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| Sengoku BASARA 3 (in NA: SB Samurai Heroes); Out in 2010 - PS3&Wii Multi! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:46 pm (399,117 Views) | |
| Matsunaga Hisahide | Sat May 1, 2010 11:14 pm Post #5626 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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And I wanted to stop... Donīt worry, Iīll just explain why you canīt compare the situation of BlazBlue with Sengoku BASARA and why (and I hope we all agree on that point...) 15 characters would be a joke. Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Sat May 1, 2010 11:16 pm.
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| FlameMasterAJ | Sat May 1, 2010 11:19 pm Post #5627 |
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Corrupted Flame
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awesome stuff man, lets continue complaining! |
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Sat May 1, 2010 11:27 pm Post #5628 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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Thatīs my intention. But really. The only issue right now are the characters (and Kobayashi is a dickhead) Sadly, the characters are an important part in games like that, even more in BASARA, that simply lives from itīs characters. So with 15 characters playable at the moment and still no sight of the promised "a lot new characters to make up for the cuts"...is a bit depressing now. You are right that complaining should stop (Iīm an exception, since if Koba can be a hypocrit, Iīm a better one ... KOBAYASHIIIII!!!!) for now at least, since that there are a lot of NPCs, cut characters and questionable new character additions are old news and not worth being "raged" about.Whatīs interesting now is what Koba intends to do, aginst the lame 15 characters situation. Thus letīs be surprised. I predict his next move will be Zabii PC and Otomo Sorin NPC. Since most of the time, the opposite of what I say happens, we should be happy about something sometime in the near future.
Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Sat May 1, 2010 11:29 pm.
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| Keneticam | Sat May 1, 2010 11:30 pm Post #5629 |
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Right.......
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I really don't think this is the end of the new playable characters. We still have a bit more time until the game releases. Who's to say they won't show like a kazillion characters at the last second. Koei certainly did that with DW6, eventhough that turned out to be a big FAIL. Have hope guys, theres still time for Koba to make a turn around.
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| FlameMasterAJ | Sat May 1, 2010 11:31 pm Post #5630 |
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Corrupted Flame
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now that i think about, i agree with you on one thing: The fact he 'promised' us more characters. I understand the frustration here, especially with that said. If he just said we are focusing on new characters along with bringing back favorites, maybe the uproar wouldn't be here, but it is a tad ridiculous and comedic, to move on with this in mind. Instead, let's focus on the gameplay. I wish I could expect something very complex from a hack n slash, but that wont happen. Was hoping DMC would cure me when it first came out, but it was based on locked on schemes. Who knows, though. |
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| Gakupo | Sat May 1, 2010 11:54 pm Post #5631 |
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This. Thus far the games have had a history with a big bad evil guy who is in some way, shape, or form involved in the other characters' stories. Before the announcement of this game I thought the next badguy would be Ieyasu since it was on track that the next main antagonist would've been him as he was the next and last of the three big unifiers. Obviously this wouldn't have gelled well with history since Tokugawa won the country in the end and so to have the country finally unified under a "tyrant" wouldn't have been too smart. I back DK up 100% when he says that Mitsunari just doesn't scream 'evil' enough for him to be a bonafide villain. Don't get me wrong, I like how he looks and all that but if Kobayashi is indeed planning for him to be this iteration's villain he just doesn't stack up to the likes of Nobunaga, Hideyoshi and Hisahide. All he's been touting is his desire for revenge against Ieyasu and that's all we really know that's driving him. I don't wanna call him one-dimensional since the game isn't out and therefore I have no evidence to back that claim up but if he IS to be the villain then he's gonna have to step up big time. Should this upcoming even be used to showcase at least some of the playable villain-type characters *coughMatsunagacough*? **** yeah! Will it? Hard to say... A part of me wants to believe so but another part is saying all it'll be is reiterating what we've already seen in videos and magazines just with more fanfare. |
