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Would there be at least a mention of the Korean campaign?
Topic Started: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:16 am (1,961 Views)
ChibiGingi
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ShadowOfBushido
Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:52 am
icewizard612
Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:41 am
Heh, with the Wii's ability to stream data from the SD card, DLC may be a possibility.
I don't see it in SW3
Yeah, it would mean Koei would have to do addition work, and we can't have that.

If anything, the closest thing to a 'mention' of the Korean campaigns will probably be summed up in a sentence during the transition scenes, in which they won't specify which nation they failed to conquer. If it even gets mentioned at all.
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SRS
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Don't you goddamn roll your eyes at me and play this like a joke. Japan(MY country, dammit) were bastards during the Korean campaign, and to include it and give a chance of showing Japan winning or being in a good light of any sort, is entirely against my morals. Nevermind it loses focus on what the game already has portrayed in the current character stories and such.

A mention is all I'll accept and all that should be included. It's what they did for Nobunaga's Ambition and is plenty enough.
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ChibiGingi
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Seraphil
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:10 am
Don't you goddamn roll your eyes at me and play this like a joke. Japan(MY country, dammit) were bastards during the Korean campaign, and to include it and give a chance of showing Japan winning or being in a good light of any sort, is entirely against my morals. Nevermind it loses focus on what the game already has portrayed in the current character stories and such.

A mention is all I'll accept and all that should be included. It's what they did for Nobunaga's Ambition and is plenty enough.
My apologies. You know, MY country, America, is pretty much hated throughout the world for some inhumane and arrogant things that we did, but that doesn't mean it should be a taboo subject. All countries, at one point in time, have done terrible things, and the sooner we come to accept this the better things will be. Sorry, I didn't realize you took the topic so seriously.

Either way, I can at least agree with you that the most it'll get (if even considered) should be a mention. If if makes it into the story at all; it might have been a small factor in Sekigahara, but it's certainly not something that needs its own level.
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DarkDante
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ChibiGingi,

Seraphil pretty much summed up up why it shouldn't be in the game, it was an act of pure aggression: there is no grand plan of justice/love or whatever Hideyoshi just wanted Korea as a stepping stone so he could take all of Asia (I believe Nobunaga was the one who first planned to invade China). He also had a lot of restless daimyo around who had just been slaughtering each other for the last 50 years, so he needed some place to direct their violence.

I'm half Korean although I don' have much emotional attachment to the subject, I can see how others might, this was basically the Vietnam of Sengoku era: Korea might of repelled Japan but they paid a massive price, the country was in ruins.
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ChibiGingi
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DarkDante
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:31 am
ChibiGingi,

Seraphil pretty much summed up up why it shouldn't be in the game, it was an act of pure aggression: there is no grand plan of justice/love or whatever Hideyoshi just wanted Korea as a stepping stone so he could take all of Asia (I believe Nobunaga was the one who first planned to invade China). He also had a lot of restless daimyo around who had just been slaughtering each other for the last 50 years, so he needed some place to direct their violence.

I'm half Korean although I don' have much emotional attachment to the subject, I can see how others might, this was basically the Vietnam of Sengoku era: Korea might of repelled Japan but they paid a massive price, the country was in ruins.
Well, last I checked it's okay for people to have opposing opinions, but I digress. If that's a touchy subject to even bring it up, then I'll step out of this conversation. To be honest, if it gets mentioned or not doesn't really effect me. Hell, it won't even effect the game. It certainly didn't in the last two games, last I checked.

So, I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings with my insensitivity. I can talk about America's heinous acts and failures, but that doesn't mean everyone else can do the same for their countries. So, I apologize and step out.

This isn't worth getting worked up over anyway. Seraphil, my apologies.
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DarkDante
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ChibiGingi
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:36 am
DarkDante
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:31 am
ChibiGingi,

Seraphil pretty much summed up up why it shouldn't be in the game, it was an act of pure aggression: there is no grand plan of justice/love or whatever Hideyoshi just wanted Korea as a stepping stone so he could take all of Asia (I believe Nobunaga was the one who first planned to invade China). He also had a lot of restless daimyo around who had just been slaughtering each other for the last 50 years, so he needed some place to direct their violence.

