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| Sengoku BASARA 3 (in NA: SB Samurai Heroes); Out in 2010 - PS3&Wii Multi! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:46 pm (399,330 Views) | |
| Matsunaga Hisahide | Sun Aug 9, 2009 11:38 pm Post #301 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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As our old friend Sun Tzu once said: "In peace prepare for war, in war prepare for peace." KOEI, didnīt really think someone would challenge them. I mean, besides CAPCOM, allmost no one tried to get a piece of the "KOEI-Warriors" pie. SE with Drakengard? Itīs not around anymore. But BASARA got footing on solid ground. Itīs style is itīs head, the gameplay is itīs body and the characters are the unshakable feet. You can say itīs the younger version of the "old" Warriors franchise. KOEI sat too high on itīs throne. And if I may say something else: "Bourbon is make of Whiskey. Whiskey is the original. But if you erease Whiskey, Bourbon becomes the original." from the anime GunGrave. Of course CAPCOM isnīt trying to erease KOEI, but you get the point. People donīt want allways to have the same. It works for several years and you may have some people who will stick with Whiskey, some may like both, but some will only like Bourbon from now on. CAPCOM isnīt hurt by creating such a "Bourbon"...but KOEIīs "Whiskey" is now rivaled by it, as it may be drunk once and the other time itīs rival or even be completely ignored. On this board, one huge KOEI community, Iīve allready seen a lot complaining about KOEI, even before the Samurai:Katana and DW6 fiasko. They want to have their favourite game genre in a new fashion. Something new, to drain with the old dusty taste of the "Warriors genre". CAPCOM saw, came and won. At least in some ways. They may be small but they are here. And thatīs what I meant, they shouldnīt go down the KOEI road now. They allready have a lot of Hackīn Slash/Beatīem Up/Action-fans, have a lot of the real casual gamers, a lot of fangirls, a lot of anime lovers and some of KOEIīs fanbase on their side. The only gamers missing, are the hardcore gamers, gamers, like those who own evey single Megaman game. How many titles does this franchise count, over 20-30? Those werenīt Jumpīn Run fans, cause even those might change the horse. Those were real hardcore gamers, who knew, that if thereīs the name Megaman on it, it canīt be that bad. CAPCOM made the mistake once and tried to milk Megaman, like KOEI milked the Warriors...but look what has become of it. A dying franchise. They realized they had to go another way and they made Megaman 9. It was a huge success. They made Street Fighter IV and completely listenend to their fans...it was a success. CAPCOM realized, that while Nintendo is creating those gaming-grannys, the hardcore gamers, those who have supported the gaming world for so long, arenīt dead yet. Those who played the first Megaman, are still yearning for a good Megaman. Those who suffered trough playing Ghosts 'n Goblins a second time, are still out there wanting a real challenge. Those who have thrown in countless coins, in Final Fight Arcade-Machines are still out there wanting to beat the crap out of enemys, with a friend. And you could do that in BASARA. In that point we can truly agree, HNB, thereīs only so much war, as those both see it fit to be. But CAPCOM doesnīt even need to go to war. CAPCOM allready has the upper-hand. It stroke, when the enemy excpected it the least. As you said CAPCOM has long experience with competition, since it had allmost everywhere a franchise for each genre. JumpīRuns, Fighting games, Beatīem Ups, Hackīn Slashs, Action, Adventure, Survival-Horror, Shooter...I bet for evey genre I said here, you remembered a famous CAPCOM game, right? And they even had mulitple sequels for these games...and thatīs no easy taks, keeping all those franchises and different genres alive, with so much competition...they know how to make the right moves... Especially with the BASARA manga, Drama CDs and SB anime. That surely has given it a huge boost in Japan and maybe even over here. As I said they allready have a lot of the KOEI base, etc... The only thing truly missing are their OWN hardcore gamers. Their OWN fanbase. And those would truly, not be satisfied with a KOEI-lazy-way production. But everyone else has to agree on one thing: KOEI is the one in the corner now. Theyīve made the first move. They have realized that they actually have to do something. Thatīs why they try it on the Wii now. They are slowly loosing the hardcore base, so they try if they can milk the casual gamers Nintendo created. Maybe itīll work, maybe not. Weīll see. But if KOEIīs strategy becomes a success...they wonīt need a war with CAPCOM anymore...and that would be bad for everyone of us...since they would do the same as theyīve allways done till now...and CAPCOM might become attracted to do the same and milk it down, like they did with the good old Megaman. Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Sun Aug 9, 2009 11:43 pm.
