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Poll Only
Most Wanted Additions: Day Two, Wei
Topic Started: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:23 am (6,036 Views)
Bamboo
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*hail hydra*
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I voted for Yu Jin, Xun Yu, and Other for Cao Xiu. Gonna pull off a Dongzhou --

Cao Hong - I can see why he's so popular, with all his battles and all, but he doesn't have much to offer from that. Surprisingly arrogant (or overconfident, for that matter) and considered young by the other Cao kinsmen, stingy with money, and that's it. Not the most exciting personality, but he does get some points for the in-fighting with Cao Pi. Despite his living up to 232, his battles stop when Cao Pi ascends the throne in 220. If KOEI adds him, I don't expect much beyond a slightly-toned down Xiahou Dun. Wouldn't mind the add, but there are better.

Cao Zhang - ehh. Cool beard, slays a great Shu warrior in either Lei Tong or Wu Lan if I remember correctly.

Cao Zhi - it'd be funny to see some kind of artwork, where he, Cao Pi, Cao Cao, and Cai Yan are all hard-at-work with poetry, with a lonely Ding Feng looking on. I'm a fan of the succession war with his other brothers, but I think it can be done well enough with just Cao Pi. Wouldn't add him unless there was a Wei-centric game, focusing only on that kingdom.

Cheng Yu - last week or so I learned about him. Wouldn't mind the add, another villainous-but-loyal adviser a la Li Ru, but I think the games still need getting past making Wei look like evil bastards. Instead, let's flesh out the negative qualities in the choir of angels, Shu. The lack of battles hurt him some, but otherwise he would be one of the advisers I'd have. Wish I knew more about Liu Ye, Man Chong, Chen Qun, Xun You, and Xin Pi.

Guo Jia - personally I think he's a bit overrated, especially because of Cao Cao's quote at Chibi. His inclusion in Dynasty Tactics 2 impresses, although there's a better choice in Cao Cao's BFF in Xun Yu.

Li Dian - good to balance out the rather hardheaded Wei roster. Doesn't have many events, is unspectacular, I'd rather have Cao Xiu for the next kind man addition.

Man Chong - the only thing I fear is that he'll be added to Jin. :XD But, from what little I know, he should be the next solid adviser. On other forums he's been described as a charismatic leader, so that could be interesting.

Xun You - as I understand, he was more military-based than Xun Yu? Again, wish I knew more about him but I suppose he's not terrible.

Yue Jin - least favorite of the Five. Easy to design -- the small-but-stout general which Cao Ren doesn't seem to occupy anymore, has a few battles, umm... I think that's it? His shining moment is Hefei, but I'd rather have it shared between Zhang Liao and Li Dian. Wouldn't add, and not a fan of the argument "I want Yue Jin to complete the Wei Five".

Zhang Xiu - hmm, would give Jia Xu a friend, Dong Zhuo another vassal, adds another dimension to the concept of China being split apart into many warlords. Would like to see more relationships, a better personality but wouldn't mind him. I've heard he was also a great warrior, too?



Xun Yu - my favorite of all the strategists. Highly trusted, highly skilled, stays true to his lord until the time comes where the favor Cao Cao is bestowed conflicts with Xun Yu's loyalty to the Han. Thus, his life would offer a contradiction with itself, considering he was a Han man serving a Wei ruler. Like Dongzhou said, he does lack battles . Offers humility with a lack thereof in this force, I'd definitely have him in a Wei-centric game. Tragic deaths, anyone?

Yu Jin - Wenze! My favorite from the Wei Five. That's saying something, with the five including the likes of Zhang Liao, Xu Huang, and Zhang He. Seeing the underutilized Xu Chu, he'd be the most reliable non-Cao general, has the near thirty-year career, the personality in being strict, well-liked by his lord, frugal, would tearfully execute his own friend if he disobeyed the law. Offers a nice character study next to Pang De, whom in the novel Yu Jin out of fear of being outdone stopped from almost killing Guan Yu. Like in Liu Shan's case, here is a chance to redeem his historical counterpart. What isn't there to like about him?

