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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,961,142 Views)
dancingswan
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Dhvf7KZm8
Already a bop
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Fräulein
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full offense
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?muses pls destroy me
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UpInMahBubble
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Who you calling a cute prince?
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Kyungri coming for SISTAR's spot
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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It's actually one of the things my boss and I agree on in regards to politics. (We're both moderate, but she leans more towards Conservative while I lean more towards Liberalism).

We got into a discussion about things of yesteryear being altered or erased completely because they weren't what we'd think as being politically correct today. I'm all for keeping the content untouched, but adding a disclaimer pointing out how this is a product of it's time, yadada. Sort of like how Looney Tunes and Merry Melodies having the disclaimer at the beginning of the DVD.

To me, erasing history is worse, because you're pretty much denying any wrong was done and ignoring progress.

"BUT IT MAKES ME FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE"

Good, it should. If you cringe at black face or anti-Japanese jokes that were a think during WW2, then you're on the right track as a decent human being. One can say "Well, it's a product of its time" but still acknowledge that it's not, never way, okay. But covering it up or erasing it just feels so much worse to me.

(This is in regards to old stuff. You post this stuff now, and you deserve to get reamed)
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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Doomed to repeat it, as the old saying goes.

You can't judge a person from another time period by your time period's standards and use that as a justification to retroactively villainize or try to discredit their achievements. A lot of our modern medical breakthroughs came from horrible Japanese and German experiments on human prisoners, but what does that have to do with your aunt's cancer treatment?

You can't take back what is done, but you can take the good that came from it and learn from the bad. You can't do either of those if you simply bury it. Every part of human history is bloody, brutal, and very offensive to modern sensibilities.
Edited by Wild Lion, Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:37 pm.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Wild Lion
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:33 pm
Doomed to repeat it, as the old saying goes.

You can't judge a person from another time period by your time period's standards and use that as a justification to retroactively villainize or try to discredit their achievements. A lot of our modern medical breakthroughs came from horrible Japanese and German experiments on human prisoners, but what does that have to do with your aunt's cancer treatment?

You can't take back what is done, but you can take the good that came from it and learn from the bad. You can't do either of those if you simply bury it. Every part of human history is bloody, brutal, and very offensive to modern sensibilities.
Yup. As terrible as things were, we need to keep the history of it intact, acknowledge it, and do better to move forward from there. Do better. Otherwise, what would even have been the point.
Edited by ChibiGingi, Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:57 pm.
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Wild Lion
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By covering up the less palatable parts of history, you are also disregarding the people who had to suffer through it and you'll have nothing to compare to how far we've come

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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Wild Lion
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:53 pm
By covering up the less palatable parts of history, you are also disregarding the people who had to suffer through it and you'll have nothing to compare to how far we've come

EXACTLY.

It's sort of how the WWE handled the Chris Benoit situation. After the double-murder/suicide, they pretty much tried to wipe him out of existence because they didn't want the negative press that came with his name, thus ignoring all of his accomplishments as a professional wrestler and a human being.

Yes, what Chris Benoit did was tragic. But he was a sick man. A very, very sick man, with most of his health problems coming from the industry. He's a prime example of what years of physically pushing yourself for years on end without break, what substance abuse does in the long run, and how messed up wrestling really is behind the scenes, and to erase him from record because of what happened to him and his family is not only disrespectful to a man that did so much for the business, but to those who may be suffering from the same things as him and need the help that he obviously didn't/couldn't get.

Yes, what happened sucked. It's the one event that made me stop watching wrestling outside of highlight reels on YouTube. Don't try to cover this **** up when we can learn from it and improve upon it.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

I was a big fan of Chris Benoit back in the day, and when that happened, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I didn't know much about the backstage workings of the WWE, but did they even try to get him help? They have this substance abuse policy now; iirc, Roman Reigns was hit by that a few months ago, I think Paige, too, so maybe they're working on that?
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Wild Lion
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Yeah, and when they try to dehumanize the people who did bad things as completely irredeemable monsters, and hide away their humanity by claiming it would "glorify" the bad things they did, they're doing more harm than good.

Otherwise decent people can do some horrible things without even knowing it sometimes, and if nobody realizes this or sees it then they will go on believing that it could never happen to them because they're not the cartoonish monsters that those people are portrayed as.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Katatonia
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:20 pm
I was a big fan of Chris Benoit back in the day, and when that happened, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I didn't know much about the backstage workings of the WWE, but did they even try to get him help? They have this substance abuse policy now; iirc, Roman Reigns was hit by that a few months ago, I think Paige, too, so maybe they're working on that?
Sad thing is, it's not just a substance abuse problem. It plays a part, yes, absolutely. There's enough proof that it played a factor in what happened, however, there's still a lot of blame to be placed on the WWE's shoulders in regards to working conditions for their wrestlers.