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| Ultimate Legend | Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:01 am Post #302 |
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Keeping it Cool.
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inb4 ports I think people are overreacting with all of this. Sure there's some competition but I think it isn't big enough to be considered war. But that's just me. |
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| DarkDante | Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:34 am Post #303 |
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A new power is rising
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Ok let's just make SB3 multi-platform across all consoles! That should satisfy everyone, Wii/PS2 version just has slightly worse graphics... |
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:21 am Post #304 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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Itīs not about a war or something like that, like you said. As HNB and I said, itīs about the fact, that competition, brought us the Playstation. It brought us the XBOX. It brought us various wonderfull games and improvements. If KOEI finally is in the need, to compete with CAPCOM, they finally have to do better than yet. And if that happens, maybe even CAPCOM will do the same and try to bring BASARA to thet top. I think we would all profit from that. Itīs not a NEXT-GEN war. It is competition. But war sounds far more dramatic
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| HokutoNoBen | Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:16 pm Post #305 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Right. But on the other hand, ol boy also said something to the effect of "Being able to subdue your foe, without actually fighting, is one of the greatest skills". How is this quote relevant to this particular argument? Well, here's one thing to chew over. In the last 2 years, we've seen Capcom do quite a bit to "experiment" with the BASARA brand. We've seen a 2D fighter by Arc Systems. We've seen various manga and audio dramas. We've seen a PSP game that was some what like Gundam vs. Gundam. And we've seen an anime. And this all occurred in the space of time from SB2H to now. So, what am I thinking? I'm wondering, at this point, if this is a sure that Capcom is willing to keep trying to experiment with the BASARA brand, proving that it's flexible, and able to persist beyond the realm of "jocking Koei's style". With that said, could it mean that, for BASARA 3, we may still be treated to what could be considered a "proper" BASARA sequel, but it will do more to effectively become its own entity all the while, severing the ties that bind BASARA and Musou even further? If so much occurs, then that would definitely do a lot to showcase that Capcom may be more interested in following this particular design philosophy that Tzu talked about, above. So, in other words, I actually agree more when you said:
After all, if Capcom is able to do all of this effectively, they won't even need to really worry about "fighting" Koei, they can just continue to do their own thing, and doing the damn thing while doing so. Honestly, this type of thing excites me even more than a "war" of any sort. BASARA should be doing more to become something unto itself, so that at least, the naysayers can't say that it gets by through the notion of "riding Musou's nuts". Plus, I could see BASARA amounting to more than a "Musou-like" any way. This is the same Capcom that gave me the likes of Alien vs. Predator and the D&D Beat Em Ups, Kobyashi should be able to provide something that can do those games' legacy proud, while also marrying "new school" technology to it, in my eyes. ![]() Edited by HokutoNoBen, Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:18 pm.
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:26 pm Post #306 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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I acutally agree with you. 100%. Thatīs something new As Iīve often stated, BASARA kinda gives the CAPCOM-Old School feeling, while adding in some new elemnts. I mean I never liked Cody, Guy or Hagar much...(Final Fight) But damn, the game was awesome, especially with a friend. But BASARA has lovable characters and this damn cool gameplay. They donīt need to make it a 2D Side-Scrolling game, but they could really try, as you said, to give it even more CAPCOM. So that no one, would even think about "Warriors" when he sees BASARA cause heīs so stunned with what they are seeing now. They should completely blow away this "another Warriors clone" feeling that a lot of people have. Besides that, after SB3, if CAPCOM wants to experiment a bit more, I wouldnīt mind a downloadable game in the Final Fight style with BASARA characters....I would love to play something like that....just an idea CAPCOM...you allready have the 2D sprites so....
