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| Most Wanted Additions: Day Two, Wei | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:23 am (6,033 Views) | |
| jsully16 | Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:23 am Post #1 |
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Tiger General
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With the Shu argument boiling down to repititive debates, I've decided to open up Wei's future to discussion. This one I feel will be much harder than Shu, who had a few great heroes but not as much talent after that. Wei is stacked. If you don't know them, I'll give a basic description: Cao Hong - Cao Cao's cousin. Trusted officer for much of early/mid Wei. Cao Zhang - Third son of Cao Cao. A fine warrior. Cao Zhi - Third son of Cao Cao (different wife than with Cao Zhang). A revered poet. Cheng Yu - One of Cao Cao's most trusted advisors. Guo Jia - Possibly Cao Cao's finest advisor, always seemed to know exactly what Mengde was thinking and how to lead him to victory or dissuade him from defeat. Would be a sure add, but only served Wei up to Guan Du. He did advise Cao Cao to defeating Yuan Shao's sons after he died, though. Impressive. Li Dian - Trusted Wei officer. Long career with Wei with many victories. Also an able tactician. Man Chong - I like to think of him as Wei's watered down Zhou Yu, able strategist and commander, in charge of the defense of He Fei Castle. Xun Yu - One of Cao Cao's most trusted advisors, along with Cheng Yu. Xun You - Cousin of Xun Yu (confusing right?) and advisor to Cao Cao. Yu Jin - Fine warrior and general gifted golden armor from Mengde himself for his bravery and honor. Yue Jin - One of the long tenured generals of Wei. Zhang Xiu - Son of Zhang Ji, one of Dong Zhuo's servants, he led Cao Cao into a trap at Wan Castle, nearly killing him. Joined up with Liu Biao and continued to be a thorn in Cao Cao's side but before the battle of Guan Du, Cao Cao annexed him into Wei where he served as a commander. Also note there are many later Wei generals I could include (Chen Tai) but I'll hold them off for Jin. |
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| Tazzikaze | Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:19 am Post #2 |
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Han's Unifier
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I voted for Yu Jin Cao Hong there is alot you can do for Yu Jin many ways you can portray him Edited by Tazzikaze, Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:23 pm.
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| SRS | Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:27 am Post #3 |
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Master of the War Trident
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Cao Hong Cheng Yu Other Cao Hong due to being the right to Cao Ren's left, and for being a hothead with his own share of blunders at the same time as having a bunch of accomplishments, including saving Cao Cao's ass twice personally. Was also stingy and on poor terms with Cao Pi. Cheng Yu for being a perfect example of a an actually dark and evil person in Wei, yet loyal to Cao Cao. His tactics were ruthless, and he butchered his own hometown in order to provide food for Cao Cao's army. Also foresaw the fire attack at Chi Bi but was unheeded by Cao Cao. Was also unusually tall. For other, I pick Lady Bian, (one of) Cao Cao's wife. Treated Cao Cao's children not borne of her as her own. Someone else can probably list out her merits better than I. |
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| Celestial | Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:36 am Post #4 |
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Love,hate, tragedy, and war.
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Cao Zhi Cao Hong Other Other- Empress Bian- Saved Cao Hong's life from Cao Pi by reminding him of what he had done for Wei. When Yuan Shu spreaded false rumors of Cao Cao's death. Lady Bian convinced his forces other wise. Also she is the mother of Cao Pi and Zhi. Had a good relationship with Zhen Ji as well. Edit: Also helped save Cao Zhi from Cao Pi. Edited by Celestial, Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:56 am.
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| Uncle Vlad | Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:45 am Post #5 |
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Avid F1, Dynasty Warriors and Example fan
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I voted for Cao Hong, Li Dian and Zhang Xiu... |
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| WhiteHorseRide | Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:04 am Post #6 |
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Right General
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Cao Zhang is by far the best warrior on that list, and I will always have a bias towards excellent warrior archetypes as new adds vs any other types. Always will. Dian Wei's physical prowess + short yellow beard + good military leadership qualities, and you have Cao Zhang right there. Unfortunately, there are very few excellent warriors left to add as playable characters, its also fortunate because it means Cao Zhang's chances increase by a lot due in great part to his probable position as Cao Cao's favorite and most bad ass son. Edited by WhiteHorseRide, Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:07 pm.
