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Dynasty Warriors 7 [v5] (SPOILERS); SPOILERS BEWARE! GAMEPLAY VIDEOS/INFO INSIDE!
Topic Started: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm (735,393 Views)
zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
Yawnier
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:10 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:04 am
Yawnier
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:56 am
I wasn't even here today and I didn't watch the stream, but I read the last 15 pages of this thread so I'm just going to talk about some random topics that are being discussed or were discussed earlier.

1. I can see Pang Tong getting the Invasion of Cheng Du or probably just a part of it up until the point he dies.

2. As it appears that Wu's story is sort of half-done, I'm not that disappointed because I don't really like Wu outside of a few characters.

My biggest complaint is Ding Feng not even having a stage in Kingdom Mode. The rest of the Wu characters not having a stage (Qiao sisters, Taishi Ci, Zhou Tai), I can live with for the most part.

Additonally, I thought Taishi Ci was a popular character over at Koei? (If he was, I think he would have at least half a stage, but whatever.)

3. I heard Xiahou Ba doesn't even have a stage on Jin's side in Kingdom Mode but he has a stage on Shu's side. If this is so, why is he even classified in Jin in the first place?
In history, xiahou Ba run over to SHu to escape persecution from sima, and he fought with Jiang Wei in the novel...
I think they put him in Jin just because they needed more characters...
I'm definitely aware of that, as I read into the history and I am a fan of the novel.

However, my point is that apparently, the guy has 0 battles inside Jin's kingdom mode. That is correct, zip, none, zero. So, why in the blue is he classified as a character in Jin in the first place?

If they really needed a ninth character for Jin, they could've simply added someone like Wen Yang.
Wen Yang didn't fight for them, either...
rather, he fought against them, and is only mentioned in two battles...
at least xiahou ba appeared in a lot battles in the novel
but i do agree with you, they should've added someone else, like jia chong, du yu and yang hu
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
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Doesn't matter if Jin is a bunch of traitors. What matters is that Koei added Xiahou Ba to Jin than had him betray 3 stages in without a Jin stages for him. Instead he's more on Shu's side in the Kingdom Musou's than Jins. Doesn't that just reek of Koei disgusing Xiahou Ba as a Jin Add when he's really a Shu Add?
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wen Yang defected to Sima Zhao and was made a General and particpiated in the final part of qwelling Zhuge Dan's rebellion. After that he vanished since he wasen't stationed to deal with Shu. Hell, Du Yu and Yang Hu were extremely skilled and served a long time yet they magically appear for the final chapter despite their years of service and skill.

If you weren't a Part of Shu or messed with Shu than you were ignored and forgotten very easily in the Novel.
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ZhugeShu
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Pang De the Azul Knight
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:49 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:43 am
Did the Qiaos get a stage?
The Qiaos, Ding Feng, Lian Shi, Zhou Tai, and Taichi Ci all did not get a stage.
This little bit right here is what frustrates me the most. There were many levels they could have incorporated the "story mode-cut' characters.
For instance, the battle where Sun Ce dies (Xu Chang I believe)...Da Qiao could have easily picked up right after the split. The explanation would not have been difficult either. She is worried about her husband and decides to charge in after him.
Also, the could have had Zhou Tai in the first part of Fan Castle, I mean he does come in as a reinforcement in previous games, so why not. The people they had instead (Sun Quan for Xu Chang and Lu Xun for Fan Castle) had more than enough screen time as it is.
I felt that Koei was being simply lazy when it came to incorporating characters in the story mode.

Yes I know that everyone will have a level or two in Conquest Mode, but not including characters in story mode when they could have easily done so is VERY disappointing.

