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Sengoku BASARA 3 (in NA: SB Samurai Heroes); Out in 2010 - PS3&Wii Multi!
Topic Started: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:46 pm (399,225 Views)
Ouelis
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I'm I the only one who thinks that this whole argument is kinda going nowhere. I'm all for healthy debate but this whole thing is starting to become more of a verbal food-fight. Maybe I'm just sensitive too the whole business, I don't know.

Thursday tomorrow in any case. The site's going to put up the pages for Kojuro and Sasuke. Any hope that we'll be getting anything else? I can't recall how it's been the last couple of times when there was a smaller update, if maybe they added a couple of shots at the same time.
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Manta Punk
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Uh... Ok, I seem to have offended some members by my post, which wasn't intentional at all, neither was "putting down" Koei's games :/

Basically, the reason I made the comparison was to show Eklineage that Capcom cutting characters is understandable. I made the comparison with Koei due to his comment that they dont "follow this crap practice". I wasn't trying to elevate BASARA, just trying to defend it. But when you bash BASARA due to the cuts and praise Koei's game for not having them, being a BASARA fan boy, I'm obviously going to act a bit rash. I know it was wrong listing Koei's faults and I shouldn't have, but I was caught in the heat of the moment.

So, I apologise... Its just, we've had this cut characters discussion so many times, and I'd like to think we've all accepted it, know there'll be new characters to fill the gaps, focus on the better things of the game, and move on.

So, again, I didn't mean anything by it, just trying to defend one of my favourite series.
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ViperQueen
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CHHESSUUTTOOO!!!
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I think this was answered already, but...why did (quite alot) the characters in SB2 get cut in SB3? DX
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Lord Mizer
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Manta Punk
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:05 pm
Uh... Ok, I seem to have offended some members by my post, which wasn't intentional at all, neither was "putting down" Koei's games :/

Basically, the reason I made the comparison was to show Eklineage that Capcom cutting characters is understandable. I made the comparison with Koei due to his comment that they dont "follow this crap practice". I wasn't trying to elevate BASARA, just trying to defend it. But when you bash BASARA due to the cuts and praise Koei's game for not having them, being a BASARA fan boy, I'm obviously going to act a bit rash. I know it was wrong listing Koei's faults and I shouldn't have, but I was caught in the heat of the moment.

So, I apologise... Its just, we've had this cut characters discussion so many times, and I'd like to think we've all accepted it, know there'll be new characters to fill the gaps, focus on the better things of the game, and move on.

So, again, I didn't mean anything by it, just trying to defend one of my favourite series.
Yeah, I suppose I've bit a bit rash with my words..I apologize.

Eklineage, was incorrect in saying that Koei does not cut characters.

As the BASARA series is one of my favorites, I have no problem with you defending it.

All I'm saying is, we might as well put this behind us.
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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viperqueen
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:10 pm
I think this was answered already, but...why did (quite alot) the characters in SB2 get cut in SB3? DX
Well...thatīs the reason we allways discuss it, cause no one can understand whatīs going on in Kobayashiīs mind (and the whole BASARA crew too, canīt allways blame the main man :lol: )

Complete cuts:

Imagawa Yoshimoto, Oda Nobunaga, Noh, Ranmaru, Akechi Mitsuhide, Azai Nagamasa, Takenaka Hanbei, Toyotomi Hideyoshi were cut due to some reasons, the main one being that the story doesnīt have a place for them.

This is a game about the battle of Sekigahara and that happened because Nobunaga killed Yoshimoto and grew more powerfull, crushing his brother-in-law Nagamasa, being betrayed and killed alongside with Noh and Ranmaru by Mitsuhide, who was then defeated by Hideyoshi and then Hideyoshi was, as it seems now, killed by a rebellion led by Ieyasu. (and with Hanbeiīs illness + the absence of Hideyoshi, they decided to leave him out too)

So to have a more serious story, they had to make some "serious" cuts in the character department.

I know it kinda sucks, but as long as there are enough new characters to make up for it, the roster is big enough to keep us happy (20 playable characters arenīt enough...not even close <_< ) and the story really is great, then I guess, we can live with it somehow :)

And now that you mention it...we still havenīt seen a video of Yoshitsugu...really, I donīt understand Kobayashi. Itīs all well that he decided to officially announce the game at the TGS...but couldnīt he wait a bit?

