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Dynasty Warriors 7 [v4]; READ the first post before posting.
Topic Started: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:32 am (1,039,548 Views)
TrevorxTravesty
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天下布武
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I think they should've kept all the move sets from DW5, but just tweaked them more & expanded upon them. We HAD 48 unique movesets, yet that was cut down so 'everyone can have the same bs, sans an EX attack & a few musous'.
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ThreeKingdomsWarrior
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Legend
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Fantaji
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:10 pm
majed12345
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:09 pm
Fantaji
Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:58 pm
I must be the only one not to be disturbed that the characters can only have an EX attack and Musou attacks different from each other.
No, me to
1 EX & 2 mousu attacks is good and don't forget the combined
meveset of two weapons and switch attacks

all of these things is fine with me
:bowdown: I'm glad to see other people think like me.
Maybe we could need some LOGIC-THINKING here:

Moreover, we have about 40 different weapon-types and about 60 characters.
I think, i will not have the feeling, that the movesets i have just seen in one of my playthrough's are similar to the movesets i'm seeing in my next playthrough.
I mean, for example:
We have how much, 5-6 Dao-users?
I don't think , that i am going to play with all Dao-users at once (i would be very dumb if i would do that). That would be too monotonous.
I would play maybe with Sima Zhao first (Dao-user). And then, after i played through with some other weapon-types, maybe after 7-8 playthrough's, i would only then use again someone with the Dao-blade. Maybe Sun Jian.
That would give some variety. And even then, i would have forgotten the Dao-moveset i used with Sima Zhao in my first playthrough.
And the unique EX-attacks and several different musous will help very much to let me forget about something "cloned".

40 different weapons. And each of them has 2 different musou-attacks. That means at least 80 different musous.
And not to mention, the EX-attacks for every weapon.
Do you really think, you will remember all of them?
Edited by ThreeKingdomsWarrior, Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:55 pm.
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TheOneEyedWOLF
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Benzod
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:44 pm
It actually doe make quite abut of sense sharing charge attacks with the new weapon system. It puts every character on an equal page with each weapon, while giving everyone something unique for the weapon that's best suited to them.

Yes, it would be epic if we got 62 different movesets for everyone. But what if I wanted to use Zhao Yun's spear with Ma Chao? Why should I be forced to use attacks with it that other characters wouldn't use? Then I suppose they'd have to give everyone their own weapon class to distinguish then, which would end up looking a bit odd with 10 different sword styles to choose from. So then they would need to think of different weapons for everyone to work that and they'd just get more and more outlandish (imagine 30 or so officers with weapons as WTF inducing as a paintbrush).

So thats basically the way it would have to work. Sorry if you've not understood this post, it probably sounds far better in my head. If you did however, I applaud you.
This.

The game would look a bit silly with 10 or 15 different sword groups/classes to choose from (one for each character's moveset). Personally, I think giving each character an equal-ish moveset BUT giving them something to distinguish themeselves as well (Musou, EX attack) is fine. Some of you guys might not think that though and that's fine by me.

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ZhaoThun
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First Lieutenant
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Well i'll say this and i am done about the charge attack thing but first think first i dont know if i was agreesive towards other members but if i was i realy ask sorry

ok now trevorx i too think that it would be good to see diferent charge attacks it will make the game more funnier,
but i also think that even if "cloned" charge attacks are in, then there will not be so much damage this game is already awesome.

again sorry if i was agreesive towards other members

sorry i write a litle slow so this is a litle further than it was suposed to be :XD
Edited by ZhaoThun, Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:55 pm.
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Deleted User
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TheOneEyedWOLF
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:53 pm
Benzod
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:44 pm
It actually doe make quite abut of sense sharing charge attacks with the new weapon system. It puts every character on an equal page with each weapon, while giving everyone something unique for the weapon that's best suited to them.

Yes, it would be epic if we got 62 different movesets for everyone. But what if I wanted to use Zhao Yun's spear with Ma Chao? Why should I be forced to use attacks with it that other characters wouldn't use? Then I suppose they'd have to give everyone their own weapon class to distinguish then, which would end up looking a bit odd with 10 different sword styles to choose from. So then they would need to think of different weapons for everyone to work that and they'd just get more and more outlandish (imagine 30 or so officers with weapons as WTF inducing as a paintbrush).

So thats basically the way it would have to work. Sorry if you've not understood this post, it probably sounds far better in my head. If you did however, I applaud you.
This.