I have to admit though, Koei outdid themselves with the content of the cut-scenes. The death of the characters are, for lack of a better term, more heart-wrenching than ever before. When someone died in previous games, there seemed to be no emotional reaction from other characters. I mean when Sun Ce dies in this game, everyone, including Lian Shi, is shocked and hurt.
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Pang De the Azul Knight
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zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:11 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:09 am
Well, Jin had a lot of traitors. If Du Yu, Jia Chong, Wen Yang, and Yang Hu got in than Sima Zhao wouldn't have been hogging the spotlight so much. Though they aren't and Koei decided to fill up a Jin spot with Xiahou Ba who doesn't even get a stage and defects extremely early on.
Jin are traitors themselves, zhuge dan and xiahou ba are loyalists in a way
zhong hui is ambitious, deng ai is wrongly indicted
i really think they should add du yu, yang hu, and jia chong to the game
wen yang? not so much
Hey dude, a bit of advice on speaking here, dont ever say anything about Wen Yang not deserving a spot haha :) he is widely liked and supported to be in it by a lot of people. (Just trying to save you from being attacked :D)

On the other hand, I also think that having Xiahou Ba in only like three stages for Jin, and then having him defect to Shu without getting to play as him is pretty dumb. I hope that you can play him in shu, otherwise there will be a sad person (me) posting haha :D They just need to open the focus off of the few poster boys and let some of the others have some chances in the spotlight.
Edited by Pang De the Azul Knight, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:11 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:07 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:04 am
Sun Ce had 4 freaking stages? They couldn't have just given one of those to Taishi Ci? Throw the man a bone, dang it!
In response to your signature:
Wen Yang is overrated in the novel...If he can only fight Deng Ai to a draw, then the five tiger generals are all better than him, so does Gan Ning, Zhang LIao, xu zhu, and dian wei to say the least.

In the history however, he's pretty good, but he had a pretty tragic death...
Tragic? Mind on enlightening me on what was so tragic about his death? He did what a Fully Grown Zhao Yun did while he was just entering adulthood than he was rewarded for it by the brother of his enemy.

Overrated is Guan Yu. Wen Yang is nowhere near overrated.

Also, Deng Ai dueled constantly with Jiang Wei and by the late Era Jiang Wei was said to be the last great warrior of the error. For Wen Yang to duel Deng Ai while being assaulted at all sides shows how skilled he was. Especially since he was just 18 and Deng Ai was fully grown and experienced.
Wen Yang and his whole family got executed during the war of eight princes, that's not tragic???

Guan Yu is not overrated in the novel, he's underrated
while in history he's stronger than lu bu, in the novel he became inferior...
while in history he killed yan liang by charging into an army tens of thousands, in the novel they attributed to his horse being fast...
If you're talking about the novel, then you need to know that the warriors of the late 3k is much weaker than the warriors of the early 3k..
Jiang Wei can only duel with an old zhao yun for 10 rounds... that's very weak mind you...
Yet Deng Ai is slightly inferior to Jiang Wei in fighting skill...
Wen Yang can't even beat Deng Ai, so how can he be on the same level than generals like Guan Yu and Zhang FEi?

And really, that was Wen Yang's only noticeable battle...so yeah, his pedigree is not strong at all

In real history, however, I do agree that he's a great warrior, but in real history valour is also not as important as commanding skill.
That's Wen Yang is not as good as generals like Guan Yu, Zhang Liao, and Cao Ren
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Darkraids
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BuddHA0991
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:00 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:59 am
Pang De the Azul Knight
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:49 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:43 am
Did the Qiaos get a stage?
The Qiaos, Ding Feng, Lian Shi, Zhou Tai, and Taichi Ci all did not get a stage.
Zhou Tai and Taishi Ci? Now that's weird! How many stages were there for Wu?
Hell, the Qiaos dont appear in a battle, cut scene and aren't even mentioned. They are pretty much nonexistent.
That's quite impossible since the Qiaos were the catalyst that made the Chibi battle happen.
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zhuoran92
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:16 am
Wen Yang defected to Sima Zhao and was made a General and particpiated in the final part of qwelling Zhuge Dan's rebellion. After that he vanished since he wasen't stationed to deal with Shu. Hell, Du Yu and Yang Hu were extremely skilled and served a long time yet they magically appear for the final chapter despite their years of service and skill.

