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Should we prevent suicide attempts?
Topic Started: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:12 pm (2,019 Views)
Shogun
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Do you believe that people should be free to commit suicide without interference? If not, why? Is there a real solution to suicide? I thought I should bring this up because there was someone who threatened to kill himself in a message board a while back and wanted a good reason for him to stay alive, this has happened countless times, one person was taunted and teased which caused him to kill himself, sticking a knife through his throat.

So is it right to prevent suicide attempts? Do you think the person caught attempting to do so should be peacefully convinced and taken care of or sent to a nuthouse to prevent him from ever doing it again? Would you agree that it is a short-sighted, cowardly, as well as irrational and selfish thing to do?
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SnowMan
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When I read the topic title I was like "WTF? Of course you should stop someone from commiting suicide!" Good way to grab attention with your title, lol.

But seriously, I think that if we can stop someone from killing himself then we should. I mean, not stopping them might just make them feel even worse than before and push them completely over the edge. I know that if I was going to kill myself and people were like "Meh, we don't care. Go do it." I'd be even more depressed and I might gather the courage to do it, because you realize that nobody cares about you and your death will not make any impact whatsoever in the world.

And sometimes when you show you care enough about a person to save their lives, it takes the suicidal tendencies away. They won't want to kill themselves if they have people in the world who care about them enough to want them to live.

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And as for suicide itself, I used to be one of those people who were like you and said "suicide is cowardly, I feel no remorse for suicide victims, etc". But then I started in with depression and thoughts of suicide (I'm better now BTW). IMO you can't really make a fair opinion about the subject until you've felt what suicidal people felt. So I no longer think suicide is selfish and cowardly. But I do believe that its wrong and that if a person feels like they want to die, they should talk to someone immediately so those thoughts can leave them.
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Shogun
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I agree that we should prevent them, but how far should we go to do so? Would you actually force someone to keep his life?
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Manji
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Shogun
Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:36 pm
I agree that we should prevent them, but how far should we go to do so? Would you actually force someone to keep his life?
The only way this could be achieved would be through some sort of solitary confinement. And who is going to come up with the time and money to supervise every single individual who threatens to kill themselves?

The truth is, many countries provide suicide prevention centers, but they have very little effect on deterring people from committing suicide. Since their creation in the US, the amount of suicide attempts has not declined significantly. Suicide prevention centers/hotlines only really help people who DO NOT want to to go through with suicide. So honestly there is not much we can do aside from the ludicrous notion mentioned in my first paragraph.

Also, suicide used to illegal in the UK. Anyone who killed themselves would not have their financial assets passed on to their family, but again, people still killed themselves.
It is impossible to prevent, and I think that as your life is yours alone, you can choose to do with it as you wish.

To kill yourself, I believe you have to fear life more than death. If that is truly the case, then I don't see why we should judge or deny someone that option.
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Godlikephoenix
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Of course there is more than one reason why one would kill themselves...for instance what Manji was on about, with the financial aspect. Some people who's families might be struggling financially might take out a life insurance plan and then with their death it could help them a lot more...but ti be honest, that is the most stupidest thing that someone could do...because most of the money would be spent on the funeral, and the emotional trauma would just not be worth it.

The only time that I feel it would be appropriate for someone to take their own life, is when someone has a terminal illness, and cant take the pain anymore...that to me would only be the right time...all the rest can be overcome, like mental problems, financial, etc.
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Musou
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Call this an unfair generalisation if you must but generally, those who make a whole song and dance about killing themselves are generally looking for attention and wouldn't actually go through with it. It's those who don't say anything that usually commit suicide. This isn't always the case though.

Whether or not we should prevent suicide attempts depends on the circumstances for me. If it's a result of depression or whatever, I think we should provide counselling and whatnot for that person and try to get them to reconsider.

If it's a question of a 'mercy killing' of someone who is severely ill, or somebody wanting to turn their life support off then I believe it is totally their choice - especially if there's a great deal of pain involved.

I do not believe that we should force anybody to live if they do not want to. It's their life not ours. Sure, try and prevent it if possible but if it means force I don't think that's right. A person should have some degree of choice in everything. Definitely do not put them in a straight jacket and a white padded room just because you don't agree with their choice. If they want to die that badly, why not let them?
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Fayt
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Musou
Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:56 am
If it's a question of a 'mercy killing' of someone who is severely ill, or somebody wanting to turn their life support off then I believe it is totally their choice - especially if there's a great deal of pain involved.
I agree, if one was suicidal due to incurable health problems then one should be entitled to make that choice, I know it's more down the euthanasia track, but still, it's just bull sh!t.