I'm half Korean although I don' have much emotional attachment to the subject, I can see how others might, this was basically the Vietnam of Sengoku era: Korea might of repelled Japan but they paid a massive price, the country was in ruins.
Well, last I checked it's okay for people to have opposing opinions, but I digress. If that's a touchy subject to even bring it up, then I'll step out of this conversation. To be honest, if it gets mentioned or not doesn't really effect me. Hell, it won't even effect the game. It certainly didn't in the last two games, last I checked.

So, I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings with my insensitivity. I can talk about America's heinous acts and failures, but that doesn't mean everyone else can do the same for their countries. So, I apologize and step out.

This isn't worth getting worked up over anyway. Seraphil, my apologies.
I don't think anyone would have a problem with mentioning it, after all it did happen and it was a pivotal point in the time period. But I think giving it the Koei treatment: Having SW Hideyoshi, Nene, Mitsunari, Kiyomasa etc. fighting the "evil Koreans" killing hundreds of soldiers while cracking jokes and talking amongst themselves, might just be a tad disrespectful. :P
Edited by DarkDante, Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:45 am.
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ChibiGingi
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DarkDante
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:44 am
ChibiGingi
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:36 am
DarkDante
Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:31 am
ChibiGingi,

Seraphil pretty much summed up up why it shouldn't be in the game, it was an act of pure aggression: there is no grand plan of justice/love or whatever Hideyoshi just wanted Korea as a stepping stone so he could take all of Asia (I believe Nobunaga was the one who first planned to invade China). He also had a lot of restless daimyo around who had just been slaughtering each other for the last 50 years, so he needed some place to direct their violence.

I'm half Korean although I don' have much emotional attachment to the subject, I can see how others might, this was basically the Vietnam of Sengoku era: Korea might of repelled Japan but they paid a massive price, the country was in ruins.
Well, last I checked it's okay for people to have opposing opinions, but I digress. If that's a touchy subject to even bring it up, then I'll step out of this conversation. To be honest, if it gets mentioned or not doesn't really effect me. Hell, it won't even effect the game. It certainly didn't in the last two games, last I checked.

So, I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings with my insensitivity. I can talk about America's heinous acts and failures, but that doesn't mean everyone else can do the same for their countries. So, I apologize and step out.

This isn't worth getting worked up over anyway. Seraphil, my apologies.
I don't think anyone would have a problem with mentioning it, after all it did happen and it was a pivotal point in the time period. But I think giving it the Koei treatment: Having SW Hideyoshi, Nene, Mitsunari, Kiyomasa etc. fighting the "evil Koreans" killing hundreds of soldiers while cracking jokes and talking amongst themselves, might just be a tad disrespectful. :P
(I know I said I'm bowing out, but I can't help but stick my foot in my mouth again)

Yeah, I can definitely see how that could be disrespectful, and if it was any other company besides Koei, they could use that to its advantage and turn it around. Maybe have a character or two feeling guilty about it, but, I digress. It's not something that really should be in a video game. I understand how that would be crossing the line.
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SRS
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Eh... sorry for exploding like that.
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Moogle
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but first...
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I would love to see Korea simply because I love anything Korean xD
I could imagine them all being beautiful because most Koreans are STUNNING :wub:

However I don't see how it could be put into SW very well...
maybe they could have the wondergirls attacking Hideyoshi :P
Edited by Moogle, Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:10 am.
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Kiheiji
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Mooglez
Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:08 am
I would love to see Korea simply because I love anything Korean xD
I could imagine them all being beautiful because most Koreans are STUNNING :wub:

However I don't see how it could be put into SW very well...
maybe they could have the wondergirls attacking Hideyoshi :P
What are you talking about?

By the way, I just did some searching and I found out that the Ainu people were in peace with Japan thanks to Suehiro Kakizaki. Hokkaido will not be
SW's Nanman and I don't think any battle will be. Maybe they could add a fictional battle between Suehiro and the rebelling Ainu (maybe a little appereance from a Tohoku clan.

Anyway, on with Korea.

