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| Samurai Warriors 3 [V3]; J Release: December 3rd, 2009, on Wii | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:49 pm (272,110 Views) | |
| Dai Tian | Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:58 pm Post #3501 |
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First Lieutenant
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Heh, that review doesn't surprise me. It seems like the very concept of a beat-em-up has been completely lost in the western world of gaming. But then, western reviews have never mattered with this series and so I stopped caring about those years ago. I think if motion were ever to be implemented into this series it wouldn't turn out badly if it were done like it was in No More Heroes. Having to input a motion or two at once to initiate a killing blow of some flashy kind doesn't sound like a bad thing. |
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| NekoWarrior | Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:59 pm Post #3502 |
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Han's Unifier
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Thats review makes one of those things that makes people and fans say WTF EPIC FAIL, seriously who da hell does that guy think he is he hasnt even played the game wat a tw**! SW3 is a decent game only bashed cause its on the wii...
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| Xalfrea | Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:00 pm Post #3503 |
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Keyblade hero
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That's been the case for practically every game Koei made, so what makes SW3 any different? Though I guess we can agree that those not familiar with Rotk, Sengoku, or Gundam can perhaps find it hard to get into the story of the game. For me though, gameplay is far more important then story. Edited by Xalfrea, Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:09 pm.
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| Joetri10 | Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:00 pm Post #3504 |
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Don't Even Pray For Me, No!
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The thing i feel about wii games is if its made to use wii motion, then do it... but if its not... then dont! :/... All the warrior games are all about just sitting there lifeless while mashing the buttons for mindless fun.. why ruin that but having the player move about... If they want a warrior game on the wii with wii motion.. then make a seperate game.... Ohhhh wait... they did, and look where that went.. If the game got wii motions and it turned out bad, then the reviewer would complain that is has! motion when it dident need it.. They complain couse they can :(.. (I have no intention on bashing the wii so sorry if it seems that way, its the choices people and nintendo makes) |
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| The Tiger of Kai | Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:35 pm Post #3505 |
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The Tiger of Kai
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What a harsh review... I don't understand the whole problem reviewers have with the Warriors series. Every time I read a Warriors game review, I hear the same thing every time... "This game is exactly like the previous installments." That is not true. If they would treat each Warriors game as an individual game, maybe this kind of attitude towards the games wouldn't exist. I don't have a problem with people trying out the game, playing through a few levels with a few different characters, and finding out they don't like it (at least they tried it first), but when people look at a Warriors game and then say first hand that it's going to be boring and repetitive, that's where I start wondering if they have tried the game first.I have a few friends who find Warriors games repetitive, but not once have they said it was boring and not fun. I have played SW2:Empires a lot with my brother, and he's not into the Warriors series like I am, but he still finds the game fun. Also, the motion controls (IF they existed in the game) could be either a good thing or a bad thing (kind of turning out like Katana, which I find more of an arcade-style game than an actual console game, if that makes any sense). I kind of laughed when they said your thumbs would get tired from button mashing and such. My whole arm would get tired from swinging the Wii remote back and forth to slash enemies and such (I'm not a fan of motion control at all xP), but luckily I won't have to do that with this game. I feel sorry for KOEI sometimes when these reviews are published. People should really give these games a chance to branch out. There have been different things added and different things taken away in each Warriors game (no matter how good or bad the game is). So yeah, there's my opinions on this. I hope I made at least a bit of sense.
Edited by The Tiger of Kai, Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:37 pm.
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| Chou Hi | Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:56 pm Post #3506 |
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Weapon... I have it all!
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For what it's worth, I did enjoy Katana. The story was meh, and whoever came up with the specs for Running and Swinging that god-awful ninja weapon around should get kicked in the head, but overall, I had a good time. I liked using the spear to aim for the weak-spots, and I really enjoyed that every boss battle required a different way to fight (though it would have been nice if skills built upon each other a bit). I would actually be happy if SW3 used the Katana-style boss fights occasionally, though that would have been a problem if using the GC controller. But as for weak plots, yes the games are weak in the story-telling. All of them are. Musou has a sort of expectation that if you care about the story, you either already know the basics, or will research them yourself. It would be nice if there was more growth and background and perspective, but it's very hard to do that for ~40 characters when you use them for about 90minutes of gameplay, though granted, if a movie can do it, a game should be able to as well. But many movies can't really do it, so not much to say there. I imagine that to an outsider, yes, Musou always looks the same. To me, all sports games look the same. To a Madden fan, though, there is a world of difference between 2003 and 2004's Maddens. Good for them, but I'll stick to my Asian History, thankyouverymuch. But in the end, as most people say, the Musou games are plain fun. If you care about the stories, they are entertaining. If you don't, the game can be a mindless beat'um up. It's easy to learn if you're casual, and fun to master if you're more hardcore. The graphics aren't Final Fantasy FMVs, but they do what they must to get ~30 or so guys on the screen, something that isn't usually done. So if this isn't what you're looking for, then fine. But until reviewers are unbiased, we really shouldn't expect much out of anyone except Eurogamer... because they LOOOOOVE KOEI. |
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| Cereal Killer | Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:06 pm Post #3507 |
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Tiger General
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No wonder this dumb*** thought it was so easy, he was using Masamune, a guy with freaking guns. >_> |
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| RockOn649 | Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:35 pm Post #3508 |
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The Samurai of Legend
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but you know wat ticks me off the most... is that games like Redsteele both used wiimotions and they got bad reviews so wat if Koei wants to shake it up by not adding any motions and then they go make a bad review... they need to make up their mind is wat im sayin
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| Joetri10 | Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:07 pm Post #3509 |
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Don't Even Pray For Me, No!