Despite being "fake" (scripted is the better word), these performers are put through the ringer in regards to how often they are expected to work. There's a lot of risks involved in the sport. If you blotch a move, you could seriously injured yourself or your opponent (for minor cases, see Bill Goldberg ripping La Parka's arm out of socket; for major cases, look up what happened to Perro Aguayo Jr). The outcomes of the matches and spots are called, but they still perform said spots, and those are very real (it's a two person show: one does the spot, which is the offensive, and the other base, which is the one receiving the blow. If someone doesn't base a spot good, both men could be hurt.)

So, imagine doing all this stuff, all this running around, choppings, spotting, day in and day out, with no off season. If you're hurt, you work through the pain. There were literal cases, especially in WCW, where wrestlers would have to put off corrective surgery or work with a sprained ankle, because if they didn't work, they either didn't get paid or they got reduced pay (depends on how much pull they had backstage).

Now, you're doing this, with NO off season. Unlike football, or baseball, or basketball, there's no off season for wrestlers. In order to get chances to win belts, you have to be active, you have to draw, and even being out a week or a month could put them in a situation where they're left behind.

So now imagine you're working through an injury, but you're drawing, you're making good money, but you are literally falling apart. You can't keep up. To keep your spot, you got to do something about the pain, so what do you do? You take the pills, you take the steroids because your competitor is doing the same and when one person does it, you either take it or risk being left behind.

Until Benoit's death, this was just par for the course. There were several wrestlers who kind of mentioned it, but it was never truly addressed or acknowledged. Even after Eddie Guerrero's death (caused by heart failure from years of drug abuse for the sheer amount of physical pain he was in, and even though he got clean in his last few years, it came back to bite him in the ass), it was a thing they knew about, but didn't really focus on. Benoit's death pretty much opened pandora's box, which is why they now have the Wellness Program set in place.

I mean, you can't run a business if all your players are dropping dead from drug abuse or performance-related injuries.
Edited by ChibiGingi, Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:37 pm.
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UpInMahBubble
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Who you calling a cute prince?
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Posted Image

Only missed out 4 people total. Not bad for my first playthrough in like 6 years
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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Well this is a reason I think banning steroids and other PEDs from professional wrestling is stupid.

It's not a competitive sport, they don't get unfair advantages from them, what they get is the ability to recover from their matches faster and resist injury above and beyond what any normal human could. This is why you didn't see so many injuries back in the 80s and 90s, even though the danger of the shows kept ramping up starting from Macho Man piledriving a guy through a table in Memphis.

If steroids were allowed in wrestling, the promotion's medical staff could ensure they are using them safely instead of trying to bust them and put them out of a career for using something they frankly need.

Hollywood actors abuse the hell out of steroids, even The Rock started hitting them hard after he left WWE, and nobody cares, but if the same actors use the same drugs on a live stage instead of a movie suddenly it's a problem.
Edited by Wild Lion, Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:46 pm.
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UpInMahBubble
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Who you calling a cute prince?
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Maybe it's just to stop them from showing up under the influence, like that infamous Jeff Hardy moment :thinking:
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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That wasn't steroids that Jeff was hopped up on that night :lol:
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UpInMahBubble
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Who you calling a cute prince?
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That was my only guess anyway :lol:

Speaking of wrasslin when are they gonna reveal the 2k19 roster. If Kairi Sane makes it in with Asuka I'm buying :itsuki:
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

UpInMahBubble
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:54 pm
Maybe it's just to stop them from showing up under the influence, like that infamous Jeff Hardy moment :thinking:
That was one of the worst "matches" I've ever seen. Can't even call it a match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uTCHS8KHdE

what a mess

__

I don't know if the roster has been revealed yet, maybe they're waiting to add Rhonda Rousey? All I know is that AJ Styles is on the front cover doing his best Power Rangers impression
Edited by Katatonia, Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:10 pm.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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I watched that happen. It was so bad, man...
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

I'm way too happy about this new Warriors Orochi 4 promotion

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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Rey: TRUST FALL.

Juvi and Kidman: What?
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Wild Lion
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Glad he put the mask back on :lol: no one could take that babyface seriously
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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Wild Lion
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:37 pm
Glad he put the mask back on :lol: no one could take that babyface seriously
Oh, no, son... let me tell you something, something they don't show on TV.

That boy? Rey-Rey? Oscar Gutierrez?

He's got himself a potty mouth. I mean, he drops f-bombs, says things like p*ssy, cracks sexual innuendo and gay jokes like it's no one's business outside of official interviews.

All of this while unmasked, forever looking like he's ****in' 14 or something.

Link: Personal camcorder footage from his trip to Japan in early 90s

(WARNING: Lots of walking, lots of Spanish, no subtitles, Chris Jericho being the awesome MOFO that he is, and use of f-bombs and the word *** at some point.)
(cut to 6:10 for Jericho)

Edit: Also, 9:04, the bit with him and Damien kills me.
Edited by ChibiGingi, Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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I keep forgetting I set that picture of Xin Xianying as my phone background and it makes me happy every time I unlock my phone
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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I should be sleeping.
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Angelic Linca
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Blue Sunshine of Wei
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My phone background is still Top Madam Puss

Lock screen is Chanmi

Spoiler: click to toggle

Wishing I could have it alternate because of sweetheart Seolhyun :heart:
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