If you weren't a Part of Shu or messed with Shu than you were ignored and forgotten very easily in the Novel.
The thing is, Wen Yang did not even have a prominent role in defeating ZHu ge dan, okay
Du yu carried out the conquest of wu, if we add him, we can really end the game with a battle in 280 ad, the end of wu. See, I don't only think for Shu, i actually think for the whole game, for a proper end, unlike you, haha
Jia Chong, too, he's the one that actually quelled cao mao's insurrection..
Really, they're both more important than Wen Yang...
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Keneticam
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Right.......
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Lian Shi has struck such a chord with me. Her demeanor and comforting ways. such as cuddling Shang Xiang, or gently touching Quans hand to give him reassurance. I also love how she looked at the enemy with a "Yo ass just got owned" Look as she walked off. So diva ish. I'm really liking this chick now.

And in Wu's story, the Qiaos dont exsist.
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WhiteHorseRide
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Right General
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zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:11 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:07 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:04 am
Sun Ce had 4 freaking stages? They couldn't have just given one of those to Taishi Ci? Throw the man a bone, dang it!
In response to your signature:
Wen Yang is overrated in the novel...If he can only fight Deng Ai to a draw, then the five tiger generals are all better than him, so does Gan Ning, Zhang LIao, xu zhu, and dian wei to say the least.

In the history however, he's pretty good, but he had a pretty tragic death...
Tragic? Mind on enlightening me on what was so tragic about his death? He did what a Fully Grown Zhao Yun did while he was just entering adulthood than he was rewarded for it by the brother of his enemy.

Overrated is Guan Yu. Wen Yang is nowhere near overrated.

Also, Deng Ai dueled constantly with Jiang Wei and by the late Era Jiang Wei was said to be the last great warrior of the error. For Wen Yang to duel Deng Ai while being assaulted at all sides shows how skilled he was. Especially since he was just 18 and Deng Ai was fully grown and experienced.
Wen Yang and his whole family got executed during the war of eight princes, that's not tragic???

Guan Yu is not overrated in the novel, he's underrated
while in history he's stronger than lu bu, in the novel he became inferior...
while in history he killed yan liang by charging into an army tens of thousands, in the novel they attributed to his horse being fast...
If you're talking about the novel, then you need to know that the warriors of the late 3k is much weaker than the warriors of the early 3k..
Jiang Wei can only duel with an old zhao yun for 10 rounds... that's very weak mind you...
Yet Deng Ai is slightly inferior to Jiang Wei in fighting skill...
Wen Yang can't even beat Deng Ai, so how can he be on the same level than generals like Guan Yu and Zhang FEi?

And really, that was Wen Yang's only noticeable battle...so yeah, his pedigree is not strong at all

In real history, however, I do agree that he's a great warrior, but in real history valour is also not as important as commanding skill.
That's Wen Yang is not as good as generals like Guan Yu, Zhang Liao, and Cao Ren
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but in what way is Deng Ai slightly inferior to Jiang Wei as a fighter? He had a draw with Jiang Wei himself. And that was with a seasoned Jiang Wei. Not the young one that fought valiantly against an old Zhao Yun.

But yeah, Wen Yang is cool but being compared to Zhao Yun in an era where few really stood out in martial prowess, doesn't make him Zhao Yun.
Edited by WhiteHorseRide, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:29 am.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
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Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am
BuddHA0991
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:00 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:59 am
Pang De the Azul Knight
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:49 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:43 am
Did the Qiaos get a stage?
The Qiaos, Ding Feng, Lian Shi, Zhou Tai, and Taichi Ci all did not get a stage.
Zhou Tai and Taishi Ci? Now that's weird! How many stages were there for Wu?
Hell, the Qiaos dont appear in a battle, cut scene and aren't even mentioned. They are pretty much nonexistent.
That's quite impossible since the Qiaos were the catalyst that made the Chibi battle happen.
That's only in the novel, do you really think cao cao want to conquer wu just because two girls??? get real!
but i do agree that the qiaos should get mentioned
like da qiao with sun ce dying maybe, and xiao qiao alongside zhou yu in battle perhaps
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Liu Bei 7
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Emperor's Retainer
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zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:27 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am
BuddHA0991
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:00 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:59 am
Pang De the Azul Knight
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:49 am