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| BlackKite | Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:42 am Post #307 |
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長宗我部菜々
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Hmm... even though this week there's no Famitsu, there's still news from other sources. It's from the Nikkei newspaper.... apparently SB3 will be released on the Wii. http://www.nikkei.co.jp/news/sangyo/20090812AT1D1104H11082009.html Well, we would still have to wait for Capcom's official announcement, but if it's really Wii exclusive, then HnB really called it. Then again it's stated in the article that SB series 'is popular among girls'. As for me, as long as it's not exclusive for the 360, there's still chance for me to get the game. Hence even since before SW3 was announced to be Wii exclusive, I've been considering to get a Wii. But as I said previously, if this is only going to the Wii then I'll be on wait-and-see mode until whether "that girl" would be appearing in either game or not. ![]() .....wait, either...? Ah yes. This might mean the Musou vs Basara war could be more real than people have ever thought! (((;゚Д゚))) EDIT: Hmm, looks like this might not be actually true. Just now there's a statement from Capcom. Please look at my next post. Edited by BlackKite, Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:02 am.
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| DarkDante | Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:53 am Post #308 |
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A new power is rising
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Although I was beginning to expect it, still disappointing if it is true. Looks like Capcom have opted to take the lazy option, this game won't be much different from SW3: a few new characters and stages, with same last gen graphics and same last gen gameplay...
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| HokutoNoBen | Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:06 am Post #309 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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While a bit of a downer, I still say that the proof may in the pudding. Again, you only have to look to something like Monster Hunter Tri to see EXACTLY how a "next-gen" update of a game can still be a) very pretty and b) pushes the franchise in a new and exciting direction, even if it IS on the Wii. Even though I was hatin' on the notion that MH3 was made a Wii project instead of the PS3 original, I was impressed by what I've seen (and played) with friends. So, if BASARA 3 stands to do as much for the SB series as MH3 has done for its series? I'll be pleased, and any "real" fan (those not blinded by console war stuff) should be too. Besides, with Kobyashi touting about how this game will be "special", I'd like to think this means it won't be just a throw-away. Between BASARA, Monster Hunter and Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, Capcom could be making a very compelling case to show that they're willing to take the Wii seriously, even to the notion of giving it exclusive series. It's really just a matter if the gamers will respond in kind. TvC is going to get a second shot in the States in a few months. MH3 DEFINITELY made a resounding splash. SB3 could stand to slide right on in, right on the heels of MH3, if marketed correctly...2nd season of the anime airing in close proximity to the game's release would definitely help in this light. XD |
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| DarkDante | Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:10 am Post #310 |
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A new power is rising
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Well I'm still skeptical, the leap from SB to SB2 wasn't that big but that was understandable becuase Capcom were still "finding their feet" in the genre, but then they brought out Heros as well... I'm beginning to think that Capcom are starting to follow in a certain other company's footsteps... |
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| HokutoNoBen | Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:41 am Post #311 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Again, I disagree. I see the fact that Capcom has had a) a 2D fighting game from ASW, b) a PSP game that tried to be a GvG clone and c) a prime-time anime based on the series, and basically come to the conclusion that Capcom doesn't really "need" to follow in Koei's footsteps. They did as such so that they could make some quick cash utilizing established assets, but that's what any good company does when they want funds for bigger and better things. They can set their own trends for the BASARA series, such that they really don't have to actively compete with Musou at all. After all, this is the Capcom that created Final Fight as their own answer to Technos' Double Dragon, which then begot us various other Capcom-style brawlers like Alien vs. Predator and the D&D Brawlers. This is also the Capcom that brought us Street Fighter 2. SF2 certainly wasn't the first 2D Vs. Fighting game, but it WAS the one that actively did set the trend that so many others would follow. Hell, this is even the Capcom that made it so that Rockman X was quite a substantial leap forward from the NES games. So, there are precedents within Capcom's past, it's just a matter of when they choose to unleash such vigor (like for the recent MH3 example). Personally, I believe that Capcom could stand to do the same with BASARA, as well, if Kobyashi and crew push themselves, as such. Especially in this day and age, where the Musou brand has lost the unflappable clout it once had, leaving the door wide open for SB3 to possibly sweep in and set the tone for a new thing for this genre. Again, that's what I would love to see happen, and it's technically feasible for them to do on the Wii or PS3. After all, it's not like you NEED a HD console to push things forward. Hell, DMC4 exists as a good example of how a HD gloss of paint didn't do much to improve on where DMC3 left off, such that it's actually a step back in the eyes of some (including yours truly). An "SB3" that really was "SB2: HD", in disguise, would have disappointed me greatly, I would tell ya that much. Edited by HokutoNoBen, Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:43 am.