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| jsully16 | Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:31 am Post #7 |
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Tiger General
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By the way, I should state that my votes were Li Dian, Man Chong, and Yu Jin. I believe the most could be done with these guys. |
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| WarHawk | Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:08 am Post #8 |
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Where did bandana go?
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Chose Li Dian, Yu Jin and Cao Hong, but I like almost all this variants including Zang Ba (not sure that he would be great addition ), Bian and Wende.
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| Skode | Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:24 am Post #9 |
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King of KW
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Xun Yu - there is some very clear bias towards Guo Jia but Wei need an early days genuis for Cao Cao and his rise to power and he was just as trusted as the former was... he gave so much advice which was acted upon by Mengde and would add a sad and contraversal death if scripted right by KOEI. Yu Jin - whats not to love... great commander, wins the outright trust of Cao Cao through brave and decisive actions whatever the odds but all that is largely fogetten after a poor final last few months unravel everything he did in all the years beforehand, not only interesting in himself but would add more depth to the likes of Pang De who would blossom storywise if his and Yu Jins deaths were scripted properly. Chen Gong - yeah, i would add him purely because he is pivitol in adding the full lowdown of what an ruthless and paranoid ass Cao Cao was in rise rise to power where before all that he made so many enemies and had to flee with Gongs help from Dong Zhuo. He would be an essential add to Lu Bu more than anything but as we dont have an "others" kingdom mode i would at least have him under the banner of Wei in the early days before moving on to better pastures after Cao Cao murders the innocent family in his parnoid delusions. |
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| TrueChaos | Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:24 am Post #10 |
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Just Keep Slashing
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Chose Cheng Yu because i feel he could fill the gap of Sima Yi's departure somewhat seeing as he is evil oh and I like him. Would have liked to have seen Guo Nuwang or Cao Rui on the poll too but oh well |
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| jsully16 | Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:01 pm Post #11 |
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Tiger General
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Chen Gong isn't Wei, though. I was going to add him as an option for Others. If you vote other here, make sure they serve the kingdom, otherwise it messes up the poll. |
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| Skode | Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:13 pm Post #12 |
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King of KW
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I know he isnt Wei... i decided on him though because i actually did not realise you were going to do a poll for "others". Dont worry i have not messed up your poll... the third official poll vote was for Cheng Yu purely to add weight to the need for a non-Guo Jia early era advisor for Cao Cao. Besides when you get to Jin you do realise there will be a lot of "hes not Jin" type votes haha - i mean look at the Jin confirmed official roster so far never mind our own opinions. |
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| kaiosuke37 | Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:20 pm Post #13 |
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Sun Chen
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Cao Rui - Wei is need of a later emporer and Rui seems to be a fitting choice. (Other) Guo Jia - i see alot of talking about him, so it would be interesting to see what Koei would do with him considering Xiahou Dun talking his place in the DW games. Man Chong - I chose him solely because he was an late era strategist, nothing more. |
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| Daikyō | Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:29 pm Post #14 |
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I'm ready to serve you all
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I choose other, which is Guo Nuwang, adding her to the faction will create a new twist between Zhen and Cao Pi, we will see Cao Pi's Evil side to Zhen, Rivalry between Zhen and Guo, and perhaps with Guo on the rooster we will not see "i'll follow you my husband" happen to Zhen anymore..
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| SilverZhongda | Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:31 pm Post #15 |
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Elite Soldier
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1. Cheng Yu Basically Kanbei Kuroda SW3 in Dynasty Warriors. Ruthless and manipulative at tactics, too bad sometimes Cao Cao didn't listen to this guy's advice mostly. This guy is the one that copying Xu Shu's mom handwriting to trick Xu Shu. Spoiler: click to toggle 2. Cao Hong I always wondered why this guy hasn't added yet in previous installment. 3. Other Guo Nuwang lol. Zhen Ji and Guo Nuwang rivalry, that's all. Edited by SilverZhongda, Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:42 pm.
