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Cao Zhen; Wei's Supreme General
Topic Started: Sun Aug 8, 2010 2:12 am (739 Views)
Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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Cao Zhen is more well known for holding back 3 of Zhuge Liang's campaigns, and he was a constant menace to Shu's Han Zhong
This means the guy was not any dumbass in the era
But, I ask: Why is he underrated in DW and RoTK and even in the novel, if he had such deeds?
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Don't recall him being a menace to the Hanzhong?

The games tend to follow the novel and people seem to like major confrontations. Cao Cao the cruel genius vs Liu Bei the saint, Yuan Shao vs Gongsun Zan, Lu Bu vs Zhang Fei and so on. The novel, partly to make Liu Bei being a saint more believable, makes Zhuge Liang the brains behind Shu and makes him a super genius. To explain Zhuge Liang's defeats needs a brilliant man, a rival so as the old guard die out, people get thrilled by the battle of wits. Cao Zhen has to take a hit so this can happen, he suffers so Sima Yi can be that great rival.

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Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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Dongzhou
Sun Aug 8, 2010 7:25 pm
Don't recall him being a menace to the Hanzhong? The games tend to follow the novel and people seem to like major confrontations. Cao Cao the cruel genius vs Liu Bei the saint, Yuan Shao vs Gongsun Zan, Lu Bu vs Zhang Fei and so on. The novel, partly to make Liu Bei being a saint more believable, makes Zhuge Liang the brains behind Shu and makes him a super genius. To explain Zhuge Liang's defeats needs a brilliant man, a rival so as the old guard die out, people get thrilled by the battle of wits. Cao Zhen has to take a hit so this can happen, he suffers so Sima Yi can be that great rival.
I believe there's a difference from taking a hit and taking a critical
Cao Zhen's skills were underrated a lot by the novel. He's shown as a complete dumbass, when he wasn't. Zhuge Liang may be overrated as he is, but any fool you meet on the street wouldn't stop him in his campaigns( Ma Zun and Xiahou Mao are dead proof)
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Are dead proof that the novel hit several Wei characters? That is all that it is really. Zhuge Liang benefits from Liu Bei, among others, losing their abilities, so Sima Yi benefits from the same to Wei characters like Guo Huai and Cao Zhen.

Remember who is the mind behind Wei's defence for all the novel NC's is Sima Yi, LGZ for the sake of genius rivalry needs to change it from two separate commanders to one supreme strategist. Cao Zhen has to take a dive

Yes Cao Zhen was a very able commander historically but LGZ's choice of Sima Yi as the rival was probably the correct one
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Demonic Warrior
Emperor's Retainer
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Dongzhou
Sun Aug 8, 2010 10:23 pm
Are dead proof that the novel hit several Wei characters? That is all that it is really. Zhuge Liang benefits from Liu Bei, among others, losing their abilities, so Sima Yi benefits from the same to Wei characters like Guo Huai and Cao Zhen. Remember who is the mind behind Wei's defence for all the novel NC's is Sima Yi, LGZ for the sake of genius rivalry needs to change it from two separate commanders to one supreme strategist. Cao Zhen has to take a dive Yes Cao Zhen was a very able commander historically but LGZ's choice of Sima Yi as the rival was probably the correct one
Seeing from that angle, yes. But he could have made a better image for Cao Zhen, Guo Huai and Chen Tai ( as I said, even Chen Tai is underrated)
It was kinda unjust. He preferred Deng Ai and Zhong Hui, who only really stole the scene at Shu's destruction, to Guo Huai and Chen Tai, who prevented Jiang Wei's advance
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Zhong Hui gets mentioned in only a few chapters in the novel, he hardly benefits from others being hit.

Deng Ai was a brilliant general anyway but yes, he does get a little too much credit for the defensive work against Shu which should be shared out between him, Chen Tai and Guo Huai. The novel gives Chen Tai some credit to be fair but again, it is a rivalry issue
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Ero-Sennin
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Plenty of underrated Wei generals, Cao Zhen, I'll agree, a great commander, who prevented Zhuge's pushes north, let's also not forget Hao Zhao, who aided in some of those defenses under Sima Yi's recommendation, and Wang Shuang, but we have to remember, the novel is kinda based with Shu.
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Dongzhou
Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Hao Zhao was Cao Zhen's pick and with a very short record, his defence is vastly overatted, though good and historically Wang Shuang didn't do much. More credit Guo Huai and Zhang He for their efforts
Edited by Dongzhou, Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:55 pm.
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