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KOEI Warriors Lounge; Discuss what's on your mind.
Topic Started: Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 am (5,974,699 Views)
Eni
BOOEH
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LittleMonsterSakura
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:40 pm
Is it worse than Cao Cao's?
Well considering Cao Cao just took Xu while Liu Bei went full "KILL WU" mode.

Then yes, it is worse.
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Angelic Linca
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Blue Sunshine of Wei
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Eni
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:41 pm
LittleMonsterSakura
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:40 pm
Is it worse than Cao Cao's?
Well considering Cao Cao just took Xu while Liu Bei went full "KILL WU" mode.

Then yes, it is worse.
I always hate that poor Ma Liang died because of Liu Bei.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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the way they portray Cao Cao in the game has very little to do with his father's death, he uses it more as an excuse to attack someone he wanted to attack anyway. In that regard, the way it is presented, it is different.

Whereas Liu Bei was straight up betrayed and had his brother's killed over it.
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LegendaryDragonWarrior
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Lu Bu is maybe a fool, but at least he cared about his daughter. He wanted her to live
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Eni
BOOEH
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Mr. Kamikaze
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:43 pm
the way they portray Cao Cao in the game has very little to do with his father's death, he uses it more as an excuse to attack someone he wanted to attack anyway. In that regard, the way it is presented, it is different.

Whereas Liu Bei was straight up betrayed and had his brother's killed over it.
But it still clear by the playables in that stage that they're seeking retribution for Tao Qian's involvement in Cao Dad's death.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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@LDW - problem with that is they tried to humanize him at the last possible minute. It should've been played up way earlier and far more consistent than that.
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Eni
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Specially Cao Ren, that adorable noble walking fridge.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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Yeah, but Cao Cao has been portrayed, lately, as a dude who'd just do whatever he had to in order to get what he wanted. THEY might've been all about avenging Cao Dad, but Cao Cao probably wasn't (at least, not entirely). Man took advantage of it to get what he ultimately wanted, which was Xu and (hopefully) Liu Bei done away with.
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Angelic Linca
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Mr. Kamikaze
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:43 pm
the way they portray Cao Cao in the game has very little to do with his father's death, he uses it more as an excuse to attack someone he wanted to attack anyway. In that regard, the way it is presented, it is different.

Whereas Liu Bei was straight up betrayed and had his brother's killed over it.
Liu Bei took Jing, wouldn't give it back to Wu, his ally.

Liu Bei bribed Wu with part of Jing, the territory he took, so they would attack He Fei.

Liu Bei let Guan Yu screw up alliance with Wu. The marriage proposal and stealing of supplies from Wu.

Liu Bei Shu-ified Sun Shangxiang.


Wu was acting in best interests of Wu when they attacked Jing and killed Guan Yu.

Liu Bei didn't have that problem of betrayal when he stole Xu from Cao Cao, did he?
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Mr. Kamikaze
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We're not talking about Xu though, we're talking about Liu Bei's hyper rage after his brother's were killed which led him to attack Wu.

I'm all for Wu, and I think they were justified in their attack. Let's not pretend they were saints though. Liu Bei was betrayed, Guan Yu might've brought it upon himself for being a dick, but that doesn't change what happened.
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Eni
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If anything most of the game implies it was all caused by Zhuge Liang's plotting and Guan Yu's dickery for the sake of "Liu Bei".

It would be not out of character at all for DW's Liu Bei to have given Jing back.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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Finally, every one is gone. I am home alone for the weekend.

Some peace and quiet.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

Anime convention tomorrow with Vic Manginajijjaboo and a Satanic Mass next Saturday. Oooh boy.
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Eni
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And SSX's thing is entirely her fault for craving some of that Benevolence.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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Eni
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:52 pm
If anything most of the game implies it was all caused by Zhuge Liang's plotting and Guan Yu's dickery for the sake of "Liu Bei".

It would be not out of character at all for DW's Liu Bei to have given Jing back.
Yeah, the game mostly have Liu Bei not involved with any of that, he shows up at the end when its all said and done and is pissed off about his brother being killed by his supposed allies. Understandable, as far as im concerned.
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Angelic Linca
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But Liu Bei betrayed Wu's trust when he basically told Sun Quan "no" when Quan asked for Jing Province back.

Heck Liu Bei betrayed the peace Wu had when he fled to Wu after Changban, then forced then to fight Cao Cao at Chibi.
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Eni
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He did not force anyone.

And during Chibi the one acting for Liu Bei was, suprise, Zhuge Liang.
I will completely hold Liu Bei guilty for Cheng Du though. Koei really does not know how to handle that incident.
Edited by Eni, Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:56 pm.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

Wu planned on using SSX to indirectly kill Liu Bei anyway
Edited by Katatonia, Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:57 pm.
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Eni
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Oh but do have in mind I'm just talking in regards of my interpretation of the game Liu Bei, not the real historical one.
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Angelic Linca
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Eni
Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:55 pm
He did not force anyone.

And during Chibi the one acting for Liu Bei was, suprise, Zhuge Liang.
I will completely hold Liu Bei guilty for Cheng Du though. Koei really does not know how to handle that incident.
I can agree on that. Zhuge Liang being the one to draw Wu into the conflict.

Worse is he tried to use the Qiao Sisters as a reason.

As for Chengdu, I felt bad for poor Liu Zhang. Pang Tong's death as well.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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Wu was never all buddy buddy with Shu and Liu Bei. From the beginning they wanted to get rid of him. Zhou Yu's two kingdom thing, the plot with Shangxiang, the way Jing was handled with Lu Su having to go settle all that down.

Wu was always looking for a reason.

Wu and Shu never got along.

(game wise, btw. But probably historically as well)
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Angelic Linca
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All Liu Bei's fault though.

It all started when he let Lu Bu stay at Xiapi.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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You know, I say a lot of bad stuff about Shu, but I like most of the characters. It's just the main ones that bother me. Don't like: Sworn bros., Zhuge Liang, the male Guanbabbies, and Jiang Wei (though a friend of mine really likes him so I like him a bit more than some others here I suppose). Oh and Ma Chao, 'cause I love Wang Yi.

Late Shu is p. good. Liu Shan, Xingcai, Zhao Yun, Wei Yan, Yueying, Ma Dai, Yinping, Sanniang, Zhang JYB... Sad Pang Tong had to die...

Edit: Eh... I kinda like Zhang Fei I guess. Guan Yu tickles my nerd anger because of how overrated he is in-game.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:04 pm.
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Angelic Linca
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I miss DW3's Jian Wei. :okuni:
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Mr. Kamikaze
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I like most characters for what they are.

I actually don't think I truly dislike any character. They all serve their purpose...or don't, in which case they aren't really in the way anyway so I dont know why I'd dislike them at all.
there is a wad of cash on my entertainment center that I cant use cause its for my aunt's taxi to get her to and back from her daycare thing every day...

Its only like 30 dollars in $1 bills, but when you roll it all up its just so enticing.
Edited by Mr. Kamikaze, Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:06 pm.
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