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| Critics Suck!!!; Dont you agree!!! | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 29 2009, 07:25 PM (617 Views) | |
| PhoenixOfWEI | Aug 29 2009, 07:25 PM Post #1 |
So you wish to test the edge of my blade?
  ![]](http://209.85.122.85/static/1/pip_r.png)
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Critic ratings from IGN and Gamespot for the warriors series has always been harsh, whether the warriors series has been good or bad, and they are currently getting awful ratings. The warriors series has been great and have had great ideas. But even though there are many mistakes, the Warriors series is still great and the lot of lame reasons for lowly rated. "Button bash" "Repetitive" Even though they are, isn't other games like Devil May Cry a button bash. Or isn't all games repetitive. They dont even test or rate the games propoerly either. Type in one of your favourite games into IGN or Gamespot and see for yourself. One thing I would love to have on the games is an online multiplayer. This may boost up ratings. |
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| The Trojan Horse | Aug 29 2009, 08:28 PM Post #2 |
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First Lieutenant
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You need to take a step back and a deep breath. Your right, the NA reviewer in general will always give poor rating to a KOEI game. If you look DW3 had the best ratings, then from then on, they continued to bash them. NA reviewers tend to think in only newest, best, graphics and cuting edge gameplay. They have become quite jaded. Each game in the DW series, has changes and improvements, but almost always in small steps. Which I for one enjoy. Also Koei is a small company compared to EA, and other such companies. So, if the NA reviewer bashed say, Madden 10 (which hasn't really change much since they started making the game), they could be in trouble, since EA spends huge dollars with them. Yep, it is quite the hypocritsy!! |
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| Shogun | Aug 30 2009, 03:45 PM Post #3 |
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Generic Title
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I disagree. Game critics are looking for things that would appeal to all audiences, and lets face it, some of the recent KOEI games are basically using mindless action as their main formula. I really hate complaining but this company has been milking their most beloved franchise to the point it has gotten ridiculous. I do agree with the "small step" improvement though, but DW3 will always be one of my favorite games and most games that came after it are mediocre at best.
I don't understand why people compare a sports game to a beat 'em up. I don't see any logic in the comparison as they're entirely different. You can't expect a sports game to get rid of its "repetitive" nature because it doesn't exist in the sports game world. It's like watching football games and saying they're all the same, which is exactly how it should be. KOEI is hanging on to an obsolete and very rare genre, they can either do it right or let go of it altogether. Until then, the 'warriors' franchise is a tired cash cow that's being repeatedly milked carelessly. |
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| MSW-07 Omega Gundam | Aug 30 2009, 05:18 PM Post #4 |
Primordial Godtype
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Like most fans, I know that DW has issues and problems that are fixable or seem to return time and again. But, I don't appreciate critics that slap "button-masher" or "overly repetitive" on DW while ignoring the fact that every game is repetitive eventually. Theres no getting away from it. To make matters worse, there are critics that simply bash the game and never seem to know what they're talking about. Often using references to other games in order to make they're point when to rational people they are really just digging their grave in terms of actual credibility. |
"I can't play God, no matter how hard I try I'll never be able to bring people back. And killing Dark wouldn't erase the sadness. All we can do is forgive..." -Nterek Suil Gundam RP [Practice] Hokuto no Ken RP Sign-ups: http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/topic/6654787/1/#new | |
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| JasBell | Aug 30 2009, 06:13 PM Post #5 |
a lost legend killer
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Well nobody really listen to game critics when it come to Warriors games because they are so biased. If the critics really have a problem with Warriors games, then F*** them. It is not their place to judge a game harshly because only you hate it.  The multiplayer online is a good idea but as I already said on another part on this forum, Koei is already doing that on the console version of Dynasty Warriors:StrikeForce. But I would like to see online on a Future Warriors game. 
