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Should we prevent suicide attempts?
Topic Started: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:12 pm (2,020 Views)
DrewTheDude-Dono
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Yeas I beleive we should try to prevent alot of suicide attmepts. Often when one tries to commit suicide he/she doesn't know what their doing. Alot of the time people who commit suicide are on drugs or very mentaly deppressed and can't think or act the way they normally would.
Or they hate life and have a disease to which can't be cured and death would be the only remedy for it. All of which makes more sense than what you said.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:46 pm
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Yeas I beleive we should try to prevent alot of suicide attmepts. Often when one tries to commit suicide he/she doesn't know what their doing. Alot of the time people who commit suicide are on drugs or very mentaly deppressed and can't think or act the way they normally would.
Or they hate life and have a disease to which can't be cured and death would be the only remedy for it. All of which makes more sense than what you said.
Very few people hate life. They just hate the conditions their under. And which disease or you talking about? Depression? If so depression can be cured. I have a friend who had a disease relating to dpression, he would always write poems about suicide. Finally he agreed to go to thearpy sessions. Now a couple years later he's happier than he's ever been. What you said before didn't make sense.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:36 am
DrewTheDude-Dono
Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:46 pm
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Yeas I beleive we should try to prevent alot of suicide attmepts. Often when one tries to commit suicide he/she doesn't know what their doing. Alot of the time people who commit suicide are on drugs or very mentaly deppressed and can't think or act the way they normally would.
Or they hate life and have a disease to which can't be cured and death would be the only remedy for it. All of which makes more sense than what you said.
Very few people hate life. They just hate the conditions their under. And which disease or you talking about? Depression? If so depression can be cured. I have a friend who had a disease relating to dpression, he would always write poems about suicide. Finally he agreed to go to thearpy sessions. Now a couple years later he's happier than he's ever been. What you said before didn't make sense.
Hmmm... People don't hate each other do they? Hmm... I wonder, if that's the case, why is there such a thing as misanthropy? Or prejudice? or any form of hatred of hatred towards people?

If you believe that, than you must be....

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DrewTheDude-Dono
Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:59 pm
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Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:36 am
DrewTheDude-Dono
Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:46 pm
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Yeas I beleive we should try to prevent alot of suicide attmepts. Often when one tries to commit suicide he/she doesn't know what their doing. Alot of the time people who commit suicide are on drugs or very mentaly deppressed and can't think or act the way they normally would.
Or they hate life and have a disease to which can't be cured and death would be the only remedy for it. All of which makes more sense than what you said.
Very few people hate life. They just hate the conditions their under. And which disease or you talking about? Depression? If so depression can be cured. I have a friend who had a disease relating to dpression, he would always write poems about suicide. Finally he agreed to go to thearpy sessions. Now a couple years later he's happier than he's ever been. What you said before didn't make sense.
Hmmm... People don't hate each other do they? Hmm... I wonder, if that's the case, why is there such a thing as misanthropy? Or prejudice? or any form of hatred of hatred towards people?

If you believe that, than you must be....

Posted Image


You not reading my post carefully :hmmm: . First of all I never said people don't hate each other, I don't know where you got that from. Secondly, I said VERY FEW people hate life. There are a select number a people who just hate the world (Misanthropists). Please read my post more carefully next time.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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Very few people hate life? Absurd! How can you determine such a statistic which you have no proof of!? :o

Also note that misanthropy is hatred of human life rather than the world itself. :heart:
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If you think it's absurd then give me a statistic that backs it up. I've never once meet a misanthropist in all my years so that gives me a clue that very few % of the earths population are misanthropists. You have to realize that the earth has about 7 billion people in it , that's why I said a select few, that's on a scale of several billion. Do you think before you post? And also like I said before many people hate life because the conditions their under, few people have a hatred for life because of a mental disorder (misanthropy for example). And a couple posts ago I said very few people hate life. They just hate the conditions their under. I meant that very few people hate life because of a disorder and that most people don't hate life but like I said before just hate the conditions their under.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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The reason why you don't come across too many misanthropists is most likely because most of them are rednecks or some religious douce. Misanthropy isn't entirely uncommon among philosophical or the more highly educated groups. Of course, it can also be caused by things like social alienation or some other overly social melodramatic cause, but it's not necessarily the most likely cause. Really, you're "proof" of the lack of existence of misanthropists is incredibly poor considering that you're basing that entirely off of your personal experience which says nothing at all. You know, I've never meet a rapist in my entire life. But does that mean that they're non-existent or that they're very minimal to the point that they're not notable? No.

