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Sengoku Musou 3 Z; Release date confirmed, scans inside
Topic Started: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:17 pm (189,790 Views)
Mei Ling
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The night is dark and full of cherry blossoms
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I find it rather odd and slightly annoying that every single DW/SW just HAS to go to the PS3. It's ridiculous. There really is no point to it, in my opinion. While I am happy for the expansion, I do not see why they needed to make a duplicate one for the PS3. Just a thought...
It makes me wonder what they will do for Aya in her story mode...hopefully she will be independent somewhat, and not always with Kenshin.
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The Outsider
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The Demon's Rival
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I think I may just invest in Xtreme Legends for SW3 nowadays :/ . I mean, Toshiie and Katsuie are undefeatably my favorite chracters from SW, and, they both get storiy modes in 2 SWXL's, how bizarre :mellow: .

Also, Masanori is also a character I'm a big fan of so, that's also good news. Kinda like the perfect SW experience for me, all I have to hope for now is a port to the EU, please :XD . Lu Meng and Katsuie news all in one day, I'm so, so gonna be high for a couple days.
Edited by The Outsider, Wed Nov 3, 2010 2:57 am.
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superDioplus
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Condemned Red Spirit
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Mei Ling
Wed Nov 3, 2010 2:24 am
I find it rather odd and slightly annoying that every single DW/SW just HAS to go to the PS3. It's ridiculous. There really is no point to it, in my opinion. While I am happy for the expansion, I do not see why they needed to make a duplicate one for the PS3. Just a thought... It makes me wonder what they will do for Aya in her story mode...hopefully she will be independent somewhat, and not always with Kenshin.
Well it maybe ok on your opinion, but companies gotta make money to survive (on top of that, gaining profit) in order to make more games. So if you wanna see SW4 or SW5, you just have to support every title they release, doesn't mean you have to buy every game per se, but that's just the way it is.
Edited by superDioplus, Wed Nov 3, 2010 2:58 am.
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Amakusa
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Emperor's Retainer
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donthatekongming
Wed Nov 3, 2010 2:17 am
Do you really have no life to just bash on people for no other erason than self satisfaction?
Is that why you decided to flame instead? I'm rather dissatisfied with fair weather fans. You clearly didn't like it since it wasn't on the PS3, but now that it is, you suddenly like it.
Edited by Amakusa, Wed Nov 3, 2010 3:11 am.
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Meliel
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Sparks Falling Flat
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I'm hoping Gracia's storyline will have both Magoichi and Mitsuhide. It'd be interesting to see her have a close friend in Magoichi but still remain with her father. Imagine her being all torn and what not about who she should help when Nobunaga decides it's time to destroy the rebels and what not.
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Alpha Maeda
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Former Pilot of ZAFT
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Woohoo! better come out here to fix the mistake of ever making it Wii only in the first place.

Oh, and Okuni = Story mode always ='s win.
Edited by Alpha Maeda, Wed Nov 3, 2010 3:32 am.
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Zoned
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Twerk Team Captain
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I don't get the slow frame rate thing I have it on the wii and it is smooth and is not noticeable anymore at the start it feels weird but you should be playing it for the enjoyment and not be bothered because" it looks slow!" or "It's not up to my standards of amazing graphics!"
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Keneticam
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Right.......
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x_QiaoxChan_x
Tue Nov 2, 2010 10:42 pm
okuni gets a story yay! (^-^) is this comming out in the u.s? if so then ill just wait to get it then (i still haven't gotten around to getting sw3(wii)yet)

and to all those who bitched about wanting/waiting for a ps3 port, i have put my foot in my mouth :) lol

i have a gut feeling that kineticam is very happy about gracia being in lol hey i'm for it, mroe girls! WOOT!
Your so right! lolol :lol: Everyone on here knows im still and always will be Gracias number 1 biggest fan and supporter. Shes my favorite koei character ever created, so of course im ecstatic. Look at my ava and sig! LOL nough said. hehehehe :wub: :wub: :XD
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Itsuka
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Just Your Friendly Neighborhood Shadow
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ROFLope
Wed Nov 3, 2010 3:57 am
I don't get the slow frame rate thing I have it on the wii and it is smooth and is not noticeable anymore at the start it feels weird but you should be playing it for the enjoyment and not be bothered because" it looks slow!" or "It's not up to my standards of amazing graphics!"
I have to say I agree. Yes, it is a little different at first, but I have to say that after playing it for a little bit I don't notice it at all.