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You might also know me as Selsuno (PSN and XBL) Spoiler: click to toggle You can call me Jas though. | |
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| Myllari | Aug 30 2009, 06:27 PM Post #6 |
Officer
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I think what they were getting at was that sports games don't change much throughout the years just like Koei's Warriors series hasn't changed much since its inception. Sure Koei makes improvements to every game so does EA with their sports games (allegedly IMHO). I'm a big hockey fan and in the past I bought the new hockey games from EA every single year, this all stopped for me when NHL 2005 came out. That game was a disaster, whats worse is that EA has continued on with that games formula ever since. This is rather than go with what HAD been working for them which ultimately culminated with their NHL 2004 game, that many consider to be one of the all around best hockey video games of all time. So anyway, I think there is plenty of bias to go around in the world of video games and I can honestly see why some may genuinely NOT LIKE what Koei has or has not done with the Warriors series games. I've loved every game they've put out aside from DW4 + XL and all the Empires games. Some may consider them repetitive button mashing games that get boring, but they've been entertaining me since DW2 came out and I still play that game every so often because it is a True Classic and certainly one of the best original PS2 games. |
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| Shogun | Aug 30 2009, 06:43 PM Post #7 |
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Generic Title
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See, that's the thing, they're not expected to change as much as non-sports games. I don't exactly get how people can call sports games repetitive, they're sports games and, unlike other genres, have to stick to the fundamental laws of the sport. These games follow an essential routine to stay true to the sport, and comparing the two shows that the person doing it is just looking for a reason to defend the games he loves. The critics aren't biased, because it's understandable that they're tired of reviewing the same game over and over again. I think the biasness comes from those who aren't able to accept that critics demand fun and innovative games that can appeal to all audiences and not just a few people who appreciate mindless action. We just have to remember sometimes that critics aren't fanboys, and they don't give in to the mistake of committing themselves to a certain company. |
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The cake is a lie. | |
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| strategist_jeffo | Aug 30 2009, 07:02 PM Post #8 |
All is according to heaven's decree
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They actually rate very well. If you just come to think of it, the critics know what games in this age are up to, and Koei's Warriors series are just far under that norm. It should be considered good that they get a barely good rate, compared to the likes of God of War. Don't blame me for being a bad fan, but people should be realistic, and not going beserk against critics who are in more ways right about what they are saying. |
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| LoW | Aug 30 2009, 09:51 PM Post #9 |
This guy definitely isn't a rock anymore....
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You could say it's a war between two cultures cultures: Japanese players and Western players have different quality standards for hack 'n slash games. Let's compare a few Dynasty Warriors and God of War features for example: DW: - Hundreds of enemies to kill - Lazy AI, takes a while before regular enemies start fightning - Button smashing, no complicated combo attacks - What's new in sequels: New characters, game modes, items, weapons, stages etc. are added: Quantity GoW: - Less enemies but there's more variety in them - Good and aggressive AI, challenges the player - Button smashing is not recommended, attacks can be linked together to create devastating combos - What's new in sequels: Game's length, gameplay, replay value, enemy AI etc. are improved = Quality That's how I see the current situation. For Japanese, it has to be easy and simple. For American and Europeans, a good challenge is always a big plus. If Gamespot and IGN reviewers won't find the GoW features I just listed from Warriors games, low ratings are almost always guaranteed. |
 This sig still rules, thanks to Mr. Honda >_>. LoW's DWSF Material Locations Guide available now. Check it out! | |
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| The Trojan Horse | Aug 31 2009, 12:06 AM Post #10 |
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First Lieutenant