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| Hero of Legend | Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:15 am Post #312 |
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Sergeant
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In celebration of the game being announced for the Wii, I cleanly ripped the assets from the website. ![]() The art is transparent, you have to remove the /s512/ from the link to get the full-size, but it won't hotlink. ![]() http://picasaweb.google.com/GoldMetalSonic/SengokuBASARA3# ![]() ![]()
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| BlackKite | Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:29 am Post #313 |
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長宗我部菜々
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Whoa, thanks for the logo PNG. ![]() Anyway, just now there's an official statement from Capcom. Looks like that might not be entirely true? http://ir.capcom.co.jp/english/news/html/e090812.html |
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| Nine Demons Yoshitaka | Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:19 am Post #314 |
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Old men aficionado
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Capcom doesn't make any names though...they just say that info released today about a game of theirs isn't true. But the timing is just right...guess they mean Basara? At least this means that it won't be a Wii exclusive... @ Ben I'd hardly call 2:30 AM prime time, but I feel you on the rest ![]() The jump from SB1 to SB2 brought: 4 new playable characters (Keiji, Hideyoshi, Hanbei, Musashi) 2 NPCs turn PCs (the Motos) 5 new NPCs (Kotaro, Kennyo, Nagamasa, Oichi, Kojuro) A whole bunch of new stages (they more than doubled in number, IIRC) Lots of new lines for all chars (VS boss, for almost every stage, etc etc) Story modes for everyone except Musashi Relevant additions, no? Especially the last one...let's hope Basara 3 does even more (bring the chars to 36+...) |
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| Astus | Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:30 am Post #315 |
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Perhaps 37 would be a good number Welp, I'm really looking forward to seeing news on Basara whenever it is revealed. What I have seen so far from SW3 hasn't really blown me away. Sure, I'm as excited as heck because I'm a KOEI fanboy at heart and I do have a love for the SW series but from what has been revealed so far, there isn't much of a change. Let's see if Basara can capitalise on this opportunity and really entrench themselves as a completely viable alternate to the Musou series. Perhaps even convert some fans. If I'm being honest though, Devil Kings did not impress me at all. I found it unengaging and just boring to be quite honest. The fighting system didn't really present anything new. Granted, it was an adaptation of SB1 and Capcom have come a long way since then with the series so I'm excited to see what happens next. |
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:41 am Post #316 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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@Makishima!: You forgot the addition of the Gohon Yari @BK: Well...thatīs unexpected. If BASARA really is on the Wii, that statement was unnecessary. But since they reacted like this, it means that theyīve guessed right. If it were false, it would just be a rumor to CAPCOM, but since theyīve made a statement, it means they touched the truth. But whatīs that about, anyway? Are they ashamed that they are going to release it on the Wii? Whatīs done, is done. They can give us the plattform allready. Itīs no use, not to tell us. Whatīs with all the secrets?
