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Dynasty Warriors 7 [v5] (SPOILERS); SPOILERS BEWARE! GAMEPLAY VIDEOS/INFO INSIDE!
Topic Started: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm (735,374 Views)
GuardianAlexio
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The Epitome of Excellence
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Solf Aetheral
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:54 pm
GuardianAlexio
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:51 pm
Yeah because as a historical fan of the era I TOTALLY feel pissed on because Koei decided to choose a character who has an entire folk tale dedicated to him. :rolleyes:
You can't possibly be an history freak and support the inclusion of completely fictionnal character. The only relevant sons of Guan Yu are Ping and Xing, end of the line.
I have my own character wants and wishes just like any other fan, but don't make it sound like just because I'm not up in arms because a fictional character that has a bases in other text doesn't make me any less of a fan of the historical era. It's Dynasty Warriors, a game that is based LOOSELY on the time period that stretches things and will use many fictional elements in their story telling.



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Shadowclaimer
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As much as I hate the exclusion of some characters from Kingdom Mode, if you instantly hate the game and don't buy it because of that reason alone or downplay Koei as a whole because of it you're quite ignorant. Was it a stupid decision? Yes, it pretty much was, does it make Kingdom Mode absolute trash? Absolutely not, out of every single Dynasty Warriors game Kingdom Mode is by far the most in depth and cinematic Musou Mode we've ever had hands down, am I asking you to be thankful for it? Not directly, but please stop treating it like its something that shouldn't ever be played because your favorite characters got excluded.

Trust me, none of my mains made it in any of the Kingdom Modes, but I'm going to suck it up because Kingdom Mode itself is quite well put together (even with improper character choices), that and there's always Conquest Mode which is shaping up to be even better than I had previously thought, and you know characters like Zhou Tai, Taishi Ci, Lian Shi, Xu Huang, Cao Ren, and the others will be receiving 3 Legend Mode stages apiece (and given the quality of the ones we've seen so far, these should be quite amazing and better than what some Kingdom Mode Stages have offered anyway.
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Uncle Vlad
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Wait what characters have what stages in kingdom mode that we know of so far?
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Mizunoryu
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Conqueror Demon
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You know what's more annoying? Now Guan Suo and Bao Sanniang won't be cut because they'll get some fans who will cry about them.
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Solf Aetheral
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majed12345
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:01 pm
The game is already out so enjoy it or don't buy it.
That's stupid. So when you're going to a restaurant, and eating ****, you're supposed to shut it just because you've paid ?

Oh, and lol at the @History class argument. I wouldn't hate that much Guan Suo and BS if they weren't stealing spotlight from REAL characters. I mean, what the hell, Fan Castle was MADE for a Guan Yu/Guan Ping transition. Not for that damn fictionnal sore loser.

Oh, and please note, I'm still pretty excited about DW7, but I can't just shut it when there's still a hell lot of bad things around. I'll buy it on day one anyway.
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The Outsider
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Not the whole historical V fictional argument again :facepalm: . The game is more based on ROTK novel than either, so the argument can end right here. It's not good to see characters more deserving get shafted, but because Suo and Sanniang are in the book and people just love couples (apparently), so they were added.
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Troy
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Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:48 pm
So, could we have a Shu stage list so far please :wave: ?
Here's what I have, it's not at all complete..

???-Liu Bei

Yellow Turban-Liu Bei

Campaign vs Dong Zhuo (guy quit at the start I assume it's this map)- Guan Yu


**** LOTS OF STAGES MISSING IN THE MIDDLE ****

???- Zhuge Liang

Mt. Jing Dun- Huang Zhong

Fan Castle Pt1.- Guan Yu

Fan Castle Pt2.- Guan Suo.
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SilverZhongda
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Dian Wei dude
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:04 pm
Wait what characters have what stages in kingdom mode that we know of so far?
http://s13.zetaboards.com/koeiwarriors/topic/6769627/1/#new

Jin, Wu, and Wei so far.
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SilentNinja
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Mizunoryu
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:04 pm
You know what's more annoying? Now Guan Suo and Bao Sanniang won't be cut because they'll get some fans who will cry about them.
More like, we get a bunch of Guan Suo x Bao Sanniang romance fics when the game comes out.

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NovemEnuma
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How's the Kingdom Mode pathetic?

Just because you don't get to play your favorite character (which you can play any character you want in Conquest Mode), you instantly become butt-hurt, and label said mode as pathetic.

Get over it! You all are starting to sound like spoiled brats, truth be told.
Edited by NovemEnuma, Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:16 pm.
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SilverZhongda
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Troy
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:48 pm
So, could we have a Shu stage list so far please :wave: ?
Here's what I have, it's not at all complete..

???-Liu Bei

Yellow Turban-Liu Bei

Campaign vs Dong Zhuo (guy quit at the start I assume it's this map)- Guan Yu


**** LOTS OF STAGES MISSING IN THE MIDDLE ****

???- Zhuge Liang

Mt. Jing Dun- Huang Zhong

Fan Castle Pt1.- Guan Yu

Fan Castle Pt2.- Guan Suo.
Yellow Turban has two parts, and both of them are Liu Bei. Much like Xiahou Dun on Wei.