While I don't have any statistics for an exact number of this group, I can say that When bringing up the commonality of a group of people who think such things, one should look at where such thoughts to which would be expressed or such members of this group could be found. For instance, the internet would be an example. Schools of philosophy would be another. The attendants of psychologists can also be a good example of a different sort of misanthropists. Or even in something in relation to satire like Maddox's "The Best Page in the Universe" where misanthropy is a common theme. Given that among groups of people such as these that misanthropists can be found, it would be considered false that there's a "select few" that exist in this world.

While I wouldn't disagree that they aren't a majority, putting them off as "very few" and pretending that they're not numerous enough to be notable is very narrow-minded and short-minded of you. That's the sort of classification you'd give blacks or Muslims if you want to play by that logic. You have nothing to qualify such a classification.

In general, a lot of misanthropists are people who have contempt for the perceived prevailing characteristics of humanity. While there are misanthropists that would elaborate more about the characteristics of humanity they do not like{such as those who express their disdain for the vacuousness of humanity}, misanthropists are those who show dislike for common characteristics of humanity. Misanthropy is in no way a mental disorder or is any way, shape or form a problem as you seem to suggest. Misanthropy is merely a form of thinking just as how empiricism or constructivism is.

Your proof of most people being misanthropists as a result of their own environmental conditions is invalid.
Edited by DrewTheDude-Dono, Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:20 am.
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:16 am
The reason why you don't come across too many misanthropists is most likely because most of them are rednecks or some religious douce. Misanthropy isn't entirely uncommon among philosophical or the more highly educated groups. Of course, it can also be caused by things like social alienation or some other overly social melodramatic cause, but it's not necessarily the most likely cause. Really, you're "proof" of the lack of existence of misanthropists is incredibly poor considering that you're basing that entirely off of your personal experience which says nothing at all. You know, I've never meet a rapist in my entire life. But does that mean that they're non-existent or that they're very minimal to the point that they're not notable? No.

While I don't have any statistics for an exact number of this group, I can say that When bringing up the commonality of a group of people who think such things, one should look at where such thoughts to which would be expressed or such members of this group could be found. For instance, the internet would be an example. Schools of philosophy would be another. The attendants of psychologists can also be a good example of a different sort of misanthropists. Or even in something in relation to satire like Maddox's "The Best Page in the Universe" where misanthropy is a common theme. Given that among groups of people such as these that misanthropists can be found, it would be considered false that there's a "select few" that exist in this world.

While I wouldn't disagree that they aren't a majority, putting them off as "very few" and pretending that they're not numerous enough to be notable is very narrow-minded and short-minded of you. That's the sort of classification you'd give blacks or Muslims if you want to play by that logic. You have nothing to qualify such a classification.

In general, a lot of misanthropists are people who have contempt for the perceived prevailing characteristics of humanity. While there are misanthropists that would elaborate more about the characteristics of humanity they do not like{such as those who express their disdain for the vacuousness of humanity}, misanthropists are those who show dislike for common characteristics of humanity. Misanthropy is in no way a mental disorder or is any way, shape or form a problem as you seem to suggest. Misanthropy is merely a form of thinking just as how empiricism or constructivism is.

Your proof of most people being misanthropists as a result of their own environmental conditions is invalid.
Alot of this is just ramble with few hard hitting points please shorten your post next time. I want you to explain something that I didn't get you said "The reason why you don't come across too many misanthropists is most likely because most of them are rednecks or some religious douce". Please explain your reasoning on this as it made no sense to me. And with my lifestyle I'm constantly meeting new people, none of which are misanthropists, so to me that is valid proof (alot of mentaly distubed people but no misanthropists). Aslo, you never hear about misanthropy on the news or talked about compared to like you said rapist. The rest of your posts was jibber jabber to me ( the whole last paragraph was just explaining what misanthropy was!). It really did bore me.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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...

