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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,978,677 Views)
dancingswan
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Vocab may seem easy, but the sentence structure, grammar, etc. etc. takes a really really long time to actually build up to a point where you can naturally translate, and understand with little time.
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Erminaz
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Emperor's Retainer
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:07 am
Non-latin based languages tend to be harder to learn for people who use latin-based languages, and vice-versa.

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The Foreign Service Institute at the United States Department of State rated 63 languages based on how difficult they are for English speakers to learn. They concluded that Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, and Korean were the most difficult, with Japanese typically being the hardest of the five to learn.
It's probably to do with learning the writing script of those languages that makes it harder.

If english speakers are learning another "western" language, they haven't got to go through learning a new alphabet.

It's not so much to do with sentence structure, Northern European and Southern European languages tend to use different sentence structure to eachother.

Maltese is fairly similar to Arabic, but because Maltese is written in Roman script it wasn't particularly hard for my grandfather to learn English.

Might depend on the person though, some people are naturally gifted at languages.
Edited by Erminaz, Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:12 am.
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Kuran
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:10 am
Vocab may seem easy, but the sentence structure, grammar, etc. etc. takes a really really long time to actually build up to a point where you can naturally translate, and understand with little time.
This seriously. I can only translate Kindergarten Korean.
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Angelic Linca
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:nope: I don't approve of that.
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dancingswan
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I'm not an American-born citizen, so English came second to me. So while the vocab came easy, everything else took years to properly learn. And even then, I still mess up.
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Mr. Crusader
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MCG
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:08 am
Crusader14
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:06 am
Arminius
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:04 am
Make sure Zhou Yin isn't listening in on this conversation, he might think it's too X-rated for anyone under the age of 30
:XD
MCG
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:05 am
^
Why?
He said something about not wanting his kids to watch porn and be involved in sexual activity regardless of sexual education or not,
I agree with him :hmph: .


Of course you do.

Vampyre Prince Zero
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:08 am
Crusader14
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:02 am
Vampyre Prince Zero
Tue Apr 1, 2014 12:57 am
Crusader14
Tue Apr 1, 2014 12:53 am
I cannot believe how easy it is to learn hiragana. Seriously...I've nearly memorized it all and it's only been an hour or two.
Oh you say that now. Then when you get into sentence structure ~ lols ~ '3')


But learning the hiragana by itself is easy. I don't think I need to know how to do sentence structure, but I at least want to know how to translate japanese characters. If I need sentence structure to do so, then I'll learn that too, but at the moment I just want to know enough to be able to translate Japanese. So that way, just in case Koei stops translating their games, I can just import every time as I'll have a good enough understanding of the language to be able to learn it.

EDIT: Plus I can figure out what the sentence structure is 95 percent of the time without proper instruction on translating and utilizing sentence structure and whatnot.
Just learning hirigana isn't enough to translate a sentence until you know some words in a sentence. Even if you were to be able to translate it, it would most likely look like this,

Konnichiwa, watashi wa Kuran-kun.

That's simple but if you were to translate something else like

Daijo desuka?
Musukashii ne...

Then you might say it differently. Korean works the same way. I can translate stuff fine but I sometimes can't find the meaning of a sentence because I just don't know the sentence structure or most of the words.

Don't think it's that easy to learn a language. It took me 5 years before I had to stop learning ESL.

EDIT: Wow I thought Cantonese would be hard...but yeah Japanese is hard to learn. I find Korean easier than Japanese.


I'll figure something out.

Quote:
 
Musukashii ne...


That means, "Strange...."
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Kuran
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:11 am
I'm not an American-born citizen, so English came second to me. So while the vocab came easy, everything else took years to properly learn. And even then, I still mess up.
I'm sorta like you. I was born here but most of my life is speaking Cantonese at home.

I still eff up because there's so many words that I guess the meanings of...and turns out that's not what it means at all. I hear words but the real meanings don't come to mind.

@Crusader: It means "It's difficult" for the most part. With asian languages there's more meanings than one for each words.
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dancingswan
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Forgot to mention, I was immersed into the language. Meaning, I moved to America with no English at all, went to an English speaking school, lived in an English speaking community. So not only was I learning it from books, but I was learning it from people around me.

It's gonna take a really long time to learn a language, and be comfortable enough with it to properly train it.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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what does "Yuranoshi nei" mean?
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Mr. Crusader
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:11 am
I'm not an American-born citizen, so English came second to me. So while the vocab came easy, everything else took years to properly learn. And even then, I still mess up.


I think I can do it :) And I'm pretty familiarized with everything other than Japanese vocab as I sometimes have had to watch toku and anime without subtitles, and the only thing there was japanese captions. So that has came naturally to me, and I've been watching toku and grammar for at least 3 years, 5 to 25 percent of those years I watched it non subbed. Not to mention the toku and anime I did watch subbed helped me to understand that stuff further because I could translate what they were saying using the subs that were provided, and I'm familiar with dialects and Japanese grammar as well. I've been studying Japanese since last October IIRC.
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Erminaz
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With Chinese and Japanese I'm guessing it's hard because of the script. Isn't it that the symbols don't tell you how the word sounds, it just represents a word? That would catch westerners out.