The game would look a bit silly with 10 or 15 different sword groups/classes to choose from (one for each character's moveset). Personally, I think giving each character an equal-ish moveset BUT giving them something to distinguish themeselves as well (Musou, EX attack) is fine. Some of you guys might not think that though and that's fine by me.

Yes, that's what I said earlier. :mellow:
But some people do not accept this.
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TrevorxTravesty
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天下布武
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You guys act like Koei cannot make everyone have their own unique move sets. They did it in DW5, with slight differences. They could do it if they really wanted to, but they're just choosing not to. And no, it wouldn't look silly. Everyone would feel unique in their own way because they'd have their OWN distinct play style.
Edited by TrevorxTravesty, Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:58 pm.
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Yang Xiu
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Court Jester of Wei
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It is my belief that no one thought this was fine until it happened. People would have been screaming 'clones' if it was a rumor that had come up. Similar to how everyone hated Lady Boobs as a rumor but since it came true, now this fan-following for a character that no one ever heard of all of a sudden sprang up. Its like whatever KOEI decided was what everyone secretly wanted. Weird how that works, right?
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
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The whole moveset thing is still sketchy. I need gameplay videos more than anything. But I'm sure koei that if it happens, severel issues will harm the game. It looks great and all but we're this close and we are sitll in teh dark for so many things.

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ZhaoThun
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First Lieutenant
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TrevorxTravesty
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:57 pm
You guys act like Koei cannot make everyone have their own unique move sets. They did it in DW5, with slight differences. They could do it if they really wanted to, but they're just choosing not to. And no, it wouldn't look silly. Everyone would feel unique in their own way because they'd have their OWN distinct play style.
yes they could do it and for that i am sure of it
but i think the best is to see some gameplay more and then see what is happening with the movesets
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silvertongue
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Fantaji
Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:58 pm
I must be the only one not to be disturbed that the characters can only have an EX attack and Musou attacks different from each other.
Count me in that one. Doesn't bother me either!
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Shadowclaimer
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General who Pacifies the Fools
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Cao Cao
Sun Jian
Sun Quan
Xiahou Dun
Sima Zhao

Are your Sword users, there are 5 of them yes, but in previous games you had Yuan Shao, Cao Cao, Sun Quan, Sun Jian, Liu Bei all using almost identical movesets (You can't really call those unique, they swapped up like little bits here and there but not enough to call them unique)

Then there's the Zhao Yun debate.

Look at it this way, look at C1-C5 in DW5 for Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, and Jiang Wei, the differences were pretty minor across those three. Their base Charge was unique per character, but across the board only C3 and C5 tend to vary to any noticeable degree and even then they still do the same hitbox and effect almost. (save for Ma Chao's super knockback forward C3)

http://koei.wikia.com/wiki/Zhao_Yun#Moveset
http://koei.wikia.com/wiki/Ma_Chao#Moveset
http://koei.wikia.com/wiki/Jiang_Wei#Moveset

I'm not saying they can't do the same here, but as was said, unless they make them each have a unique weapon is there really a point? Why add a unique weapon that only has a different C3 and C5 from the others and do all the artwork and such, when you can just cut your losses, combine them into one superior moveset and release it for all of them and spend your time on other newer weapons and characters?

I think people suffer from nostalgia like I do too much, they think things were better because they were older and we went through the crap content removal period known as DW6 that left us yearning for the old.
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MĀJĒD
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Quote:
 

40 different weapons. And each of them has 2 different musou-attacks. That means at least 80 different musous.
And not to mention, the EX-attacks for every weapon.
Do you really think, you will remember all of them?


Actually over 120 mousu attacks

2 for each character
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Fūma
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The Dragon Has Returned
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TrevorxTravesty
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:57 pm
You guys act like Koei cannot make everyone have their own unique move sets. They did it in DW5, with slight differences. They could do it if they really wanted to, but they're just choosing not to. And no, it wouldn't look silly. Everyone would feel unique in their own way because they'd have their OWN distinct play style.
But the thing is, there are way more characters here than in DW5. And besides, it takes A LOT of time to animate so many movesets. DW5 just slightly expanded over the previous DWs (2,3 and 4) movesets, so it was an easy job.

