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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,971,064 Views)
Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Cao Liang
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:29 am
Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:24 am
Why should it be a crime? Women who want an abortion will still go on to get one, but at greater risk to themselves than if it were legal. I don't think anyone should get to control another person's body.

And no, a fetus, until a certain point in development, is not a person. It's just science.
I'm for abortion in cases of rape, underage and medical emergency.

Use condoms. Time of month. Pills. Taking out your d*** when c*mming. Use all means possible! Prevent unwanted pregnancies!

Late-term though? They should've seen it coming earlier. At that stage I really don't like it.

For this one i agree. Raped women allowed to take abortion. It's not by her own will. But if the woman use her will..then that's her problem.
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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Cao Liang
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:26 am
I don't think many people fit neatly into the two "political boxes" that the Americans have.

Like, yes there can be people who are Social liberal and fiscal conservative, or vice versa (social conservative but fiscal liberal, similar to.... the Catholic church) and neither mainstream party represents them. A multi-party democracy is more "fair" in that sense, but it leads to another problem which is that too many parties do in fact spoil the broth by making it almost impossible to govern properly. Countries like Israel and France were/are crippled by the massive numbers of parties that split, come together and split again over and over. So in that sense the USA is actually EASIER to govern, hard as it is to believe!

This. Most people are moderate, but the society we live in forces people to pick sides on one extreme or the other or risk being left out entirely.

Another problem is how many people make decisions based on emotional reactions and not on facts or logic, as we see.

I don't like the idea of forcing a woman to carry an unwanted child to term. Do you really want another kid to grow up with a parent who doesn't want them or simply does not have the means to take care of them, be neglected, then grow up to likely become a criminal and detriment to society? The adoption system is already severely overloaded and most of those kids grow out of it and end up on the streets already.
Edited by Wild Lion, Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:37 am.
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Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:24 am
Why should it be a crime? Women who want an abortion will still go on to get one, but at greater risk to themselves than if it were legal. I don't think anyone should get to control another person's body.
couldnt the same be said of genital mutilation
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Nuriko
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I'm not even for abortion in cases of rape brother Adoption exists for a reason I think the ONLY instance in which abortion is if not okay at least acceptable is incest because those poor babies are often born with horrible debilitating deformities
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im not pro life btw.
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Angelic Linca
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Cao Liang
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:31 am
LittleMonsterSakura
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:26 am
General Sherman was a cool dude. Southerners need to lay off him.
Posted Image

Sherman was one crazy mofo. He won the war for the union and hastened up the freeing of the slaves by cold, brute force. Too bad so sad, confederacy, shut the F up you kept slaves sow the wind reap the whirlwind.

The Civil War ended in 1865. Get over it already, white southerners. I'm done.
Best part of whole campaign was how indifferent he was to Columbia, South Carolina being burned down. Basically said they deserved it for being first state to secede.
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Ryō Genken
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Dynasty Girl
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:30 am
Then we may as well free every inmate on Death row convicted of Murder Ryo because taking a life is taking a life
It's better to see a little fetus never grown than living a miserable life of being prejudiced by its own mother or society.

Also to me it's fine if they want ban abortion just that the raped babies sent into orphanage and later on sent into the father AS A PUNISHMENT.
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Nuriko
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I'm anti abortion pro assisted suicide as strange as that is
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you can very rarely prove rape, let alone prove the father in case of rape.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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They're not babies though, not until the last few months. If they could not survive out of the womb, they are not people. And, moreover, many people are so passionate about pro-choice because many fetuses are attached to women who might die.

Bringing up religion, btw? This is covered in Abrahamic texts, btw, including the Bible- women's rights come before the rights of unborn children.

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, "(NAS, Exodus 21:22-24)

Clearly, the woman is more important than the unborn. So, why should we think any different?

There's another passage in Numbers which advocates for abortion if the child was conceived through adultery- though, some interpret it as making the woman sterile instead.