Not sure and would need confirmation, but wouldn't him repelling Zhang Xiu and guarding Cao Cao's rear during Wan count him as yet another savior of Cao's?

Wrote this about him back in July, be aware as it does mix novel and history:

Spoiler: click to toggle


Cao Xiu - my top add. Born in what was the Wu kingdom, described as the "stallion" of the clan, after personally burying his father with one servant, he joins his uncle, Cao Cao, during the time when the allied forces are raising an army to combat Dong Zhuo. To join with his clan, he sneaks up through Jing and is treated favorably, even sharing Cao Pi's quarters with the heir. Also advances to become a fellow bodyguard like Xu Chu and Dian Wei in the Tiger and Panther Cavalry, which is what as I understand, the very elite fighters.

During the Hanzhong campaign decades later, Cao Xiu is sent to advise Cao Hong (yes, him) when the latter is sent to combat Wu Lan's army. Because of the trust held between Cao Cao and Xiu, along with a few choice words, Cao Hong delegated all matters to him. With his advice, the likes of Wu Lan and Zhang Fei are defeated. As reward he then becomes the commander of the imperial guard.

Soon, after the downfall of Guan Yu, much of the important old guard dies off, including Cao Cao and Xiahou Dun. Cao Pi, whom once again grew up with him, had Cao Xiu become the commander of the matters concerning the south and Wu, the place where Xiu was born. With his new rank, he was now in charge of the officers stationed there, including the famed defender Zhang Liao, Sima Yi, and Xu Huang (?). Cao Xiu would make due use of his tactical skills and defeated the likes of Lu Fan, the long-time officer of Wu, main adviser to Sun Ce some twenty years back, and one of my favorites, along with other Wu generals. In the future Cao Xiu would also score other great victories.

Along with Sima Yi, Cao Xiu was to advance in what was known as the battle of Shiting, where due to the enemy's trick he was dealt a harsh defeat, and eventually died from it. However, before the end of his life, he would be promoted to the highest military rank in the kingdom, Commander-in-Chief, succeeding Cao Ren who died years before. He was also the chief commander of southern affairs, another manner in which he followed Cao Ren's footsteps. Years later, Zhuge Dan would assume the same, if not similar responsibilities.

Yet another honor Cao Xiu received was when he was first assigned to lead the southern Wei forces, Cao Pi escorted him out of the capital with full honors, accompanied by chariots. The only other similar occurances in the period I remember happens with Cao Cao and his puppet the Emperor Xian, and the powerful (and traitorous, according to DW) Sima Yi with one of the later Wei emperors. Contrasting this scene with the loyal Cao Xiu could provide a great foil.

So, as you can see, Cao Xiu = awesome.

from the link in my signature:
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by Bamboo, Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:06 pm.
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D4N
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Wu's Asset
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Li dian, gua jia and li dian.
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TrueChaos
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Just Keep Slashing
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I think Wei need more late adds personally to help try and counteract the Sima Family. Cao Shaung, Xiahou Xuan, Cao Rui (Extended Lifespan), Chen Tai, Empress Guo (Cao Rui's Wife), Guanqiu Jian, Wen Qin, and Zhuge Dan (If he moves kingdom) would all be acceptable, unfortunately none of them are that popular, probably because they all fail. It just seems that right now Sima Yi just sort of takes control of Wei and that's it. I don't like where Wei's story seems to be going to be honest.

Apart from Man Chong, Cheng Yu, Yu Jin, and Yue Jin, I Can't really see what any of those other characters have to offer the series.

