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Dynasty Warriors 7 [v5] (SPOILERS); SPOILERS BEWARE! GAMEPLAY VIDEOS/INFO INSIDE!
Topic Started: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm (735,392 Views)
ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The Demon King
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:34 am
Why can't people realize that its not that certain characters got the shaft, its that Koei/Omega Force is telling a specific story and the characters who did not get a stage in Kingdom Mode, so not fit the story they are trying to tell.

Be thankful we have great cutscenes and battles that actually matter and are interesting instead of everyone having a Musou Mode and us playing the same stages over and over. Everyone always has something to complain about, the same isn't even out and all I read is anger and doubt.
Well, when Taishi Ci, Zhou Tai and Ding Feng could have been inserted in one of the various Sun Ce, Gan Ning or Lu Xun (who all have at least two, three each), and had been of the same output or even given a more interesting take on the level itself.

Just seems lazy. Not a game breaker (for me), but it gives me the impression that Koei did Wu's story mode last. They were so caught up with the new Kingdom smell of Jin that they realized that there was another kingdom somewhere in there.

"Guys, look how awesome this new kingdom is! It has Sima Yi's children, a snotty brat who can control swords with telekenesis, Justin Bieber in armor. Aw man, they're so SWEET!"
"Uh, what do you want to do with this kingdom? *holds up plans for Wu's story* I mean, it does have one of our favorites, Taishi Ci."
"Screw them, WE GOT DENG AI!"

...

To be fair, I love Deng Ai. Just... not sure why he's in Jin, but that's beating a dead horse here.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:44 am
Zhang Fei was actually the better fighter of the two. Guan Yu even makes mention in multiple occasions that as a warrior Zhang Fei was clearly the best. Obviously when they fought Lu Bu neither were his equal but up to Lu Bu's death both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei had surpassed Lu Bu as warriors. Mostly because Lu Bu grew soft, at least in the Novel, and lost much of which made him so fearsome in the first place.

Zhuge Liang makes mention that Ma Chao is no equal to Guan Yu and Zhao Yun was skilled but he couldn't best Guan Yu in a fight let alone commanding armies.
Zhang Fei is not, Guan Yu's comment to Cao Cao can not be really taken as face level. Guan Yu was really being humble and trying to talk up his brother before their future enemy.
It's hard to compare the two brothers, because they never fight/duel against each other... but Guan Yu is more skilled in commanding.
And while in the novel, it took all three brothers to beat LU Bu, that is BS!
in history lu bu can even beat several assassins, and have to run away from them.
He's not that strong like in the novel.
However, one of his commander, Gao SHun, is gravely underestimated.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
ChibiGingi
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:54 am
The Demon King
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:34 am
Why can't people realize that its not that certain characters got the shaft, its that Koei/Omega Force is telling a specific story and the characters who did not get a stage in Kingdom Mode, so not fit the story they are trying to tell.

Be thankful we have great cutscenes and battles that actually matter and are interesting instead of everyone having a Musou Mode and us playing the same stages over and over. Everyone always has something to complain about, the same isn't even out and all I read is anger and doubt.
Well, when Taishi Ci, Zhou Tai and Ding Feng could have been inserted in one of the various Sun Ce, Gan Ning or Lu Xun (who all have at least two, three each), and had been of the same output or even given a more interesting take on the level itself.

Just seems lazy. Not a game breaker (for me), but it gives me the impression that Koei did Wu's story mode last. They were so caught up with the new Kingdom smell of Jin that they realized that there was another kingdom somewhere in there.

"Guys, look how awesome this new kingdom is! It has Sima Yi's children, a snotty brat who can control swords with telekenesis, Justin Bieber in armor. Aw man, they're so SWEET!"
"Uh, what do you want to do with this kingdom? *holds up plans for Wu's story* I mean, it does have one of our favorites, Taishi Ci."
"Screw them, WE GOT DENG AI!"

...

To be fair, I love Deng Ai. Just... not sure why he's in Jin, but that's beating a dead horse here.
Deng Ai is in Jin because he really fights for the sima family, not cao wei.
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YumichiHeart
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Wei's Elite
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:11 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:07 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:04 am
Sun Ce had 4 freaking stages? They couldn't have just given one of those to Taishi Ci? Throw the man a bone, dang it!
In response to your signature:
Wen Yang is overrated in the novel...If he can only fight Deng Ai to a draw, then the five tiger generals are all better than him, so does Gan Ning, Zhang LIao, xu zhu, and dian wei to say the least.

