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Give yourself RoTK stats and skills!; Rather odd topic....
Topic Started: Mon Sep 7, 2009 4:50 pm (1,776 Views)
scholar
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Let's just say the average joe would be 10 all around. People elevate themselves too highly. The likes of the great Yue Yi could not match DKM gave himself. People think of themselves too highly. 70... is not average. It's extra-ordinary. 80 isn't good, it's singular. 90 isn't great, it's among the best. 100... doesn't exist.
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Emperor Tam
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Principal of Heaven.
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scholar
Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:18 am
Let's just say the average joe would be 10 all around. People elevate themselves too highly. The likes of the great Yue Yi could not match DKM gave himself. People think of themselves too highly. 70... is not average. It's extra-ordinary. 80 isn't good, it's singular. 90 isn't great, it's among the best. 100... doesn't exist.
Quote:
 
I've a Black Belt in Tak Kwon Do and Jeet Kune Do and I'm learning Kendo at the Moment so I believe this war stat is fair

No it's not fair, and since you spelled it Tak Kwon Do rather than Tae Kwon Do, i'd say neither is your INT :)

Judging by the description you get when you select He Jin in the RTK personality test, i'd say 50 is for a person of average ability, while a peasant would be around the twenties and thirties.

That would mean:
60-69: Above Average
70-79: Adept
80-89: Experienced/Highly Skilled
90-99: One of the Best in China
100: THE Best in China

As for me, if i was being realistic

WAR: 46
LEAD: 68
INT: 71
POL: 77
CHA: 21

Skills: Fault, Plead, Incite, Argue, Refute.
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Dalis
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I gotta agree with Emperor Tam here: taking 10 as average is a little extreme. 50 is more like it.

LDR
0-10: Lousy leader
10-50: Shy, uncertain of himself
50-80: Good leader
80-100: Leader of men

WAR:
0-50: not meant for fighting
50-60: knows the basics of martial arts
60-70: Strong
70-80: strong + basics
80-90: quite adept at martial arts
90-100: Warrior

INT:
0-50: stupid
50-70: IQ of 100
70-80: bright
80-90: genius
90-100: Albert Einstein

POL:
0-30: bad at administration
30-50: mediocre skills
50-70: good administration skills
70-90: Minister
90-100: Nerd

CHR:
0-50: UGLY
50-70: Average Joe
70-90: Handsome/Beauty
90-100: Mister/Miss Universe

That's my point of view, and i think it's pretty accurate if i do say so myself.
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LsLights
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Biscuit
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LDR: 91

WAR: 42

INT: 81

POL: 75

CHR: 42

Negotiator: I always bend people or convince people to agree with me or something like that, or i'll bend them out of sheer annoyance.



Edited by LsLights, Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:12 pm.
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KauSu
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:18 am
Let's just say the average joe would be 10 all around. People elevate themselves too highly. The likes of the great Yue Yi could not match DKM gave himself. People think of themselves too highly. 70... is not average. It's extra-ordinary. 80 isn't good, it's singular. 90 isn't great, it's among the best. 100... doesn't exist.
The average Joe is more around the 50s.
And like I said, maybe someone when compared to the great Yue Yi turns out to be a 30 / 40 / 10 / 10 / 20. But when compared to the
"average joe" of today, turns out to be 80/90/70/70/90. Get my point? I, for one, rated myself on my own experience, comparing myself to today's average Joe.
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scholar
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That makes even less sense... The average joe of today is far less adept in any of those areas when compared to the past. We lost skills as time progressed.

Tam, Cen Hun, a man who rotted Wu much in the same way that Huang Hao did. These people were what I would describe as ordinary average citizens corrupted by greed. Their stats... are pitiful.
Edited by scholar, Tue Dec 1, 2009 1:36 am.
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KauSu
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scholar
Tue Dec 1, 2009 1:33 am
That makes even less sense... The average joe of today is far less adept in any of those areas when compared to the past. We lost skills as time progressed.