I mean itīs like he rations every bit of information like Scrooge McDuck...whatīs he waiting for?

I mean we still need to see a gameplay vid of Tadakatsu, Motonari, Motochika, Yoshitsugu, Keiji, Magoichi, Kanbei, Tsuru-chan and Yoshihiro...itīs great that we hear a voice each week and see some nice pics...but whereīs the great "so many demo/gameplay videos of BASARA" statement of him...if you really have that many...were are they? We have allmost February now. I know, itīs still around 6 months till the game comes out but...why did you announce the game so soon to begin with, if you donīt even have enough informations to keep us hyped for those 6 months? :huh:

I donīt really get it. I mean if we look at it now, the soonest weīll see a new character is around mid-march. And we donīt even have ANY hint to look forward to. So weīll have to wait allmost two months till we get something new...meh... :hmmm:

@at the KOEI vs. CAPCOM discussion:

Just drop the matter. Both of them suck. I mean they all try to make much money out of little effort.

Even though CAPCOM did a great job with the HEROES expansion of BASARA 2 (all the NPCs got playable, 8 really good Gaiden stories, a kickass NPC addition, new alternative outifts, 2 Player mode/2 player arena vs. modes, new items, new music, etc.) and thus showed KOEI how a expansion should look like (I donīt even have to mention the DW6 disaster...at least SW3 got it right...hope DW7 gets back on the track) they both try to milk everything they can out of their franchise.

And who can blame them? Weīll buy it anyway :lol:
Afterall, a company is there to make profit.

So all of them make mistakes, some of us are more offended by one comapany, than someone else, but in the end, they are allmost the same. :rolleyes:
Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:45 pm.
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SRS
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Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:10 pm
Eklineage, was incorrect in saying that Koei does not cut characters.
He was saying that Koei doesn't cut central characters to the game like in SB3. Hence why he used the example of Lu Bu since Lu Bu is a central character of DW, like how one could say Nobunaga was for SB1 and SB2.

The only characters Koei cuts are fringe or bonus characters that don't drastically affect the overall scope of the game.

However, the way the characters are cut is different for both series and have different reasons behind them, which is why I can accept SW and SB doing it, but not really DW.

The other problem I have with that post is that half of those "things Koei does worse" aren't even true, or ignore that Capcom does it as well.
Edited by SRS, Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:36 pm.
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ViperQueen
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CHHESSUUTTOOO!!!
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Devilsking
Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:31 pm
viperqueen
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:10 pm
I think this was answered already, but...why did (quite alot) the characters in SB2 get cut in SB3? DX
Well...thatīs the reason we allways discuss it, cause no one can understand whatīs going on in Kobayashiīs mind (and the whole BASARA crew too, canīt allways blame the main man :lol: )

Complete cuts:

Imagawa Yoshimoto, Oda Nobunaga, Noh, Ranmaru, Akechi Mitsuhide, Azai Nagamasa, Takenaka Hanbei, Toyotomi Hideyoshi were cut due to some reasons, the main one being that the story doesnīt have a place for them.

This is a game about the battle of Sekigahara and that happened because Nobunaga killed Yoshimoto and grew more powerfull, crushing his brother-in-law Nagamasa, being betrayed and killed alongside with Noh and Ranmaru by Mitsuhide, who was then defeated by Hideyoshi and then Hideyoshi was, as it seems now, killed by a rebellion led by Ieyasu. (and with Hanbeiīs illness + the absence of Hideyoshi, they decided to leave him out too)

So to have a more serious story, they had to make some "serious" cuts in the character department.

I know it kinda sucks, but as long as there are enough new characters to make up for it, the roster is big enough to keep us happy (20 playable characters arenīt enough...not even close <_< ) and the story really is great, then I guess, we can live with it somehow :)

And now that you mention it...we still havenīt seen a video of Yoshitsugu...really, I donīt understand Kobayashi. Itīs all well that he decided to officially announce the game at the TGS...but couldnīt he wait a bit?

I mean itīs like he rations every bit of information like Scrooge McDuck...whatīs he waiting for?