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Other than GOW and DW both being games that have characters with ancient weapons, the two games are completely different. GOW is hack and slash, but your are led by the nose. There is only one way to win the game, and you the player must figure out the method. Also it is all about small numbers of enemies, and very graphic violence. It is a great mix for what it is. DW and it's Empire Series. Is more about the story. The player can tackle the scenario in any way he or she wants. Sure there are certain methods to insure the best outcome, but they are not needed to complete the level. KOEI rewards players with unlocks and unique scenarios. So repetition is rewarded. There is nothing wrong with repetition. All things in live use repetition to become more skilled in live. While I will agree, that the AI could be more aggresive, I have seen small improvements over the series. NA reviewer are extremely bias, and I can prove it by looking at thier track record. The average NA review had DW3 rated the highest. It was a huge improvement over 2 with lots of characters and battles compared to the earlier game. On average the review was about 7.5 to 8 on a scale from one to ten. After that review each version of the game no matter if it was XL or Empires, was given a lesser rating for one reason only. IT was effectively the same game, said the reviewer. I ask you this WHY lower the rating if it was the same game? It should have be rated the same, if it had not been any worse than the last, right? Yet, again and again a game Like Madden continues to get high ratings, when in effect it is the same game. I call that a DOUBLE SET OF STANDARDS. |
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| strategist_jeffo | Aug 31 2009, 12:15 AM Post #11 |
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All is according to heaven's decree
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Not that it matters much to this topic, but I've always seen DW4 over DW3 at ratings. But I don't think those reviewers are so biased about it. In the time of DW3/DW4, this game was pretty good to play. Lots of people on screen, ok graphics back in that time, so it was good to see. If you compare DW to what other game of the same genre, you can see that DW is by means of graphics and AI don't score so well. Also, the replay value of DW isn't really to be considered so good. Of course us fans can take that, but for a casual gamer to be able to play the same level over and over and over again will get very boring. |
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Avatar and Banner credits to LiuXian My awesome desktop wallpaper created by the great LiuXian! | |
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| The Trojan Horse | Aug 31 2009, 12:35 AM Post #12 |
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First Lieutenant
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Why bring in the casual gamer? Who cares about him? That gamer will never play a DW series style of game anyway. Koei makes these game, because they sell, and sell well enough to keep making more. It is the fans of the games, that keep buying them they should be concerned about, not the casual gamer, with the intention span of a knat. |
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| Shogun | Aug 31 2009, 12:58 AM Post #13 |
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Generic Title
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Why lower the rating if the game fails to change? Because making the same game all over again with very few changes is hardly a positive merit, in fact, it's easily a con and a slap to the face. You're using the Madden comparison nonsense again, which I thoroughly explained in my previous post that it cannot be compared with KOEI's hack n' slash games. You see, if a game delivers nothing more than it's predecessor, that makes it less authentic and (less) original compared to the previous game. Thereby forcing critics to mark it as a boring copy, which I don't blame them for.
And this is where, IMHO, your comment immediately loses credibility.
Not true, I think you're misunderstanding casual gaming.
There, right there. That's exactly the flaw I was talking about. This shows their narrow-mindedness, because they aren't aiming high enough, and aren't keeping up with the rest of the gaming industry at all.
If what you posted was similar to their own mindset, than that makes their supposed objective very ignorant. |
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The cake is a lie. | |
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| The Trojan Horse | Aug 31 2009, 01:18 AM Post #14 |
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First Lieutenant
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Well you and I will never agree. My comparison with Madden is sound and valid, even if you refuse to see it. Lowering a game just because it is effectively the same game makes no sense. All the review had to state is the game effectively plays like the last version with some improvements. I would then recieve the same rating. What you call as narrow minded, I call as smart buisness sense. They give the fans of the system more of what they like. If you made a club salad that was all the rave with your diners, why change the recipe? I find thier games a refreshing change, from the statis quo of always trying to keep up with the Jones, as it were. Instead I get a good game, that I'll know I will enjoy just as much with each release. I do not find Koei ignorant, but I do find some NA gamers and most NA reviewers to be arrogant. Change for the sake of Change is very stupid. Until Koei see a steep decline in thier sales among thier base, they will not change, and I see no reason for them to do so. You can't be everything to all gamers. Koei has found a good nitch, and it has been their success to feed it. |
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| Shogun | Aug 31 2009, 01:56 AM Post #15 |
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Generic Title
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It's not that I refuse to see it, it's because I see no sense in it.