In the history however, he's pretty good, but he had a pretty tragic death...
Tragic? Mind on enlightening me on what was so tragic about his death? He did what a Fully Grown Zhao Yun did while he was just entering adulthood than he was rewarded for it by the brother of his enemy.

Overrated is Guan Yu. Wen Yang is nowhere near overrated.

Also, Deng Ai dueled constantly with Jiang Wei and by the late Era Jiang Wei was said to be the last great warrior of the error. For Wen Yang to duel Deng Ai while being assaulted at all sides shows how skilled he was. Especially since he was just 18 and Deng Ai was fully grown and experienced.
Pretty much how i feel, Wen Yang is a dream add for Jin. :wub:


Wen Yang is extremely underrated imo.


The fact Wen Yang could do what he did at an early age is quite impressive, Wen Yang has a lot of potential seeing as how they favor Shu with Jin close second, Wen Yang could be one of the best Jin adds and possible candidates along with Sima Yan for DW8, or DLC/Empires.
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SilentNinja
Changshan Savior
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SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
He's overrated in the entire 3kingdom media next to Kongming(and Ma Chao, see SD Gundam Sangokuden....)

Maybe now, I know why Pang De didn't make the cut here.
Edited by SilentNinja, Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:58 am.
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Also Xiahou Ba in Jin? You don't get to play the bastard before he defects to Shu.

And so true Chibi I can imagine a conversation between a soldier and Sima Zhao.

Soldier: Congratulations on your conquest of Shu, my lord. What are your plans for Wu?
Sima Zhao: Who?
Soldier: Eastern Wu. The country to the south. THey've been harassing us for a while.
Sima Zhao: Meh, they're not worth the screentime.
Soldier: What is this "screentime"?
Edited by Paragon of Light, Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:00 am.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:57 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
He's overrated in the entire 3kingdom media next to Kongming(and Ma Chao, see SD Gundam Sangokuden....)

Maybe now, I knew why Pang De didn't make the cut here.
Pang De wouldn't have gotten a level anyway, even if he was included.

Apparently dragging your coffin to a duel with the God of War isn't worthy of anything besides a casual shrug and "that's cool, I guess..."

@Paragon of Light- "Wu... that's the sound you make when you're pretending to give a crap, isn't it? Wuuuuuuuuuuuu."

So unloved. I shall have to love them ten times more to make up for it.
Edited by ChibiGingi, Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:00 am.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
WhiteHorseRide
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:48 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:40 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
A lot of people died unjustly during that time. It isn't tragic but sad. Wen Yang is just like the man that Liu Bang killed. Once he lost his usefullness he was killed off because his mere presence threatened the those in power.

There's a reason that Wen Yang was compared to Zhao Yun. I like to see you defeat a much older and very experienced warrior while outnumbered by the tens of thousands and none of your troops in sight. You also give Jiang Wei far too little credit. He wasen't as skilled of a warrior as Wen Yang when he was young but as he got older he was extremely skilled and bested many other of reputable strength.

Don't sell Deng Ai short either. Not only was he an everyman but he was extremely skilled in the Art of War in both on the battlefield and in the ring. His duel record is quite large even if the Novel really died down after Zhuge Liang died.

Wen Yang participated in more than one battle and lived through the rest of the era. It isn't farfetched to say that he participiated, he 'was' a General, in the fall of Wu under Du Yu's orders. After all, Du Yu rallied a large force under his cause and lets face it. Wen Yang isn't the greatest Leader(Though despite his youth he was much greater than his father who was decent) but a warrior. Thus he would just/ be unleashed instead of being told to command others.

And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
Again, Guan Yu is not overrated
if you're talking exagerration, then yes, he did not kill Hua Xiong, Sun Jian did...and he probably did not kill Wen Chou, Wen CHou died in battle...
But the thing is, in the history Guan Yu is rated the best 3k warrior, to the point that for over several centuries he and Zhang fei are the ones used to describe great warriors. others? they're inferior... Zhao Yun was more of a bodyguard, and lu bu was just a great fighter, but not on the same level as GUan and Zhang... And Ma Chao can't even defeat Yan XIng!!!
Yet in the novel, Guan Yu can't beat Lu Bu, can't be Zhao yun, and some might even interpret him as inferior than Zhang Fei and Ma Chao
SO yeah, he's not overrated, he's underrated
A point on Ma Chao, Yan Xing did apparently get the better of him, but that was also Ma Chao's first recorded battle. Early enough that it's not even mentioned in his own SGZ bio. So its not fair to pin his prowess on that one showing.

Judging by Liu Bei's insistence on including his name up there with Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, Zhuge Liang's praise of him and even Cao Cao's high praise of his abilities during and after the Tong Gate affair, I would say his reputation as a great fighter certainly has to be considered.