Do I even need to explain how incredibly retarded that post was?
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Ghost Of Da Qiao
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Out of your own will to protect a person, it is natural to want to stop them, but ultimately, it is their own decision. They are the ones that have nurtured their lives, and what they choose may be out of a frustration at that point they feel they just cannot get rid of. Although that frustration could probably leave them eventually, in that journey to get rid of it, they will have this feeling, and so it is completely okay for a person to kill themselves. They might not feel they fit in to the atmosphere, or even be able to find the right people to talk to.

As for me, I was at my dad's house, and felt trapped there, was mentally abused for years, kept in the house, and not a single person understood me with with 4 siblings who just didn't do anything to help. School felt horrible and the topics we studied were pointless to me. My sister's kept saying how I could eventually move out and go to College and find my freedom, and even though I eventually did, why on earth at that point they told me could I believe them? There was no evidence, and I did not even know what college was. I had this suicidal feeling so many times, and if it was not for my extraordinarily strong will to keep on, and my fear of killing myself, I would have done it ages ago. It is not a bad thing, some people feel it is the only way out of they restricted ways in Physicality.
Edited by Ghost Of Da Qiao, Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:39 am.
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iluvjrpg
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I think we should because anime has thought me that yes I'm serious O_o
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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Mon Nov 2, 2009 4:56 am
I think we should because anime has thought me that yes I'm serious O_o
What? that doesn't make any sense.
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Claus
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Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:13 pm
DrewTheDude-Dono
Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:16 am
The reason why you don't come across too many misanthropists is most likely because most of them are rednecks or some religious douce. Misanthropy isn't entirely uncommon among philosophical or the more highly educated groups. Of course, it can also be caused by things like social alienation or some other overly social melodramatic cause, but it's not necessarily the most likely cause. Really, you're "proof" of the lack of existence of misanthropists is incredibly poor considering that you're basing that entirely off of your personal experience which says nothing at all. You know, I've never meet a rapist in my entire life. But does that mean that they're non-existent or that they're very minimal to the point that they're not notable? No.

While I don't have any statistics for an exact number of this group, I can say that When bringing up the commonality of a group of people who think such things, one should look at where such thoughts to which would be expressed or such members of this group could be found. For instance, the internet would be an example. Schools of philosophy would be another. The attendants of psychologists can also be a good example of a different sort of misanthropists. Or even in something in relation to satire like Maddox's "The Best Page in the Universe" where misanthropy is a common theme. Given that among groups of people such as these that misanthropists can be found, it would be considered false that there's a "select few" that exist in this world.

While I wouldn't disagree that they aren't a majority, putting them off as "very few" and pretending that they're not numerous enough to be notable is very narrow-minded and short-minded of you. That's the sort of classification you'd give blacks or Muslims if you want to play by that logic. You have nothing to qualify such a classification.

In general, a lot of misanthropists are people who have contempt for the perceived prevailing characteristics of humanity. While there are misanthropists that would elaborate more about the characteristics of humanity they do not like{such as those who express their disdain for the vacuousness of humanity}, misanthropists are those who show dislike for common characteristics of humanity. Misanthropy is in no way a mental disorder or is any way, shape or form a problem as you seem to suggest. Misanthropy is merely a form of thinking just as how empiricism or constructivism is.