But now, DW7 once again revamps the movesets like DW6 did, which is good, since the game would become very boring if all movesets were recycled again.
Edited by Fūma, Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:03 pm.
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Benzod
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All Tai'd Up
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TrevorxTravesty
Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:57 pm
You guys act like Koei cannot make everyone have their own unique move sets. They did it in DW5, with slight differences. They could do it if they really wanted to, but they're just choosing not to. And no, it wouldn't look silly. Everyone would feel unique in their own way because they'd have their OWN distinct play style.
They could. But they don't need to. The whole weapon-bank system in this game is a good idea in my opinion. It would be better if tere was even more variety, but it still works fine.

The point you make about everyone feeling distinct can still work, giving different characters different combinations of weapons also adds a bit of variety and difference.
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ZhaoThun
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First Lieutenant
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ok i finaly found it watch this and it will clear the charge attack thing we where discusing before watch this

this might sound to well to you trevorx it has sublities of what it says and you can see at a point it says "there will not be Cloned Characters in this at the worst some characters movesets are similar but they are NOT the same" i think this is the only prouf we have until now.
Edited by ZhaoThun, Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:13 pm.
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kaiosuke37
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no, I don't think we should accept that. Trevor is absolutely right, there should be no problems with the sword users having unique charges. I can guarantee you all those sword users arern't going to be the same. Not everyone that has a sword have a dao.

I would say that we need a MOD to confirm whether or not we're having clones, but Seraphil already said there wasn't.
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
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Again this is getting fairly riduclious. This thread might have be closed down.

I would like a little more diveristy among the movesets. But if its two musous and an ex attaack is all we're getting I'm fine with that. Better than lotr conquest.( I really should stop ranting about that game.)
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Beards
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Emperor's Retainer
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Scans! I'm late but I still will put my opinions on the revealed characters here:

Cao Pi: Not too shabby, but I prefer him in blue or purple. Not the prince in a white outfit. Dual Swords are back... or is it? *Glares at Liu Bei and Lu Xun*

Xu Zhu: He seems larger than ever. Nice round belly, but couldn't see if he retained that super Xu Zhu cape.

Sun Jian: I was hoping for him to retain his DW6 appearance. Badass Sun Jian is still greatly badass.

Guan Yu & Zhang Fei: Seen and expected.

Guan Ping: Back to his DW5, only more green and neat.

Guan Suo: Demand interaction with Zhang He. If the description is true, then accidental male attraction will be hilarious when in contact with our beauty queer queen. Other than that... Not a fan to his add.
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ThreeKingdomsWarrior
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Legend
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majed12345
Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:02 pm
Quote:
 

40 different weapons. And each of them has 2 different musou-attacks. That means at least 80 different musous.
And not to mention, the EX-attacks for every weapon.
Do you really think, you will remember all of them?


Actually over 120 mousu attacks

2 for each character
Yeah, i was not really sure about that numbers. But even then.
I just heard/read somewhere here in this thread, that the musous and EX-attacks are depending on the weapon-types.
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
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About the musous attacks its two per character. One is the weapon based depending on the weapon. The other is a special musou dependent on the character and can be done in either air or ground I believe if memory serves right.
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Lord Yuan Shu
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General
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Remember about the EX attacks folks...they are only for the character's main weapon of choice. If you go into battle with two weapons that aren't their main, you can't use an EX attack (to my knowledge this is how it works). This is why you are advised to always pick the main weapon as one of your two choices.
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Shadowclaimer
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General who Pacifies the Fools
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Quote:
 
The only "Clones" are characters who use the same weapon, and even then the animations are different (the moves are the same), musous are different, Ex attacks, skill trees, and elements are different.

That's enough I think to disqualify them as complete clones. To go and say they didn't show Sima Yi because he's a Zhuge Dan clone is a bit crude of an assumption as well.

Out of the entire list that breaks down to: (for "clones")
Zhuge Liang, Sima Yi, and Zhuge Dan (Strategist Fan)
Wang Yuanji and Zhu Rong (Throwing Daggers)
Xiahou Dun, Cao Cao, Sun Quan, Sun Jian, and Sima Zhao (Sword)
Sima Shi, Liu Shan, and Yuan Shao (Rapier)
Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, and Jiang Wei (Spear)
Zhang Fei and Wei Yan (Double-Spear)
Liu Bei, Cao Pi, and Lu Xun (Dual Swords)
Lu Meng and Guan Yu (Pike)
Ling Tong and Guan Suo (Nunchaku)
Xiahou Ba and Guan Ping (Greatsword)
Dong Zhuo and Cao Ren (Flail)
Ding Feng and Meng Huo (Gauntlets)
Yue Ying and Zhou Yu (Bo Staff)
Xiao Qiao and Da Qiao (Iron Fans)
Xiahou Yuan and Huang Zhong (Bow)
Xu Zhu (and safe to assume, Huang Gai) (Club)