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| Xiyng | Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:32 pm Post #16 |
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First Lieutenant
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- I've wanted to see Guo Jia as long as I've known about him. His life was short and I'm sure he wouldn't get too many battles but still, he would be my first pick. - Xun Yu definitely deserves to be in the game. The thing is, with these choices Wei would have quite a few strategists: Jia Xu, Guo Jia, Xun Yu (and to some extent, Sima Yi). It's probably a bit too much. Still, IMO he deserves it. - I was about to forget but for some reason, I've always liked Cao Rui. Besides, he seems to be the last somewhat-competent Wei emperor. At first I wasn't planning to go for Cao Rui but after seeing a few more posts, I abandoned my original third choice: Yu Jin. I'm sure he would make a decent character, maybe even a good one. I don't think I need to say much more about him. I also considered Cao Hong for reasons that in my mind seem pretty similar to Yu Jin's. |
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| Beards | Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:46 pm Post #17 |
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Emperor's Retainer
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So, so, so difficult! Wei has so many able and great officers to add, I really don't know which should be or not be included... But, not counting DW7 and looking in the farther future (DW8 and beyond), I would say these three: Yue Jin Yu Jin Cao Rui You can see that my 3 picks are those who have been picked out by most people. The first two are logical, if Shu has their 5 tiger generals, then Wei must get their 5 generals completed aswell. It gives Fan Castle another Wei guy to play and it gives Zhang Liao another ally in He Fei. The last one was difficult. I'd love to see the magnificent Cao Zhang, the clever Guo Jia or the ever so helpful Cao Hong. But if I look at the future where KOEI should go, IMO, Cao Rui would be a better choice. Eventhough he also died when the Sima did the coup, atleast he would make a much better choice to give a bit of a lifespan than Cao Pi. |
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| Reverie | Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:13 pm Post #18 |
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Realist
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My four amigos, Li Dian, Yu Jin, Cao Hong, and Cao Zheng. My question is do these four cover old,present, and new moments within Wei, cause I chose them due to popularity and seeing them in almost every battle fighting against Wei and With, can someone help a brother out though, I don't know that much about Wei. |
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| Dongzhou | Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:28 pm Post #19 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Voted Yu Jin, Li Dian and Other: Lady Bian, wife of Cao Cao. Or Xin Xianying, the Wei/Jin female strategist. Cao Hong: Fairly solid but not a particularly fan, don't think he stands out as a character. Of the Cao's, my pick would be the flamboyant commander Cao Rui or bodyguard turned skilled general Cao Xiu. Maybe Cao Zhen for a rivalry with Sima Yi. Cao Zhang: Blond beard might be nice but his career is short and I don't think he particularly adds anything Cao Zhi: His tale is a sad one, in many ways he could be a good DW and I admire Xu Yuan's idea about Cao Zhi in another thread. None the less I don't think he offers so much that I'm willing to overlook the lack of battles. If koei wants to do a poet, it has several in it's Wei cast already to play with. Cheng Yu: The effective retirement he took from Chi Bi onwards means he missed a huge chunk of time, don't think he adds much despite an intresting personality. Guo Jia: Got nothing particularly against him, indeed his closeness to Cao Cao, his early death avoiding clashes with the other advisers and how well they did him in DT2 are points in his favour. Doesn't particularly excite me. Li Dian: To quote myself A solid and unspectacular choice, would be fine with him and provide an intellectual side but wouldn't be particularly fussed. Man Chong: Again, to quote myself Never been a particular fan of his for DW, maybe I just don't know enough about his work against Wu. Xun Yu: One of the great men of the era and one of my favourite characters, I would love him as a SPNC if koei ever did court matters in cutscenes. However it would need for bigger Han focus and as a PC, he was mostly at home looking after the domestic affairs so lacks battles and moments. Not a DW. Xun You: Doesn't really stand out for me but willing to be persuaded that he would be a good add. Yu Jin: One of the great Wei generals of his time, he has personality, relations, battles, events. The only reason I would be wary is the same reason I suspect koei haven't done him: The flood. His surrender tarnished his name, saw him slandered by the novel but also undermines the DW ethos. If they avoid the surrender, they also miss one of the key moments of his life but how they do they handle it? Yue Jin: Only if koei is feeling completest. Zhang Xiu: Underatted, everyone credits all Cao Cao's defeats to Jia Xu rather then respected Zhang Xiu's considerable abilities as a general. Lacks personality and relations, also underminned by lack of "other" kingdom mode. |