Your proof of most people being misanthropists as a result of their own environmental conditions is invalid.
Alot of this is just ramble with few hard hitting points please shorten your post next time. I want you to explain something that I didn't get you said "The reason why you don't come across too many misanthropists is most likely because most of them are rednecks or some religious douce". Please explain your reasoning on this as it made no sense to me. And with my lifestyle I'm constantly meeting new people, none of which are misanthropists, so to me that is valid proof (alot of mentaly distubed people but no misanthropists). Aslo, you never hear about misanthropy on the news or talked about compared to like you said rapist. The rest of your posts was jibber jabber to me ( the whole last paragraph was just explaining what misanthropy was!). It really did bore me.
All i really have to say to you is if a serial killer walked up to you and introduced himself, would he say he is a serial killer? No, The same could be said for most misanthropists, the others are those weird religeous hillbillies.
Edited by Claus, Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:40 pm.
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Beards
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I wouldn't stop someone from suiciding. Although, it depends on the situation.

If someone doesn't see light and hope in his life, then I would let him commit suicide if he wants to end his life. If someone wants to commit suicide by running away from a problem, that's a different story. I'd try to stop him and help him in his situation, so he could continue his life.

Yet, suicide is considered to be honorable. Just like Japanese people commit Seppuku (Orso spelled), it is their way to keep the honours to their own. I know I would be honoured, if someone I know would commit Seppuku and invited me among the guests to respect him/her.
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Honda Civic
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I don't really like jumping into these debate topics, but this topic has made my head hurt from how little almost everyone in this topic actually knows about the subject they are debating from a scholarly standpoint.

The best place to start discussing the subject is to talk about the motivations of suicide. The French sociologist, Emile Durkheim, in his book Suicide, which was written around 1900, spoke of four main types of suicide from a social standpoint:

Altruistic - This type of suicide is derived from a belief that ending his or her own life would be a benefit to others or a greater good. A good example of this is a soldier who throws himself on a grenade to protect his squadron from getting killed. An alternate example would be suicide bombers. (Remember, the concept of being a benefit to others is a matter of perspective.)

Egoistic - This is a matter of one's social bonds being weak or severed. If one believes ending his or her life will have no impact on anyone else, this is the type of suicide he or she is committing. Most suicides that adolescents and young adults commit fall in this category.

Anomic - This happens when someone has a complete lack of rules or social constructs in his or her life. For example, when the very wealthy and powerful commit suicide, it's often for this reason. They rationalize that they've gotten everything they wanted, and there's just nothing left to live for.

Fatalistic - People commit this type of suicide when one's society is excruciatingly overbearing. For example, if someone is a slave and has no hope of ever escaping, he or she may commit this type of suicide.

Obviously, this is not a definitive classification of suicide, but it's a good starting point. Moreover, Durkheim's work regarding anomie provides good groundwork for Travis Hirschi's social bond theory, which relates to crime. Without going into heavy detail, social bond theory essentially states that a person's actions are determined by one's integration within society. If a person has attachment to family and friends, is committed to success within society's norms, and has strong moral beliefs, he or she will refrain from deviance.

From a control/bond theory standpoint, suicide can be curtailed by creating better societal bonds for people who wish to commit suicide. If a person has stronger commitments to society, then he or she will have less incentive to take actions in violation of it. In particular, regarding Durkheim's egoistic suicide classification, which is the type of suicide most of you are discussing, the way to remedy that situation would be to make someone wanting to commit suicide understand that his or her actions do have an impact on society. For instance, such a person needs to know that his or her family and friends would be devastated if such an event were to occur.

Strictly speaking about suicides in the United States, since I cannot make assumptions for the rest of the world with my data, there are other things that come into play as well. According to the CDC's 2006 data on suicide and non-fatal injuries, firearms are the leading method of carrying out suicides, accounting for approximately half of suicides in people ages 10 to 64, and over 70% of people over age 65. Self-poisoning rates increase with age through the age of 64, and then decreases again, while self-asphyxiation decreases over time. As for non-fatal self harm, poisoning and cutting are by far the two biggest methods.