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
Zhou Tai and Taishi Ci? Now that's weird! How many stages were there for Wu?
Hell, the Qiaos dont appear in a battle, cut scene and aren't even mentioned. They are pretty much nonexistent.
That's quite impossible since the Qiaos were the catalyst that made the Chibi battle happen.
That's only in the novel, do you really think cao cao want to conquer wu just because two girls??? get real!
but i do agree that the qiaos should get mentioned
like da qiao with sun ce dying maybe, and xiao qiao alongside zhou yu in battle perhaps
He didn't say it was historical....... and the game is based on the novel anyway.
Edited by Liu Bei 7, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am.
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
A lot of people died unjustly during that time. It isn't tragic but sad. Wen Yang is just like the man that Liu Bang killed. Once he lost his usefullness he was killed off because his mere presence threatened the those in power.

There's a reason that Wen Yang was compared to Zhao Yun. I like to see you defeat a much older and very experienced warrior while outnumbered by the tens of thousands and none of your troops in sight. You also give Jiang Wei far too little credit. He wasen't as skilled of a warrior as Wen Yang when he was young but as he got older he was extremely skilled and bested many other of reputable strength.

Don't sell Deng Ai short either. Not only was he an everyman but he was extremely skilled in the Art of War in both on the battlefield and in the ring. His duel record is quite large even if the Novel really died down after Zhuge Liang died.

Wen Yang participated in more than one battle and lived through the rest of the era. It isn't farfetched to say that he participiated, he 'was' a General, in the fall of Wu under Du Yu's orders. After all, Du Yu rallied a large force under his cause and lets face it. Wen Yang isn't the greatest Leader(Though despite his youth he was much greater than his father who was decent) but a warrior. Thus he would just/ be unleashed instead of being told to command others.

And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
Edited by SazukeEX, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:33 am.
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Yang Xiu
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Court Jester of Wei
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Ha ha, surprised about the kingdom mode deficiencies. The AI is exactly like I said it was, I hope it isnt too easy to update skill trees because it happens so fast....
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
WhiteHorseRide
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:26 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:11 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:07 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:04 am
Sun Ce had 4 freaking stages? They couldn't have just given one of those to Taishi Ci? Throw the man a bone, dang it!
In response to your signature:
Wen Yang is overrated in the novel...If he can only fight Deng Ai to a draw, then the five tiger generals are all better than him, so does Gan Ning, Zhang LIao, xu zhu, and dian wei to say the least.

In the history however, he's pretty good, but he had a pretty tragic death...
Tragic? Mind on enlightening me on what was so tragic about his death? He did what a Fully Grown Zhao Yun did while he was just entering adulthood than he was rewarded for it by the brother of his enemy.

Overrated is Guan Yu. Wen Yang is nowhere near overrated.

Also, Deng Ai dueled constantly with Jiang Wei and by the late Era Jiang Wei was said to be the last great warrior of the error. For Wen Yang to duel Deng Ai while being assaulted at all sides shows how skilled he was. Especially since he was just 18 and Deng Ai was fully grown and experienced.
Wen Yang and his whole family got executed during the war of eight princes, that's not tragic???

Guan Yu is not overrated in the novel, he's underrated
while in history he's stronger than lu bu, in the novel he became inferior...
while in history he killed yan liang by charging into an army tens of thousands, in the novel they attributed to his horse being fast...
If you're talking about the novel, then you need to know that the warriors of the late 3k is much weaker than the warriors of the early 3k..
Jiang Wei can only duel with an old zhao yun for 10 rounds... that's very weak mind you...
Yet Deng Ai is slightly inferior to Jiang Wei in fighting skill...
Wen Yang can't even beat Deng Ai, so how can he be on the same level than generals like Guan Yu and Zhang FEi?

And really, that was Wen Yang's only noticeable battle...so yeah, his pedigree is not strong at all

In real history, however, I do agree that he's a great warrior, but in real history valour is also not as important as commanding skill.
That's Wen Yang is not as good as generals like Guan Yu, Zhang Liao, and Cao Ren
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but in what way is Deng Ai slightly inferior to Jiang Wei as a fighter? He had a draw with Jiang Wei himself. And that was with a seasoned Jiang Wei. Not the young one that fought valiantly against an old Zhao Yun.