I mean we still need to see a gameplay vid of Tadakatsu, Motonari, Motochika, Yoshitsugu, Keiji, Magoichi, Kanbei, Tsuru-chan and Yoshihiro...itīs great that we hear a voice each week and see some nice pics...but whereīs the great "so many demo/gameplay videos of BASARA" statement of him...if you really have that many...were are they? We have allmost February now. I know, itīs still around 6 months till the game comes out but...why did you announce the game so soon to begin with, if you donīt even have enough informations to keep us hyped for those 6 months? :huh:

I donīt really get it. I mean if we look at it now, the soonest weīll see a new character is around mid-march. And we donīt even have ANY hint to look forward to. So weīll have to wait allmost two months till we get something new...meh... :hmmm:

@at the KOEI vs. CAPCOM discussion:

Just drop the matter. Both of them suck. I mean they all try to make much money out of little effort.

Even though CAPCOM did a great job with the HEROES expansion of BASARA 2 (all the NPCs got playable, 8 really good Gaiden stories, a kickass NPC addition, new alternative outifts, 2 Player mode/2 player arena vs. modes, new items, new music, etc.) and thus showed KOEI how a expansion should look like (I donīt even have to mention the DW6 disaster...at least SW3 got it right...hope DW7 gets back on the track) they both try to milk everything they can out of their franchise.

And who can blame them? Weīll buy it anyway :lol:
Afterall, a company is there to make profit.

So all of them make mistakes, some of us are more offended by one comapany, than someone else, but in the end, they are allmost the same. :rolleyes:
:XD Wow...you got alot to say :XD
So..it is also like the anime characters who died got in SB3? If so..Ranmaru didn't die at the end of the O.o
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DarkMantisTalon
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im really eager to see the gameplay vids for the new characters but i really want to see kanbei and tsuruhime
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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viperqueen
Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:09 pm
:XD Wow...you got alot to say :XD
So..it is also like the anime characters who died got in SB3? If so..Ranmaru didn't die at the end of the O.o
Well, not quite.

Even though, Iīll say it without spoilers, Yoshihiro was "slaughtered" by Nobuanga in the SB anime, heīs lively and full of energy in SB3. And even though Hideyoshi and Hanbei werenīt even in the anime, they are allready dead in SB3. So, even though Ranmaru was still alive at the end of the SB anime, heīs dead in SB3.

So the anime doesnīt really say much about wether a character is in or not. Only lady luck...or Mr. Kobayashi-san it this case...will determine whoīs in and whoīs not ;)
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ChibiGingi
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*is kind of glad she missed the last two pages* I still have people hating me for comparing SW and SB, like hell I want to get dragged into that debate again! XD

Anyway, are we expecting anymore silhouettes soon? I was completely off with Kanbei last time...
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eklineage
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Lord Mizer
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:10 pm
Manta Punk
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:05 pm
Uh... Ok, I seem to have offended some members by my post, which wasn't intentional at all, neither was "putting down" Koei's games :/

Basically, the reason I made the comparison was to show Eklineage that Capcom cutting characters is understandable. I made the comparison with Koei due to his comment that they dont "follow this crap practice". I wasn't trying to elevate BASARA, just trying to defend it. But when you bash BASARA due to the cuts and praise Koei's game for not having them, being a BASARA fan boy, I'm obviously going to act a bit rash. I know it was wrong listing Koei's faults and I shouldn't have, but I was caught in the heat of the moment.

So, I apologise... Its just, we've had this cut characters discussion so many times, and I'd like to think we've all accepted it, know there'll be new characters to fill the gaps, focus on the better things of the game, and move on.

So, again, I didn't mean anything by it, just trying to defend one of my favourite series.
Yeah, I suppose I've bit a bit rash with my words..I apologize.

Eklineage, was incorrect in saying that Koei does not cut characters.

As the BASARA series is one of my favorites, I have no problem with you defending it.

All I'm saying is, we might as well put this behind us.
When did I say that Koei doesn't cut characters? Why do ppl keep assuming this is beyond me.

But anyway... I'll stop b*tching now. I'm pretty sure he cut the popular ones because it was a good decision. Atm I'm not unhappy with these "replacements". Well they are not replacements but I'm sure you guys are smart enough to know what I mean lol.

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Watchtower
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ChibiGingi
Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:34 pm
*is kind of glad she missed the last two pages* I still have people hating me for comparing SW and SB, like hell I want to get dragged into that debate again! XD

Anyway, are we expecting anymore silhouettes soon? I was completely off with Kanbei last time...
Yeah, this arguement's getting heated up. And I did read that whole arguement that you wound up involved in over SW/SB. Man did that get nasty.