Unique Movesets:
Xing Cai (Sword & Shield)
Zhou Tai (Cutlass)
Zhong Hui (Floating Swords)
Lu Bu (Halberd)
Deng Ai (Lance)
Zhang Liao (Dual Halberds)
Taishi Ci (Dual Rods)
Dian Wei (Axe)
Sun Ce (Tonfa)
Sun Shang Xiang (Wheels)
Zhang He (Claws)
Jia Xu (Chain & Sickle)
Bao Sanniang (Bladed Yo-Yo)
Lian Shi (Crossbow)
Guo Huai (Arm Cannon)
Ma Dai (Magic Brush)
Zhen Ji (Flute)
Cai Wenji (Harp)

Speculated Clones/Uniques)
Pang Tong (Staff, would make him clone with Zhang Jiao)
Huang Gai (Club most likely)
Diao Chan (Probably unique with either Whip or Dual Maces)
Xu Huang (Either shares Halberd with Lu Bu or Chain with Jia Xu)
Gan Ning (Either unique or Cutlass)

Now, look at this list. I understand that's a **** ton of clones, like you can measure that in metric **** tons. But look at this:

With this weapon system there are 1190 weapon combinations (With only announced weapons so far) for each character. That's not counting EX's.

Counting characters there are 73790 combinations you can possibly do for this game using only characters and weapons. I could cut this number down by calculating how many of those would be "truly" unique (aka not counting musous, calculating EX's) but the math escapes me right now.

I'm just saying calling them clones is a bit pessimistic when you have this many options available to you. They are finally giving DW fans the creative freedom and level of strategy (What will you bring to battle?) many have wanted for so long, instead of screaming "omg more clones" you now have more unique characters than you had total characters in previous installments, and you sure as hell have more non-clones than you had in DW6.

I should note I'm also not doing this to be hostile but just to state some facts that people (not you specifically) like to ignore. I'm not happy with cloned movesets personally, but if it fills out the roster a lot more and doesn't take away from other content, then I'll sit by and take it for now (until they say "NO CHARACTER DLC!", then I'll jump on the clone hating bandwagon.


I posted this in another thread, I need to do more math for it when I get home to get the true number of some of it.
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Shadowclaimer
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Lord Yuan Shu
Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:13 pm
Remember about the EX attacks folks...they are only for the character's main weapon of choice. If you go into battle with two weapons that aren't their main, you can't use an EX attack (to my knowledge this is how it works). This is why you are advised to always pick the main weapon as one of your two choices.
Correct, the EX attack only works with the EX weapon if you have it out.

IE: Zhao Yun's unblockable flapjack slam at the end of his C2 combo string is his EX with a spear. If he swaps to any other weapon (even if his spear is in his secondary slot) he can't use it unless he has the spear out at the time.
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MĀJĒD
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ThreeKingdomsWarrior
Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:10 pm
majed12345
Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:02 pm
Quote:
 

40 different weapons. And each of them has 2 different musou-attacks. That means at least 80 different musous.
And not to mention, the EX-attacks for every weapon.
Do you really think, you will remember all of them?


Actually over 120 mousu attacks

2 for each character
Yeah, i was not really sure about that numbers. But even then.
I just heard/read somewhere here in this thread, that the musous and EX-attacks are depending on the weapon-types.
No it's depend on the character
Quote:
 

Each characters will have unique attacks, called EX Attack. This attack can only be activated with the character's main weapon which will have a red EX mark on it


Quote:
 
Each characters will have 2 different kind of Musou attacks

Quote:
 

When using Musou attack, the character will be using their default weapon regardless of what weapons they are bringing
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M.O.G.
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Michael on my right, and Raziel on my left
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Themis95
Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:05 pm
ok i finaly found it watch this and it will clear the charge attack thing we where discusing before watch this

this might sound to well to you trevorx it has sublities of what it says and you can see at a point it says "there will not be Cloned Characters in this at the worst some characters movesets are similar but they are NOT the same" i think this is the only prouf we have until now.
This is exactly what I said. While it's only one of like three videos the point still stands. I highly doubt there will be clones on the same level as DW6 if any at all. Once again the only absolutely identical attack I saw out of this video was the weapon switch attack from a dao to the arm cannon, which I'm assuming will be the same for all dao users. Thanks for this bud.
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