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| Wei Musuo Mode in DW4 | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 20 2009, 10:31 PM (64 Views) | |
| IgorHorst | Oct 20 2009, 10:31 PM Post #1 |
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Soldier
  ![]](http://209.85.122.85/static/1/pip_r.png)
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Now, note that I only experienced the Wei storyline mode in DW4, so I don't know if this characterstic exist for all of them but... My understanding of the Wei storyline is that Wei stressed the need for order and stability, hence the reason why they're waging this war. It was why they fought against the Yellow Turbans, why they fought against Dong Zhuo and why they are fighting against Shu. I don't know if they were doing anything wrong in fighting their war, per se, other than possibly burning an entire city to stop Liu Bei from fleeing, and intercepting a caravan of women and kidnapping them*. It was just that the Wei forces are the ones waging war and sending their armies to their doom, and it seemed that their quest for Order was really a quest for total control over the countryside and stomping out anyone that opposes them. They weren't fighting for ideology or for money or for pleasure. They were fighting because they...wanted to stop something. It was rather...disturbing...seeing one of their officers pointing to an empty, quiet river devoid of all wildlife whatsoever, and saying that THIS is what he's fighting for. Wei isn't even adding anything to China, it is merely taking away what it feels goes against China, turning China from a chaotic place of life into a pretty wasteland. Is Wei...a force of destruction? Is that why Wei is evil? Because it does not add, only take away? I must be misinterperting this storyline. I mean, I know that SGZ made Wei out to be the bad guys, but they can't be that bad to want to kill off everyone? *Let me tell you that I hate Legends stages. Sure, I could fight that Green Shu Traitor fairly, but that would involve me fighting him. So I bare some responsiblity for attacking his wives. Sorry. Edited by IgorHorst, Oct 20 2009, 10:32 PM.
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| Manji | Oct 21 2009, 03:31 AM Post #2 |
delicious...
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Moving to the DW section.  Nice post, you bring up some interesting points. |
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| Lord Manshoon | Oct 21 2009, 04:13 AM Post #3 |
General
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Correct. Wei, like Wu and Shu, value order and stability. Their approach is merely different. Less talk of virtue and happiness, more progress and prosperity. Wei took the initiative. Shu and Wu were flat-footed/inactive early on. I also wouldn't say they sent their armies to their doom, because they made great accomplishments, even with disasters like Chi Bi popping up every once in a while. Cao Cao's ambitions weren't as tyrannical as people make them out to be. Incidentally, should you ever come across DW6, Cao Cao is portrayed much more fairly in comparison to the other two rulers, instead of the sneering, scheming prime minister he's often been made out to be. Their belief in Cao Cao's path of enforced order and prosperous law is an ideology of sorts, as is Liu Bei's support of virtue, which, truth be told, can be rather vague at times. Well, if this is the scene I think you're referring to, in which Cao Ren and Zhen Ji chat at the lake, Cao Ren's point was that Wei was fighting for peace and calm. Yes, they do want to eliminate chaos, but then again, so do Wu and Shu, who, incidentally, are also taking away from China what they feel is hindering progress. And their success would not reduce the land to a wasteland. Wei isn't a force of destruction, at least not any more so than Wu or Shu (perhaps in certain respects, but not overall). Wei is also not evil, which is quite a subjective term in warfare. Wei is no more or less evil or good than Wu or Shu. Subjectively, Wei can be viewed as the noblest cause or the foulest plague upon the land, but ultimately, it is neither, nor is Shu the absolute paragon of goodness. Edited by Lord Manshoon, Oct 21 2009, 04:24 AM.
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| Rydain | Oct 21 2009, 04:18 AM Post #4 |
The illest shorty
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It's been ages since I played through any DW4 musou mode the full way, but we are dealing with a character I've studied in great detail. The cut scene you speak of is Beyond the Mist.Cao Ren: "I was gazing out at the lake. Could it be that one day the world will be as peaceful as this?" This is meant to show that Ren cares about ending the chaos of war as opposed to perpetuating it. Such a face-value interpretation is consistent with another cut scene where Ren says that "Enemies should always be allowed to flee...But this time there is no escape!" Given the choice, he's not the type to annihilate anything in his path. Therefore, I don't see any reason to read into the silence of the lake. It's just a technical limitation or a content omission, not a hint of some deeper sordid meaning. As to why Wei is supposedly the villainous side - it's because the bias in Romance of the Three Kingdoms tends to be reflected in media that takes influence from the novel. The gameverse doesn't make much of an argument on top of that; it just portrays the kingdoms along the general lines of how RotK-familiar people tend to see them. Thus, the root of Wei Bad, Shu Good is best understood by examining the novel. RotK was written as an inspirational David vs. Goliath story. Liu Bei was seen as having the most legitimate claim to the throne because of his blood relation to the imperial line. Cao Cao's reputation took a hit because he wielded imperial authority without uniting the land (though he made great progress) and Cao Pi usurped the throne. Shu was also chosen as protagonist for its underdog appeal and the loyalty shown to Liu Bei by Guan Yu, who had long been revered as a god of war. |
 Musou Orochi: Maou Sairin character card scans My Dynasty Warriors fanfiction :: Resonance, a rubber reality horror tale | |
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| IgorHorst | Oct 21 2009, 04:39 AM Post #5 |
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Soldier
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Alright, glad to know the intention of KOEI when making this scene. I must have read too much into "Beyond the Mist", but that's likely because I can't seem to seperate gameplay from storyline. I know the warriors are fighting for something great, but usually they are killing militamen may have been drafted into an army for numerous reasons. And since these men are so easily killed, it makes the characters less like heroic warriors and more like mass murderers. But that may be why I misinterpreted Wei Musuo Mode. |
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| Rydain | Oct 21 2009, 05:11 AM Post #6 |
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The illest shorty
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It depends on your opinions about what sort of killing might be justifiable in the context of warfare. Once the fighting has begun, it generally takes more fighting to resolve the conflict. Every character is responsible for some degree of killing, but the nature of such can be interpreted in different ways depending on the intent and how it was carried out. Say that bandits are plundering and killing and they're not about to stop until somebody forces them to. Would it be heroic or murderous to kill a few in the process of defeating them? Also consider the attitudes shown towards war and leadership. Some fighters revel in death and destruction, whereas others see it as a necessary evil and try to minimize the damage. Some leaders are given to act rashly out of anger, vengeance, and so on, whereas others take a more measured approach. Some hide behind their subordinates, whereas others face consequences personally. And I've only scratched the surface with a focus on what we see in the Dynasty Warriors gameverse. The discussion gets far more detailed when arguing over the merits of different leaders in a historic sense. That gets into acts of mass murder, plunder, classist vs. populist policies, the overall effect of actions that might seem admirable or harsh at face value, and so on. Long story short - in a cast of characters where everyone is leading troops into battle to kill enemy soldiers, there are enough personality differences that you may find some of those characters to be more or less admirable than others. |
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12:49 AM Nov 27