There are many things that can be speculated about this data. For one, the abundance of firearms in the United States accounts for the huge percentage of successful suicides. Quite obviously, if you think someone is suicidal, you want to keep guns as far away from that person as possible, if you have the ability to do so. As for the suffocation vs. poisoning trend from teenagers to adulthood, it's a lot easier for a teenager to grab a rope and hang oneself in the garage than it is to get a hold of reliable poisons, which generally take money and freedom they don't usually have. Moreover, teenagers tend to be more impulsive and can bring themselves to do something more grisly, such as hanging, as opposed to adults, who would generally prefer to do something more subtle and conceivably painless. When teenagers do poison themselves, they either don't have the knowledge of how to properly kill themselves, or they don't have the means to get a strong enough substance to do the job. As for cutting non-fatal injuries vs. fatal injuries, cutting is simply painful. Most people just don't have the pain threshold to carry out a suicide by cutting.

In other words, suicide attempts and how well they are carried out has a bit to do with the resources available to the person considering suicide, as well as simple biology. Also, many people who do commit self harm do not necessarily wish to commit suicide.

Moreover, suicide attempts are often the result of a lack of proper societal supervision. Routine activities theory by Felsen and Cohen states that for a crime to occur, there needs to be a motivated offender, an easy victim, and a lack of reliable supervision. Particularly in the United States, routine activities theory can well describe how suicide attempts happen:

Motivated offender - To commit suicide, a person must have some desire to do so. Regardless of a person's reasons for wanting to commit suicide, all that matters in this case is that the person does have reasons and wants to perform the task. When a person commits non-lethal self harm when claiming to want to commit suicide, that person's motivation was not strong enough to commit the greater crime.

Easy victim - Suicide is special in that the victim is also the perpetrator. When the person committing the crime is also the victim, that makes for a generally easy victim, provided the person trying to commit suicide does not back down. It's difficult to say whether one would classify backing down from a suicide attempt is due to an offender being less motivated or the victim being more difficult than imagined, but it is clear that one of these does come into play.

Reliable supervision - Anything I say here is likely to be common sense. Trying to commit suicide right in front of police generally results in the suicide not happening. Police make for excellent supervision. Furthermore, it is easier to commit suicide indoors than out in the street, because fewer people are likely to see the suicide attempt. Committing suicide right in front of family members is more difficult than doing it in the privacy of one's bedroom. The point to be taken from here is that less suicide would happen or even be attempted if adequate supervision measures are taken with those thought to be suicidal. In other words, if you think someone is suicidal, check up on him or her frequently. People are less likely to commit suicide if they think they will be bothered or watched in the process.

In summary, the buildup to suicide is a complex process that cannot be simplified by one reason or ideology. I've only given you a very brief smattering of reasons why someone would commit suicide, and there are tons more that would take thousands upon thousands of words to discuss. Essentially, trying to make sweeping generalizations about people wishing to commit suicide is just total nonsense, because reasons, methods, and circumstances are all unique.
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Cao Pi
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ofcourse we should, i think people comment suicide because of whats happening around them in the world from pressure, ect,,
i think the people should change the way they treat others, some accually comment suicide because of the bad treat, especialy from perants to there children, i read alot about comminting sucide because of perants
i think the only way left is to treat others well

some suicide happen because of drugs,if they take frugs they dont know what they are doing, so that might be affective as well :/
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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Cao Pi
Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:18 pm
ofcourse we should, i think people comment suicide because of whats happening around them in the world from pressure, ect,,
i think the people should change the way they treat others, some accually comment suicide because of the bad treat, especialy from perants to there children, i read alot about comminting sucide because of perants
i think the only way left is to treat others well

some suicide happen because of drugs,if they take frugs they dont know what they are doing, so that might be affective as well :/
See above post. Mr. Civic got the idea of it perfectly.
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Tenkoshiro
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Well, i'd like to state my opinion... I think that some people also commit suicide out of curiosity... what would happen when I die? where would I go? these are some of the questions that one friend of mine has been bugging me about and then one day he told me that he's gonna go find out and I told him that he should stop those kind of jokes and it turned out, he wasn't joking... his mother found him cold the next morning and told us about it, I was shocked and was freaking out, I didn't bother telling his mother about his excessive curiosity as it might get her more depressed and kept it to myself. So i definitely think that curiosity can lead to suicide.
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JasBell
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Tenkoshiro
Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:37 am
Well, i'd like to state my opinion... I think that some people also commit suicide out of curiosity... what would happen when I die? where would I go? these are some of the questions that one friend of mine has been bugging me about and then one day he told me that he's gonna go find out and I told him that he should stop those kind of jokes and it turned out, he wasn't joking... his mother found him cold the next morning and told us about it, I was shocked and was freaking out, I didn't bother telling his mother about his excessive curiosity as it might get her more depressed and kept it to myself. So i definitely think that curiosity can lead to suicide.
Your right but I think, very less people now a days are actually curious of that.