But yeah, Wen Yang is cool but being compared to Zhao Yun in an era where few really stood out in martial prowess, doesn't make him Zhao Yun.
believe it or not, but Jiang Wei and Deng AI are actually of the same age
Jiang wei was born in 201 or 203 while Deng Ai is born in 203.
Deng Ai was discovered late, and he had pretty traumatic/poor childhood, that's why he did not become prominent until he was about 45...
zhong hui, on the other hand, was about 20 years younger...
Well, in the novel, there's way to determine who won a duel when there's no clear winner, that's who end the duel first, who loses...
That's why Deng Ai is slightly inferior, because he usually ends the duel...but they're as close to equal as they can be
still, not at the early 3k level at all...
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The Demon King
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The One-Eyed Wolf
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Why can't people realize that its not that certain characters got the shaft, its that Koei/Omega Force is telling a specific story and the characters who did not get a stage in Kingdom Mode, so not fit the story they are trying to tell.

Be thankful we have great cutscenes and battles that actually matter and are interesting instead of everyone having a Musou Mode and us playing the same stages over and over. Everyone always has something to complain about, the same isn't even out and all I read is anger and doubt.
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Mizunoryu
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Conqueror Demon
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C'mon guys. The game is more biased on the novel. They could easily give more depths to Qiaos. Most likely on Chi Bi.

And I remember Da Qiao being recognized as mother to Wu's officers, for her careness and being gentle. He should at least appears on Ce's death. But I loved Lian Shi's personality. Hot, sexy, knows how to kick some butts, smart, husband's supporter and decent. I could have a woman like that :wub:
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:25 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:16 am
Wen Yang defected to Sima Zhao and was made a General and particpiated in the final part of qwelling Zhuge Dan's rebellion. After that he vanished since he wasen't stationed to deal with Shu. Hell, Du Yu and Yang Hu were extremely skilled and served a long time yet they magically appear for the final chapter despite their years of service and skill.

If you weren't a Part of Shu or messed with Shu than you were ignored and forgotten very easily in the Novel.
The thing is, Wen Yang did not even have a prominent role in defeating ZHu ge dan, okay
Du yu carried out the conquest of wu, if we add him, we can really end the game with a battle in 280 ad, the end of wu. See, I don't only think for Shu, i actually think for the whole game, for a proper end, unlike you, haha
Jia Chong, too, he's the one that actually quelled cao mao's insurrection..
Really, they're both more important than Wen Yang...
Zhuge Dan's rebels were willing to die for the man to the lsat breath. When Wen Yang defected and was promoted to a General it sapped the morale out of the rebels. This caused mass defections and lead to Zhuge Dan murdering much of his force because he feared tha they would abandon him. Later he would die off with no hope o ever getting further aid from Wu even if the last aid they received was bested quite easily outside Wen Qin and Wen Yangs force that had arrived mostly intact.

You can't really add Du Yu without Yang Hu, Lu Kang, and Sun Hao. Wen Yang merely needed Sima Shi, Sima Zhao, and Zhuge Dan to get in. They all got in thus it would be very easy to add Wen Yang in especially since he was relevant to these characters and the succession of Sima Shi to Sima Zhao.
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Darkraids
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First Lieutenant
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Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:29 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:27 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am
BuddHA0991
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:00 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:59 am

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
Hell, the Qiaos dont appear in a battle, cut scene and aren't even mentioned. They are pretty much nonexistent.
That's quite impossible since the Qiaos were the catalyst that made the Chibi battle happen.
That's only in the novel, do you really think cao cao want to conquer wu just because two girls??? get real!
but i do agree that the qiaos should get mentioned
like da qiao with sun ce dying maybe, and xiao qiao alongside zhou yu in battle perhaps
He didn't say it was historical....... and the game is based on the novel anyway.
Yup, it's based on the novel.

Wow I really thought that everyone would have at least one stage considering they had 20+ stages for each kingdom. It's like DW6 all over again with characters not having a musou mode. This is bad.

I can see Xu Zhu, Pang Tong and Wei Yan not having stages too.

:(
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
A lot of people died unjustly during that time. It isn't tragic but sad. Wen Yang is just like the man that Liu Bang killed. Once he lost his usefullness he was killed off because his mere presence threatened the those in power.