The Korean Campaign should not be added. I said it before and I'll say it again, SW is a game about the Azuchi-Momoyama period, how it begins and ends. The war took seven years and this is about taking control of a nation, not just a province. Plus, adding Korea will be ruining Hideyoshi's personality.
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Ishikawa Goemon
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Why would anyone want Korea as a stage in the first place? The musou games overall storyline has always been about basically trying to unite the land. What does invading another country have to do with that.
If anything, it would only get a mention, like in Onimusha DOD.
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Moogle
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but first...
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ShakeDown
Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Mooglez
Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:08 am
I would love to see Korea simply because I love anything Korean xD
I could imagine them all being beautiful because most Koreans are STUNNING :wub:

However I don't see how it could be put into SW very well...
maybe they could have the wondergirls attacking Hideyoshi :P
What are you talking about?

By the way, I just did some searching and I found out that the Ainu people were in peace with Japan thanks to Suehiro Kakizaki. Hokkaido will not be
SW's Nanman and I don't think any battle will be. Maybe they could add a fictional battle between Suehiro and the rebelling Ainu (maybe a little appereance from a Tohoku clan.

Anyway, on with Korea.

The Korean Campaign should not be added. I said it before and I'll say it again, SW is a game about the Azuchi-Momoyama period, how it begins and ends. The war took seven years and this is about taking control of a nation, not just a province. Plus, adding Korea will be ruining Hideyoshi's personality.
i was having a joke since Wondergirls are a really popular Korean group and Koreans are well known for being good looking...

But since I have to be sensible: :hmmm:
I don't think it would be good because SW is only about Japan. Nanman in DW is still part of china.
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JasBell
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I bring News! It was just rumored by Koei that they might add the Korean Campaign into SW3 as a offical level. :) Koei gave hints that they is going to add it in the game. It will pretty much be in Kiyomasa's, Hideyoshi's, and Yoshihiro's story modes I assume. ;)


EDIT: I am trying to upload the link right now as we speak.
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Mr_Mathias
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Are you kidding me? Calice (swearing in french canadian) I don't want this level to be in!
I mean think about it: Hideyoshi Kiyomasa Mitsunari Nene etc etc etc against a bunch of generic officer led by a generic officier... sucks....HARD!

Plus for all the other reason said earlier



off-topic: Oh and Btw can somebody explain my why usa-ers call themselves Americans adn calling theyr're country america ( Just like if africa was a country lol) I mean Bresilians are Americans Mexican are Americans Venezuelians are american ... Kind off pisses me off like they we're the only country! Pshhh sorry about that, now i'm relieved. sorry again If i offended anybody about this
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Kiheiji
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Oh, please don't add Korean Campaign, please!
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Chou Hi
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ChibiGingi
Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:41 pm
Also, since when does losing = no right for level. Sekigahara, Yi Ling for Shu, Chi Bi for Wei, Tedi-whateveritsfaceis for the Oda? Sorry, not a strong argument against that. Just because Japan lost doesn't mean is can't be a level.
Actually, that is really a very good reason not to put it into the game.

In Sekigahara, Yi Ling, Chi Bi, Tedorigawa, etc., one of the Playable sides does win. And when playing as the other side, it usually starts the "What If"iness of the scenario.

Even with the Nanman, when playing as them in DW4 and DW5, the Nanman choose to go trounce those darn northerners after repelling the attack.

But if we put that into the Korean Campaign we have 4 options:

1) The Japanese army defeats wins a major battle (there were battles the Japanese did win, after all) and then the narrator gives a "and so the Japanese lost, and returned home" which is really confusing and pointless. If they are going to lose but show how it emotionally affects them, it's better to do in a cutscene or something like that.

2) Create a Korean General who decides to lead a counter attack and conquer Japan. (Possible, in theory, but not going to happen)

3) End it the character's story there (but there are much better places to end it).

4) Pretend that Japan won on the mainland (and completely toss history to the wind) which could lead to discomfort among the main Koei fanbases.

Really, none of the 4 choices seem to be worth the cost to create new generics.

And speaking of Generics, if they do Korea now, especially since we're not really expecting any more new characters aside from maybe Motonari, attacking Korea would be a 100% generic battle, which would feel like potentially epic filler, but filler none-the-less.