And as of right now, we got no silhouettes. It seems that in exchange for a third character (Tsuruhime), we have no clues to the next reveal.
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Ouelis
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Quote:
 
And as of right now, we got no silhouettes. It seems that in exchange for a third character (Tsuruhime), we have no clues to the next reveal.


Indeed. You know, I think I would have preferred a silhouette instead of a third revealed character. Even if it had only been a silhouette of a new character and not both a new and returning. At least then we could spend some of the time speculating.
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ChibiGingi
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Watchtower
Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:43 pm
ChibiGingi
Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:34 pm
*is kind of glad she missed the last two pages* I still have people hating me for comparing SW and SB, like hell I want to get dragged into that debate again! XD

Anyway, are we expecting anymore silhouettes soon? I was completely off with Kanbei last time...
Yeah, this arguement's getting heated up. And I did read that whole arguement that you wound up involved in over SW/SB. Man did that get nasty.

And as of right now, we got no silhouettes. It seems that in exchange for a third character (Tsuruhime), we have no clues to the next reveal.
Yeah I have a tendency to say stupid stuff every now and then. Lesson learned: Basara fans are passionate. x_X

No silhouettes? Wow... now we're literally left in the dark. Mr. Kobayashi seems like a sadist or something.
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Watchtower
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ChibiGingi
Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:41 am
Watchtower
Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:43 pm
ChibiGingi
Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:34 pm
*is kind of glad she missed the last two pages* I still have people hating me for comparing SW and SB, like hell I want to get dragged into that debate again! XD

Anyway, are we expecting anymore silhouettes soon? I was completely off with Kanbei last time...
Yeah, this arguement's getting heated up. And I did read that whole arguement that you wound up involved in over SW/SB. Man did that get nasty.

And as of right now, we got no silhouettes. It seems that in exchange for a third character (Tsuruhime), we have no clues to the next reveal.
Yeah I have a tendency to say stupid stuff every now and then. Lesson learned: Basara fans are passionate. x_X

No silhouettes? Wow... now we're literally left in the dark. Mr. Kobayashi seems like a sadist or something.
I actually didn't see any faults in your arguements. It was less the arguements being "stupid" and more of a large number of people getting PO'd and flaming ya. :/

And don't take the silhouette loss that strongly. I'd like to think we don't have it because they want to hype up the next character(s) so badly that they don't want to give any hints, to prevent it from being spoiled. That personally tells me that the next character is gonna be big.

nudge nudge DK wink wink. :shifty:
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Balder
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Nine Demons Yoshitaka,
960.000 or 1.400.000, assuming we are talking about a whole series, those are some very depressive figures, even if it's just a Japan exclusive title. I never thought things were that sour for Capcom...
And I always assumed the game had a somewhat decent budget, with all the high-profile voice actors.
Now I wonder how much money they're cashin' in from the merchandise? Must be more than a couple of quarters for them to "insist" with games that don't sell all that much.

And like most mentioned, we are very much left out in the dark now. Seems lil' Tsuru was something of a "poisoned gift".
Koba could be nice and fill the gap with the truckload of way past due character videos. "Could" being the key word here... :hmmm:
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Watchtower
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Balder
Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:26 am
Nine Demons Yoshitaka,
960.000 or 1.400.000, assuming we are talking about a whole series, those are some very depressive figures, even if it's just a Japan exclusive title. I never thought things were that sour for Capcom...
And I always assumed the game had a somewhat decent budget, with all the high-profile voice actors.
Now I wonder how much money they're cashin' in from the merchandise? Must be more than a couple of quarters for them to "insist" with games that don't sell all that much.

And like most mentioned, we are very much left out in the dark now. Seems lil' Tsuru was something of a "poisoned gift".
Koba could be nice and fill the gap with the truckload of way past due character videos. "Could" being the key word here... :hmmm:
Yeah, it's pretty sad that a game franchise is getting more money from it's merchandise than from the actual game. I'm surprised these numbers are considerably bad, but that's probably in comparison to more famous games.

I just had a bad thought. What if Capcom's had their eye on this for some time now? What would Capcom be willing to do to rise the game up the ranks money-wise? What if this whole "sell it internationally" thing is just some scheme to make more money by relying on an international audience that could easily be bigger than Japan's whole population?!?!?!

...........Nah, that'd be too crazy. :hehe:
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BlackKite
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長宗我部菜々

Site updated with things you already predicted well.