We put down animals with incurable illnesses, but humans don't have that option. :/

I certainly hope I'm never directly in a situation where one is suicidal, but it's clearly circumstantial. Depending on why one is in such a state would depend on how to act. For example, I actually have a family member who was seriously on the track to suicide - they had the medication to mix & overdose to do the job - due to depression. Thankfully another family member picked up on it before it was too late and stopped them, depression is something that can be cured after all. In that type of situation I think you should do just about anything to stop one from taking their own life.
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Daosiying
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Not gonna respond to this one really, but if they're gonna commit suicide by train, STOP THEM NOW.

While I may be on the fence on suicide, suicide by jumping in front of a train is a real jackass move.

You die horribly, your family has to pay the government or city for the crap you just pulled, and everyone on that train or going to take that train is now that much more late because you had to be emotional about it.
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Shogun
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And as for suicide itself, I used to be one of those people who were like you and said "suicide is cowardly, I feel no remorse for suicide victims, etc".

I still believe it is a selfish, cowardly and irrational move. If they do not know how to properly live their lives and face their problems, than they have no place in this world.
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IMO you can't really make a fair opinion about the subject until you've felt what suicidal people felt.

It doesn't matter what they feel, the point is that they are not able to overcome their fears and lack the courage to confront their problems. There is always something or someone to turn to.
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Ganheim
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Quote:
 
Do you think the person caught attempting to do so should be peacefully convinced and taken care of or sent to a nuthouse to prevent him from ever doing it again? Would you agree that it is a short-sighted, cowardly, as well as irrational and selfish thing to do?
This is a hostile series of questions, and pretty clearly shows that you've already made your decision and have no intention to give dialog any chance. Should there be room in local social networks to aid people who suffer from depression? Sure, but sending such a person to a "nuthouse" is only a condemnation of him in order to make you feel better about yourself. By avoiding death, you leave an opening to tell yourself that you've done something good even if you haven't done a thing to fix the situation that drove him to that point. People don't seek suicide until they fear death more than they fear life, I would argue that in a metaphysical sense, people die before they ever try to die physically.

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I used to be one of those people who were like you and said "suicide is cowardly, I feel no remorse for suicide victims, etc"
I've heard this a number of times, and always from people who didn't really know what suicide and the circumstances surrounding it are.

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they should talk to someone immediately so those thoughts can leave them.
The issue is that, for the people who are actually in danger, they don't have that option. Sometimes there are no people (much less ones you can trust) to go to, but the question becomes murkier when there are people but you don't think they can be trusted. What's your opinion on this situation?

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To kill yourself, I believe you have to fear life more than death.
Based on my observations, that would be correct. That also relates to my earlier statement that people are dead metaphorically before they even consider suicide.

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Call this an unfair generalisation if you must but generally, those who make a whole song and dance about killing themselves are generally looking for attention
I think this is true. When I was in training (back when I was enlisted), another trainee found out he'd be going to a war zone and said 'I'll kill myself!' Due to a lack of people, I ended up acting as a designated guard of sorts to keep him from doing so and I can tell you with 100% certainty that he didn't want to die, but by a few days I wanted to kill him. Years later, when I tried, I actually did want to die and didn't tell anybody (obviously that didn't work and I moved on).

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Definitely do not put them in a straight jacket and a white padded room just because you don't agree with their choice. If they want to die that badly, why not let them?
If somebody wants to die that much, the people around them (the ones who'd have the ability to do something about it) need to step back and ask themselves 'why', because the people in power tend to contribute to the miserable circumstances that drive people to depression.

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It doesn't matter what they feel,
This pretty clearly speaks the truth behind your thoughts, also betraying that you don't care enough to reconsider your position. If that's the case, why bother asking a question in the first place?
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Shogun
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I see you pretty much just nitpicketed my post and messed up my point.

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This is a hostile series of questions, and pretty clearly shows that you've already made your decision and have no intention to give dialog any chance. Should there be room in local social networks to aid people who suffer from depression? Sure, but sending such a person to a "nuthouse" is only a condemnation of him in order to make you feel better about yourself.

If sending them to a nuthouse after they fail to change their decision is the solution, than they should be sent to the nuthouse. It doesn't make me feel better that people this weak are left alone like this, they should be taken care of.
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This pretty clearly speaks the truth behind your thoughts, also betraying that you don't care enough to reconsider your position. If that's the case, why bother asking a question in the first place?

