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Morality and Moral Issues; know your place
Topic Started: Tue May 5, 2009 3:10 am (1,348 Views)
lmay19
Bundle of Crazy
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I agree with about all of you over morals n stuff, everyone has different ones, and since it's 2009 I think morals have been thrown out the window (and thank GOD for that!). yay for revealing outfits that weren't allowed several years ago because of, you guessed it, "morality" affecting the law. Besides in math, who cares about right and wrong anyways? I know people who have cheated on countless tests who've died in perfect harmony with nothing bad ever happen to them.

In fact, I'll never call anything right or wrong. I'd never even say "killing is wrong". The real issue is punishing the dangerous, not judging the morality of the issue. Killing someone is the epitome of dangerous. Some say "i don't think killing should be punished why should YOUR opinions count!!". I say "ok, have fun killing people then, dangerous boy. the law will deal with you." The law will punish the dangerous. Getting the psychos off the streets and keeping our world safe is most important.
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AK049
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Wisdom and Virtue (seeker)
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What is the basis of the statement "morality has no objective nature"?

While it is true that there is a supermarket of choices with regards to moral issues, the assertion that there is no objectivity beyond that has not been conclusively proven, neither by philosophy nor science.

I'd also like to ask whether the law can be created apart from morality? Is preservation of safety an adequate reason?

With regards to my theoretical dilemma, what if the law has nothing to say on whether to preserve a timeless yet eccentric culture or to let the (biased) majority have its way?

I'll reveal the full implications of the dilemma soon... :mellow:
Edited by AK049, Thu May 7, 2009 9:35 am.
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lmay19
Bundle of Crazy
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AK049
Thu May 7, 2009 9:02 am
Is preservation of safety an adequate reason?
Yeah. The law doesn't really care about morals anymore, more like keeping people secure with their life and essential things.

But I'm beginning to see how wasteful it is to crack down on drugs when we have so many other issues. Drugs are harmful, but it's like cigs in that way and cigs are still allowed. and it shouldn't matter if someone is seen with them, it should matter if someone is commiting a crime under their influence... -_- This may be one more morality issue that we need to do away with.
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AK049
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Wisdom and Virtue (seeker)
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But then, why do we promote safety? Is that because safety is good?

With regards to my theoretical dilemma, here are my (perceived) implications as to its horns:

If there is an obligation to preserve and allow autonomy to timeless yet eccentric cultures that others do not accept, then it could lead to the fracturing of nations with conflicting cultures (the Philippines and China, for instance). It could even lead to a rough individualism.

If there is no obligation, then it could lead to the abandonment of rare cultures and subcultures in favor of mass culture, one step closer to a one-world state.

Strangely enough, the issue of whether to preserve national customs seemingly gives the opposite implications. :mellow:
Edited by AK049, Fri May 8, 2009 1:51 am.
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lmay19
Bundle of Crazy
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My brain hurts after reading that.

Um, how is safety not good? Are you trolling?
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AK049
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Wisdom and Virtue (seeker)
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Morality is all about the good, the right ordering of the good found in all. Therefore morality cannot be completely separated from the law since safety is also good. Get the point? :mellow:
Edited by AK049, Fri May 8, 2009 9:52 am.
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French Overlord
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Emperor's Retainer
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safety =/= morality... safety is more like a state were we feel secure and good since we know nothing will arm us...i guess xD

anyway morality = you, so if you cant find that by yourself and you ask other what true morality is then you'll never find the answer... and "morality" in my opinion is just a single word to put sense into human being so i could say morality = sense :mellow:
Edited by French Overlord, Fri May 8, 2009 9:54 am.
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AK049
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I ask, then. If morality is a sense, then what is the object of sensation?

Like you said, safety is a state wherein we feel secure and good. Isn't such a state good? Which is why morality cannot be split from law and order. :mellow:
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French Overlord
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Emperor's Retainer
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i meant common sense like 2+2 = 4 / dont kill / dont steal i didnt meant morality as a sensation

as for the security thing i already explain myself -no repeat-
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AK049
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By saying that morality is akin to common sense (perception of basic truths found in all), that means there are fundamentals of good found in all. :mellow:
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French Overlord
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you think too much... sometimes it's good to live whit unclear thing cause the way you are thinking is like asking why do we live = cant answer :/
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AK049
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I suppose you have a point...

