Hollywood, vs. the Illiad. Legends of Troy

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Hollywood, vs. the Illiad. Legends of Troy
Topic Started: Aug 5 2009, 04:12 PM (262 Views)
The Trojan Horse	Aug 5 2009, 04:12 PM Post #1
First Lieutenant Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #22,990 Joined: July 31, 2009 Gender Male	Have you ever noticed that Hollywood takes a book and 9 times out of 10 screws it up? Or takes something out of history, and turns it on it's ear? The Illiad and the Odessey are two books that Hollywood has abused, time and time again. Either they are devoid of braincells, or what cells they do have are all collectively between thier legs. For example, let's discuss Paris and Helen. Two characters that put into motion the Trojan War. Sadly I think Koei will fall into the Hollywood trap in making thier game. Hollywood says, and so does Koei that Love started the Trojan war. But, not so if you read the Illiad. What did start the war was, Lust, Murder, Theft, Pride, Greed and Revenge. First Love. When the Illiad talks of Paris love for Helen, or Helen's attaction for Paris it uses the word eros which means lust or phyical attraction. Paris sails to see Helen and finds her husband gone, Helen hears that Paris is good looking and is attracted to his youth. Never mind the fact that Paris is already married, as is she. Due to Paris lust, and Helen's whims, he murders the King of Spartha's servants, takes Helen, and adds insult to injury, steals the royal treasury! As for Helen, she left her little baby girl behind to run with Paris. BAD momma. You see it wasn't love that "Sailed a thousand Ships". It was revenge for Helen's husband, the chance for loot and fame for the rest of the Argives and in the case of Agememnon a chance for gaining Power. As Tina Turner said "Whats love got ta do with it?!?" That said, Hollywood misses the point of the story, big time. The Illiad in a way is, the ULTIMATE story of why, you shouldn't let your "THING" rule your life!! (note: The end of Paris then is a very fitting end, since he gets a arrow in the groin, and suffers greatly. He then goes to his wife, he threw away for Helen, since it was said, she was the only one that was able to heal him. You can imagine what happened. "A Woman Scorned". Needless to say Paris dies.) I think the Illiad's story is far superior to hollywood's tales. What do you think? Edited by The Trojan Horse, Aug 14 2009, 02:59 PM.



Xuan Zhongda	Aug 5 2009, 04:26 PM Post #2
You're just that bad. Posts: 545 Group: Members Member #21,435 Joined: March 25, 2009	I say I like the story above. More depth.
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Kittn	Aug 6 2009, 04:20 AM Post #3
Zhou Yu's Lap Cat Posts: 369 Group: Members Member #9,843 Joined: September 21, 2007 Gender Female	I'd say don't get your hopes up. Koei has been notoriously (mis)using the RoTK novel for their DW based games. And even then, they don't follow the novel - sometimes pulling ideas out their... well who knows where they get them... Without even touching history in most cases, when the actual history of the era has a lot of untapped potential without the gross exaggerations and misrepresentations of the characters as they are in the novel. A true 'historical' game would be quite refreshing for the DW/RoTK series I think. But I don't see them being of the same mind. So... I don't see them taking any different approach to this game either. But who knows...? Guess it will be a case of PAFO. Or perhaps, wait till someone else plays it and find out from them.
	Mah Devious Arts \| Xbox live Gamertag: TRUKITTN \| Challenge Me!


The Trojan Horse	Aug 6 2009, 04:55 AM Post #4
First Lieutenant Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #22,990 Joined: July 31, 2009 Gender Male	I believe your right Kittn. Just from the statement from Koei I have read, it seems they are going the hollywood route. Sad really because the Illiad has a much more compelling story to tell. BTW: Your avatar is the best on this site!! (I'm a cat person myself)