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| BlackKite | Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm Post #317 |
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長宗我部菜々
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Uh... when they make a clarification, doesn't that mean they are saying the article mentioned is false? Moreover, in the Japanese language of the press release, they wrote 本報道にある内容は当社が発表したものではございません。 'That report was not made by our company' Well, at least the hope of the game to appear in PS3 still exists with this... at least for me. ![]() Of course making it a PS3-Wii multi, albeit seemingly unthinkable, would be an epic win for almost all Japanese players. |
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| DarkDante | Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:55 pm Post #318 |
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A new power is rising
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Yeah that it was I thought as well, why got to all the trouble to release a statement about a internet rumour in the first place? that is unless it's true... Whatever, I'm over the Wii thing just give us some INFO already!! I want to know who the two mystery characters are. |
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:10 pm Post #319 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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Today, there was a certain report about Capcom in certain media. We will make a necessary public announcement about product information when deemed appropriate. So, it doesnīt say they were wrong. It only said, the real system is still unannounced. CAPCOM hasnīt confirmed anything yet and they will give us the product information, if CAPCOM sees fit. Thatīs what I meant. Itīs like, a child finding out about itīs christmas present from his sister and when it asks itīs parents about it, they just say, youīll find out on christmas. At least thatīs what it says in my eyes. Iīve stated a lot of reasons why a PS3 release would be better for CAPCOM, the fans and BASARA, but in the end, it was just my personal struggle with the fact, that HNB was right, with the high possibility of a Wii release...I would say around 75% that itīs a Wii release. 25% due to the fact, that they make such a secret of it, that the PS3 has seen a huge boost in the last year till now, that CAPCOM announcement about an un-known PS3 exclusive and that the last 4 games were on a Sony console/handheld. 75% becuase CAPCOM is a company that goes, were the money flows and that seems now, on Nintendoīs milk machine, they allready tried how SB2/SB2:H would sell on the Wii, the Monster Hunter Tri Wii release(which is really popular in Japan, same as BASARA, while Resident Evil 5 and Bionic Commando are more popular in the USA/EU) And thereīs still a huge factor we have to consider: They can make a Wii release AND a PS2 release at the same time. A lot of people still own a PS2 in Japan and itīs still selling. So a lot of the previous SB fans are able to play it on the PS2/Wii, PS2 players would get a new game for their console and there are new gamers to conquer on the Wii. Thatīs what Iīm afraid of, that they will try to stay on the safe side, just for the sake of money. That would bring BASARA a step backwards, but CAPCOM would feel like theyīve still achieved something. At least on the financial side. But as youīve stated BK, a PS3/Wii/PS2 port would be more than awesome, cause some many players would be able to play the game, which would let CAPCOM profit in so many ways and BASARA would enjoy even more attention. But thatīs only a 0% chance...but 0 is still a number... Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:11 pm.
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| Claus | Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:38 pm Post #320 |
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old hag
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Ugh, No "wii exclusive" please. I just want to be able to play SB3, okay, i dont even care if it comes out only in japan, i will simply import it. Seriously, i could care less if Capcom needs to put SB3 on the wii to boost sales, just as long as it isn't exclusive, if comes out on PS3 or even Ps2 i will be estatic, even if the wii "brings down the graphics" as some poeple tend to whine about when it comes to the wii, i dont care, i really just want to play SB3 on my sony machine. And hopefullly when this statement from Capcom is released they will start pumping out the info. wait, maybey thats why the info was released before, maybey it was just to spark Capcom into releasing info.... A boy can hope cant he?
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| Mr.Honda | Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:05 pm Post #321 |
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Haha, I had read this earlier on Kotaku. Seems Capcom was quick to respond. Capcom and KOEI are sticking eerily close together with these titles ... |
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| HokutoNoBen | Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:33 pm Post #322 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Today, there was a certain report about Capcom in certain media. We will make a necessary public announcement about product information when deemed appropriate. Translation from PR-ese: "We didn't necessarily WANT you guys to know what's up at this time, but yeah...it's true. (Damn those jungle bunnies for releasing information before WE were ready!)" XD I mean, notice the wording. They didn't deny anything, they just basically said something to the effect of "Please look forward to the official word". It's almost as bad as what happened with Tatsunoko vs. Capcom last year. The information relating to where the game was going to end up was leaked basically a number of weeks before the official Famitsu reveal, not unlike what's going on here. Of course, Capcom officially just said "Wait for the official word" in that case too... 8D Frankly, I'm surprised the English PR side even bothered translating this much, unless it's just something they do any way. I mean, unless BASARA 3 has any hope of being released in the West, this information is not pertinent to us. |
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:38 pm Post #323 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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Again we think the same thing But you mentioned something I didnīt even thought about: They translated it. Why would they bother? ...okay. CAPCOM has english speaking investors too, but why would they be concerned...hmm...okay...but itīs still a small ray of hope. Thanks to this developement: Small ray of hope for: PS3 release of SB3 Small ray of hope for: English release of SB3 I guess both will be crushed this month, but as long as they are here, Iīll hold them tightly. Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:38 pm.