Ma Chao was put in the five tiger general mostly by reputation though
He didn't really do much for SHu Han except participating in the Han ZHong Campaign
Even that it is Zhang Fei who defeated Zhang He and Liu Bei who defeated Xia Hou Yuan (Huang Zhong killed him tho)
A point about Ma Chao tho, is the skill of his army. Liang/Qiang troops are some of the most elite soldiers at the time...
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Jiang Wei1
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First Lieutenant
[ *  *  * ]
It's so hard staying off this forum. I've been trying to return all day, but there are way too many spoilers. I honestly didn't think it would be this difficult. I guess im gone for sure now. Must find a new hobby on the internet for 21 days. :(
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
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zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:54 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:44 am
Zhang Fei was actually the better fighter of the two. Guan Yu even makes mention in multiple occasions that as a warrior Zhang Fei was clearly the best. Obviously when they fought Lu Bu neither were his equal but up to Lu Bu's death both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei had surpassed Lu Bu as warriors. Mostly because Lu Bu grew soft, at least in the Novel, and lost much of which made him so fearsome in the first place.

Zhuge Liang makes mention that Ma Chao is no equal to Guan Yu and Zhao Yun was skilled but he couldn't best Guan Yu in a fight let alone commanding armies.
Zhang Fei is not, Guan Yu's comment to Cao Cao can not be really taken as face level. Guan Yu was really being humble and trying to talk up his brother before their future enemy.
It's hard to compare the two brothers, because they never fight/duel against each other... but Guan Yu is more skilled in commanding.
And while in the novel, it took all three brothers to beat LU Bu, that is BS!
in history lu bu can even beat several assassins, and have to run away from them.
He's not that strong like in the novel.
However, one of his commander, Gao SHun, is gravely underestimated.
Maybe he was but they did fight and Zhang Fei and Guan Yu appeared evenly matched. Guan Yu didn't despire to fight his brother especially since it could have gone either way.

They were just starting out and were fresh. Even Guan Yu was humbled when he was younger. Not everyone is born as a BAMF like Lu Bu was.

Usually when Assasians attack they attack when you're least prepared. Hell, Sun Ce died by assasians but does that make him any less of a warrior just because his would be killers had no names worth mentioning?

Gao Shun got the shaft. If Lu Bu had a true musou than Chen Gong and Gao Shun would be required to flesh it out.
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TrueConquer
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First Lieutenant
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I watched the Wu story but it only had Sun Jian, Sun Ce, Sun Quan, Sun Shang Xiang and Zhou Yu, is that it for the Wu kingdom or is there more?
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
@ True Conquer There is also Huang Gai, Lu Meng, Lu Xun, Gan Ning and Ling Tong but thats about it. The new characters doesn't get a stage in Kingdom mode.
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YumichiHeart
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Wei's Elite
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ChibiGingi
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:59 am
SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:57 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
He's overrated in the entire 3kingdom media next to Kongming(and Ma Chao, see SD Gundam Sangokuden....)

Maybe now, I knew why Pang De didn't make the cut here.
Pang De wouldn't have gotten a level anyway, even if he was included.

Apparently dragging your coffin to a duel with the God of War isn't worthy of anything besides a casual shrug and "that's cool, I guess..."

@Paragon of Light- "Wu... that's the sound you make when you're pretending to give a crap, isn't it? Wuuuuuuuuuuuu."

So unloved. I shall have to love them ten times more to make up for it.
Not only did Pang De have a flashy intro to that battle, he nearly kills Guan Yu, but is called back by Yu Jin. Pang De is underrated in terms of skill, people think Pang De is that sissy who was another quick slice or two for Guan Yu.

DW7 DLC Idea: Make a new stage for Fan castle, Add Pang De, add Pang De carrying his coffin into battle, add Pang De's novel personality as bloodthirsty. Wow! Guess what we have? A unique warrior for Wei, and a nice challenge for Guan Yu and a decent Cutscene or two.
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Liu Bei 7
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Emperor's Retainer
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YumichiHeart
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:03 am
ChibiGingi
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:59 am
SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:57 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
He's overrated in the entire 3kingdom media next to Kongming(and Ma Chao, see SD Gundam Sangokuden....)

Maybe now, I knew why Pang De didn't make the cut here.
Pang De wouldn't have gotten a level anyway, even if he was included.

Apparently dragging your coffin to a duel with the God of War isn't worthy of anything besides a casual shrug and "that's cool, I guess..."