It deserves to be lowered due to the lack of authenticity. Sure there are a few improvements, but the repetition ultimately overshadows them. Like you said earlier, they're taking small steps, which leaves them behind compared to the rest of the videogame industry.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bored of eating the salad. It's just that I want them to consider making a better one while I'm eating it, or another for that matter.
This is what KOEI's practically doing. I'm talking about change for the sake of innovation.
So basically, what you're saying is that you don't want KOEI to keep up with the rest of the industry? Because quality is obviously far from their standard. |
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The cake is a lie. | |
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| The Trojan Horse | Aug 31 2009, 05:53 AM Post #16 |
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First Lieutenant
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I want Koei to keep true to thier games. I do not care about the industry. I don't care about the cutting edge. All I want is a decent game, I can enjoy. Koei gives those to me in spades. As for repetition, that has become such a sad old montra. There is nothing wrong with repetition. You and I will NEVER see thing in the same way. That is fine. I just am sick of the same old haters, bashing poor Koei. Yet here we are on a KOEI fan site, so they must be doing something right. Instead of the same old repetition gripes, I'd rather see people talking about constructive ways to IMPROVE, not change the system. NA reviewer will never go with that concept, so I understand Koei outlook, toward gaming outside the asian market, where gameplay trumps, the lastest graphics or innovation. |
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| Shogun | Aug 31 2009, 12:35 PM Post #17 |
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Generic Title
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You're absolutely right. I was just defending the decisions critics make, because unlike us, they aren't fans. |
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The cake is a lie. | |
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| The Unamed Spearman | Aug 31 2009, 06:18 PM Post #18 |
General
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I actually do have a problem with critics who review warriors games usually. Their reviews refuse to acknowledge the things that koei has changed and just say "Oh look its another koei game." I swear they probably don't even play the games half the time and just use the reviews as a break. They don't acknoledge how the AI has greatly improved in DW6 and DW6 Empires. Not to mention they don't even mention it when totally new systems like the character switching in WO appear. I don't care if they give it a bad scores because I know I'll still enjoy the games. I just wish they would give it an actual review explaining game mechanics, difficulty, story, etc. |
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[size=7]I'm the first guy you ever killed in a warriors game....and I'm back for revenge.[/size] Check out my moveset creation topic. | |
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| Shogun | Aug 31 2009, 07:26 PM Post #19 |
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Generic Title
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I don't think you've been reading their reviews. They would be stupid not to mention that, which they're not. |
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The cake is a lie. | |
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| PhoenixOfWEI | Sep 3 2009, 12:39 PM Post #20 |
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So you wish to test the edge of my blade?
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Actually. They dont test or play the games properly. You see. They only play one battle to test out the game. Watch this video. They tried to make it look amazingly pathetic. http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-dynasty-warriors-6-empires/17-915/ Argue against this or be on my side. |
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| LoW | Sep 3 2009, 02:26 PM Post #21 |
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This guy definitely isn't a rock anymore....