At any rate, I'm excited for this~ And can't wait to get some renders for Gracia and Aya that I can play around with. X3
Edited by Itsuka, Wed Nov 3, 2010 4:04 am.
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AdawgDaFAB
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Han's Unifier
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I have played countless hours of both the Japanese and English releases of the game, and I have to say the framerate was a major drawback. I did a marathon leading up to SM3 of SW1XL and SW2XL. Going from those to 3 was a HUGE noticeable difference in smoothness of the controls and motions. The slow framerate made everything feel more jerky and less fluid to me.

I still love the game (the Rengi dynamic made the combat so much better IMO), but if they can fix the BS framerate it will only improve everything. It's truly a joke that, to the best of my knowledge, EVERY single other Musou game has been 60 fps (except Hokuto perhaps ... not sure on that one) besides SM/SW 3.

Edit: I completely agree with everything in HnB's post below mine as well.
Edited by AdawgDaFAB, Wed Nov 3, 2010 5:01 am.
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HokutoNoBen
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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ROFLope
Wed Nov 3, 2010 3:57 am
I don't get the slow frame rate thing I have it on the wii and it is smooth and is not noticeable anymore at the start it feels weird but you should be playing it for the enjoyment and not be bothered because" it looks slow!" or "It's not up to my standards of amazing graphics!"
And..if your enjoyment is directly related to frame rate...? :uh:

Seriously, one of the few things I've always come to expect from these Musou is basically a consistent 60FPS. It means no input lag, and you have full control over your character. It's what I prefer to have in my action games.

For whatever reason, SW3 on Wii runs at only half the framerate that its predecessors did. That is something I definitely hope will be remedied in the PS3 version, because that sort of thing is inexcusable.
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Teahouse
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What a coincidence, I almost bought a copy of Samurai Warriors 3 for the Wii today, but I wasn't able to get to the Gamestop in time before it closed.

I'm certainly going to abstain from purchasing the Wii version and patiently await the PS3 release.
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AdawgDaFAB
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Han's Unifier
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Taciturnity
Wed Nov 3, 2010 5:08 am
What a coincidence, I almost bought a copy of Samurai Warriors 3 for the Wii today, but I wasn't able to get to the Gamestop in time before it closed.

I'm certainly going to abstain from purchasing the Wii version and patiently await the PS3 release.
Similarly I have played both the NTSC-J and PAL versions of 3, and found out about 3Z shortly before getting the NTSC-U version. Instead of doing that I'm just going to wait and get Z (either by import or English purchase depending on release dates - Hoping for a DW7 type release :sly: ).
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DarkDante
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A new power is rising
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Hot damn it's about time they announced this we all knew it was coming... Katsuie getting a story is instant purchase for me, that's how much I'm a Shibata fanboy! :D
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Amakusa
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Emperor's Retainer
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HokutoNoBen
Wed Nov 3, 2010 4:57 am
Seriously, one of the few things I've always come to expect from these Musou is basically a consistent 60FPS. It means no input lag, and you have full control over your character. It's what I prefer to have in my action games.
No. Your framerate has NOTHING to do with input lag. Input lag is input lag. Input lag is in nearly all cases caused by your LCD or HDTV.
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HokutoNoBen
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Amakusa
Wed Nov 3, 2010 6:27 am
HokutoNoBen
Wed Nov 3, 2010 4:57 am
Seriously, one of the few things I've always come to expect from these Musou is basically a consistent 60FPS. It means no input lag, and you have full control over your character. It's what I prefer to have in my action games.
No. Your framerate has NOTHING to do with input lag. Input lag is input lag. Input lag is in nearly all cases caused by your LCD or HDTV.
While true that LCDs can have a factor (if you don't fool around with the settings a bit, at least...), yes, frame rate DOES have say in the matter.

