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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,969,154 Views)
DovahChunhuwat
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Soldier
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TMMA1869
Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:46 am
Finally through with tumblr tagging :crazy:
tumblr tagging ?
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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I'm not really sure how games can't be taken seriously as art AND also be relaxing and fun at the same time... ._.

I mean no one says "people take movies too seriously" in spite of the fact we have whole awards shows for them based on artistic and not entertainment value.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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Uesugi Kenshin
Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:36 am
I wasn't talking to you I was talking to DMR and Cao. Sorry.
I'm not a fan of that franchise either *shrugs*

Honestly though, in my opinion, if you like or hate the message in question, then buy or don't buy it respectively. done. Simple. :whistle:

And anyway, you know me Mew :heykosho: The only damn reason I'm going to play an RPG of that style is chainmail bikinis, T and A and everthing in between :heykosho: :heart: Sex sells :heykosho: And I'm ok with the guys getting muscular shirtless shots too, thats fine. :lol:
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Uesugi Kenshin
Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:31 am
I'm not really sure how games can't be taken seriously as art AND also be relaxing and fun at the same time... ._.

I mean no one says "people take movies too seriously" in spite of the fact we have whole awards shows for them based on artistic and not entertainment value.
The difference between movies and games is that games are interactive. Movies are strictly for viewership and require no input from the consumer. Games are mostly about the interaction between the consumer and the product. They can't be treated the same way, in my opinion. Whenever they are treated the same way, I become skeptical because then people tend to undermine the interactive element of games, caring more about the "artistic merits." Then we end up with 2 hour visual novels with no concrete gameplay getting positive acclaim despite being arguably shitty as actual games.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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:goodpost:

For games, I really do agree gameplay trumps story, due to the fact its a "game" after all :yes:

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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Also, Shika.

I totally recognize that yeah, there are real world problems that make video games completely and totally trivial. In no way, shape, or form, am I saying a problematic act in a game is somehow as bad as the act in real life. That would be utterly demeaning to real world victims of harassment and tragedy. Hell, fiction and fantasy can be a great way of exploring the sides of humanity we don't approve of.

The point in criticizing media is to help see how media shapes the world we live in, or how the world we live in shapes our media. I feel by doing this we can discover solutions to problems with seemingly no solution. Obviously, it's a roundabout way, but sometimes we can only come to solutions in that manner when a later obvious solution doesn't seem that way... if that makes sense?

People aren't just crying foul because they feel like characters are being mistreated. It's because of the MESSAGE behind it, and what that message can do to the world.

I also realize that this sort of theme wouldn't be out of place in a Fire Emblem game which does deal with very mature themes for a Nintendo game at times. I think the issue is, again, with the message. It's treated as "haha, so funny, girl who likes girls is being trained to like a guy when before she had no apparent interest in them". This translates to, again, the negative messages I mentioned before. Other mature themes were treated with a modicum of respect, as far as I know.

I mean, yeah, I don't think the creators INTENDED to say "lesbians aren't real" or anything. Again, Rhajat (yes that's not-Tharja's English name), is in the game and romanceable. But the fact is a sizable number of people interpreted it like that, so, it should probably be taken into account.
I think we may just have to agree to disagree on the issue of only gameplay mattering in games. I feel video games should consider gameplay first, yeah, but the trappings of it can have just as much impact as a non-interactive work of fiction.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:42 am.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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No chainmail bikini or short shorts no sell :hmph:

:lol: :P

Mew, never knew you were such a yyyuuuuuuugggeee sjw :lol: :P

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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Also sorry to everyone for YET AGAIN turning the Lounge into "Vidya Gaems discourse: the thread". I didn't intend on it. :x
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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I feel like that's just a chosen interpretation though. You yourself have acknowledged that the game does not completely dismiss lesbian relations since there is one in the game as well.

I don't think the message will do anything to the world, because I don't think most people will analyze it as homosexual conversion mixed with date rape AND THEN turn around and find those two themes perfectly acceptable outside of the game. I think most people will either A.) not care about the particular support, B.) not even unlock the particular support (most people probably) or C.) find the particular support questionable and dubious, yet ultimately harmless due to the amazing ability to differentiate fact from fiction (probably the second most amount of people, and I'm in this group personally).