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| Ouelis | Sun May 2, 2010 12:16 am Post #5632 |
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The Smooth Sound of the Ocean
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I really, really, REALLY doubt that Mitsunari is the "villain" here. I mean, just by the way he is presented in the opening he strikes me as a voilent and chaotic force to be sure, but I think if they really meant to make him the antagonist they wouldn't have had the whole end part of the opening, where they square of in the Fanta pool. By the way, I tried checking out a color mixer, and I think the whole orange fluid thing is there because blending Mitsunari's purple with Ieyasu's yellow can give an orange color. Don't quote me on that though. I mean, just look at the openings from the previous games. First one; Giant Nobunaga will eat your soul. Second; Hideyoshi will beat you into a fine slop, put it in a blender, mix it up, freeze that resulting mess and then proceed to beating that into dust. In this one, Mitsunari just doesn't amount to any of that, and I don't think he's supposed to. Mitsunari and Ieyasu is just another more dramatic rivalry, in the same lines as Masamune and Yukimaru. So, if there truly is supposed to be a genuine "bad guy" we've yet to see him, I think. Or it's Yoshitsugu. Don't get me wrong, I don't consider him "evil" as such, but in my mind he's a lot shiftier and devious then Mitsunari. So as I said, bring on that glorious, magnificent bastard . |
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| Matsunaga Hisahide | Sun May 2, 2010 12:31 am Post #5633 |
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Eyes of the devil, smile of a winner
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Well, the problem with Hackīn slash games is finding a way between complex and simple. A lot of the people complain that BASARA just isnīt as deep as other games, like God of War or namely Devil May Cry. Well...thatīs a pointless argument. Not to mention the difference in budget. But it still comes down to the same stuff as BASARA and Warriors games. Dude/Women slashing/beating the crap out of things. In other games there might be some variety by adding a puzzle that even a headless chicken could solve or by some uninspired "press circle to open door" events, but all in all...you kill a lot of things. In most of the other action/hackīn slash games you have one to four characters who might use some different weapons with a hell of a loooong move list. Out of if it youīll probably spam your favourite move over and over again (probably the one that makes lot of blood come out), but since there are so many possible moves you can choose to spam over and over again, itīs called "fighting system with a lot of depth and variety". A game like BASARA or the Warriors series gives you over 20 boys and girls that have 20 different moves at most. (counting in arial attacks, BASARA, etc.) Thatīs why youīll probably spent the time spamming the first three attacks of the S-string plus a skill that clears out the crowds over and over again. So in the "movesets you need to study" is the flaw, that A) most of them are probably never used or pretty much useless anyway B) youīll constantly forget the hard to do ones, thus ending up pressing start to look up how it worked and C) itīs easier to just press a button constantly and still get the job done The problem with the "moveset you can count on a misfitted hand" is that people want to have so much stuff theyīll probably never even use, just to know, that thereīs stuff they didnīt use yet. Itīs called greed and it works pretty well in our society. So youīll never please everyone, since either itīs too simple and the others are too complex. (Ninja Gaiden for example...so many weapons, so many moves...just spam the move were the "head comes off" and itīs fun too) So itīs just a like it or not situation, since some thinks itīs charming to beat your way through waves of same looking enemies with the same two buttons like the old school Beatīem ups a la Final Fight or Comix Zone, others think itīs missing some one hour cutscenes, paired with some exciting "get A to point B to get C back to A to open D" puzzles and some backtracking sequences were you play the same **** all over again, just with a new move. Thatīs why I normally say, when someone says BASARA sucks compared to Ninja Gaiden cause itīs missing some ultra long mega complex movesets, that while he plays one badass ninja, I get to play 5 badass villains, 3 badass ninjas, 2 one eyed kickass cool guys, 2 strong and badass women, 1 psychotic