Sera	Aug 6 2009, 01:24 PM Post #5
Commander Posts: 950 Group: Members Member #9,616 Joined: September 11, 2007	Regarding the Hollywood vs. the Illiad subject, I'd repeat more or less what I already said in The Trojan Horse's introduction thread, so I'll just quote myself from there: "It seems we have something in common, and I'll let these old posts speak for me: http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/single/?p=8179833&t=6595731 http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/single/?p=8200202&t=6608156 . Now you can understand how your statement about the Iliad and Hollywood made me smile. And I'm not speaking about the more recent transpositions, which I haven't watched. I'm speaking about those 60s movies (loosely) based on Greek Mythology: now I can say they were just made to be fun and I take them for what they are, but years ago I was much harsher to those unfaithful transposition (the same could be said about other books, like The Three Musketeers)." So yes, I agree on what you said, "Hollywood takes a book and 9 times out of 10 screws it up". You don't know what my reaction was when I heard that a movie "based" on the Iliad was in production few years ago XD. I don't even know whether it was good or not: as I said before, I didn't bother to watch it. Now, maybe I'm less harsh than years ago, anyway the way KOEI based the Dynasty Warriors series on the novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms doesn't usually annoy me, even if it's not always so faithful. Probably, the DW series isn't perfectly faithful to the novel still in an acceptable and "pleasant" way, according to my taste.



Astus	Aug 6 2009, 01:33 PM Post #6
Frakkin' Toaster Posts: 2,755 Group: Admins Member #8,568 Joined: July 17, 2007 Gender Male	I still think that the tale itself was heavily romanticised. Troy itself sat on a very strategically sound area. The basically controlled the Hellespont. So if there was a war, I believe it was for a more realistic reason than most presented in the epics. This is not to say that I dislike the epics, not at all. It's just that they have those elements ready for Hollywood to exploit (to be fair, they can do that with anything) However, I do like some of the adaptations. I enjoyed Troy and I enjoyed Helen of Troy (the mini series). I found them fun to watch and they sparked my initial interest. With all things though, I try not to think of the books when watching film adaptations. Well not much at least. I see them merely as reinterpretations.
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KauSu	Aug 6 2009, 04:19 PM Post #7
Ike's owner Posts: 171 Group: Members Member #16,289 Joined: June 22, 2008 Gender Male	Let's just hope that they don't turn Achilles(sp?) into a hybrid mix of Zhao Yun and Lu Bu. And use him as a cover girl.
	SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM KAUSU: Me thinks that Ike should get ze Modship. Why so? It's pretty simple. I'll modestly point out why: - Friendliness and great charisma. - Excellent communication skills. - Is expert at using BOTH of his functional brain cells. [ End of message ]


The Trojan Horse	Aug 6 2009, 07:33 PM Post #8
First Lieutenant Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #22,990 Joined: July 31, 2009 Gender Male	I watch the Movie Troy. While the battles and basic story was fine. The story between Helen and Paris, was nothing like the book. What was the worse part was the ending. Many characters were killed that were not, and Paris and Helen escape! The two VILLIANS of the epic story become the two survivors. It gave the wrong message to the viewer. It gave the impression that love (lust), is the excuse for anything. In the Illiad, Paris is shown to be a coward. But the movie made him into a hero. That was the part that just burned me up. Edited by The Trojan Horse, Aug 6 2009, 07:35 PM.



Kittn	Aug 6 2009, 08:52 PM Post #9
Zhou Yu's Lap Cat Posts: 369 Group: Members Member #9,843 Joined: September 21, 2007 Gender Female	I watched Troy. But I don't remember a thing about it. I think I probably hated it therefore, and blocked it out of my memory cells. I think I remember thinking that it seemed like an attempt to ride LOTR's coat tails into success. But maybe I'm thinking of one of the other handful of movies that I thought the same thing about. I think in some cases, people will enjoy the movie adaptions better if they've never read the books or know anything about the history (in DW/RoTK case). As they say, Ignorance is bliss. I'll bet Koei is banking on the idea that most people get their Roman & Greek knowledge solely from what Hollywood has churned out, without bothering to read the classic literature. Edit: And thanks about the av TTH. I should probably make a new one though, I've had this one for a while Edited by Kittn, Aug 6 2009, 08:53 PM.
	Mah Devious Arts \| Xbox live Gamertag: TRUKITTN \| Challenge Me!