Take a look at this article from a few years ago that Digital Foundry had a direct hand in.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lag-factor-article

Excerpt from Article
 
...As Neversoft itself is responsible for most of the latest Guitar Hero games, where latency is hugely important, it is perhaps not surprising that Mick West took such an interest in this subject, and his conclusions are intriguing.

* The lowest latencies a video game can have is 50ms (three frames) - the PS3 XMB runs at this rate, but few games reach it.
* Most 60FPS games have a 66.67ms latency - Ridge Racer 7, for example.
* 30FPS games have a minimum potential lag of 100ms, but many exceed this.
* Game developers should test their own games using the camera technique in order to weed out bugs - West says that Heavenly Sword's response slows down to 300ms just by turning the character, and reckons it's a technical issue that should have been resolved before going gold with the game.
* Citing GTAIV as an example, West suggests that a 166ms response is where gamers notice controller lag, which could also explain the Killzone 2 furore too.
* Game reviewers should accurately measure latency for their reviews where controller lag is an issue, in the hope that sloppy game response times come under far more scrutiny.


So yeah. The moment you start dropping the framerate from any where beyond that vaunted 60FPS? You automatically include an element of input lag in the form of in-game latency, which is separate from any other elements that may come from your TV and/or controller. This is where a lot of "non-responsive controls" complaints start out.

This is also among many reasons why people are balking at the idea of a new Devil May Cry being made by Ninja Theory. 60FPS is a PREREQUISITE for a good DMC game, and thus far, Ninja Theory can't even get a decent framerate that locks at 30 in either of their two games (Heavenly Sword, Enslaved).
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donthatekongming
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Yes the framerate thing is annoying.

Yes you get USED to it....but we shouldnt have to get USED to soemthing to enjoy it. We should be playing it cause its fun action like all the warriors games. I seriously felt like I could swing half the weapons faster then the characters in the game.

And that is not fun...lol

So all im wishing for is EU version or english subs........and faster frames

And Amakusa........I have always loved every SW. I just said it sucked they only had on Wii. Not that the game sucked. Dnt attack people just cuz your bored. Its childish
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Itsuka
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Just Your Friendly Neighborhood Shadow
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Okay, I should rephrase what I said before. It only took me a matter of minutes to adjust to the difference. Call me crazy, but I don't pay that close attention to it. And I have yet to notice any sort of lag in the input either. Then again, I have a normal TV, so perhaps that helps. But that's just me. You don't have to agree, whatever.

I don't play the games for speed, I play them because I like the characters and the general mechanics.

Point is, I'm gonna enjoy the game, you guys can complain all you want, I'm done with reading it anymore. This sort of constant negativity has effectively ruined what was an exciting announcement for me enough.
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Amakusa
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Emperor's Retainer
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HokutoNoBen
Wed Nov 3, 2010 6:50 am
* Most 60FPS games have a 66.67ms latency - Ridge Racer 7, for example.
* 30FPS games have a minimum potential lag of 100ms, but many exceed this.
The minimum projected latency difference is 33ms according to that data. That difference is pretty negligible such that it's no wonder it didn't make a difference.

Also, running at 60FPS does not mean they all run at 66.67ms latency.