@Paragon of Light- "Wu... that's the sound you make when you're pretending to give a crap, isn't it? Wuuuuuuuuuuuu."

So unloved. I shall have to love them ten times more to make up for it.
Not only did Pang De have a flashy intro to that battle, he nearly kills Guan Yu, but is called back by Yu Jin. Pang De is underrated in terms of skill, people think Pang De is that sissy who was another quick slice or two for Guan Yu.

DW7 DLC Idea: Make a new stage for Fan castle, Add Pang De, add Pang De carrying his coffin into battle, add Pang De's novel personality as bloodthirsty. Wow! Guess what we have? A unique warrior for Wei, and a nice challenge for Guan Yu and a decent Cutscene or two.
Speaking of which, has there been any word on whether Pang De is a generic or absent from the game?
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:57 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
He's overrated in the entire 3kingdom media next to Kongming(and Ma Chao, see SD Gundam Sangokuden....)

Maybe now, I know why Pang De didn't make the cut here.
Guan Yu is overrated in the whole sense of god worshipping, but that's Chinese ppl worshipped him and a lot of his qualities
As for his fighting ability, it was supposed to be number one in the 3k era, yet the novel elevated Lu Bu and Zhao Yun's status at the expense of Guan Yu... that's underrating Guan
Kong Ming is overrated for sure, but in history he's still one of the best administrator in chinese history, a great strategist, and a great commander
some doubt his commanding ability, but really, with an army of less than 50,000, mostly infantry, he can attack the foreign country, and scare wei to the point that Sima Yi doesn't even dare to attack Han army even though he has much more troops and strong cavalry...
that's a huge accomplishment...
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Raiko Z
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Dynasty Recon Chinalands
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
They added Ding Feng and Lian Shi, yet they don't put them into the story.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:00 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:54 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:44 am
Zhang Fei was actually the better fighter of the two. Guan Yu even makes mention in multiple occasions that as a warrior Zhang Fei was clearly the best. Obviously when they fought Lu Bu neither were his equal but up to Lu Bu's death both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei had surpassed Lu Bu as warriors. Mostly because Lu Bu grew soft, at least in the Novel, and lost much of which made him so fearsome in the first place.

Zhuge Liang makes mention that Ma Chao is no equal to Guan Yu and Zhao Yun was skilled but he couldn't best Guan Yu in a fight let alone commanding armies.
Zhang Fei is not, Guan Yu's comment to Cao Cao can not be really taken as face level. Guan Yu was really being humble and trying to talk up his brother before their future enemy.
It's hard to compare the two brothers, because they never fight/duel against each other... but Guan Yu is more skilled in commanding.
And while in the novel, it took all three brothers to beat LU Bu, that is BS!
in history lu bu can even beat several assassins, and have to run away from them.
He's not that strong like in the novel.
However, one of his commander, Gao SHun, is gravely underestimated.
Maybe he was but they did fight and Zhang Fei and Guan Yu appeared evenly matched. Guan Yu didn't despire to fight his brother especially since it could have gone either way.

They were just starting out and were fresh. Even Guan Yu was humbled when he was younger. Not everyone is born as a BAMF like Lu Bu was.

Usually when Assasians attack they attack when you're least prepared. Hell, Sun Ce died by assasians but does that make him any less of a warrior just because his would be killers had no names worth mentioning?

Gao Shun got the shaft. If Lu Bu had a true musou than Chen Gong and Gao Shun would be required to flesh it out.
SUn cE killed his assassins... Lu Bu ran away...
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TrueConquer
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First Lieutenant
[ *  *  * ]
Paragon of Light
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:03 am
@ True Conquer There is also Huang Gai, Lu Meng, Lu Xun, Gan Ning and Ling Tong but thats about it. The new characters doesn't get a stage in Kingdom mode.
That's not too bad I guess but it does blow that not all the characters were incorporated. At least all the characters have a stage in Conquest mode then
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Raiko Z
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:06 am
They added Ding Feng and Lian Shi, yet they don't put them into the story.
Yep. DLC/XL, ftw! I mean, who DOESN'T resort to that nowadays?

Maybe we'll be lucky and they'll include other Late Wu and more Wei characters as well.
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YumichiHeart
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Wei's Elite
[ *  *  * ]
Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:05 am
YumichiHeart
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:03 am
ChibiGingi
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:59 am
SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:57 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:31 am
And yes Guan Yu is overrated in the Novel. Have you read the same material as I?
He's overrated in the entire 3kingdom media next to Kongming(and Ma Chao, see SD Gundam Sangokuden....)

Maybe now, I knew why Pang De didn't make the cut here.
Pang De wouldn't have gotten a level anyway, even if he was included.