Tam, Cen Hun, a man who rotted Wu much in the same way that Huang Hao did. These people were what I would describe as ordinary average citizens corrupted by greed. Their stats... are pitiful.
Let me clarify what I meant.
(hypothetically):
The average Chang of 2000 years ago was 50/50/50/50/50
The average Joe of today is around 30/30/50/30/30

Let's say that you, scholar, are rated 70/50/70/70/70 (Chang-wise)
That would get you a 90/70/90/90/90 rating (Joe-wise)

I'm dizzy as hell so I'm not sure if this makes any sense to you, but yeah, that's what I meant.
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Emperor Tam
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scholar
Tue Dec 1, 2009 1:33 am
That makes even less sense... The average joe of today is far less adept in any of those areas when compared to the past. We lost skills as time progressed.


No, the average INT and POL will be higher (due to comparitively recent measures like compolsory education and the simple fact Man has made tons of advances in the last 1800 years. CHA would be about the same, while LEAD and WAR would be lower (as people have gotten more lazy and sedentary, less Blue Collar employment, etc.)
Quote:
 

Tam, Cen Hun, a man who rotted Wu much in the same way that Huang Hao did. These people were what I would describe as ordinary average citizens corrupted by greed. Their stats... are pitiful.

An ''Average citizen'' (a peasant) would be (like i said if you read my post) in the 20's and 30's while a person of average ability would be in the 50's. You can be an ordinary person, and yet have below or above-average ability in a particular area.

Like KauSu, i rated myself based on today's standards, rather than those of 1800 years ago, because standards of what consitutes as average has changed.

For instance, your average learned man in the Sanguo era could recite at least one of the confucian classics end to end, i couldn't recite to save my life, but this doesn't make me an idiot.

Anybody rating themselves above average by Sanguo standards, would at the very, very least have to be fluent in Classical Chinese.

Oh and KauSu, your explanation was understandable.
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Dalis
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Emperor Tam
Tue Dec 1, 2009 9:56 am
scholar
Tue Dec 1, 2009 1:33 am
We lost skills as time progressed.


No, the average INT and POL will be higher (due to comparitively recent measures like compolsory education and the simple fact Man has made tons of advances in the last 1800 years. CHA would be about the same, while LEAD and WAR would be lower (as people have gotten more lazy and sedentary, less Blue Collar employment, etc.)
Not really.

Altho today's society has different principles, stats like 90 WAR or so can still apply to several people. And sometimes stats like those can be given to someone, but they have a different meaning. Take for instance:

Han Dang: has 85 WAR (a veteran who has fought in several battles)
Sun Shang Xiang: has 86 WAR (had martial arts training)

Does this mean that SSX would beat Han Dang in a duel? Probably not. But this is a good example since SSX WAR stat could apply to modern day people who practice martial arts. They probably never fought in a battle like Han Dang, but in today's society those people who practice martial arts are stronger and mostly better in fighting than people who don't practice martial arts.

I gave myself 85 WAR for instance, because i know 5 different martial arts (don't have a black belt tho :/ ). If i faced Han Dang, he'd probably cream me (even tho i'm probably a lot taller than him), but if i got into fight at school for instance, i'd have a high chance of winning.

WAR stats still apply today, but they have a different meaning. Don't compare yourself to the heroes of the Sanguo period, compare yourself to the average Joe with 50 in all skills. Average people have 50 in all skills.

About Cen Hun and Huang Hao, dunno why they have those lousy stats but those aren't realistic. In real life, they'd probably have much higher INT and POL. Even Liu Chan and especially Xiahou Mao. Those stats aren't realistic.

And about losing skills as time progress, that ain't entirely true. Today's society just has different principles. We still have them, we just don't have need for them.