I seem to preoccupy my entire life with issues like this. :mellow:
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Ganheim
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We're drowning in information and starving for knowledge
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Based on what I see: law is not necessarily safety (I overheard a conversation between a fellow from Luxemborg who worked in Germany before retiring, talking to an auto worker from Chicago - they compared similar union rules stating things as silly as a pipefitter not being allowed to unplug a motor). Morality is also not necessarily safety - sometimes one must be willing to place oneself into danger to protect the lives of others. However, generally it appears that laws were created from the basis of moral systems which are intended to preserve the safety of the society and individual (in that order).

The question that I am interested in exploring is the disparity in things considered moral tenants from one culture to another. In one culture, questioning the central authority (generally government) is seen as shocking faux pas. In others, constantly "watchdoging" higher levels of any power heirarchy is seen as a duty of all citizens. How could such very different things become cultural tenants?
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AK049
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I have another proposition for us to discuss:

Can culture be separated from law and morality, and is there such a notion as natural law common to all? :mellow:
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Ganheim
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We're drowning in information and starving for knowledge
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Based on my observations and all the sociological studies I've done, I'd say yes: there probably is some form of "natural law" (I allude to this earlier when I mentioned some universally visible 'moral pillars' in post 22). Who most closely follows this "natural law" I'm not sure.

It's clear that everybody screws it up somewhere along the line, but there are a lot of similarities between the "gentleman's code" or "knightly conduct" in Europe and the "Bushido Code" of Japan, and those cultures grew up independent of each other. The fact that so many things could be looked up adds to my conclusion.
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AK049
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Given the assumption that there is such a thing as natural law, what is the best manner of upholding and realizing the dictates of the natural law? For instance, Filipinos consider wearing a hat indoors (especially in churches) as disrespectful while male Orthodox Jews have to wear their hats inside the synagogues.

Now this is where the dimensions of law, culture, and morality touch each other in a sticky philosophical quagmire. :mellow:
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Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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Many here said that something is Normal.
My Question: What is truly Normal?
My answer is: everything or nothing. Because ,you see, what is normal to me may not be Normal to others. Normal,Like Justice, Honor,and even Righteousness vary from person to person.
The intentions of those who said normal was to say common, or maybe typical
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DrewTheDude-Dono
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VAN DAMME KNOWS NO WEAKNESS!
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Zhuge Zhan
Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:12 pm
Many here said that something is Normal.
My Question: What is truly Normal?
My answer is: everything or nothing. Because ,you see, what is normal to me may not be Normal to others. Normal,Like Justice, Honor,and even Righteousness vary from person to person.
The intentions of those who said normal was to say common, or maybe typical
No ****. What's your point?
Edited by DrewTheDude-Dono, Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:53 am.
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Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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My point:Never say that somebody is crazy,neither say that something is Normal(You know,what everyone do,you need to do,because everyone do).You can say something is common,if many people do it,but Normal varies from person to person.Understood?
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Kiheiji
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Miracle Violence
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Nobody is saying anyone is crazy in this thread. We are talking about morality.

Well, I don't know what to do. I have a feeling that what Zhuge Zhan said maybe right, something that I think normal might offend others. I think pissing on the wall is fine while people may think it's immoral.
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Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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CA is right and wrong at the same time.When you say someone is crazy,you are following a rule of society's moral.So crazyness and moral are related
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Kiheiji
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Miracle Violence
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Zhuge Zhan
Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:40 pm
CA is right and wrong at the same time.When you say someone is crazy,you are following a rule of society's moral.So crazyness and moral are related
I don't get your mindset. Why is calling people crazy following society's morals?
Edited by Kiheiji, Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:48 pm.
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Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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Depends on what society you live.Society has its rules for everything.And it has its rules to call people crazy.And that rules i call moral,understand?
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Kiheiji
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Miracle Violence
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I don't think you are correct. If society says if he humans should f*** like rabbits, does that make it morally correct? Of course not.
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Demonic Warrior
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Your point is right.But if the majority of society agrees on one thing,the ones who disagree are eiher isolated or forced to agree by some way.And it has happened to the concept of crazy
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