Guo Jia - A Watered down Zhuge Liang
Xun Yu - A Poor Man's Guo Jia who dosen't even live long.
Xun You - Does anyone want him?
Cao Hong - Can't understand why everyone like him so much, Cao Zhen & Cao Xiu were much better when it came to military affairs and he's a pretty one dimensional character.
Cao Zhang - possibly useful but he's pretty overshadowed by the likes of Zhang Liao and Zhang He, dosen't do much after his father's death either.
Cao Zhi - Also useful but not for a very long time, apart from the whole heir thing and a possible romance with Zhen Ji he dosen't ever do anything else. Maybe he could be added when there is about 25 characters in Wei.
Li Dian - Liao Hua without the lifespan.
Zhang Xiu - Out of all the generals Of Wei he would be my last pick, he adds nothing that Jia Xu dosen't already bring.
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D4N
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Wu's Asset
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Li dian, gua jia and li dian.
Wow my iPod fails decides to take it's time to post and somehow posts twice at different times
Edited by D4N, Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:17 pm.
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Dongzhou
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Quote:
 
Xun Yu - A Poor Man's Guo Jia who dosen't even live long.


I know he is hardly Liao Hua but he lived till he committed suicide till 212, which is longer then some already in the game and some that others would have in the game.
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TrueChaos
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Yes but with Jia Xu added what can he really bring to the game that we don't already have? certainly not a longer life.
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Xiuzhao
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SunWu80
Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:29 pm
Yes but with Jia Xu added what can he really bring to the game that we don't already have? certainly not a longer life.
Bamboo and I both described his role fairly clearly.

D4N
 
Li dian, gua jia and li dian.
Wow my iPod fails decides to take it's time to post and somehow posts twice at different times
You also voted for Li Dian twice, twice. :wacko:
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TrueChaos
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Well sorry but i don't see his role as very necessary.
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Bamboo
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Okay, pretty much finished my post. Didn't post anything extensive with Xun Yu, Xiuzhao put his character pretty clearly.

After finishing my stuff on Cao Xiu, I have to say I really like him even more than I previously had. :whistle: Dongzhou was right -- "bodyguard turned skilled general".

Hate to pick at the matter even more, but describing Xun Yu as a poor man's Guo Jia? They were practically equals, and the rest of that quote "that doesn't even live long" implies that he lived shorter than Guo Jia, which isn't true. Darn me and my bias.

I like GuardianAlexio's take on Li Dian.
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Demonic Warrior
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Man Chong, Li Dian, Yu Jin. Li Dian for his He Fei conflictuous time, Yu Jin for Fan and Man Chong for Fan and late Wei. Short and simple.

I'd vote Zhang Xiu, but I'd prefer to see him in Others instead
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Xiuzhao
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SunWu80
Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:46 pm
Well sorry but i don't see his role as very necessary.
Who out of the choices for a new Wei add is really necessary?

Demonic Warrior
 
I'd vote Zhang Xiu, but I'd prefer to see him in Others instead
Same here, I nearly voted for him today.
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Demonic Warrior
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SunWu80
Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:46 pm
Well sorry but i don't see his role as very necessary.
:mellow:

Jia Xu was simply the one who achieved what Guo Jia is mostly credited for. He advised Cao Cao and Cao Pi several times, but was not heed, and they ended up losing where/when they didn't listen to Jia Xu
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Xiuzhao
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I'm pretty sure he was referring to Xun Yu there, DW.
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Demonic Warrior
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Anyway, Xun Yu could be applied almost the same. He was an important advisor to Cao Cao before his death, has relationships with Mengde, Dong Zhuo, Han and even Yuan Shao. Potentially good
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Kiheiji
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Yu Jin, for reasons Bamboo said above

Li Dian, all around good officer, was in He Fei.

Wang Yi, so we have a different kinda woman

Xiahou Mao, for the lulz
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Deleted User
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When a third woman will be added to Wei, which would be most interesting for you?

- Lady Bian.
- Guo Nüwang.
- Wang Yi.
- Xin Xianying.
- Other (specify).