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scholar
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So... we could build a temple without any nails or mortar? Do we write in long poems and discuss classical works as if they were fact? Sadly... no. We lost skills. In general, I'm sure if we scoured all 6.8 billion people we could find someone who can build a temple with no nails, write long poems describing the day, use a mechanical clock without any gears, still uses a sundial. But, those skills on a grand scale have been... cast aside. Values of history, filial piety, honor. They went from ways of life to cast aside, carried on only by a fair few in remoteness. Hell. Faithfulness to one's family has been lost on a massive scale. I didn't mean to suggest that the skills were in fact lost, I'm saying we as a people no longer have them.
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Dalis
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scholar
Tue Dec 1, 2009 8:21 pm
So... we could build a temple without any nails or mortar? Do we write in long poems and discuss classical works as if they were fact? Sadly... no. We lost skills. In general, I'm sure if we scoured all 6.8 billion people we could find someone who can build a temple with no nails, write long poems describing the day, use a mechanical clock without any gears, still uses a sundial. But, those skills on a grand scale have been... cast aside. Values of history, filial piety, honor. They went from ways of life to cast aside, carried on only by a fair few in remoteness. Hell. Faithfulness to one's family has been lost on a massive scale. I didn't mean to suggest that the skills were in fact lost, I'm saying we as a people no longer have them.
Like i said, some skills like temple building are not needed anymore in modern day society, but we still have them. There's still knowledge about them in this world to regain them.

Besides, architecture and clock making have been greatly improved not only thanks to technology, but also because we strive to improve those skills. Now we got solid houses (or churches if you want "temples") and digital watches. Those skills are still present, improved and in a modern form.

And some skills you suggested are still present, like filial piety. In modern politics, isn't there a political party you support, a party for which you vote? Or honor. Many of us still have honor, it comes in different forms and all but you get the idea.

We still have those skills, but they are different than those from 1800 years ago. And those that we no longer need can still be regained.

We might be going a little off-topic here...

So anyway, there's no need to take 10 as average for each stat or to think that we are less capable than the Sanguo heroes. We are strong and skilled in our own right.

That's why i have

LDR: 31
WAR: 85
INT:82
POL:22 (previous post was typo)
CHR:69
Skill: Flying General/Fleetness

And that's why everyone else who ahs posted here has given themselves those stats
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scholar
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I guess we just disagree. We each have reasonable explanations, we just don't agree.

Finally, myself.

scholar:
Lea 72
War 34
Int 78
Pol 55
Cha 33
Skill: Focus/Negotiate One for never running out of ideas and ways to implement them, and the other one for... you'll know in a bit.
Spears C
Pikes C
Bows A
Horse C
Siege B
Naval B
Yes these stats are quite arrogant.. It's how I see myself, though.
Edited by scholar, Tue Dec 1, 2009 9:24 pm.
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Ricky
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I have to agree with everyone else scholar. If people are being honest or not, we can't say. KauSu made it pretty clear. PhoenixNega also brings in some solid responses. It's true most of us aren't as adept in certain factors. Today most things are optional to back then. Still, having that freedom we can apply ourselves to anything. Martial arts, literature, even political things. Charisma should come naturally. Let alone the intelligence of someone. Leadership today, can be contact of any degree or extent in whatever manner. It shouldn't be necessary whether or not if you can lead an army. Otherwise this topic wouldn't make much sense.

Bringing He Jin into context was a good example. He was a simple butcher and most of his stats are over 10. Yet he was just given a title and troops. My point being, according to Koei he's ''average.'' Can't see stats all around 10 or less getting passed for average.

My stats:
LDR: 72
WAR: 78
INT: 40
POL: 28
CHA: 82

Skills on the previous page.

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scholar
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I guess I elevate the likes of the great heroes of the Three Kingdoms too highly.
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KauSu
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The General of Flying Douchebaggery
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Scholar, I can easily beat Lu Bu, Zhang Fei, Ma Chao and Zhang Liao in duels.

Why?

I have a shotgun, they have damned spears.

By your logic of us having skills that we don't, I can say that we have stuff that they didn't, thus earning us higher stats.
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scholar
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"us having skills we don't" Did you mean "them"

The computer, GPS. Those aren't our skills. It in fact makes us less intelligent than before. When learning of the terrain was important, and calculating attacks, and running scenarios to time and effort. We entrust ourselves to machines that we could not win without. We've lost more than we've gained.