Again trying to dodge my other points by deliberately nitpicking and providing me with irrelevant strawman arguments. Read the rest of the sentence and try to comprehend what I'm implying exactly, good luck figuring it out.
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Manji
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People will seek out help if they truly want it, either by talking to someone about their thoughts about suicide or by actually attempting suicide (it is true some people attempt suicide by using LESS LETHAL means to kill themselves, e.g. wrist cutting or "gassing" themselves when they KNOW someone is on their way to visit them soon and find them, etc...) These individuals are actually trying to get help because their intent was not kill themselves but to get someone to pay attention to their problems.

Individuals who are usually successful in committing suicide use more lethal methods, such as shooting or hanging themselves, typically do not divulge their suicidal thoughts with anyone...so how are we going to know they want to kill themselves anyway?
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Burning Skulls
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I think that people should do everything they can to prevent it. Everyone has a life ahead of them and there is no reason to waste that.

I've convinced two of my friends out of suicide, one who I believe truly would have done it and one who I think was just extraoridinarily depressed. The one who I thought would've done it I just noticed they were depressed and talked to them, the other came to me.

So either way I think its important to talk to people close to you about being depressed in general because you don't know what they're thinking in their head. But even if they don't seem depressed its possible they are suicidal so you never know.

I also think most people consider suicide at least once in their life and whether or not you choose to do it depends on your support system. If someone cares enough about you, they'll notice your depression and try to help.

So if someone does notice a friend is depressed or suicidal they should do their best to help out.
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AK049
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I agree. While we still can, we should give the suicidal a helping hand. :mellow:
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Ganheim
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AK049
Wed May 6, 2009 5:16 am
While we still can, we should give the suicidal a helping hand. :mellow:
Agreed. Since that seems to be a fairly agreed-upon sentiment, what do the readers of this thread think about suicide and its causes? What's at the root of the reason(s) why people fear life more than death?

Based on my observations and searches, it seems to occur more around people with a smaller, more restricted social network. When there are few (or none) that the individual feels they can trust, and that feeling of isolation continues to cut off other avenues of normal living (and perception thereof) until they feel there is nothing left to look forward to living to (whether or not there is).
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Claus
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God-Like Phoenix
Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:53 am
Of course there is more than one reason why one would kill themselves...for instance what Manji was on about, with the financial aspect. Some people who's families might be struggling financially might take out a life insurance plan and then with their death it could help them a lot more...but ti be honest, that is the most stupidest thing that someone could do...because most of the money would be spent on the funeral, and the emotional trauma would just not be worth it.

but with life insurance, if its suicide, you get no money, so its just a waste of life.

suicide is so sad, but really, and i know this is really mean to say, but its really just for a message, and attention, like you see and hear about these people who jump off of highway bridges and they expect not to be seen? i think at least a quarter of suicide attempts are nothing more than craving for attention
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lmay19
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Answer to the title: yes. Suicide is murder. Attempt at suicide should be treated as attempt at murder. And if you succeed then your body should go on death row.
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SnowMan
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When I was struggling with thoughts of suicide, it wasn't so much fearing life more than death as it was believing that life was bad and that death wouldn't be; it would be nothing (I'm an athiest BTW). Maybe you could say that they're the same thing, I don't know.

I know that having people in my life that cared about me was a big factor in my NOT trying the act. I had the thought that my death wouldn't cause a ripple on the world, it would be insignificant. But I also knew that the people in my life, however few there are, would be devastated by my death and that killing myself would cause pain on my loved ones that I couldn't let happen. I don't know what my current state of mind would be if I didn't have that support system.

(Sorry if I went a little off-topic, it's just therapeutic for me to talk about my situation.)
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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HappyMomOfNone
Fri May 8, 2009 5:46 am
Answer to the title: yes. Suicide is murder. Attempt at suicide should be treated as attempt at murder. And if you succeed then your body should go on death row.
That doesn't make any sense rhetorically. How can suicide be murder when killing yourself is not the killing of another as per definition of murder? If murder and suicide were of the same definition, there would be only one term.

I really don't see how you should approach suicide as you would with murder. With murder, it's more of a case that the person dislikes others and doesn't know how to put up with the person's existence other than by killing them. Or in other cases it could be pure apathy of human life and that they'd rather benefit from killing them than adopt a non-killing morality.