Apparently dragging your coffin to a duel with the God of War isn't worthy of anything besides a casual shrug and "that's cool, I guess..."

@Paragon of Light- "Wu... that's the sound you make when you're pretending to give a crap, isn't it? Wuuuuuuuuuuuu."

So unloved. I shall have to love them ten times more to make up for it.
Not only did Pang De have a flashy intro to that battle, he nearly kills Guan Yu, but is called back by Yu Jin. Pang De is underrated in terms of skill, people think Pang De is that sissy who was another quick slice or two for Guan Yu.

DW7 DLC Idea: Make a new stage for Fan castle, Add Pang De, add Pang De carrying his coffin into battle, add Pang De's novel personality as bloodthirsty. Wow! Guess what we have? A unique warrior for Wei, and a nice challenge for Guan Yu and a decent Cutscene or two.
Speaking of which, has there been any word on whether Pang De is a generic or absent from the game?
I hope he is at least an NPC in Fan Castle. That would make a lot more sense honestly, DW5 Fan Castle was one of the best maps I played, except they never told about Pang De's death or Yu Jin's surrender correctly or at all...

In DW7 I was expecting the return of a new Pang De, sorta like the new Xing Cai.

To answer your question, I don't think its been confirmed yet to have Pang De even as an NPC... Maybe people who speak Japanese may see his name poke its head out to be seen? (the stream is playing Wei isn't it?)
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Sun Ce killed them but he died because of it. Had he ran away like Lu Bu did than he would have lived to guide Wu to a brighter future. As Sun Ce said, as a Commander he was simply better than Sun Quan. If Sun Ce hadn't died than Cao Cao might have been in real danger since he was really open because of his war against Yuan Shao.
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SilentNinja
Changshan Savior
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Zhao Yun was more of a bodyguard



HAHAHA! He probably hate reading like Lu Meng(Before he transform into The Warrior Scholar) :rolleyes:

Yeah, the wonderful interpretation of the novel Zhao Zilong!! :lol:

Anyway, when are we going to get the ShuHan vids?.... The story I'm worrying about can't get any worst as soon as I watch Jin dynasty.

Argh, Zhao Yun just a bodyguard nobody theory.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:00 am
zhuoran92
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:54 am
SazukeEX
Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:44 am
Zhang Fei was actually the better fighter of the two. Guan Yu even makes mention in multiple occasions that as a warrior Zhang Fei was clearly the best. Obviously when they fought Lu Bu neither were his equal but up to Lu Bu's death both Guan Yu and Zhang Fei had surpassed Lu Bu as warriors. Mostly because Lu Bu grew soft, at least in the Novel, and lost much of which made him so fearsome in the first place.

Zhuge Liang makes mention that Ma Chao is no equal to Guan Yu and Zhao Yun was skilled but he couldn't best Guan Yu in a fight let alone commanding armies.
Zhang Fei is not, Guan Yu's comment to Cao Cao can not be really taken as face level. Guan Yu was really being humble and trying to talk up his brother before their future enemy.
It's hard to compare the two brothers, because they never fight/duel against each other... but Guan Yu is more skilled in commanding.
And while in the novel, it took all three brothers to beat LU Bu, that is BS!
in history lu bu can even beat several assassins, and have to run away from them.
He's not that strong like in the novel.
However, one of his commander, Gao SHun, is gravely underestimated.
Maybe he was but they did fight and Zhang Fei and Guan Yu appeared evenly matched. Guan Yu didn't despire to fight his brother especially since it could have gone either way.

They were just starting out and were fresh. Even Guan Yu was humbled when he was younger. Not everyone is born as a BAMF like Lu Bu was.

Usually when Assasians attack they attack when you're least prepared. Hell, Sun Ce died by assasians but does that make him any less of a warrior just because his would be killers had no names worth mentioning?

Gao Shun got the shaft. If Lu Bu had a true musou than Chen Gong and Gao Shun would be required to flesh it out.
Guan Yu's weakness is that he doesn't like the higher class, it has something to do with his humble upbringing i guess (he was poor when he was little). He treats soldiers and commoners really well, but he has terrible relationships with his colleagues... That's part of the reason he was betrayed by Mi Fang and Shi Ren
zhang Fei is the opposite, he respect higher class but mistreat his troops, which end up getting him assassinated in his sleep

sad...
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vubradbecks
Soldier
[ * ]
hey guys!!!
can you tell me about story of Wu and Jin !!!!Thx ^^
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Too bad Liu Bei didn't love his brothers enough to try and correct those faults of theirs. A real pity.
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