hellspawn women, 1 badass power ranger and a lot of other characters were I can set badass in front of them. But that argument fails when I say 5 badass villains were 3 are dead, 1 might still be a NPC and 1 is a monk NPC that tries to hide under a piece of paper, 2 strong and badass women while 1 is dead too and 1 is uplayable, 3 badass ninjas were 2 of them are again doing some jutsu to make themselves unplayable and the power ranger is...surprise...dead and trying to make a list with a badass pink school girl with big bright round eyes and an unplayable might be playable Beetlewuss/a guy slurping tea while twirling his mustache.... Of course Mitsunari, Yoshitsugu, Kanbei and Magoichi are a start...even Tsuruhime to an extend. But if you count in the losses and then what we won, itīs not something Iīd build a memorial for and be proud of the sacrifices we gave for it. So give me something to fight with, Koba EDIT And yes. Those arenīt some triple A super badguys, since allmost all of them have a simple reason for doing so (Mistunari hating the world, wants revenge, kills everyone. Yoshitsugu hating the world, wants revenge, kills everyone) And as I said, if Tenkai never even crosses paths with Ieyasu then he canīt be a super villain. Since a super villain has to face off with the good guy at some point spilling his plan and his reasons (Nobunaga just for the sake of it, Hideyoshi cause heīs bigger than you) and we allready know the motives and the end result of those super baddies. Kill a lot of people. Not so shocking if you consider thier personalities. We allready had the "killing for killing" so how about some really deep bad guy this time? Someone that no one understands at the moment, who seems to have no reason for doing what heīs doing, who helps characters while hurting them, someone that betrays just to help them again, someone who just doesnīt make any sense and still understands everyone else and reads them like a comic book. Who could fit in that role? Edited by Matsunaga Hisahide, Sun May 2, 2010 12:44 am.
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| Gakupo | Sun May 2, 2010 12:35 am Post #5634 |
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@Ouelis: Agreed. The mummy is a lot more 'villainy' than the emo. Who knows, maybe after Hideyoshi got wasted by Ieyasu, Mitsunari was like, "Man, this sucks. Someone should do something" and that was it. Angry but lacked the courage to stand up and do something about it. Then Yoshitsugu comes along and continually eggs him on to take action by telling him people think he's a coward or something like that until Ishida reaches boiling point, flips out, and decides it's time to oppose Ieyasu for the sake of Hideyoshi. In any case, if Otani IS the true antagonist of the game we still lack 'badguy' characters and besides, that tea kettle smashing bastard can add some class to the villains while he's at it. |
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| Balder | Sun May 2, 2010 1:27 am Post #5635 |
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[expletive boat sounds]
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In before Yoshitsugu getting off his palanquin in the final stage and going all Mumm-Ra on the unlucky runt standing before him and delivering the greatest final boss fight of all time. Would be friggin' awesome and you know it! On a semi-related serious note, I personally would like if the game's story climax had a 1-on-1 final boss fight in a epic scenery. I have said before Mitsunari didn't fill the shoes of the previous villains, alas I must concede his "Devil Trigger" had me changing my opinion on his villanous potential. But indeed, this is the time to call out the big guns, especially since this year has been rather rough on us fans so far. What's the balance: 6 NPCs and 2 PCs, both of these being returning veterans? So yes, I believe we are legit to ask for something grand. Though I'm a fan of the Magnificent Bastard, I do believe we could definitely use a new face of villainy, perhaps the one behind the nasty things done by the Eastern army. *crossing fingers for either Takatora or Kiyomasa...you guys convinced me on their potential* |
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| eklineage | Sun May 2, 2010 1:55 am Post #5636 |
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God of the Valkyrur
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Hmm... now that you mention it... Yoshi and Mitsunari do not fill the shoes of the previous villains. I mean.. Hideyoshi and Nobu-chan are hard to top in terms of villain badness. Maybe Koba will pull something crazy out of nowhere... like... Yoshi and Mitsunari combine to become a megazord. HAHA. |
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| Hondam | Sun May 2, 2010 2:24 am Post #5637 |
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Harbaugh So Hard