I think suicide attempts are something that should be stop. Suicide is said to be one of the most deadly sin because it shows that whatever problem God throws into your life, you can't take it. Suicide is even sadder than murder imo because there was so much potential and success that person could have had in their life. Don't get me wrong murder is sad too but suicide is something that is mostly unexpected. Unless that person shows signs of it, then it's expected.

But 90% of the time suicide comes from depression and depression comes from a problem or if you feel like your life is fullfilled and you think you have no reason to life.
Edited by JasBell, Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:57 pm.
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Will
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Ill try to let them think if their life is worth living.
It's their decision really, I cant force people, only guide.

If someone wants to debate with me, I wont reply.
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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Honestly, I find it kind of humorous how people completely ignore Honda civics post. He got the entire concept right.

How can you prove that "90%" of people commit suicide out of depression or even the cause of such depression, anyway? Hell, I think saying that is way too broad considering the numerous other reasons for suicide given to people before our current zeitgeist set in.
Edited by DrewTheDude-Dono, Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:00 am.
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Honda Civic
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DrewTheDude-Dono
Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:58 am
Honestly, I find it kind of humorous how people completely ignore Honda civics post. He got the entire concept right.

How can you prove that "90%" of people commit suicide out of depression or even the cause of such depression, anyway? Hell, I think saying that is way too broad considering the numerous other reasons for suicide given to people before our current zeitgeist set in.
Thank you for your praise.

One thing I will add here is that when it comes to statistics about the correlation between depression and suicide, many of those are suspect, because of tautology. For those of you who don't know what tautology is, it's kind of along the same lines the thing teachers jam into students about how they shouldn't define a word using the word they're defining. When studying theory, tautology is more trying to define one variable with the other variable.

In this case, there is a danger of tautology, due to this line of thinking:

"Why are people suicidal?"
"Because they are depressed!"
"How do you determine they are depressed?"
"Because they want to or have tried to kill themselves!"

In other words, it's very difficult to find worthwhile statistics for suicide-depression correlation due to the logical fallacies used in determining depression. Depression has to be determined completely without the presence of suicide or suicidal tendencies and thoughts as part of the diagnosis. That's not to say the actual definition of depression involves suicide, but how it is found in patients almost always does. To get good statistics, patients need to be diagnosed for depression without suicide being mentioned, and that rarely happens in the real world, although there are studies on the way now where researchers are finally figuring that out.
Edited by Honda Civic, Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:00 pm.
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vanilla_skies
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Honda Civic:

I found your post exquisitely informative and illuminating, but it does make me question the definition you give for “egoistical suicide.” Many teenagers and young adults do not even consider their family’s feelings when resolving to commit suicide. It is not that they are unaware that their death will affect others or that they believe their death will be inconsequential, but it is simply that they are indifferent. Many know exactly how their death would affect their family; they are just apathetic to the notion.

In my limited experience, the motivations for suicide have very little to nothing to do with others; moreover, suicide is merely a selfish act of escape from one’s internal torment. I do not pretend to discredit the other motivations for suicide, but when considering that “egoistical suicide” is the most commonly known and discussed, is it not rational to assume that it is also the most frequent? If so, I do not foresee that strengthening social bonds will have much of an effect on the rate of suicide. Perhaps it would decrease the likelihood of “fatalistic suicide” and “altruistic suicide,” but it would not necessarily have the same effect on “egoistical suicide.” Not all suicide is the result of social isolation, but in fact, many suicides are committed for self emancipation and salvation. In this case, it is not a question of physical social isolation, but one of mental and emotional detachment.
Edited by vanilla_skies, Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:35 pm.
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Honda Civic
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vanilla_skies
Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:22 pm
Honda Civic:

I found your post exquisitely informative and illuminating, but it does make me question the definition you give for “egoistical suicide.” Many teenagers and young adults do not even consider their family’s feelings when resolving to commit suicide. It is not that they are unaware that their death will affect others or that they believe their death will be inconsequential, but it is simply that they are indifferent. Many know exactly how their death would affect their family; they are just apathetic to the notion.