Honestly, I don't foresee it ever being a stage, when the focus can stay in Japan, but who knows what the future brings. I suppose introducing some Korean characters could make Warriors Orochi that much more diverse in its Asian cast members...

EDIT:
And yes, I'm realize I'm quoting an old post, and the debate has already cooled, but I think that this counter argument applies just as much to why I don't think JasBell's comment doesn't hold water.
No malice or snarkiness directed at Chibigingi for her statement; it just made a good diving board to jump off of ^_^
Edited by Chou Hi, Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:03 pm.
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Kiheiji
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Look, SW3 characters that went to Korea are Hideyoshi, Kiyomasa, Kanbei, Yoshihiro, Muneshige, and Masanori. Judging from it, KOEI might put it.

The Seven-Year War is one stage I will not please to see. Maybe a cinematic movie of Kiyomasa and the others talking while in Korea might work, but adding the actual battle might not be good. Japan and Korea's relationship has never been so good, so adding the reinactment will piss alot of people.

A mention would be more than enough. It is better than Kiyomasa left the Toyotomi hust because Mitsunari is a douche bag.
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Chou Hi
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Cerebral Assassin
Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:16 pm
Look, SW3 characters that went to Korea are Hideyoshi, Kiyomasa, Kanbei, Yoshihiro, Muneshige, and Masanori. Judging from it, KOEI might put it.
You are right; a number of SW3 characters were in Korea. But they all fought on the same team. Who did they fight against? 2 or 3 new Generic Officer Types, 5-8 new Generic Soldier Types, and 0 SW3 Characters. Even if they make Unique NPCs for Korea, they still are all NPCs.

So while there can be some very exciting banter among these characters (and I think you may have missed Mitsunari), it's still banter that can be summed up much faster and easier with less risk in a cutscene.
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Kaon
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It's still a bad idea just to add a stage with generics in Korea. The game itself is focused on the Sengoku Period and its feudal war against the many Japanese daimyo clans, and Hideyoshi's dream of "world conquest" is not part of it.
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JasBell
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Well, they can't add playable characters to the Korean side, it's a Japanese game about the Sengoku era. Let's not be greedy and expect everything. :wacko: Besides it is rumored it's not offical yet from Koei. Holding Water? Hmph. <_<

No Offense to anyone. ^_^
Edited by JasBell, Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:33 am.
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Ishikawa Goemon
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Hideyoshi and his army getting owned by generics, hilarious.

I wonder how could they possibly put a positive spin on such a campaign to make Hideyoshi still look like a good guy. Perhaps put the blame on Kanbei since he looks so evil.
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Chou Hi
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JasBell
Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:30 am
Well, they can't add playable characters to the Korean side, it's a Japanese game about the Sengoku era. Let's not be greedy and expect everything. :wacko: Besides it is rumored it's not offical yet from Koei. Holding Water? Hmph. <_<

No Offense to anyone. ^_^
No offense taken. I'm just trying to say that due to the points I made, the odds of the rumor of a Korean Campaign being true is very unlikely. For some reason I feel like I'm being misunderstood and people think I'm trying to support the idea of a Korean Campaign.
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JasBell
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Death is only a natural cause of the Battlefield.
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Chou Hi
Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:11 am
JasBell
Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:30 am
Well, they can't add playable characters to the Korean side, it's a Japanese game about the Sengoku era. Let's not be greedy and expect everything. :wacko: Besides it is rumored it's not offical yet from Koei. Holding Water? Hmph. <_<

No Offense to anyone. ^_^
No offense taken. I'm just trying to say that due to the points I made, the odds of the rumor of a Korean Campaign being true is very unlikely. For some reason I feel like I'm being misunderstood and people think I'm trying to support the idea of a Korean Campaign.
It was just a rumor that Famitsu said. I don't know if it's true or not. Adding the Korean Campaign wouldn't be bad as I''ll think it will be a good battle. But I see what you are saying, Buddy. ^_^
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TheBritishTeapot
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So where's this "link" you speak of?
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JasBell
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Death is only a natural cause of the Battlefield.
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Hmph, it is on Famitsu, the link is not letting me work for some reason. <_< I''ll get it up eventually.
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