Solely speaking of my personal beliefs- if I was a woman, and I got pregnant, and I was in no health danger from the pregnancy, I'd carry to term and either raise the child or put them up for adoption. But I understand if people would want to abort. But the fact is many people want the option to abort because of the woman's health.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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LittleMonsterSakura
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:34 am
Cao Liang
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:31 am
LittleMonsterSakura
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:26 am
General Sherman was a cool dude. Southerners need to lay off him.
Posted Image

Sherman was one crazy mofo. He won the war for the union and hastened up the freeing of the slaves by cold, brute force. Too bad so sad, confederacy, shut the F up you kept slaves sow the wind reap the whirlwind.

The Civil War ended in 1865. Get over it already, white southerners. I'm done.
Best part of whole campaign was how indifferent he was to Columbia, South Carolina being burned down. Basically said they deserved it for being first state to secede.
They also used confederate "dollars" to make campfires and cook their food. Sherman's army was full of crazy mofos and probably some nutjobs as well. But sometimes a change for the better (freeing slaves) does have to be done by brute force, and that march was the epitome of brute force in the American context. 600,000 people died during the war. It was a different country and a different time. Sherman also said "War is hell" and he understood it was better to be completely ruthless now than to let the war drag on for 2, 3, 10 more years of misery. They didn't want war but if it came, be completely ruthless and end it as soon as possible by any means necessary. That was Sherman's modus operandi, and it was his march, not Gettysburg, not even Vicksburg, that sealed Union victory.
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Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:37 am
If they could not survive out of the womb, they are not people.
that is a dangerous philosphy to have, my sister could not survive out of the womb when she was born, there are complications at birth, some children are born with diseases, this is not at all a good criteria for life.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Ehh, genital mutilation is bad Scottie. I'm against involuntary circumcision and the mutilation of baby girl's genitals. I'm not sure why it was brought up? o:
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Angelic Linca
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Robert E. Lee would give Zhuge Liang a good challenge. Barring Gettysburg, Robert E. Lee was a highly skilled tactician. Most people credit him as the best military commander in American history.
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Nuriko
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And if a teenager decides to be a whore and gets pregnant what then Mew? Are you still okay with it then too?
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Ryō Genken
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Scottie
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:36 am
you can very rarely prove rape, let alone prove the father in case of rape.
and that is why it is impossible. It's better to be aborted.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Scottie
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:39 am
Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:37 am
If they could not survive out of the womb, they are not people.
that is a dangerous philosphy to have, my sister could not survive out of the womb when she was born, there are complications at birth, some children are born with diseases, this is not at all a good criteria for life.
I apologize, you're right, it was a poor choice of words. Especially since humans are super-undeveloped compared to other mammals.

I'm not sure how else to phrase it, tbh. :thinking:
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Nuriko
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Her health is in no danger she simply doesn't want to be inconvenienced? Is THAT okay too?
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Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:39 am
I'm not sure why it was brought up? o:
kind of devil's advocate i guess, i didn't find your reasoning to be very sound.
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Angelic Linca
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Blue Sunshine of Wei
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Cao Liang
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:38 am
LittleMonsterSakura
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:34 am
Cao Liang
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:31 am
LittleMonsterSakura
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:26 am
General Sherman was a cool dude. Southerners need to lay off him.
Posted Image

Sherman was one crazy mofo. He won the war for the union and hastened up the freeing of the slaves by cold, brute force. Too bad so sad, confederacy, shut the F up you kept slaves sow the wind reap the whirlwind.

The Civil War ended in 1865. Get over it already, white southerners. I'm done.
Best part of whole campaign was how indifferent he was to Columbia, South Carolina being burned down. Basically said they deserved it for being first state to secede.
They also used confederate "dollars" to make campfires and cook their food. Sherman's army was full of crazy mofos and probably some nutjobs as well. But sometimes a change for the better (freeing slaves) does have to be done by brute force, and that march was the epitome of brute force in the American context. 600,000 people died during the war. It was a different country and a different time. Sherman also said "War is hell" and he understood it was better to be completely ruthless now than to let the war drag on for 2, 3, 10 more years of misery. They didn't want war but if it came, be completely ruthless and end it as soon as possible by any means necessary. That was Sherman's modus operandi, and it was his march, not Gettysburg, not even Vicksburg, that sealed Union victory.
Vicksburg and Gettysburg did serve important strategic purposes though, the former giving the Union full control of the Mississippi and splitting the Confederacy in two, and the latter basically breaking the back of the Confederacy strength-wise.
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Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:41 am
Scottie
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:39 am
Mewshuji
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:37 am
If they could not survive out of the womb, they are not people.
that is a dangerous philosphy to have, my sister could not survive out of the womb when she was born, there are complications at birth, some children are born with diseases, this is not at all a good criteria for life.
I apologize, you're right, it was a poor choice of words. Especially since humans are super-undeveloped compared to other mammals.