Red Knight	Aug 12 2009, 09:56 PM Post #10
1948-2009: THE GRAND SLAM DREAM LIVES ON! Posts: 6,547 Group: Members Member #1,747 Joined: April 28, 2006	Well, having read both the Iliad and the Odyssey, I was shocked at how bad the movie adaptation was. The battles were the only good thing about the movie and the people who made the movie managed to get the story wrong(Achilles dying in Troy, Ajax dying so early, Menelaus dying!, Agamemnon dying when he gets murdered on his return to Mycenae, Paris surviving etc) In the Iliad, Paris is hiding in Troy while Hector does all the fighting, but in the movie, he's a big hero(abduction and homewrecking, seriously c'mon people). Also, I think that Aeneas would be one of the main heroes on the Trojan side
	I am the game, I don't need luck Look at it, wish you had it, and eat your hearts out. DGENERATION-X! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvEAqoF94dc 6 Nations 2009- Ireland are GRAND SLAM CHAMPIONS! WOOOOOOOO! 1948-2009: THE DREAM...LIVES...OOOOONNN!


Amari Ade Lord of Ohray	Aug 12 2009, 10:44 PM Post #11
Elite Soldier Posts: 58 Group: Members Member #22,913 Joined: July 25, 2009 Gender Male	a while ago i read a basic version of the Trojan War. i later watched the movie. i never complained about a movie so much in life (except Alexander barf) "that's not how it happened" "Paris is supposed to be wimpy and pathetic, oh because he's Orlando Bloom, oh u can't make Orlando Bloom act like a fkin, loin wettin, psy." "Bloom has to be a hero stealing others women. that always works out" and don't get me started on Brad Pitt. " oh it's Brad Pitt u can't kill Brad Pitt before the end thats wrong... i don't care what the Illiad said i'm the director and Brad Pitt can't die before he saves his girlfriend" oh right "and the big bad Greek guy has to die too, what kind of story ends with a big bad man like Menalaus winning what kind of story is that" Ahem that story happens to be an epic text from ancient Greece a tale that has lived on for thousands of years, as for the directors version of the trojan war it will probably be banished from peoples minds within the decade. what i'm saying if your going to make a movie about something like this, use more than just the names, and the places, and then put your own little spin on it, no u make it with the same story, same character flaws, and same events. no half ass hollywood mockerys



Red Knight	Aug 13 2009, 07:49 PM Post #12
1948-2009: THE GRAND SLAM DREAM LIVES ON! Posts: 6,547 Group: Members Member #1,747 Joined: April 28, 2006	In the Iliad, Menelaus was remarkably easy to sympathise with and wasn't a fat, angry Ginger dude(he did have "Auburn Haired") as an epithet. Also, Menelaus was one of the survivors of the Trojan War and one of the few Greek heroes to actually return home(Apart from say Odysseus and Nestor and various others).I hope that Koei-Tecmo makes Legends of Troy stay as true to the Iliad as possible and half-assing through the story and characters won't fly for me at all.
	I am the game, I don't need luck Look at it, wish you had it, and eat your hearts out. DGENERATION-X! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvEAqoF94dc 6 Nations 2009- Ireland are GRAND SLAM CHAMPIONS! WOOOOOOOO! 1948-2009: THE DREAM...LIVES...OOOOONNN!