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Well bassicly if its not Mario, Zelda or fun happy family game, its bad.. thats pretty much how it works X D. |
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| qewlkid9 | Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:26 am Post #3510 |
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Artist Warrior
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I'm going to be completely honest here. The Warriors series will never have good reviews, get over it. It's a shame that 90% of the people in these forums are ignorant fanboys that are making a big deal out of yet ANOTHER bad review. In fact, the review is dead-on. The Warriors games are the same thing over and over and over. It is essentially the same game with a graphics update, a few more characters, maybe a new mode or two, and that's it. It retells the same exact story, with the same characters, doing the same thing, the same way. Example: Oichi will always end up married to Nagamasa, and then killing him. She's had the same storyline for the past three games and nothing but a dumb spin-off like Samurai Warriors Strikeforce is going to change that. You can't expect someone to tell it any other way. And when they do, you shouldn't get so upset over it.... because you more than anyone knows that it's the same... thing.... over... and over.... Now this is where my fanboy-ism for the series kicks in. I don't consider that a bad thing. I pick up the newest Warriors game with the faith that it'll be the same thing that I've always loved since I played Dynasty Warriors 3. In fact, if there are drastic changes made to the game, I'm usually upset about it. But not everyone is a Warriors fan like I am, like we are. Not everyone is going to go crazy when they have to right yet another review for a Warriors game when they've already played the same exact thing over and over again. Think about it through the reviewer's perspective: You are hired to play games, even if you dislike them. You have to play them long enough to where you've pretty much mastered the game up and down... then you tell your opinion about the game to the public. So what if the reviewer doesn't like the game, or the series for that matter? That was a surprise to some of you that the game got a bad review? I actually have to agree with what the reviewer is saying. Koei has done nothing innovative or fresh with the series. Oh yay! They added a new special attack and a new move! Cool, you can edit character's color palettes and make new characters! So. what. Koei has been a sloppy game developer ever since Dynasty Warriors 6. Let's just admit that. They're in it for the money. They don't care if half of the characters are clones of other characters or if 80% of them even have a story. They don't complete games, but instead unnecessarily port their incomplete games to other systems. Why is Dynasty Warriors 6 Empires needed for the PSP, honestly?! WHY?! Because they know that their precious fanboys (again, me included) will run to buy the newest Warriors game, no matter what. Edited by qewlkid9, Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:29 am.
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| Scarmiglione | Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:48 am Post #3511 |
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General
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What makes it different is the majority of Wii owners in the U.S. are not familiar with the Warriors series, and not the least bit interested in it, either. A good majority of Wiis in the U.S. are owned either by children, or people who don't normally play games, but got it for parties or exercise. And since this is the first big Koei game on a Nintendo console, there's likely to be fewer people who ARE familiar with the series than there would be on other systems. Of course I'm speaking from an American perspective, since the series is a bit of an acquired taste over here. Now, the Wii issue isn't a big deal for me, because I have a friend who "made the mistake of buying one," (his words not mine) so I can just borrow his when it comes out. @qewlkid9: I have to agree with you on the games staying the same. I like the basic formula each game has and I don't want it to change that much, either. Why change a good thing, after all? Edited by Scarmiglione, Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:57 am.
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| SRS | Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:23 am Post #3512 |
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Master of the War Trident
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Wrong. Gametrailers and Famitsu, and even IGN(for DW6, ironically) give good reviews to Warriors games.
Do not make up baseless comments on the members here, please. It's also insulting to group most of us under that idea that we're ignorant.
Wrong. It's quite off the mark.