In my limited experience, the motivations for suicide have very little to nothing to do with others; moreover, suicide is merely a selfish act of escape from one’s internal torment. I do not pretend to discredit the other motivations for suicide, but when considering that “egoistical suicide” is the most commonly known and discussed, is it not rational to assume that it is also the most frequent? If so, I do not foresee that strengthening social bonds will have much of an effect on the rate of suicide. Perhaps it would decrease the likelihood of “fatalistic suicide” and “altruistic suicide,” but it would not necessarily have the same effect on “egoistical suicide.” Not all suicide is the result of social isolation, but in fact, many suicides are committed for self emancipation and salvation. In this case, it is not a question of physical social isolation, but one of mental and emotional detachment.
Well, according to Durkheim, the main concept behind egoistic suicide is that social bonds have deteriorated. The very fact that the thoughts of family and friends are not considered shows the breakdown of the bonds. I would agree that some people don't think their deaths will be meaningful to the family and peer institutions, and others don't find significant meaning in the institutions themselves. That all spins around to the same end though of having weak social bonds.

As for whether or not egoistic suicide is the most common, if I had to guess, I'd say that it probably is in current times, but that's only a guess. It's nearly impossible to compile statistics about people's motivations for suicide. Also, the fact it's the most discussed right now probably has a lot more to do with the fact that it's a socially hot issue more than anything, and that type of suicide particularly clashes with current Western values.

In regard to your statement about committing suicide to save oneself, that's where Durkheim gets a little blurry. A person may have a perception of excessive social control as a result of the decaying social bonds. For example, if a person finds society to be overbearing due to a conflict with the societal norms in place for being able to make friends or to date, and he or she has a poor relationship with parents due to a perception of unreasonable strictness, he or she may find society to be domineering and he or she will have weak social bonds. In that case, categorization becomes difficult.

Just as categorization becomes difficult, so does finding a solution to fix the problem. Then again, like I said, suicide is a problem that has many causes, and we have to be flexible as a society to solve these problems. Being too rigid will only serve to harm, not help, suicidal individuals.

As for mental and emotional detachment versus physical social isolation, all of those come into play when focusing on any social issue. One of the first things that is drilled into you if you take a social psychology course, particularly from a sociological bend, is that perception is just as important, if not more important, than fact. For example, in regard to social bonds, someone's relationships with others is a matter of how he or she perceives those relationships to be.

To look at it another way, using Cooley's concept of the "looking glass self," we create an image of how others look at us. Much of what we base our relationships on is how others perceive us. But we can only create a perception ourselves of how others perceive us. (It's the whole "I think that you think that she thinks that he thinks that they think..." idea.) So when we become detached from someone, our perception is indeed what matters. Whether or not the situation has changed in the outside reality that others perceive matters little, and all that really matters is whether or not we believe our own reality has changed.

When it comes to someone who is suicidal, a person bases decisions on the reality he or she perceives. If that person perceives a hopeless, dark reality for himself or herself, whether or not we perceive, to use a phrase from a Duran Duran song, the "ordinary world" as not hopeless and dark is rather meaningless to that person. One of the keys to not only helping those who are suicidal, but people with problems in general, is to try to help change those negative perceptions.
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xFlautistx
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Well, I think that we should try to stop people if we think it can be stopped. But I do think it is in some sense, to some degree, it it the person's fault- you can, in my maybe misinformed opinion, choose how you feel, how you react and what you let get to you. If trying to stop the suicide attempt puts others at stake, or other things at stake, I would say there's a place where you do have to draw the line. Not to sound heartless. D:
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