It's just to know your various opinions on this. ^_^
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Liu Bei 7
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Fantaji
Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:22 pm
When a third woman will be added to Wei, which would be most interesting for you?

- Lady Bian.
- Guo Nüwang.
- Wang Yi.
- Xin Xianying.
- Other (specify).

It's just to know your various opinions on this. ^_^
Cao Jie. Even though she arguably wouldn't be "Wei", that's where I would put her.
Edited by Liu Bei 7, Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:30 pm.
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TrueChaos
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Guo Nuwang - A Love triangle would be great for the story, it would be interesting to see Zhen Ji's demise.
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Celestial
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Love,hate, tragedy, and war.
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Fantaji
Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:22 pm
When a third woman will be added to Wei, which would be most interesting for you? - Lady Bian. - Guo Nüwang. - Wang Yi. - Xin Xianying. - Other (specify). It's just to know your various opinions on this. ^_^
I've already chosen Empress Bian. For my reasons, see the first page. ^_^
Edited by Celestial, Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:41 pm.
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Xiuzhao
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Fantaji
Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:22 pm
When a third woman will be added to Wei, which would be most interesting for you?

- Lady Bian.
- Guo Nüwang.
- Wang Yi.
- Xin Xianying.
- Other (specify).

It's just to know your various opinions on this. ^_^
Probably Lady Bian, for the same reason I like Lady Wu as the next Wu female add; a loving mother figure.
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Yang Xiu
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Fantaji
Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:22 pm
When a third woman will be added to Wei, which would be most interesting for you?

- Lady Bian.
- Guo Nüwang.
- Wang Yi.
- Xin Xianying.
- Other (specify).

It's just to know your various opinions on this. ^_^
I think Xin Xianying would fit more in Jin (with the way KOEI does things, anyway).

I choose Other: Cao Qinghe. Cao Cao's daughter. I imagine her being a real b*tch, sadistic in a fight... highly energetic. She and her brother Cao Pi are competitive rivals. She would also demand around her worthless oaf of a husband (Xiahou Mao), who would be completely terrified of her.
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JayHawk
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I picked:

Cao Hong: Great warrior and loyal to Cao Cao.. Enough said.

Cao Zhang: Was the third son of Cao Cao and apparently his mother's favorite, which made Cao Pi jealous and threatened by him, in other words, he would make a good story.

Li Dian: Overall great warrior for Wei, I'm surprised he didn't get put in before.

There's also of course Yu Jin, Man Chong, and Guo Jia, though I just went with those three. No particular reason really.
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WarHawk
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Argh! written so many and deleted all with one mouse click. :facepalm:

Ok kinda make it shorten.

1) Li Dian is the best Wei addition. Agreed that he was Wei`s Lu Meng and was similar to Man Chong caz he was kinda mix of tactician and battle general, participated in many battles: Guan Du, Bo Wang Po, Chi Bi and ofcourse was awesome in He Fei. Have many interactions - with Zhang Liao (rivalry), Cao Ren (friendship), Cao Cao, Cao Pi and Xiahou Dun.

2) Yu Jin is character that should be added long time ago. Talented and skillful general with many battles and one big fault (surrendering Wu at Fan Castle) that makes him even more standout addition. (it means valued his life, don`t think he was a coward).

3) Cao Hong, just ok with him. He was not a brilliant millitaries... had long career, many battles and only one great succes in Tong Gate battle (should share it with Jia Xu and Xu Zhu), so if he would be replaced by Man Chong, Guo Jia or Cao Zhang I`m ok with that. And big pluses for him his difficult personallity and fact that he saved Cao Cao`s life.
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Cao Hong 14
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I voted for Cao Hong, Li Dian, and Yu Jin. runner ups were Cheng Yu for maybe being dw's kanbei kuroda, yue jin for filling up wei's 5, cao xiu, and cao zhen on other.
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lifeng
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I vote for Cao Zhang and Guo Jia
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