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| Yang Xiu | Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:32 pm Post #20 |
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Court Jester of Wei
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Li Dian, Yu Jin, and Man Chong. Li Dian and Yu Jin are great, and Man Chong has so much potential... I think Cao Xiu, Cao Rui, Cai Mao, Cao Zhen, and Wen Pin also deserve a little bit of consideration.. as far as female characters go, I think Cao Qinghe could be a decent add. I don't understand the Cao Zhi love... he wrote poems. A questionable rumor about Zhen Ji. I don't see where a great character lies in this. |
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| Deleted User | Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:01 pm Post #21 |
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Deleted User
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Guo Jia: He did not live long, certainly. But, it's still a character I'd like to see added to the series. Guo Jia and Jia Xu are two strategists that I wanted to see added to the series. Jia Xu was obtained in Dynasty Warriors 7, which is a very good choice. I now hope Guo Jia for Dynasty Warriors 8. Li Dian and Yu Jin: I think they will make excellent additions as warriors characters, simply. |
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| Hero of Chaos | Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:13 pm Post #22 |
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魏王
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My votes: Guo Jia: He is so popular and overrated that KOEI could make a great story with him. His life was short and he would need a fictional musou mode (considering that KOEI goes back to individual musou modes),but especially Cao Cao's words after the defeat of Chi Bi could make Guo Jia turn the tables at Chi Bi in his own story. Yu Jin: A great character,Dongzhou pretty much said everything. Though I too wonder how they'd implement his surrender at Fan. Cao Hong: Veteran general who has battles,events,relations (especially Cao Pi in his later life),but probably lacks personality. Xiahou Dun is already the hotheaded general in Wei. These are pretty much the characters I'd like to see in DW8. But Li Dian,Man Chong or Cao Xiu also have a great potential. |
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| Xiahou_Chuck | Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:32 pm Post #23 |
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Bishop of Evil
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Guo Jia. He didn't get a great innings but he advised Cao Cao in the whole fight against Lu Bu and the like. His death is often rembarked at being a reason why Cao Cao lost Red Cliff. If I remember correctly. If Wei lose Sima Yi as a strategist, then this could be a solution. Also in Dynasty Tactics 2 he was my number one Wei character. |
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| Xiuzhao | Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:35 pm Post #24 |
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No Cao Xiu? Xun Yu His role as Han loyalist under Cao Cao may have been taken by Jia Xu, although that doesn't seem to be the case reading Jia Xu's page on the EU site. They would need different personalities to make him as good as he can be. Originally served the Han (he could probably be plugged in at the Yellow Turban stage as he was 22 years old at the time), then briefly served Yuan Shao right before he left for Cao Cao in 191. He stays with Cao Cao for another 21 years until his death at the age of 50 in 212. Can be present at YTR, Si Shui Gate, Hu Lao Gate, Xia Pi, Guan Du, Chang Ban, Chi Bi, escape from Chi Bi, maybe Tong Gate, and any other Wei battles before He Fei (probably not Wan Castle though). His story would revolve around his his friendship with Cao Cao and his overriding loyalty to the Han, which in time causes bitterness between the two as Cao Cao starts taking titles for himself and moves away from his original motive which was to uphold the Han. He doesn't really have any defined relationships with any playable characters except for Cao Cao and Yuan Shao; although he did defend Cao Cao's land against Lu Bu alongside Xiahou Dun when