Also. Giving ourselves RoTK Stats and Skills means that it's taking place inside that era. It didn't say Give ourselves RoTK Stats in the modern era, now did it?
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KauSu
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The General of Flying Douchebaggery
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Yeah, that was my bad, sorry. And your argument is valid in one sense, but, it could also mine give yourself ROTK stats (As in stats fashioned in the way of the RoTK Game, not restricting you to a time period)
And, machines were made by man, thus we are superior.
Zhuge Liang made the Wheelbarrow I believe, and the Zhuge Nu (Repetitive Crossbow), did that make the men of Shu lazier and dumber? I don't think so.
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scholar
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No... The mother makes the child. But the mother could be retarded while the child may have an extremely high IQ. Things don't work like that. We invented the nuke, but we are not superior to it. We invented the car, that only weakened us. We invented the micro-chip. Now our top chess players can't beat a simple computer.
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KauSu
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Yet, we are superior to our inventions because we have the power to rule over them. That, if anything would give us higher INT!
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Emperor Tam
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PhoenixNega
Tue Dec 1, 2009 7:56 pm




Quote:
 

Altho today's society has different principles, stats like 90 WAR or so can still apply to several people.

You're right, but i was talking about the average person, not several people :)

Quote:
 
but in today's society those people who practice martial arts are stronger and mostly better in fighting than people who don't practice martial arts.

Then those people would be above the average person, and hence be above average rather than average in regards to WAR.

Quote:
 

I gave myself 85 WAR for instance, because i know 5 different martial arts (don't have a black belt tho :/ ).


A Yellow or Blue who doesn't care about his belt, knows more about Martial Arts than a Black Belt who brags about having a Black Belt. :)

Quote:
 
In real life, they'd probably have much higher INT and POL.
Agreed, they should definitely have a better POL stat, maybe a CHA increase as well?

Quote:
 
and especially Xiahou Mao. Those stats aren't realistic.

Agreed! his stats should be much higher, so should Liu Zhang's, Shan can just stay as it is. :)

Quote:
 
And about losing skills as time progress, that ain't entirely true. Today's society just has different principles. We still have them, we just don't have need for them.

Not quite, take Martial Arts for instance:
Martial Arts still exist, but the styles differ to what was prevalent during the Ming, Yuan or Song. For example, a Wudang practitioner of Taichi during the late Song would have a different style to a Taichi practitioner today, even if he also learned from Wudang. This is because skills change over time, some die out completely, some are renered practically useless (eg. Latin), while others are reinvented or evolve into a new skill (like how Alchemy eventually evolved into Chemistry, or how Miasma founded the basis of Germ Theory)

Quote:
 
So... we could build a temple without any nails or mortar? Do we write in long poems and discuss classical works as if they were fact? Sadly... no. We lost skills

And we also invented new skills, the reason skills are lost is because society either deems them useless, or because they can be made useful through adaption.

Quote:
 
In general, I'm sure if we scoured all 6.8 billion people we could find someone who can build a temple with no nails, write long poems describing the day, use a mechanical clock without any gears, still uses a sundial. But, those skills on a grand scale have been... cast aside

BUT, you couldn't find a single person who knew how to properly operate a PC, TV, Radio etc. 1800 years ago, i fail to see your point.

Also, i can use a sundial because i learned it at school :)

Quote:
 
Besides, architecture and clock making have been greatly improved not only thanks to technology, but also because we strive to improve those skills. Now we got solid houses (or churches if you want "temples") and digital watches. Those skills are still present, improved and in a modern form.

This is exactly what i'm trying to say, scholar :)

Quote:
 
And some skills you suggested are still present, like filial piety

Fillial Piety is a value, not a skill, and anyone (Scholar) who thinks a value and a skill are one in the same is an idiot.

Quote:
 
I have a shotgun, they have damned spears.

So that would give you +100 WAR regardless of what your war was :)

Quote:
 

The computer, GPS. Those aren't our skills

So being able to use a PC isn't a skill, but Honour is? I've said it once and i'll say it again, you're a F***ing moron, scholar :)

Quote:
 
Also. Giving ourselves RoTK Stats and Skills means that it's taking place inside that era. It didn't say Give ourselves RoTK Stats in the modern era, now did it?

No it doesn't, it simply means give yourself RTK stats and skills.

Quote:
 
And, machines were made by man, thus we are superior.
Zhuge Liang made the Wheelbarrow I believe, and the Zhuge Nu (Repetitive Crossbow), did that make the men of Shu lazier and dumber? I don't think so.