There's a reason that Wen Yang was compared to Zhao Yun. I like to see you defeat a much older and very experienced warrior while outnumbered by the tens of thousands and none of your troops in sight. You also give Jiang Wei far too little credit. He wasen't as skilled of a warrior as Wen Yang when he was young but as he got older he was extremely skilled and bested many other of reputable strength.

Don't sell Deng Ai short either. Not only was he an everyman but he was extremely skilled in the Art of War in both on the battlefield and in the ring. His duel record is quite large even if the Novel really died down after Zhuge Liang died.

Wen Yang participated in more than one battle and lived through the rest of the era. It isn't farfetched to say that he participiated, he 'was' a General, in the fall of Wu under Du Yu's orders. After all, Du Yu rallied a large force under his cause and lets face it. Wen Yang isn't the greatest Leader(Though despite his youth he was much greater than his father who was decent) but a warrior. Thus he would just/ be unleashed instead of being told to command others.

And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
Again, Guan Yu is not overrated
if you're talking exagerration, then yes, he did not kill Hua Xiong, Sun Jian did...and he probably did not kill Wen Chou, Wen CHou died in battle...
But the thing is, in the history Guan Yu is rated the best 3k warrior, to the point that for over several centuries he and Zhang fei are the ones used to describe great warriors. others? they're inferior... Zhao Yun was more of a bodyguard, and lu bu was just a great fighter, but not on the same level as GUan and Zhang... And Ma Chao can't even defeat Yan XIng!!!
Yet in the novel, Guan Yu can't beat Lu Bu, can't be Zhao yun, and some might even interpret him as inferior than Zhang Fei and Ma Chao
SO yeah, he's not overrated, he's underrated
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
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Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:40 am
Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:29 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:27 am
Darkraids
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:22 am
BuddHA0991
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:00 am

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
That's quite impossible since the Qiaos were the catalyst that made the Chibi battle happen.
That's only in the novel, do you really think cao cao want to conquer wu just because two girls??? get real!
but i do agree that the qiaos should get mentioned
like da qiao with sun ce dying maybe, and xiao qiao alongside zhou yu in battle perhaps
He didn't say it was historical....... and the game is based on the novel anyway.
Yup, it's based on the novel.

Wow I really thought that everyone would have at least one stage considering they had 20+ stages for each kingdom. It's like DW6 all over again with characters not having a musou mode. This is bad.

I can see Xu Zhu, Pang Tong and Wei Yan not having stages too.

:(
No dude, XU Zhu does have at least one stage
he's the guy for Xu ZHou
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SazukeEX
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Zhang Fei was actually the better fighter of the two. Guan Yu even makes mention in multiple occasions that as a warrior Zhang Fei was clearly the best. Obviously when they fought Lu Bu neither were his equal but up to Lu Bu's death both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei had surpassed Lu Bu as warriors. Mostly because Lu Bu grew soft, at least in the Novel, and lost much of which made him so fearsome in the first place.

Zhuge Liang makes mention that Ma Chao is no equal to Guan Yu and Zhao Yun was skilled but he couldn't best Guan Yu in a fight let alone commanding armies.
Edited by SazukeEX, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:44 am.
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zhuoran92
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:36 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:25 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:16 am
Wen Yang defected to Sima Zhao and was made a General and particpiated in the final part of qwelling Zhuge Dan's rebellion. After that he vanished since he wasen't stationed to deal with Shu. Hell, Du Yu and Yang Hu were extremely skilled and served a long time yet they magically appear for the final chapter despite their years of service and skill.

If you weren't a Part of Shu or messed with Shu than you were ignored and forgotten very easily in the Novel.
The thing is, Wen Yang did not even have a prominent role in defeating ZHu ge dan, okay
Du yu carried out the conquest of wu, if we add him, we can really end the game with a battle in 280 ad, the end of wu. See, I don't only think for Shu, i actually think for the whole game, for a proper end, unlike you, haha
Jia Chong, too, he's the one that actually quelled cao mao's insurrection..
Really, they're both more important than Wen Yang...
Zhuge Dan's rebels were willing to die for the man to the lsat breath. When Wen Yang defected and was promoted to a General it sapped the morale out of the rebels. This caused mass defections and lead to Zhuge Dan murdering much of his force because he feared tha they would abandon him. Later he would die off with no hope o ever getting further aid from Wu even if the last aid they received was bested quite easily outside Wen Qin and Wen Yangs force that had arrived mostly intact.