There are enough times that the Musou series has changed things up to make this an iffy statement to make. It's like saying every Metal Gear or Tales game is the same thing.
If you try to put it in very broad, generic terms, then you'd be right. But then who would logically do that with any game series unless you're trying to make a negative point about it?
Wrong. Wrong on so many accounts. I will explain in the next part.
Absolutely wrong. The only game this occurs in is SW2. She doesn't kill Nagamasa in SW1 OR SW3, in both times having a very different story regarding how the relationship comes out between her, Nagamasa and Nobunaga. This goes for several other examples one could make up, as SW3 has gone and broken these molds. I can name maybe three or so stories that have not changed since SW1.
Except there are reviews that have already done so, and from a much more informed and level view than the ones people complain about.
And what about people who never touched one of these games? How do these sorts of reviews inform them of what qualities or drawbacks the game has if the main point being made is "it's the same as last time?" That would mean nothing to someone who has never played it. And "going crazy" over a game has nothing to do with being a reviewer.
As someone who has written game reviews before, I can say that is not true. You cannot possibly expect a reviewer to spend enough time with a game to "master" it(especially if it's something like a fighting game or RPG!) before reviewing the game, that's horribly time-consuming especially when a reviewer might have multiple games he/she needs to review in time for when it needs to be published. What a (good) reviewer needs to do is to both explore and critique the main points of a game, and also explore any new features it brings if the game is part of a series, or is part of a particular genre so as to see "what makes this stand out from the rest?" And ultimately, present this information for the benefit of the people who will read the review.
Nobody cares(or should care, rather) if the reviewer doesn't like the game. What matters is how the review is made and whether it is made fairly, and this review failed to do so.
I can guarantee that I am one of maybe ten people on this forum who has extensively played Sengoku Musou 3, and you are vastly understating some of the improvements made to the game. I can understand this, however, as if you don't use the new feature that provides depth to the gameplay, it will of course seem like the same old thing. But in that case, it's your fault, not the game's. It's like saying one FPS is the same as any other FPS when all you can do is camp and spray.
Wrong. Please stop making things up. If you have not played Multi Raid or SW3 and have not experienced what Koei can do when they get creative, then you should not be making such comments.
And so is everyone. What change does that make?
I'd like your brainreader machine, it could sell billions. [quote[They don't complete games, but instead unnecessarily port their incomplete games to other systems. Why is Dynasty Warriors 6 Empires needed for the PSP, honestly?! WHY?![/quote] Yes, because obviously one or two games in the entire history of Koei's work in the industry is an ironclad example of what they do in general. |
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| qewlkid9 | Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:52 am Post #3513 |
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Artist Warrior
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Sure, but sites like IGN rate it not only by a SOLE review, but by the player's reviews. And since when has a review done anything of huge deal in the first place? None of us that play Warriors games read the reviews to decide if it's a good game or not.
I've lurked pretty much all sections of the forum since 2007. 90% of the users that I've seen pretty much post: "OMG I LUV THAT CHARACTER!~`!!11!!1!!!!ONE!!one!!!!eleven!!!" and then the other 10% make useful intellegent posts. A statement like that shouldn't insult anyone because I didn't state anyone specifically. If you're insulted by it, then you considered yourself in the 90% group. ![]()
Yet you fail to state any of these changes that make your arguement valid. Metal Gear and Tales games' sequels are essentially more than any of the Warriors games' squeals. Metal Gear follows a story line, and with each sequel, the story continues. Pretty much is the same with Tales or pretty much any other RPG series. When was the last time you heard of an RPG whose sequel was EXACTLY THE SAME but with a few new features and flashy graphics.... but wasn't a remake? Never. But that is essentially what every Koei game sequel is. Proof, kthx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2e8gk9vrg
No. I'm looking at it by the fact that I've played Dynasty Warriors 3, 4, 4XL, 4E, 5, 5XL, 5E, 6, 6E, Advanced, DS, PSP, PSP vol. 2... Samurai Warriors 1, 1XL, 2, 2XL, 2E, PSP... And that is exactly what has changed since then: It is essentially the same game with a graphics update, a few more characters, maybe a new mode or two, and that's it.
That's all I needed to hear about that, thanks.
And people that dislike the game disagree with that review just like we disagree with reviews that bash the game.... so what?
Go ahead and review every handheld mainstream pokemon game that's been released. I dare you. You'll say the same thing in every review. The game play is exactly the same, except they added new stuff. After the 17th pokemon game you'll be so sick of it that the only thing you'll want to write in the review is "it's the same ol' thing." Same applies in this situation, with the Warriors games.