Exactly Right! But in regards to modern times, using a wheelbarrow requires a lot more physical effort than pushing a button or driving a truck, this is the reason why i believe the average WAR rate would be lower, while the average INT rate would be higher (ie. you need to be able to drive in order to drive a truck, and driving IS a skill)

Quote:
 
No... The mother makes the child. But the mother could be retarded while the child may have an extremely high IQ.

This is pointless rhetoric that has no relevance to the topic at hand, much like modern politics. Feel free to add + 5 to your POL and - 5 to your INT :)
Quote:
 
We invented the micro-chip. Now our top chess players can't beat a simple computer.

Do computers program themselves? Nope :)
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KauSu
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Don't put all of the blame on scholar, perhaps he lives among people who lost the values of honor and filial piety, and are mostly imbeciles. Perhaps he isn't used to, or doesn't believe in the existence of humans that surpass those of old.
But then again, I have 100 WAR due to my shotgun, 100 INT due to my laptop, 100 LDR due to the tactics that I stole from those of the past...what else, 100 CHR due to my electro razor and shades...(I'd say 100POL due to Fox news but that's too much for a cruel joke)
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scholar
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Nice... in any case, filial piety doesn't equate to honor. So... yeah... be more careful. Also, what do you consider a value about yourself? Charm, Intelligence, Honor, Dignity. People can become charming, gain intelligence, develop a sense of honor or dignity. As people we can learn things and adopt values so that they become added or at least accompany our skill sets. I may be an idiot, but that's what I believe.

99% of the people where I live are either ignorant out of their minds, or have just given up on everyone else. The next person to who says that Tom Brady fought in the American Revolution will get shot.
Edited by scholar, Wed Dec 2, 2009 9:25 pm.
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KauSu
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Here's the thing, scholar.
Living near dimwits doesn't make you a dimwit. It only changes your view of the world, honestly, I thought this planet was doomed due to sheer idiocy until I started actively surfing the interwebs and found people with brain cells.
Now, you ask, what good can one do? One cam improve himself, try to influence those around him and hopefully his offspring, creating a better generation with better values, to create a better world.


And, to your question, I'll have to pick "All of the above"
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Emperor Tam
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Quote:
 
Nice... in any case, filial piety doesn't equate to honor. So... yeah... be more careful. Also, what do you consider a value about yourself? Charm, Intelligence, Honor, Dignity. People can become charming, gain intelligence, develop a sense of honor or dignity.

As people we can learn things and adopt values so that they become added or at least accompany our skill sets. I may be an idiot, but that's what I believe.


I'll always marvel at your ability to so easily confuse the topic at hand with something irrelevant, and then argue that irrelevancy to death with your trademark rhetoric, kinda like breaking the speedlimit by driving in reverse :lol:

Value: Once's Principles or standards, one's judgement on what is important. For example, Fillial Piety, Religion, Honour, etc.

Skill: The ability to do something correctly, coming from past experience. For example: Driving, Swimming, Riding, etc.

Now, let's have a look at the topic title now, shall we? Does it say Let's give ourselves RoTK stats and Values? No. End of story.

Fillial Piety, is not a skill nor is Honour, being devoted to one's parents
or lord, being noble and upright, these are traits and values, not skills.

You're right when you say values such as Honour and Piety are dissapearing from today's society, and that values were much stronger 1800 years ago, but This is not the place to discuss those views why? because once again, this topic is about according to it's title:
Stats and Skills, rather than Traits and Values.

Yes, people gain and lose Traits and Values in a similar manner to how they gain and lose skills, but this does NOT make them skills. the value of Fillial Piety will never let you operate a Car, but the skill of Driving will, the value of Piety will never help you operate a horse, but the skill of Riding will. Do you understand? though they may be gained in a similar manner, they are not the same thing.
Edited by Emperor Tam, Thu Dec 3, 2009 4:13 am.
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scholar
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*sigh*

This is going to go nowhere extremely fast, and then flaming, and then animosity. Let's all just drop this, we have different ideas let's leave it at that.
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