You can't really add Du Yu without Yang Hu, Lu Kang, and Sun Hao. Wen Yang merely needed Sima Shi, Sima Zhao, and Zhuge Dan to get in. They all got in thus it would be very easy to add Wen Yang in especially since he was relevant to these characters and the succession of Sima Shi to Sima Zhao.
I have to say you do have a point.
but still, the battle of Huai Nan was mostly over before Wen Yang's defection. And Wen Yang doesn't really have a fighting role in the battle, more of a psychological role.
While Du Yu, like you said, is a little hard to add, I can't see why can't they add Jia CHong, who's probably the most loyal Jin member.
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WhiteHorseRide
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zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:40 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
A lot of people died unjustly during that time. It isn't tragic but sad. Wen Yang is just like the man that Liu Bang killed. Once he lost his usefullness he was killed off because his mere presence threatened the those in power.

There's a reason that Wen Yang was compared to Zhao Yun. I like to see you defeat a much older and very experienced warrior while outnumbered by the tens of thousands and none of your troops in sight. You also give Jiang Wei far too little credit. He wasen't as skilled of a warrior as Wen Yang when he was young but as he got older he was extremely skilled and bested many other of reputable strength.

Don't sell Deng Ai short either. Not only was he an everyman but he was extremely skilled in the Art of War in both on the battlefield and in the ring. His duel record is quite large even if the Novel really died down after Zhuge Liang died.

Wen Yang participated in more than one battle and lived through the rest of the era. It isn't farfetched to say that he participiated, he 'was' a General, in the fall of Wu under Du Yu's orders. After all, Du Yu rallied a large force under his cause and lets face it. Wen Yang isn't the greatest Leader(Though despite his youth he was much greater than his father who was decent) but a warrior. Thus he would just/ be unleashed instead of being told to command others.

And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
Again, Guan Yu is not overrated
if you're talking exagerration, then yes, he did not kill Hua Xiong, Sun Jian did...and he probably did not kill Wen Chou, Wen CHou died in battle...
But the thing is, in the history Guan Yu is rated the best 3k warrior, to the point that for over several centuries he and Zhang fei are the ones used to describe great warriors. others? they're inferior... Zhao Yun was more of a bodyguard, and lu bu was just a great fighter, but not on the same level as GUan and Zhang... And Ma Chao can't even defeat Yan XIng!!!
Yet in the novel, Guan Yu can't beat Lu Bu, can't be Zhao yun, and some might even interpret him as inferior than Zhang Fei and Ma Chao
SO yeah, he's not overrated, he's underrated
A point on Ma Chao, Yan Xing did apparently get the better of him, but that was also Ma Chao's first recorded battle. Early enough that it's not even mentioned in his own SGZ bio. So its not fair to pin his prowess on that one showing.

Judging by Liu Bei's insistence on including his name up there with Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, Zhuge Liang's praise of him and even Cao Cao's high praise of his abilities during and after the Tong Gate affair, I would say his reputation as a great fighter certainly has to be considered.

Edited by WhiteHorseRide, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:50 am.
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SazukeEX
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Jia Chong should have gotten in with Wen Yang even if Wu got just as shafted as it did currently. Jia Chong wasen't just exclusively involved with Wu and he was there early enough to be relevant as was Wen Yang.

Hell, wasen't it Jia Chong who gauged the loyalties of Zhuge Dan and informed Sima Zhao of the rebellion before Zhuge Dan could truely prepare for one? Hell, the Wu reinforcements barely mae it in time and when they did it made little difference since the one leading the Wu forces wasen't skilled which forced the Wen Family to hold out for a seige with Zhuge Dan.

I personally think that Zhuge Dan went kinda insane after the many setbacks of his rebellion and finally snapped when Wen Qin offered advice he thought stupid. Needless to say it really came back to bite him.
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