Quote:
 
Dnt attack people just cuz your bored. Its childish


Might want to think about that a little more before you posted it. It actually also applies to you since I haven't personally insulted you yet.
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WarHawk
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Where did bandana go?
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Oh, I wish KOEI add at least one new character in XL (Ukita or Ii), but it seems wouldn`t happening. In first XL were added four characters, in second XL five, then it will be really good course to continue progression. Left three spots, hm and three cutting from samurai series characters. You know what I mean. :shifty:
Edited by WarHawk, Wed Nov 3, 2010 7:43 am.
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HokutoNoBen
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Amakusa
Wed Nov 3, 2010 7:36 am
HokutoNoBen
Wed Nov 3, 2010 6:50 am
* Most 60FPS games have a 66.67ms latency - Ridge Racer 7, for example.
* 30FPS games have a minimum potential lag of 100ms, but many exceed this.
The minimum projected latency difference is 33ms according to that data. That difference is pretty negligible such that it's no wonder it didn't make a difference.

Also, running at 60FPS does not mean they all run at 66.67ms latency.
Minimum potential != what most 30FPS games have.

As they said in the article, MANY 30FPS game do more to exceed that margin several times over. You really only stand to get that 100ms likely when your character is just standing still, and you're not moving the camera around. The moment you start moving, you may get any where from 50-100+ms added to the equation, and again, THAT is where problems begin.

The last page of the article has a listing that compares various games, and the latencies thereof:

For example:

Article Snippet
 

Grand Theft Auto IV 133ms-200ms
Street Fighter IV 67ms


GTA4 is a game that struggles to stay around 30FPS. As a result, you may get more delay depending on where you are, and what's happening on screen.

SF4, on the other hand, is a Fighting Game that is locked at 60FPS. In a FG, the last thing you want to have is the risk of dropped frames impeding game play performance, so this is pretty much a golden standard for games in this genre.

But to bring it home, the article pretty much makes it plain.

Article
 
In-game latency, or the level of response in our controls, is one of the most crucial elements in game-making, not just in the here and now, but for the future too. It's fair to say that players today have become conditioned to what the truly hardcore PC gamers would consider to be almost unacceptably high levels of latency to the point where cloud gaming services such as OnLive and Gaikai rely heavily upon it.

The average videogame runs at 30FPS, and appears to have an average lag in the region of 133ms. On top of that is additional delay from the display itself, bringing the overall latency to around 166ms. Assuming that the most ultra-PC gaming set-up has a latency less than one third of that, this is good news for cloud gaming in that there's a good 80ms or so window for game video to be transmitted from client to server.

But in the meantime, while overall "pings" between console and gamer remain rather high, the bottom line seems to be that players are now used to it, to the point where developers - like Infinity Ward - centred on getting the very lowest possible latencies are using that to give their games an edge over the competition.


So again, FRAME RATE DOES MATTER. It may not matter to those who are not sensitive to the differences between 30/60FPS, but it's not something to belittle for those of us who do, either.
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ChrisX
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Formerly known as Neo Juste Belmont
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Um, guys? Isn't this topic about SM3Z, not Frame Rates?
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HokutoNoBen
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Neo Juste Belmont
Wed Nov 3, 2010 8:15 am
Um, guys? Isn't this topic about SM3Z, not Frame Rates?
SM3 for Wii had 30FPS. A lot of us who are interested in SM3Z are hoping for 60FPS.

This is relevant to the topic at hand. :hehe:
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Tetsuo9999
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Emperor's Retainer
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Seeing as this is an action game first and foremost, the framerate matters quite a bit. It's also the glaring flaw in the original version, so it makes sense that everyone is concerned about it being fixed in the port. Playing ANY other Musou game immediately before playing this one is extremely awkward, and just doesn't feel right, and with games like Basara 3 maintaining a steady framerate on the Wii, I still can't understand why this game had such choppy gameplay. Still, I'm interested in the port if they fix this one major isue.
Edited by Tetsuo9999, Wed Nov 3, 2010 8:27 am.
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Furinkazen
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So err... not been here a while
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If this is released in the EU, please, not downloadable... my wii doesn't have an internet connection...

*offers prayer to Koei Gods*
Edited by Furinkazen, Wed Nov 3, 2010 9:44 am.
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