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| BlackKite | Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:00 pm Post #324 |
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長宗我部菜々
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Hmm, well, FYI, this is what the first sentence should have been in the JP language. 本日、一部報道機関におきまして、当社の記事が掲載されましたが、本報道にある内容は当社が発表したものではございません。 Today, there was a certain media writing an article about our company, however the contents of the article were not published by us. Well, when I analyze this sentence further as well as looking at more JP news blogs, looks like this indeed is not a total dismissal message. It's just like the others here have said: It's kinda true, but just wait for our official announcement for more definite info I guess we can pretty much confirm that we've already gotten one more puzzle piece: It will be released on Wii. But it may be not stopping there. Maybe the possibility of a multi-release with PS3 is more likely than you think. You know, even though the PS3 has more projected game number than 360, it doesn't just mean that there will be a PS3 exclusive; it could also mean that the game could be also released in a console other than PS3, but obviously not the 360. Oh, and not to mention the references in Toro Station which is obviously a PS3 newsfeed. Capcom would be marked the greatest troll in my book if they didn't release this on PS3 despite providing all those references to Toro. ![]() After all, why would they hide the console information in the first place? Maybe because usually when a game is released on the PS3 there is 80% chance it'll be also going to 360, but a multi-release with Wii would be hardly heard of, so they're saving it for a big surprise? ![]() __________ And speaking about Capcom press releases, looks like they translate almost every PR they publish, even if they are Japan-only. If you surf through Capcom's IR site a bit further, you can notice that they are also posting the PR about SB's live stage play in English.
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:38 pm Post #325 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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Ah, I know that, I receive their E-Mails every day...donīt know why I registered on the CAPCOM IR part...but they provide interesting news Since they had, as I said, half a year to plan, 2 years of developing/programming/well making the game and half a year to advertise/perfect the game I can say without a doubt that: A) They really must have a damn good Wii-engine. Since 2 years for a KOEI-work Wii game, would be more than pathetic. B) They made an engine for the PS3, programmed the new stuff added in SB3 and just took the rest from SB-Double Pack for the Wii and the PS2 and make the grand surprise announcement. They would have allmost 100% of possible buyers...in terms of consoles. Cause allmost everyone in Japan owns a PS2, PS3 or a Wii. It would reach a lot of people. They would probably sell the PS3 version for around 60 bucks and the Wii version for around 40-50 bucks. Iīm not sure with the PS2 version, but I would guess around 30 bucks. Itīs a plan, that would not only surprise, but sure rise a lot of attention. Itīs a WIN-WIN situation, since A) people who like graphics are pleased, B) people who like the Wii more or only own the Wii are pleased and C) people who just own the PS2 are even more pleased(may it be money reasons or whatever, there are PS2 only owners out there) CAPCOM would have a foolproof master plan. It could still be a PS3 only, Wii only release...but the Toro case and the Wii-discovery...the fact that CAPCOM has neither denied nor confirmed anything yet, even though KOEI allready showed new characters, screenshots, a trailer, made a press conference and leaked informations to magazines... CAPCOM cīmon, itīs getting boring. Itīs really boring. Just say the damn plattform. First start a hype and then let it dry down till it starves. What a joke.
Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:40 pm.
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8:18 PM Jul 11