And that's all. Still no video. Now I'm starting to wonder if the 'blank 3 weeks' is going to be used to just add new videos instead of introducing more characters. But if this is true, then we won't be seeing a new batch in February. Hmm....
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Jsun
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KOEI Warriors Forever!
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SB3 Renders updated with latest 2 characters!

http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/topic/6663182/
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Nine Demons Yoshitaka
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Thanks Jsun! Always on the ball!!

I was thinking that probably the reason why we haven't seen Motochika's and Motonari's gameplay vids yet is that they involve characters not-yet announced (at the time)

Motochika could easily fight Tsuru (and vice versa), but IMHO Motonari will fight someone geographically closer to him (Ukita Hideie?) and Kanbei/Yoshihiro someone else from Kyushu...but who knows...

Anyway there's no reason not to show Yoshi's and Maggie's videos anyway...why the hell are they taking so much time, I have no idea....


And one of the next revealed characters is going to be Chacha/Yodo. I feel it in my bones!
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Lord Mizer
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First Lieutenant
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Seraphil
Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:34 pm
Lord Mizer
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:10 pm
Eklineage, was incorrect in saying that Koei does not cut characters.
He was saying that Koei doesn't cut central characters to the game like in SB3. Hence why he used the example of Lu Bu since Lu Bu is a central character of DW, like how one could say Nobunaga was for SB1 and SB2.

The only characters Koei cuts are fringe or bonus characters that don't drastically affect the overall scope of the game.

However, the way the characters are cut is different for both series and have different reasons behind them, which is why I can accept SW and SB doing it, but not really DW.

The other problem I have with that post is that half of those "things Koei does worse" aren't even true, or ignore that Capcom does it as well.
Ah, well....I've seem to have misread Eklineage's wording from that.

My mistake.


Anyways, can't wait till the new batch of characters show up.
Edited by Lord Mizer, Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:31 am.
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DarkDante
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A new power is rising
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Nine Demons Yoshitaka
Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:22 am
Thanks Jsun! Always on the ball!!

I was thinking that probably the reason why we haven't seen Motochika's and Motonari's gameplay vids yet is that they involve characters not-yet announced (at the time)

Motochika could easily fight Tsuru (and vice versa), but IMHO Motonari will fight someone geographically closer to him (Ukita Hideie?) and Kanbei/Yoshihiro someone else from Kyushu...but who knows...

Anyway there's no reason not to show Yoshi's and Maggie's videos anyway...why the hell are they taking so much time, I have no idea....


And one of the next revealed characters is going to be Chacha/Yodo. I feel it in my bones!
I don't know about that, I mean Yukimura's vid shows him fighting Motonari, it's not as if they are geographically close. Besides wouldn't the most obvious thing be for Motonari to fight Motochika and vice versa in their respective demo vids? Regardless I agree give us Yoshitsugu, Mago and Kanbei's vids NAO Koba!

Anyway I'm hoping and praying for Hisahide and Mogami Yoshiaki in the next update. ^_^
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wildcard
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Wait... I know I haven't checked in here in ages, but...
Hanbei won't be in this?
DAMN!
I was looking forward to playing the SB version of him as I didn't get my hands on any of the japanese only titles containing him *pouting*

... They are cutting Hanbei but add in Kanbei? I'm having a weird feeling about this, but that's probably because of my fangirl influence.

*sighs* At least I get to kick-ass with Kojirou (finally) and Yukimura (again). Also Magoichi sounds interesting.


As for why they are cutting characters... I thought that was because SB3 is supposed to be some sort of continuation from the anime? Or was that a wrong rumor?
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DarkDante
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I don't know how to tell you this but Kojuro is an NPC now he's not playable... :( As for the anime no it's not cannon for one thing *MASSIVE SPOILERS*

Shimazu and Tokugawa were both wiped out in the anime, and as you can guess they play big parts in SB3, Also Ranmaru was the only member of the Oda to survive in the anime yet Koba has said numerous times he's dead in the events leading up to SB3.
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Kiheiji
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Miracle Violence
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Kojuro has been NPCfied, though (s**t!).

And I'm not sure about it being a continuation of the anime. Nobunaga and Hideyoshi, I think, are whacked so that Sekigahara coud be in. Yoshimoto, Nagamasa, Nou, Ran, and Mitsuhide are gone coz their deaths are related to Nobunaga and Hideyoshi.

But didn't Kennyo died in the anime?
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