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Best post in this thread? I think so. And I'm going to bring up another point again- this game is a hell of a lot more than what its being equated to by a fair majority. Some of you are acting like we're literally getting nothing. Uh...what? Do any of you remember SB1? 3 is miles ahead of 1 in terms of quality AND quantity. Hell, SB2? 3 is already, well **** it, it already IS more than we got in SB2. The only game that 3 has yet to match in the quantity department is HEROES- and even then, the quality of 3 faaaar exceeds HEROES'. MP said it well, and I and NDY have also said it numerous times- the pros of this game far outweigh the cons. By a long shot. Some of you are still stuck up on the NPC thing as if that's the deciding factor for this game, which is just silly. Yeah it blows, yeah we lost a lot of favorites (I lost 4 of mine, potentially 5), but we all know that they WILL be back. And even then, the characters we do have already, and the ones we WILL be getting (this game does not have a 15-character roster. Stop with that already) are so immensely improved compared to past titles that its amazing, yet a lot of you are still stuck up on the idea that the roster is sub-par and lacking (SB1 had what, 16 characters? 2 of which were clones, so 14?) and this in turn makes the game sub-par and lacking. I mean, have you been watching the videos? Have you seen how much better and improved the gameplay is compared to every past title? It's insane that this complaining, which has come down to nothing but angry posts at Kobayashi, is still going on. I'll say it again- Pros far outweigh the cons, and yet if this still remains to be seen by some of you then there's a GREAT solution! Take a break from this thread and this game. If it is sooooo dissapointing to some of you, and Kobayashi is suuuuuch a troll and the embodiment of all that is bad, then just simply...walk out for the time being?
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| wodash | Sun May 2, 2010 3:05 am Post #5638 |
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undefeated in all directions
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hmm,i GOT to comment on these stuffs,seeing that many had brought it up again Spoiler: click to toggle oh and BTW,even though hideyoshi was pictured as the "big bad" for SB2 he never made it to become that image outside from his appearance in the OP vid and his own storyline,only keiji had certain grudge at him and even then keiji still tries to forget it at the end and most of the time his "death scene" aren't as epic as TRUE badasses like nobunaga(got burned complete with huge NOBUNAGA IS DEAD flavor text,falls from azuchi castle due to his own shotgun recoil AFTER giving your character a beating of a lifetime TWICE) or matsunaga(blows himself up) so yeah,with that out the way,its safe to say there is no main antagonist this time around,its back to "each character is the main antagonist for the other character" IMO Edited by wodash, Sun May 2, 2010 3:07 am.
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| eklineage | Sun May 2, 2010 3:05 am Post #5639 |
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God of the Valkyrur
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@ Hondam I don't get why you are getting worked up over the opinions of others. Some people like a big roster and others have other priorities.As for SB1 having a small roster... I never realized SB3 is the first SB game. Why should ppl walk out of a thread just cuz they disagree with something? I thought this was a discussion. Not some koba ass licking thread. The gameplay is improved, no1 is disagreeing with you there. If you don't like DK's posts(which he put in spoilers so you can read at your own risk) then just don't reply to them. Sorry if I'm harsh. But I think the ppl of both sides are being pushy as hell. |
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| Gakupo | Sun May 2, 2010 3:24 am Post #5640 |
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@eklineage I think one of the issues Hondam is referring to is the fact that those same opinions about roster size and Kobayashi's decisions derail the entire point of the thread, which is to discuss the game, for like 5 pages before someone finds something else to talk about. Usually the detraction(s) is/are the same few points just worded differently and expanded upon. Obviously people are gonna be irked about things missing in the game and all that but that's what the complaints thread is for is it not? EDIT: Hondam also brings up some good points about the improvements between this game and past iterations and isn't that what counts when it boils down to it? Improving the game right? It may be a double-edged sword but hey, I'll hop on the wagon with him and look forward to all the new stuff this game will bring .
Edited by Gakupo, Sun May 2, 2010 3:28 am.