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All games become repetive eventually but Warriors, and especially DW series, don't even try to hide it. DW2-5 featured the same battles, stories, characters, gameplay system etc with some changes here and there. DW6 was a step in the right direction but seeing how fans reacted to it, I'm afraid that the next DW might be another DW5. Phoenix, didn't watch the review yet but when you read some of those comments, you get the idea what people generally think about the series and I can't blame them. |
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This sig still rules, thanks to Mr. Honda >_>. LoW's DWSF Material Locations Guide available now. Check it out! | |
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| Xanxus | Sep 3 2009, 03:17 PM Post #22 |
I'll slaughter you. Every damn last one of you
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I thought they had some decent points.... for anyone new to the series DW6 is an utter fail for them, they dont know what they're doing. But honestly, you can't say they're wrong, they explained dynasty warriors as exactly what it is, push x to cut guys, sometimes push y, there is also b. And thats what it is, theres not much else, they explained it for what it is. |
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KW Family My Gallery My Wife- Sxc Me    Much thanks to Jiahe for the Sun Quan Banner! Name changed from Miyazaki PSN: NPZB-Zaki | |
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| Wu Song | Sep 3 2009, 05:51 PM Post #23 |
General of the North
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I remember on this one forum this one dude was posting stuff about Dynasty Warriors and how much he hate it just to fail, here the Quote and my though on what he said and don't ask for the link because the forum no longer working and it now dead and what the dude post is in bold My though on Dynasty Warriors 4 Now what kind of title is that for a review? It a game where you ca only play as this dude named Zhao Yun first thing of the bat he is wrong about Zhao Yun only being playable and Zhao Yun now even unlock at start as well  And there this one dude call Lu Bu he is too hard to fight and I hate him Ok he is right but Lu Bu isn't that hard to fight you jusst need to true musou him alot of time and he will die You need to be level 99 to beat Lu Bu and he is still to hard to beat Right I beat him on easy at level 13 and I don't think the max level is 99 I think it was 50 Cao Cao moveset suck and his wife Zhen Ji moveset suck Hey now wait a min you just said that Zhao Yun was only playable how are they both playable and you got the wrong Cao dude  My favorite Character Is Zhang He but but you said that only Zhao Yun was playable My favorite story was Gun Yu Wait you going to shoot me now or did you mean Guan Yu That is all for my review that wasn't a review that was just you saying random thing about Dynasty warriors 4 anyway that was his review if you ask me he sure never play Dynasty Warriors 4 that good yeah ... EDIT:And also he start talking about Samurai Warriors and started to attack it just to get banned from the same forum and the Critic give out bad review because Dynasty warriors isn't a big name like Tekken or Ninja Gaiden for even Marvel vs Capcom 2 Edited by Wu Song, Sep 3 2009, 06:02 PM.
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| PhoenixOfWEI | Sep 3 2009, 06:22 PM Post #24 |
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So you wish to test the edge of my blade?
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lol nice  This is my personal topic and I will defend my thought on critics. |
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| Wu Song | Sep 3 2009, 07:06 PM Post #25 |
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General of the North
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Yeah I save it to my note pad to show my friend how dumb that guy was and he got himself banned from the forum with the samurai Warrior review of his and also I hope he join this forum and post the review here but he will end up getting banned And like the Dynasty Warriors review I will make fun of his Samurai Warriors review Samurai from the year 2004 What kind of name is that you making people think all the character are from the year 2004 or something like that This game suck more then Dynasty warriors Both game are good and are not bad Once a again Zhao Yun is the only character in the game waering red How is Zhao Yun in the game I know Lu Bu is in the game but how is Zhao in the game do you mean Sanada Yukimura? Lu Bu in the game but with a diff hair and he still hard to beat That man name is Keiji dude not Lu Bu and you are still talking about that I like playing this one chick call mistuhide and Ranmaru Mori You Said that Zhao yun a character that not even in Samurai Warriors was only playable and they are both male not female Noh look like Cao Cao wife and use the same weapon Are you even playing Samurai Warriors? My favorite stage is He Fei but it hard thank to Zhang Liao What the you said Samurai Warriors but you said Zhang Liao but he ... I love Xia Qia Who is Xia Qia or you talking about Xiahou Dun or Xiao Qiao? and there both not in Samurai Warriors Hojo Azure Dragon musou rock it so bad I love the Power gloves it so bad  I hope they never make Samurai Warriors 2 Too bad for you they did made it This is my review on Samurai warriors plase rate it Again you don`t talk about the game play and in this review you never talk about the story and you spell Please as Plase it get 1 star from me Yeah he review the NES ROT3K and I think that what got him banned from that forum Edited by Wu Song, Sep 3 2009, 07:12 PM.
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2:46 AM Nov 26