That having been said, I don't find it bad that they decided to alter the text in the English release. As I said, I honestly don't care at all. It's fine with me and hopefully the replacement conversations are good.
Edited by Rance, Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:48 am.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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Uesugi Kenshin
Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:43 am
Also sorry to everyone for YET AGAIN turning the Lounge into "Vidya Gaems discourse: the thread". I didn't intend on it. :x
Rule 63 Sarkassian :lol: :tora:

Sorry couldn't resist :P
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Uesugi Kenshin
Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:43 am
Also sorry to everyone for YET AGAIN turning the Lounge into "Vidya Gaems discourse: the thread". I didn't intend on it. :x
STOP APOLOGIZING!!!!!
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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I really really don't like being referred to as an SJW. It's such a loaded, and yet at the same time, meaningless term that's mostly used to derail conversations.

... but... with how much people throw that word around to mean people who are even remotely liberal, maybe I should just accept the moniker and treat it as a positive.

I also will point out that I enjoy suggestive or naughty clothing at times. I mean... Kasuga's my favorite fictional female (unless Kenshin is also a woman then... well then it's tied), and look at her outfits. I do think, as it makes some people uncomfortable, that I'd be totally okay if she had an outfit change to something more conservative.

I do dislike lewd outfits it when it just doesn't make sense. On like Kasuga, Bayonetta, etc., it's fine. Kasuga is a kunoichi, designed that specific way to embody the characteristics of the femme fatale- which includes sex appeal in addition to intimidation and power. Bayonetta is a woman confident in her sexuality, so her stripping down naked and doing poledance moves makes sense.

.... but then we come to Naotora in Samurai Warriors or Lianshi in her DW7 outfit... :tora: Neither has any reason to be dressed like that. It's just distracting and in a negative way.
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MeowMeow
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YEAH BABY ;)
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@ Mew

I wasn't saying you are like Anita, just that its very similar topics to her... yeah.

Anyway i think that in DLC they could go as risque as possible, since its all optional anyway. :heykosho: Don't like it don't download it :heykosho:
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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top kek at Lianshi
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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I think we might just have entirely different philosophies then. To me it seems like media, including fiction, the internet, anything transmitted in a fashion other than actual human interaction, has ways of changing the way people think. Obviously, fiction and reality are two different things. What's okay in one might not be okay in the other- and yeah, it goes both ways. I'm just saying they very much do influence each other. Media isn't created in a vaccuum.

I'm also not saying this one individual scene would like cause a whole lot of people to go out and be ***** to lesbians. I'm saying it could add to that mindset. It's the same reason a lot of people think rape jokes aren't alright to make. It's lots of small, little perceived voices backing up a person's beliefs rather than one large voice. I understand if you don't quite agree with or follow that line of reasoning however. It took me a bit to come to this way of believing myself.
Anyway. I'm tired.

This was a good conversation. I apologize I started off being so inflammatory.

... I don't apologize for apologizing, however. :P Nyeh heh heh.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:02 am.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Omg pugs! I'm in heaven!!!
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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... pugs you say?
and now the sandman has hit me with a sandbag

GOODNIGHT
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:09 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Lianshi isn't like Naotora at all. She seems confident enough.
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Chalk
Never liked chocolate
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I gave myself a day off. Happiest I've been in months.
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tmma1869
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Ryō Genken
Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:43 am
Lianshi isn't like Naotora at all. She seems confident enough.
*cough* Bust size *cough*

Mix in Taki, Ivy, Honoka, and Litchi.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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NO. Naotora voices her concern about the outfit she's wearing. Lianshi ISN'T. Unless there's a dialogue where she concerned about her outfit she's wearing, that means she is confident enough to wear that outfit.
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tmma1869
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Oooooooooh :D

I was just trying to crack a joke here lol
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DovahChunhuwat
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Soldier
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Ryō Genken
Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:13 am
NO. Naotora voices her concern about the outfit she's wearing. Lianshi ISN'T. Unless there's a dialogue where she concerned about her outfit she's wearing, that means she is confident enough to wear that outfit.
I dunno , her grandpa prolly made that rule
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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And can you prove her grandpa make that rule?
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

Naotora says it at least twice that her grandpa made her wear that armor
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