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| Hondam | Sun May 2, 2010 3:26 am Post #5641 |
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Harbaugh So Hard
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Opinions or complaining for the sake of complaining? And my point with SB1 was that people are equating 3 to being the worst of the series and somehow less of a game than past titles. Clearly not the case. All I'm getting at (Koba ass licking...? I don't think I've defended the man anywhere, so...) is that the complaining, which has been beaten to damn ****ing death by now, is going around in circles and doing nothing to add to this game or the discussion (which some people are still trying to bring up in a positive, worthwhile form). We get it, koba is a douche (this is nothing new. He's been the exact same "troll" since SB1. We know already) and you hate the direction of the game. OK, and? All I'm asking is WHY would you (and this isn't at you ekl, you in general) stick around here? spoilers or not, it's still being posted numerous times reiterating the exact same thing that we all know. I'm not trying to start some stupid battle of opinions vs. opinions or members against members- just putting out a great solution that really isn't that hard: If the game is such a disappointment and you hate Koba, why still bother posting here? Until there's something you find to like, overstating and posting the same rants and complaining in THIS thread (again, complaints thread...) is just beyond understanding. If someone doesn't like this one game, then simply walk away for the time being. There's opinions and then there's just hating for the sake of hating. I'll gladly shut up about this whole thing after this post, but all I'm trying to get across is that the solution is clear to those who can't find any decency or joy out of the game: just walk away or even simpler, stop complaining in this thread. It saves spam, it saves others from seeing what we've already known, it saves the horse from being beaten to death over and over and over and over, and it'll give room for actual positive discussions on a game which is a lot more than some ball of dung rolled up by Koba. Edit- Gakupo summed it up in a much shorter post than I could.
Edited by Hondam, Sun May 2, 2010 3:31 am.
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| eklineage | Sun May 2, 2010 3:27 am Post #5642 |
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God of the Valkyrur
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Don't think too much of it. I was just putting it out there. Well.. let's just hope for more info soon then lol. It's clear the lack of new info is ... causing restlessness.
Edited by eklineage, Sun May 2, 2010 3:28 am.
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| AdventGreatness | Sun May 2, 2010 3:31 am Post #5643 |
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Emperor's Retainer
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Complaints thread: http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/topic/6695252/1/?x=90#new Well, anyways, when is the next famitsu being released? |
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| Claus | Sun May 2, 2010 3:46 am Post #5644 |
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old hag
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WE KNOW! >.< Famitsu releases on tuesday,like every week. Anyway, all this darn complaining really put me off of posting for the last two or so days. Its unnecessary, yes we know you hate Koba, we know you;re worries for this game, no use saying whats already been said. For what its worth, I'm on the boat of, "This game looks hella good, NPCs or no, I'm going to enjoy this, Pros outweigh cons". I don't think this game will have a big bad, it will most likely focus on the inner big bads of each character, everyone having their own demons to face off with. |
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| ~in3vitableTIMING~ | Sun May 2, 2010 4:26 am Post #5645 |
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"Thanks Partner" - Sheva Alomar
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You have to think about that very carefully because there are different way of milking your fans you can do it the GOOD way RE5 for example they made the game they sold the game, but even before the title went on to the shelfs they had "gold" and extra costumes in mind something to bring the fans back or give the old skool ones what they wanted (which fans wasn't even aware of and to be honest didn't need) and theres bad milking Knowing your going to have to buy an expansion pack to be happy because the original product is not up to scratch.... If i personally was making a title under such scrutiny i wouldn't be pleased with myself (if i took things seriously). and to be honest when your working for a big company like capcom I don't think producers worry about overseas marketing that much which is a very big problem for Basara Westerners are turned of by it and with out reassurance its not going to go far if this title flops they WILL NOT try again (and it frustrates me because Basara is great material) but are they putting everything in to it to make westerners that haven't played Basara want to play it ?, simply No. And as for the comparison, they way i see things if your doing it