I'm not sure how else to phrase it, tbh. :thinking:
I honestly dont think there is a good way to phrase it, since the cut off point for what is and isnt human is incredibly fuzzy and will ultimately vary from person to person, which is what makes abortion a hot topic and one where such an extreme dichotomy of sides is not pertinent to a solution.
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Wild Lion
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Dynasty Girl
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:39 am
And if a teenager decides to be a whore and gets pregnant what then Mew? Are you still okay with it then too?
And here's the root of the issue

A lot of people are angry at women for having sex and see a child as a punishment to them, and not as a living person.

You say "This girl was a whore and irresponsible, so now she should be stuck with this baby and learn her lesson"

I say "This girl was irresponsible and immature and a child should not be forced to be raised by her"
Edited by Wild Lion, Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:47 am.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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LittleMonsterSakura
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:39 am
Robert E. Lee would give Zhuge Liang a good challenge. Barring Gettysburg, Robert E. Lee was a highly skilled tactician. Most people credit him as the best military commander in American history.
Historical Zhuge Liang would get beat by Robert E. Lee, and I'm Chinese so this is totally unbiased assumption. NOVEL Zhuge Liang though? He could just predict a time of wind and heavy rain and then annihilate the confederates using nothing but arrows and melee weapons :lol:

Lee was a good tactician, but he was too much of a nice guy and that cost him Gettysburg. He phrased his orders to Ewell (Stonewall Jackson was dead) to take Culp's hill in a very polite way ("if practicable") and Ewell just decided "screw it" and didn't attack because he had a bad leg and was tired and angry. If the confederates had attacked and taken Culp's Hill, they could've won at Gettysburg and perhaps forced an armistice.

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Nuriko
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I was born premature Mew,I have a hereditary lung disorder,there's days I go without sleep because I'm afraid I'll drown from the fluid in my lungs,I have to have invasive surgery at MINIMUM every three months BUT I've also got a good job,a loving husband great friends and family who love me,I'm a prime example that being chronically ill doesn't mean I don't have a quality life and who the hell are YOU to decide if a baby deserves the same chance I got?
That's not YOUR choice,that's not MY choice,that's NOBODY'S choice but God's
Edited by Nuriko, Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:48 am.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Dynasty Girl
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:39 am
And if a teenager decides to be a whore and gets pregnant what then Mew? Are you still okay with it then too?
>Slut-shaming
Okay then... >_>

Yes I am. She could be ostracized by her peers for just being pregnant (she ought not be). If we lived in a fairy tail land where people did not judge others just for ****ing having sex (it's just sex, no big deal solely scientifically speaking), I would be against abortion in such a case. But we don't.

Again, I put the rights of a living, breathing human being before a hypothetical human.

Like... at what point do you consider a fetus a person? When the egg is impregnated? If so, then many pregnancies are already flushed away by the human's body. Should we punish women for what their body does that they cannot control? If not, why punish them for a conscious choice? That's a law double standard- if you rob someone by mistake, you still robbed them and are charged as such.


Oooh boy Bernie, Martin, and Hilary killing it about health care and Republicans being hypocrites. And marijuana too. Too many people in jail from such a benign thing.
Wild Lion
Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:45 am
You say "This girl was a whore and irresponsible, so now she should be stuck with this baby and learn her lesson"

I say "This girl was irresponsible and immature and a child should not be forced to be raised by her"
I'm... I'm agreeing with Wild Lion?

Neat. *hi-five*
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:49 am.
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