From what I know, you aren't a hired nor a professional reviewer of... anything. So I could careless about anything you have to say on this subject, thanks.
If you don't like the game, then you aren't going to rate the game very fairly, no? Again, back to the pokemon statement. I'd be so fed up with reviewing them that'd it'd be half-assed and one-sided of a review if anything.
Then everyone else besides those 10 people don't matter, along with their opinions.... right? And yes, every FPS is the same. Use right analog stick to aim.... spray the trigger. Woop woop, I killed an alien. Big deal.
That's when they get "creative". Half the time, KOEI makes half-assed, sloppy games. Like Dynasty Warriors 6. Ever since then, not all the characters have been fully developed, had storylines, etc. Like they should be. Samurai Warriors 2 was perfect, excellent. Then they got lazy with Samurai Warriors 2 XL and decided that some voice acting wasn't necessary, although they've fully voice acted every line of every character of every level in past games. Sloppy and lazy is what that is. They obviously don't care about their game's content when they sell incomplete games like Dynasty Warriors 6, and then run off to port all their past games to other systems.
Yes. Yes it is. Glad we agree~ Edited by qewlkid9, Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:53 am.
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| SRS | Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:59 am Post #3514 |
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Master of the War Trident
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I see. Well, I have nothing more to address to you, as it is a waste of my good time. Good day. |
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| Teahouse | Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:32 am Post #3515 |
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Member Title
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I don't always agree with Koei's several-steps-forward-few-steps-back approach to game development, but regardless I'm sure most devotees will continue to suck the teet of the cash-cow that is the Warriors series. Edited by Teahouse, Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:35 am.
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| Oreadia | Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:18 am Post #3516 |
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Beautiful and Grace are the most beautiful words from the planet
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I read on GameFAQ saying there are CodeBreaker codes for the Wii Samurai Warriors 3 Japanese Edition A codebreaker really exist for the Wii? If so I want to buy it because it will help me a lot in defeating Murasame lol Please help here =] Thank you very much for your time |
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| Rakolai | Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:03 am Post #3517 |
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Deal with it.
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I'm pretty sure there is, but why would you get it just to beat Murasame? Wouldn't it be more satisfying to just beat him yourself? |
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| Black Angel | Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:25 am Post #3518 |
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Nothing is certain, everything is possible.
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Great day. Reviews? Nah, that's just opinion. Don't like the game? Who cares, there's a hell lot of other games out there, i don't see any "Everybody must play this game" label anywhere on the cover. The same? Of course the same story, it's "Sengoku" and the story will keep the same even until SW 1000, scene changes is what needed. If it is not "the same thing", then it is not the same series or sequel. If they desire a "different thing" then see that crap Dynasty Warriors 6. Strike Force is just a different game from the ordinary Dynasty Warriors series. Ignorant Fanboy? There's no "must make useful intelligent posts" rule in this forum as i remember, just no spamming and unreasonable bashing (like you did). Money? Come on! They didn't made those games to comfort us! They are corporation after all, not a group of bored people who made those games as a bore killer. Hope for another great day. |
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| LoW | Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:23 am Post #3519 |
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Legend
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All this argument about characters having "same stories" is exactly why I prefer to have a lot of fictional elements in these games. Although stories may still seem repetive (see Mitsuhide, rebelling against Nobunaga every single time), at least you can always expect to see something unexpected by having that fictional touch. By the way Merry Christmas and happy holidays everyone. |
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| Fūma | Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:48 am Post #3520 |
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The Dragon Has Returned
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Merry christmas for everyone! I finally got my copy of SW2XL Regarding those stories, adding fictional elements for stories isn't always necessary in order to have a different story. For example, Oichi: Her relationship with Katsuie isn't something Koei has already gone into. It would be fully historical, seeing that she married Katsuie, but was divorced by Nobunaga to secure the alliances with Azai by marrying her to Nagamasa. When Nagamasa died, Oichi went back to Katsuie. At Shizugatake, she didn't want to leave the castle, instead stayed with Katsuie until they both died. So the Oichi-Katsuie relationship is something I wanted since SW2. The same old Oichi-Nagamasa thing gets boring after all. Edited by Fūma, Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:49 am.
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| wildcard | Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:53 am Post #3521 |
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The one... the amazing... the powerful... ME!
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Uh-oh. Of all the examples to use Metal Gear XD Sorry if you do not like to read this, but... If you think Metal Gear varies in STORY LINE ... you actually might want to re-play SW1 and SW2 and give a statment wether the review on SW3 is correct or not AFTER you played the latest installment. It might not be an (endless) continuation, but it shifts the focus of each characters story to different time periodes and different relationships - sometimes even made up ones - and thus is different. Then again you didn't even knew the difference about Oichi, even thought you claim to have played those games so... I guess someone like you would be unalbe to see the difference.