DarkDante	Aug 14 2009, 04:45 AM Post #13
Madridista Posts: 944 Group: Members Member #10,840 Joined: November 6, 2007 Gender Male	Was I the only one who thought the movie was decent? Sure it deviated a lot from the Illiad but it had me entertained for 2 hours... Did you guys really expect it would be 99% accurate to the Illiad? Though I do agree Bloom as Paris was going a bit over the top. But Pitt and Bana put in respectable performances and I thought O'Toole as Priam was a masterstroke.
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The Trojan Horse	Aug 14 2009, 06:57 AM Post #14
First Lieutenant Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #22,990 Joined: July 31, 2009 Gender Male	DarkDante Aug 14 2009, 04:45 AM Was I the only one who thought the movie was decent? Sure it deviated a lot from the Illiad but it had me entertained for 2 hours... Did you guys really expect it would be 99% accurate to the Illiad? Though I do agree Bloom as Paris was going a bit over the top. But Pitt and Bana put in respectable performances and I thought O'Toole as Priam was a masterstroke. If you had no knowlege of the Illiad, and you watched the movie Troy. You could be entertained. It was a best a B rate movie with A rate action. But, this is not a discussion of whether the movie is good or bad. It is a discussion of how Hollywood destroys great works such as the Illiad. I ask you, WHY can't Hollywood put out a movie on the Illiad that is accurate to the story of Homer???



foomin	Aug 14 2009, 07:22 AM Post #15
"i smell poop..." Posts: 2,736 Group: Members Member #4,229 Joined: November 17, 2006	The Trojan Horse Aug 5 2009, 04:12 PM Hollywood says, and so does Koei that Love started the Trojan war. But, not so if you read the Illiad. What did start the war was, Lust, Murder, Theft, Pride, Greed and Revenge. First Love. When the Illiad talks of Paris love for Helen, or Helen's attaction for Paris it uses the word aros which means lust or phyical attraction. Paris sails to see Helen and finds her husband gone, Helen hears that Paris is good looking and is attracted to his youth. Never mind the fact that Paris is already married, as is she. i was interested in your topic and did some hunting about and in the process looked up "aros"-this is what i found: http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/aros a napkin-ring started the Trojan War...
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The Trojan Horse	Aug 14 2009, 03:06 PM Post #16
First Lieutenant Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #22,990 Joined: July 31, 2009 Gender Male	Thanks foomin, your playful take on the word, in Spanish, made me look again at my post. Seems it is both "greek" to us! I mis-spelled the word, to should have been eros, with a hypen over the o. Which is phyical attaction, lust. Which is not to be confused with Eros, the son of Aphrodite.



foomin	Aug 15 2009, 07:28 AM Post #17
"i smell poop..." Posts: 2,736 Group: Members Member #4,229 Joined: November 17, 2006	The Trojan Horse Aug 14 2009, 03:06 PM Thanks foomin, your playful take on the word, in Spanish, made me look again at my post. Seems it is both "greek" to us! I mis-spelled the word, to should have been eros, with a hypen over the o. Which is phyical attaction, lust. Which is not to be confused with Eros, the son of Aphrodite. i did not even realize that the word was mis-spelled! i just thought it was humorous that the first definition that shows up on Google is a.) Spanish, and b.) a napkin ring.
	best regards to the lovely Miho for making this banner, it's good to have friends in high places.


zhaoyun619	Nov 4 2009, 08:54 PM Post #18
lux mentis Posts: 323 Group: Members Member #12,780 Joined: January 20, 2008	actually, in ancent greek eros means love. Lust in greek is connected to the porn- radix, while eros meant love, giving the name to the love demon (he wasn't a god in most of the miths) Anyway the movie was a scandal, i mean achilles is a young brat only willing to fight to proove himself (not a bad guy, the good aspects are well depicted in the book) patroclous is an old guy who raised him as his father (common use in their civilization to have noble sons raised by others, in that case a slave of noble origins) and he had an army, not a bunch of companions.. paris is a damned coward, shame of trojans, aenea is the countryard prince, leadin in troops from the outer territories, ajax suicided cuz he couldn't have achilles weapons after his death.. i could go on forever man=) anyways i do not care about the actual storytellig in the game unless they do very very strange things..



The Trojan Horse	Nov 5 2009, 06:53 AM Post #19
First Lieutenant Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #22,990 Joined: July 31, 2009 Gender Male	True, it means love, but a certain type of love. A physical love. Agope is also Greek for love, but it has the meaning of self sacrificing kind of love. While (I can't remember right now), there is a third word in the Greek, for love, which means tender affection. I couldn't agree with you more about how badly mangled that movie was. Other than some excellent big battle scenes it was a complete waste of good film.



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