Cao was attacking Tao Qian, Koei could make something out of that, as well as something between him and Jia Xu. Yu Jin Serves Cao Cao from the Dong Zhuo era to Fan Castle. He was very strict, and as such, made few friends due to sticking the the exact letter of the law. He was highly respected, however, and was one of the 5 tigers. He was quite close with Cao Cao, and presumably the other 5 tigers. Offers a nice foil to Pang De at Fan Castle. Surrendered to Guan Yu at Fan Castle when his situation became untenable, while Pang De refused to surrender and was killed. When Cao Cao was told of this he commented on his disappointment and claimed Yu Jin was unequal to Pang De. Yu Jin then surrendered to Wu when Fan Castle was over, and when Cao Pi took over Yu Jin was sent back to Wei. Now for his ending video: Back in Wei Cao Pi gave an audience to Yu Jin, whose hair had turned white and he looked very exhausted. When he saw Cao Pi he collapsed and wept. Cao Pi consoled and pardoned Yu Jin, saying the defeat was not his fault. He then sent Yu Jin to pay his respects at Cao Cao's tomb. Cao Pi had earlier sent workmen to paint on the walls of the tomb showing the victory of Guan Yu with Pang De in anger and Yu Jin surrendering. When Yu Jin saw the drawing, he felt extremely shameful, then fell sick and died. Now Koei don't have to show his death, only him at the tomb as he looks upon the images of the defeat at Fan Castle. I know I've gone on for too long, and I doubt anyone is reading this far, but if they do this scene right it could be incredibly powerful. Other (Cao Xiu) Also served his cousin Cao Cao from the Dong Zhuo era, but lived to 228. Before he entered service with Cao Cao he carried his dead father's coffin by himself to be buried, and was said to be the stallion of the Cao clan, so I imagine he would be portrayed as physically very strong, yet he was also praised for his filial piety. Cao Cao had him share quarters with Cao Pi and treated him as his own son; Cao Xiu was extremely close with Cao Pi who cherished him like a brother, particularly when Pi was emperor. He would accompany Cao Cao in battles and was made the captain of the Tiger and Panther Cavalry unit, Cao Cao’s personal guard. Very much like Xu Zhu, although his role as bodyguard hasn't been fully utilised. Performed well at Han Zhong, but was mainly a commander against Wu; and a successful one at that, until he was tricked by Zhou Fang at Shi Ting and in 228 forced to retreat. Cao Pi sent people to console him with gifts, but he developed an ulcer on his back and died from it. I really hope Koei don't include the ulcer in his personality any more than his final cutscene; as I can just imagine them making him the Hunchback of Notre-Dame. I picture his design as a cross between Zhao Yun and Sima Zhao. Wow, that post was not supposed to be that long. I got a little carried away. |
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| GuardianAlexio | Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:50 pm Post #25 |
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The Epitome of Excellence
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Choosing for Wei is kind of a challenge, because there are so many good choices. You could make an argument for almost everyone to be in future games. My votes I suppose focus on what my top priorities would be for DW8. Yu Jin - Easily my top choice. Long, loyal, and successful career ended by a tragic fall from grace gives him tremendous story potential. Hopefully Koei could at least give him some sympathy and from his point of view he surrenders at Fan in the face of a no win scenario to save the lives of his men instead of wasting them in a hopeless fight. His addition could also get us one step closer to Wei's 5 Generals. Li Dian - While it may not be the best comparison, someone else said that Man Chong could be like Zhou Yu, well then I can see Li Dian as the Lu Meng of Wei. During the early battles with Yuan Shu & Lu Bu he could be more like a soldier, fighting really his only quality. However say by Guan Du, he begins to see the use of tactics and intelligence on the battlefield, maybe even using Cao Cao as his inspiring figure. Then you could begin to see his forming into the scholar general, aiding Xiahou Dun and Cao Ren eventually leading to his time at He Fei. There's enough there to make him a great character in my eyes. Other - Lady Bian - Wei could still use a female and really I think she could be an interesting character. Despite being another Wife, she could at least give insight to a pretty deep character like Cao Cao. Beyond that she could also have an impact on the heir issue and play a role in Cao Pi's story. Maybe I'm trying to be too logical, but even if I would take a couple of other characters over her, she's still my top female choice for Wei. |
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