wrong listen or observes someone whos doing it right. I'm sure Koba knows the company hes working for is a successful one and he has made great games that are fan favourite to westerners so... whats the problem, Can't he simply look at where hes done right to fix where hes going wrong (COMMON SENSE) ok i'm done maybe its just me but the answer is so clear its driving me mad LMAO! maybe Koba is a free sprit or he doesn't have much common sense or he hates to admit failure (btw that DMC interview crack my up, in denial or what). Like i've said before I haven't casted my final say on the game I haven't played it but i do know characters wasn't the main focus on this title (so he shouldn't pretend that it is) I really hope people take to this game well because its one of my favourites and its replaced the musou series for me Which wasn't an easy Job to do. The way I see things, You always give your best and when the best is over you give your greatest but somehow i'm getting the impression from your post thats a bad thing lol (No Offence) Money doesn't breed creativity you either have it or you don't but there is such thing as people gaining it or EVEN losing it which i fear maybe Koba's case. I understand about business plans, the 3 P's pre/pro/post, marketing but i'm coming from the creative side and you don't need a budget to be good at it. BUT on a lighter note whats this about some Good news?? aren't we getting info next week? EDIT: I apologies up front if this sounds rude but whats up with everyone burying their head in the sand, Its like Bad things don't exist here if Koba has done wrong and you feel like giving an idea/suggestion on how to put it right... why do they have to get sent to the naughty corner? Edited by ~in3vitableTIMING~, Sun May 2, 2010 4:41 am.
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| Jsun | Sun May 2, 2010 4:52 am Post #5646 |
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KOEI Warriors Forever!
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Question for some SB vets, but has the armor always fallen off whenever you attack an enemy? Armor falling off? What does the marking on the butt of Mitsunari's sword say? (his crest right?) Butt sword??? what the heck is going on here? And I totally agree with you Hondam about all these people complaining. It's ridiculous and people should just do it somewhere else. This is getting worse than when DW6 had the character cuts. Wish you were still on staff then things might be a little different around here like old times
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| ~in3vitableTIMING~ | Sun May 2, 2010 5:06 am Post #5647 |
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"Thanks Partner" - Sheva Alomar
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KMT!!
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| Gakupo | Sun May 2, 2010 5:35 am Post #5648 |
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1. As far as I can remember the armor of any enemy has never fallen off. Their weapons go flying off but not the armor so there's a small added touch. 2. The butt of Mitsunari's sword is his clan crest. I have no idea what I means but that's what it is. 3. That scene happened after Ieyasu beat Masamune and then a bunch of his swords came falling down. Couldn't tell you HOW a bunch of them became unsheathed but that's what happened. I think it was the TGS trailer that had that particular scene in it. |
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| Jsun | Sun May 2, 2010 5:47 am Post #5649 |
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KOEI Warriors Forever!
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Ah okay, I was wondering what the deal was with the armor. I saw this image and thought the green man was another character or something, but it was just an armorless guy. The last 5 gameplay videos will be Keiji, Oichi, Shimazu, Kotaro, and Honda. |
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| ChibiGingi | Sun May 2, 2010 6:21 am Post #5650 |
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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@Hondam- You're assuming we've all got to play SB1 in the first place. We Americans didn't GET Sengoku Basara, we got DEVIL KINGS. By proxy, SB3 is a million light years ahead of DK. So, no argument there. Also, SB is the first game in the series... it's kind of automatically given some tiny bit of leeway because it's the first one. There are going to be issues, such as a small cast, broken characters and NPCs. I'd just figure with at least three games under their belt they'd improve with the roster, but seriously, whatever. Even half finished, it's still better than Devil Kings. Steaming pile of poop has the potential to be better than another Devil Kings. @Jsun- That's set in stone or just a prediction? Honestly, I'm not surprised either way... finish this game up and get to work on that smexy expansion that we all know Capcom is working on, I say. |
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![]](http://z2.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)


... KOBAYASHIIIII!!!!) for now at least, since that there are a lot of NPCs, cut characters and questionable new character additions are old news and not worth being "raged" about.


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8:16 PM Jul 11