Uhm... EXCUSE ME?! Did I miss the point where someone nominated you the god of games and everyone accepted it? Sorry if this is offensive, but... Who the hell do you think you are that YOU can make claims on how they have to do a game? You say they have not completed DW6? Maybe they wanted a new start and that included not having all characters in. We do not know about their motivations and neither do you. For me, from a simple marketing and development point (and I do work in the software development branch so keep any wise-ass remarks to yourself on that behalve) DW6 with the extra content was only made because of the high fan-demand and the knowledge that it would sell. Warriors Orochi Z is the only game I do not quite unterstand the motivations behind making it. As for them porting the game... I'm still surprised seeing people complaining about that. Instead of being glad that Koei makes their game avaible for pretty much all consoles, there are still warmongers that scream "OMG! KOEI IS ONLY IN FOR THE MONEY!!!"... Like we all are. I know I wouldn't work if I didn't get paid. Simple as that. I haven't played the game myself yet, just watched the live streaming of both Tets and Sera and even thought I was not holding the controler in my own hands, I could see the differences, thus I'm unable to agree with either you or the review. In my personal oppinion - one I have held for as long as I've been playing games - people who do not like a certain game-style should not be allowed/forced to write reviews on it. To give a final example. The Projekt Zero series (called Fatal Frame in other countries I believe) is basically in game-play terms the same in every part. It changes a bit, but it is rather the same. What changes is the story. Sounds familiar? Yes, like Metal Gear in fact. The review it got? Pretty much the same as SW3 this time around. "It's always the same, bla bla bla". If story change alone is not enough for a game to be not considered the same as earlier installments, we might as well call all games copies of each other. I mean, how many RPGs are there - especially Tales or Final Fantasy - where you aren't supposed to save the worls in the end? I don't know if what I've taken the time to write out will actually help you see a difference. If it doesn't... to bad for you, I guess. To everyone else: Happy X-mas
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| Kiheiji | Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:06 pm Post #3522 |
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Miracle Violence
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Well, it doesn't really matter if the stories go "repetitive" for me. Mitsuhide will always have Honnoji cause it's probably the most important moment of his life (maybe the whole period, third to Onin War and Sekigahara), but the Tenkai thing is a good adding, I say. Even without it, I won't complain (Not much). Well, I actually hope for Ichi's relationship with Katsuie to be more explored. I fell pity for Katsuie, game-wise. He does so much, but Oichi seems to never shuts up about Nagamasa. I think it's quite a shame Katsuie got no story this time. Well, hope he will get one in SW3XL. |
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| LoW | Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:15 pm Post #3523 |
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Legend
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Ok, so let's assume that in SW4 Oichi's story involves Katsuie and her last battle is Shizukatage. Once they have done that, what about her story in SW5? SW1, SW2, SW3 or SW4 story again? |
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| Fūma | Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:23 pm Post #3524 |
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The Dragon Has Returned
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Well then when SW5 comes out there are likely plenty of new characters which could interact with Oichi. And they could do the Oichi-Katsuie thing second time, because as they already have done the Oichi-Nagamasa thing three times, I see no problem with that. |
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| Joetri10 | Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:37 pm Post #3525 |
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Don't Even Pray For Me, No!
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Well done to qewlkid9 for completely pissing everyone off, i was going to reply to something of what you said but i think its all been said.. But il just say you call yourself a fan anyway when you say stuff like that.. . But tbh one could think its the same thing in each game, but play sw1 for an hour, and then play sw3.. or play dw2 for an hour.. and then dw5.. Theres more of a change then u notice... and why should they change the one thing that makes the game, dw6 took a different step with the renbu and strikeforce took a hole new step with all that you can do on that.. theres not really that! much you can do with a series like this, only make stuff better and add some stuff.. Only fans of the game and people who have played the game from day one will understand..
Edited by Joetri10, Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:39 pm.
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SW3 is a decent game only bashed cause its on the wii...

I hope I made at least a bit of sense.










. But tbh one could think its the same thing in each game, but play sw1 for an hour, and then play sw3.. or play dw2 for an hour.. and then dw5.. Theres more of a change then u notice... and why should they change the one thing that makes the game, dw6 took a different step with the renbu and strikeforce took a hole new step with all that you can do on that.. theres not really that! much you can do with a series like this, only make stuff better and add some stuff.. Only fans of the game and people who have played the game from day one will understand..
7:31 PM Jul 11