Whereas in suicide, it's more of an issue of the person themselves than what they perceive of other people. In the case of suicide, the person is more concerned about their own issues and is unable to cope with their personal problems... How minor or major they are varies. With suicide, you have to focus on the issues they can't cope with rather than the people they can't stand or the methods they have to gain something.

They're both two different sort of psychologies and treating them in the same way would be ridiculous.
Edited by DrewTheDude-Dono, Sun May 10, 2009 6:41 pm.
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AK049
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I agree that suicide is distinct from murder, yet they somehow share similar moral corruptions. :mellow:
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Tempest
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Depends on the person.
Some people should kill themselves for things they do.

But really everyone deserves a 2nd chance so I say yes. Save the suicidal.
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ChibiGingi
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Well, I will come out as being heartless, but if someone killing themselves inconveniences others, then we should definitely stop them. People who chose to end their lives by jumping in front of trains/cars/moving traffic can cause accidents, possibly hurting/killing innocent people, or cause people to be late to work (and in an economic mess that we're all in now, a boss may not be so forgiving about a worker being late).

I hate to say this, but if you're going to kill yourself, do it in the comfort of your own home or away from other people. Don't cause a 20 car pile up just because you can't stand living anymore. That's just cruel and selfish to hurt others like that.
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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A person with a strong will, achieves everything.

If this person truly wants to end his life, then he will succeed.

Most of those so called suicides end up being a suicide attempt.
They throw themselves in front of cars, slit their arms or take sleeping pills.

And most of them fail. If they truly want to kill themselves, they ram a knife into their heart or blow their head off with a gun.

So if someone is trying to kill himself and you know of it, you should prevent it. Itīs only needless pain, since, again, if he truly wanted to kill himself, he wouldnīt let anyone know about it, as long as heīs still alive.

We are pretty emotional beings and big beat/letdowns and suffering may let ending life seeming like a good solution. But itīs just a dumb thought, in a weak and desperate moment in our life, were we canīt think of another solution and deep down we know, itīs not the right thing to do.

Thatīs why they show signs. Thatīs why they talk about it. Thatīs why they try it in ways that wonīt work 100%. And to me, those are signs, that deep down, they want to live. And if someone wants to live, we should protect that life, no matter what.

We probably all had the thought of suicide at least once. Most of us, put it down as a ridiculous and stupid thought, some keep that thought deep down in their heart, which might come out with weak resolve one day resulting in talking about it or attempting it and others make up their mind and put their thoughts into action, with the determination and resolve were nothing and no one can or couldīve stopped them.

But in any case, it should be stopped. No life is not worth to be protected(except those who allready have taken a life out of fun or sick desires...I wonīt cry if someone like that ends his life...at least itīs his own this time :mellow: )
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Tempest
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:52 pm
A person with a strong will, achieves everything.

If this person truly wants to end his life, then he will succeed.

Most of those so called suicides end up being a suicide attempt.
They throw themselves in front of cars, slit their arms or take sleeping pills.

And most of them fail. If they truly want to kill themselves, they ram a knife into their heart or blow their head off with a gun.

So if someone is trying to kill himself and you know of it, you should prevent it. Itīs only needless pain, since, again, if he truly wanted to kill himself, he wouldnīt let anyone know about it, as long as heīs still alive.

We are pretty emotional beings and big beat/letdowns and suffering may let ending life seeming like a good solution. But itīs just a dumb thought, in a weak and desperate moment in our life, were we canīt think of another solution and deep down we know, itīs not the right thing to do.

Thatīs why they show signs. Thatīs why they talk about it. Thatīs why they try it in ways that wonīt work 100%. And to me, those are signs, that deep down, they want to live. And if someone wants to live, we should protect that life, no matter what.

We probably all had the thought of suicide at least once. Most of us, put it down as a ridiculous and stupid thought, some keep that thought deep down in their heart, which might come out with weak resolve one day resulting in talking about it or attempting it and others make up their mind and put their thoughts into action, with the determination and resolve were nothing and no one can or couldīve stopped them.

But in any case, it should be stopped. No life is not worth to be protected(except those who allready have taken a life out of fun or sick desires...I wonīt cry if someone like that ends his life...at least itīs his own this time :mellow: )
I actually agree with that. :mellow:
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Bodybuilder
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Yeas I beleive we should try to prevent alot of suicide attmepts. Often when one tries to commit suicide he/she doesn't know what their doing. Alot of the time people who commit suicide are on drugs or very mentaly deppressed and can't think or act the way they normally would.
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