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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,969,018 Views)
ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Well ****, can't find it.

Anyways, this is how I feel about censorship.

Posted Image
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Mr.Honda
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Going to censor everything :honda:

:beard:
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Throwing down the gauntlet @ swan. :camilla:

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http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/topic/7365871/11/#new
Edited by Rance, Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:22 am.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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My pinky on my right hand is swollen and hell if I know why.

#ChibiGingiproblems
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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I thought Vivian was supposed to be a trans woman and her sisters were bullying her and calling her a man against her wishes.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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I think I'll take a nap until my RP buddy comes online.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:26 am
I thought Vivian was supposed to be a trans woman and her sisters were bullying her and calling her a man against her wishes.
Depends what you mean by trans.

Vivian is a male character who I guess identifies as a girl. The descriptions of the character in game say stuff like "One of the shadow group of three. Seems like a girl but is really a boy."

In the Americuck/Western version they just outright make Vivian a female. That's a pretty big difference.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

One of the bands I want to see the most on the cruise is playing at 3am.

I CAN DO THIS!
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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About LGBT thread, i posted about it there. But if there is one character that can be used their questioned sexuality, to change the whole storyline it'll be Xu Sheng.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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The Wu general? What about him?
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Also yeah, I wouldn't say lesbians are more accepted in Japan. Gay marriage still isn't legal and no one is making active steps to make it so. And a bunch of Japanese people, especially men, don't think lesbians even exist, that it's a schoolgirl "phase" and that women who claim to be are just trying to avoid getting with a guy. They're more "tolerant", but that just means no one thinks it's a sin or that you're bad. There are quite a many who still actively deny the idea of lesbianism being a thing.

Ironically an anime came out lately that I'm told sort of lampoons this national belief of women being incapable of falling in love with other women, that it's just a phase. It seemed to be your typical yuri anime meant to cater to otaku but it turned out to be something quite different. I know, lol Kotaku, but it's the main article I could find about it.
http://kotaku.com/yurikuma-arashi-tackles-the-subject-of-homosexuality-in-1701428985
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dancingswan
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Vivian is trans in the Japanese version. The big part of her character is that she's trying to make her sisters accept her as a girl.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Shikanosuke
Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:30 am
Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:26 am
I thought Vivian was supposed to be a trans woman and her sisters were bullying her and calling her a man against her wishes.
Depends what you mean by trans.

Vivian is a male character who I guess identifies as a girl. The descriptions of the character in game say stuff like "One of the shadow group of three. Seems like a girl but is really a boy."

In the Americuck/Western version they just outright make Vivian a female. That's a pretty big difference.
Yeah but in the end in the Japanese version her sisters do call her a woman, so that leads me to believe saying "actually a boy" was just poor Japanese understanding of what it means to be trans yet again. IDK. In the end it is a Mario game...

Edit: Ae ninja'd me... wegh.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:38 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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Xu Sheng didn't want to submit under Zhou Tai. Sun Quan told Zhou Tai to remove his clothing so he can shows his scars. Xu Sheng then agree to be under Zhou Tai's command.

Now it's just admiration, but scars...quite sexy you know? Do note Zhou Tai flirts the female characters "Do you want to count my battle scars?" In DW7.

Fan(girl)s might interpret it their own way.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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On a societal level, that may be true, but Japanese fiction is filled with yuri relationships and I really doubt anybody would bat an eye at it in KOEI's games. If they made Kai/Kuno more overt or did other lesbo relations, I don't think anybody in Japan would care or react. Male on male relations would be a lot more controversial in my opinion.
I'm not disagreeing with either of you on Vivian. I only brought Vivian up as an example of censorship prior to today.
Edited by Rance, Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:40 am.
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Eni
BOOEH
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Damn that Necrom debut was amazing.
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dancingswan
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Lesbian relationships are only "more accepted" because men find it sexual attractive. And considering the core fanbase in question, most likely straight men, of course they would whine if they saw some dudes making out.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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dancingswan
Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:44 am
Lesbian relationships are only "more accepted" because men find it sexual attractive. And considering the core fanbase in question, most likely straight men, of course they would whine if they saw some dudes making out.
This.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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That's entirely true, but ultimately irrelevant. The reasons don't matter because the point still stands.

However, I think you might be wrong about the core fanbase. A lot of women play these games and a lot of gay men do as well, both in Japan and the West.
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dancingswan
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And I put more accepted in quotes, because more fetishized would be more appropriate tbh
Shikanosuke
Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:48 am
However, I think you might be wrong about the core fanbase. A lot of women play these games and a lot of gay men do as well, both in Japan and the West.
Source? lol

Kidding, but the point is that the majority rules. And the majority, I'm willing to bet, is straight men.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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My point is that we're talking about these relationships' acceptability in the KOEI franchises.

From my point of view, more of the fanbase would accept lesbian relations than homosexual male relations. I actually agree entirely on "why" that would be the case, but the reason "why" doesn't matter because my point still stands. Even if it's for dubious reasons, I think the fanbase would accept lesbian relations far more than yaoi.

Quote:
 
Source? lol


You're posting in it.
Edited by Rance, Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:52 am.
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Angelic Linca
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Blue Sunshine of Wei
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Finally beat the Sand Dragon. Everyone having level 4 weapons helped plus special alchemy items.
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dancingswan
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Oh, then yeah you're right. I wasn't really disagreeing either. We were debating the same point against each other I guess. I was just elaborating the "why".
Shikanosuke
Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:52 am
You're posting in it.
Koeiwarriors is no longer really a hub for all Koei fans. A good chunk of them hate this place. lol I hate Koei, and I post here. Am I an anomaly?
Edited by dancingswan, Wed Feb 3, 2016 1:55 am.
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Ryō Genken
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Disciplined Mind
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@Shika: Sex plays a role again in this one. It's Japan, do you think some equality still achieved there between gender? There's still this mindset that girls would just settle down with boys and taking care of home. Society or should i say males would definitely still think female can't live without males. So even though they are lesbians they'll surely break up later on and marry male so that they can move on.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Actually I do disagree on one assumption you're making though.

You state that the reason why lesbianism is more "acceptable" is because of straight men, but I think straight women find it more acceptable nowadays as well.

Decades ago in the feminist movement, lesbianism was actually a major issue. Betty Friedan called lesbians "The Lavender Menace" and characterized them in entirely negative terms.

That has largely ended imo and I feel that lesbianism and bisexuality is more accepted among women, even those that identify as straight. The feminist movement was largely led by and for lesbians and the mainstream hetero leaders of the movement accepted them into the fold as well. Gloria Steinham for example had much more liberal views on lesbians' role in the movement than Friedan.

That's the history of the movement, but I think that whole mindset has trickled down to much of mainstream society as well. I don't think the female fans (including hetero) of the series would be "icked" out of lesbian relations in the same way that many hetero male fans (myself not included) would be icked out of homosexual male on male relations.
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