still think that you are doing a disservice to yourself by ignoring the entire game because of one support pairing which is easily avoidable. If your personal headcanon is that Soleil is a 100% lesbian and will stay a lesbian, you can support her with other girls in game (which will likely be an option, even if not necessarily romantic) rather than going through that garbage support with MU.

Quote:
 
You can't dictate how someone reacts to something they find offensive. There isn't a fill-o-meter of offensiveness where someone goes "that's the exact point where I back off".


Where did I do that? I said that Mew has every right to do what he wants as a consumer. I simply pointed out my belief that it is a mistake to disregard an entire game, movie or book because of one segment of it that you dislike. You miss out on so much if you turn your back entirely on every little thing or person which pisses you off. Ok, so maybe that support is garbage. But what about the rest of the game? Maybe the rest of the game has heartwarming or really good supports outside of that one garbage one.

Sengoku Rance is my favorite game of all time because the game is so ****ing fun and addicting to play. I found some of the scenes in it extremely disturbing, but the game itself is an amazing RPG which I am glad to have played. It took a lot for me to walk outside my comfort zone to play it because I had never played a game like it prior. I can overlook the rape and brutality (in certain parts) of the game because the rest of the game is good.

Similarly, I can overlook incest and other **** in FE because I love the games. But if I was to close my mind just because of one or two things I found offensive in the series, I would have never enjoyed some amazing games.
Edited by Rance, Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:53 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Mewshuji
Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:45 am
I'm sorry for just skimming Rance, and I'll go back and read it through in a bit, but after calming down, I do feel like I overreacted with "BOYCOTT BOYCOTT" but I still think it's really gross and I'll definitely complain to Nintendo about it if they don't remove it from or change it in the English release.
Everyone learns from their mistake. If i was them i would just keep it as a reminder that this is WRONG. And when next game i made i TRIED TO not do THAT AGAIN.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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After reading your initial post to me I don't feel I have much to change. As you suggested I overreacted but I'm still severely squicked out.

Swan's right, if I'm offended enough to not buy the game, I shouldn't buy it. But I think a lot of my anger was from it sneaking up on me like this, and then me reacting in anger without reading it the whole way through myself. I just sort of skimmed and saw "I slipped this powder in your drink" and was like WOAH NO MAYDAY MAYDAY EFF DIS. I get very emotional very easily.

Reading it over it's not as bad I initially thought but it IS still bad and gross. Not boycott bad, as yeah I CAN avoid it like you can with the not!incest... but still bad.

Speaking of the not!incest, reminds me that you run into Camilla's boobies. On the one hand yay Camilla boobies! On the other... at that point in the story you two think of each other as siblings so that's a bit EWWW??? So I'm very conflicted with that.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Thu Jul 2, 2015 6:58 am.
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dancingswan
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If someone is offended by something, and doesn't want to support said offensive thing even if it is the tiniest thing imaginable. It isn't close-minded. People's view on that singular point are going to be different, and what may seem minuscule and minor point to push someone away from a game can be very large to another. You can say "oh I found stuff offensive in a game I enjoyed, but I didn't let that obscure my view of the title" from dusk till dawn. It doesn't change the fact that someone is 1. offended, and 2. the offensive point in question is off-putting enough to push them away from the point in question.

That sort of logic reminds me of when I was a kid, and my older brother and his friends tried to get me on a roller coaster that I didn't really want to get on because I hated heights. "Oh I hated heights too, but once you get on, it'll be fun" I don't care how you enjoyed it, I don't want to get on, it isn't for me, I don't like it.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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You can do whatever you want.

However, I just think that it's a big mistake to disregard the entirety of a work because of one little thing that you find offensive.

I mean...look at ROTK. That book is littered with offensive ****, but it's still regarded as a classic by most 3k fans that read it. Among the wacked out **** that happens in that book, there's murder, whitewashing, supernatural nonsense, historical anachronisms, historical inaccuracies, highly misogynistic statements, torture and Liu Bei eating somebody's wife. But if you disregard the novel because of these things, you miss out on a great novel even if you might find certain parts hard to swallow.

And you can apply this to many other things as well. You're obviously not sensitive to profanity, but what if you were? Would you decide to not watch an entire 1 hour 30 minute movie because at a single point in the movie, somebody drops an F bomb? What if the entire rest of the movie is profanity-free?

Quote:
 
If someone is offended by something, and doesn't want to support said offensive thing even if it is the tiniest thing imaginable. It isn't close-minded.


It's very thin skinned and I do believe that it is narrow minded, especially since in this case it is presented as an option and not as canon. If you dislike it, you can avoid it.

The rollercoaster analogy is not really relevant to what is being discussed unfortunately. A better analogy would be you deciding to not even go to an amusement park because of a rollercoaster ride which you can easily avoid.

Edit-Gotta work. I'll be back laters.
Edited by Rance, Thu Jul 2, 2015 7:10 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Umm..Rance. From my view and observation, Most member here dislike NOVEL and that they hugely prefer historical facts. If they forced to read 3K books, i assume Most would read well historical books like Sanguozhi instead of RoTK.
But you know what let's talk about something else. Actually i commission someone again. This time it's Bianshi and she'll sing her beautiful song to stop Liao Hua, Lady Wu, Jian Yong, and Xu Sheng from advancing Cao Cao.
Edited by Ryō Genken, Thu Jul 2, 2015 7:16 am.
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dancingswan
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You're not taking into account that perspectives are different. That "small thing" can leave an impact on someone, a negative one at that, and what appears to be great to everyone else, isn't all that spectacular in the other's eyes.

You are able to put your sensitivities on the back burner, congratulations. But not everyone is blessed with that ability.
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Nuriko
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the perfect Family
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Been playing chronicles 3 all day lol
What's everyone fighting about?
Edited by Nuriko, Thu Jul 2, 2015 7:37 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Dynasty Girl
Thu Jul 2, 2015 7:31 am
Been playing chronicles 3 all day lol
What's everyone fighting about?
Soliel being forced into straight with Kamui(Male).Soliel stated her atrraction to women is a weakness and then Kamui "helps" her by drugging her that makes her falls for Kamui because she thinks Kamui is a girl. That's what i CAN summary. Search Mew's posts for better understanding.
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Nuriko
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the perfect Family
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My thoughts on that Ryo? Be open minded it's FICTION,it's not real and never gonna be,in works of fiction there is literally NOTHING that disturbs me. I've played Eroge games because I like the story,I've read incest manga with an absolutely BEAUTIFUL well written story. If you let things get to you then you'll really miss out on things
Hell there's questionable and disturbing things in ROTK and the history behind SW that are WORSE than just a roofie,Zhang Fei kidnapping his wife as a child,Non Koei Kiyomasa Kato etc. The point is there's effed up shiz all over the place, turn the other cheek hun
Edited by Nuriko, Thu Jul 2, 2015 8:08 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Dude i'm not the one troubled by it... it's Mew.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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I'm not going to be open-minded about something that's basically date rape played as if it's hunky dory and even good lmao
Fiction or not that's ****ed up.
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Nuriko
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the perfect Family
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Meh I don't care enough to argue lol
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