Question for Koreans - isn't the Korean script based on syllables? so it's easier to learn?
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children learn languages really quickly and on average it takes a child 4 or so years of being ccomepletely immersed in said language to be able to speak it fluently.
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The Outsider
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This conversation is too deep and confusing for me.
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dancingswan
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Vampyre Prince Zero
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:15 am
dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:11 am
I'm not an American-born citizen, so English came second to me. So while the vocab came easy, everything else took years to properly learn. And even then, I still mess up.
I'm sorta like you. I was born here but most of my life is speaking Cantonese at home.

I still eff up because there's so many words that I guess the meanings of...and turns out that's not what it means at all. I hear words but the real meanings don't come to mind.
I still find it uncomfortable to speak English with my actual family. Unless we have company or something like that, we speak Korean. I naturally think in Korean as well. So it is so frustrating at times, especially when I want to use a word, but there isn't a proper English translation. :lol:
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Mr. Crusader
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@Crusader: It means "It's difficult" for the most part. With asian languages there's more meanings than one for each words.[/quote]

Oh. Whoops :lol: Thanks for the correction.

dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:16 am
Forgot to mention, I was immersed into the language. Meaning, I moved to America with no English at all, went to an English speaking school, lived in an English speaking community. So not only was I learning it from books, but I was learning it from people around me.

It's gonna take a really long time to learn a language, and be comfortable enough with it to properly train it.


I don't care if it's going to take long. While I've given up on goals in the past, such as at first wanting to become a GM but then just wanting my name to be blue to wanting to learn how to draw but eventually quitting it in the end,, that's not happening this time.
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Kuran
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:16 am
Forgot to mention, I was immersed into the language. Meaning, I moved to America with no English at all, went to an English speaking school, lived in an English speaking community. So not only was I learning it from books, but I was learning it from people around me.

It's gonna take a really long time to learn a language, and be comfortable enough with it to properly train it.
Again this. ^
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Actually 3 years is the minimum number of years that you have to learn a language to have a decent conversation and read in that language. This is true.

@Arminius: Yes Korean was designed easier to learn. It was so everyone in the country can read and not only the rich people. Creator's name was Yi SeJong (이세종) 이 is also used as Lee surnames.

It is easier to learn to at least write it.

EDIT: I'm not Korean. I just learn it and that's what i've learned.
Edited by Kuran, Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:21 am.
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i said same thing about elarning to paly guitar at fourteen
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Mr. Crusader
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Arminius
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:17 am
With Chinese and Japanese I'm guessing it's hard because of the script. Isn't it that the symbols don't tell you how the word sounds, it just represents a word? That would catch westerners out.



Not if you have the symbols translated in english on flash cards :sly:


Jäger
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:17 am
children learn languages really quickly and on average it takes a child 4 or so years of being ccomepletely immersed in said language to be able to speak it fluently.


I think I can do it.

MCG
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:18 am
This conversation is too deep and confusing for me.


:pat:
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Kuran
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:19 am
I still find it uncomfortable to speak English with my actual family. Unless we have company or something like that, we speak Korean. I naturally think in Korean as well. So it is so frustrating at times, especially when I want to use a word, but there isn't a proper English translation. :lol:
Me too to be honest. Speaking english is weird. People say that my Cantonese is very good for a CBC.

I always get the "I can't English moments either"

Ugh i had it in a mock interview where i was getting marked and I couldn't think of a sentence in english Dx I didn't get docked much marks luckily.
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Mr. Crusader
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Jäger
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:21 am
i said same thing about elarning to paly guitar at fourteen
But it never happened right? Well, I'm not like you dude.
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Crusader14
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:22 am
Jäger
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:21 am
i said same thing about elarning to paly guitar at fourteen
But it never happened right? Well, I'm not like you dude.
prove it.
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Erminaz
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dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:19 am
Vampyre Prince Zero
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:15 am
dancingswan
Tue Apr 1, 2014 1:11 am
I'm not an American-born citizen, so English came second to me. So while the vocab came easy, everything else took years to properly learn. And even then, I still mess up.
I'm sorta like you. I was born here but most of my life is speaking Cantonese at home.

I still eff up because there's so many words that I guess the meanings of...and turns out that's not what it means at all. I hear words but the real meanings don't come to mind.
I still find it uncomfortable to speak English with my actual family. Unless we have company or something like that, we speak Korean. I naturally think in Korean as well. So it is so frustrating at times, especially when I want to use a word, but there isn't a proper English translation. :lol:
That's understandable though. If you grew up speaking Korean for a while before you learned English Korean will always be what you're more comfortable with.

My Grandfather was always more comfortable speaking Maltese with his Maltese relatives, decades after he moved here :lol:
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Mr. Kamikaze
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i cant even learn to tie a tie :uh:
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i wear ties so rarely that it seems like a rather useless skill
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dancingswan
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The worst part was when I was in middle school, my dad made me take French. So not only was I still rusty with my English, I had to put French on top of it.
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