As the unknown Zhuge Liang battle, i assume its Cheng Du.
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The Outsider
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Troy
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:48 pm
So, could we have a Shu stage list so far please :wave: ?
Here's what I have, it's not at all complete..

???-Liu Bei

Yellow Turban-Liu Bei

Campaign vs Dong Zhuo (guy quit at the start I assume it's this map)- Guan Yu


**** LOTS OF STAGES MISSING IN THE MIDDLE ****

???- Zhuge Liang

Mt. Jing Dun- Huang Zhong

Fan Castle Pt1.- Guan Yu

Fan Castle Pt2.- Guan Suo.
Thank you :) . Really want the final list, then we can official say who needs some good time in Conquest.
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Liu Bei 7
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Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Not the whole historical V fictional argument again :facepalm: . The game is more based on ROTK novel than either, so the argument can end right here. It's not good to see characters more deserving get shafted, but because Suo and Sanniang are in the book and people just love couples (apparently), so they were added.
I'm not getting involved in this dispute. But just for the record, Bao is not in the book. And Guan Suo wasn't originally in the book either.
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Kurokawa_Tadayoshi
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Oh this is just great!

So instead of logical choices, Koei resorts to overhyping certain characters?
I do like Dun a lot, don't be mistaken, but I don't want him to hug all the limelight.
Fan Castle has always been a battle of Guan Yu vs Cao Ren (and Lu Meng sorta).
So why would you have Xiahou Dun fight this battle for Wei?

And Xu Huang is left out yet again? Damn, I can smell the Wei hate and Shu love.
6th part and still only 3 of the 5 Wei Generals and out of them only 2 appearantly
have a significant role to play.....

While I expect that all the Tiger Generals will be in Kingdom Mode....

And Guan Suo instead of Guan Ping? Seriously, buzz off with that fictional piece of
crap!
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Shadowclaimer
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General who Pacifies the Fools
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Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:09 pm
Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Not the whole historical V fictional argument again :facepalm: . The game is more based on ROTK novel than either, so the argument can end right here. It's not good to see characters more deserving get shafted, but because Suo and Sanniang are in the book and people just love couples (apparently), so they were added.
I'm not getting involved in this dispute. But just for the record, Bao is not in the book. And Guan Suo wasn't originally in the book either.
It may be fiction, but ROTK even has its large portion of fiction as well, and I mean LARGE.

I'm not happy with Bao/Suo but now that they're in no point to waste resources and cut them. I just hope this is the end of them adding in fictional non-ROTK characters.
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Xiuzhao
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Koei better have some really big things planned for DLC because Kingdom Mode is shaping up to be complete horse****.
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The Outsider
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The Demon's Rival
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Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:09 pm
Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Not the whole historical V fictional argument again :facepalm: . The game is more based on ROTK novel than either, so the argument can end right here. It's not good to see characters more deserving get shafted, but because Suo and Sanniang are in the book and people just love couples (apparently), so they were added.
I'm not getting involved in this dispute. But just for the record, Bao is not in the book. And Guan Suo wasn't originally in the book either.
I thought that before I wrote it :unsure: , but still, you get the idea. I don't think Zhang He wore butterfly wings either but you'll have to ask Luo Guanzhong :lol: . Still, the novel is their main focus, the reason why Zhu Ran isn't added to the series in because he'd be gone straight after Yi Ling, historically he lived much longer but in the book he died almost straight after.
Edited by The Outsider, Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:15 pm.
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Troy
Officer
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Shadowclaimer
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:10 pm
Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:09 pm
Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Not the whole historical V fictional argument again :facepalm: . The game is more based on ROTK novel than either, so the argument can end right here. It's not good to see characters more deserving get shafted, but because Suo and Sanniang are in the book and people just love couples (apparently), so they were added.
I'm not getting involved in this dispute. But just for the record, Bao is not in the book. And Guan Suo wasn't originally in the book either.
It may be fiction, but ROTK even has its large portion of fiction as well, and I mean LARGE.

I'm not happy with Bao/Suo but now that they're in no point to waste resources and cut them. I just hope this is the end of them adding in fictional non-ROTK characters.
Well, I know there's tons of complaints about those two, but it seems fairly obvious Koei is trying to reach certain markets with these two characters as they were advertised prominently and Bao is put up front in a lot of the marketing stuff they've done. I get why people are upset about it, but we can't really be surprised they're getting roles in the game they probably shouldn't be given just based on how much they advertised the two characters.
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Yunchan
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Tiger General
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SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:26 pm
Yunchan
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:22 pm
SilentNinja
Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:18 pm
Again, we argued earlier that Xu Huang and Cao Ren should have taken the two parts of Fancheng, but it's really Xiahou Dun settling his fued with Guan Yu again.
ok, but again, in the interpretation of my former post, if they made the story modes to "tell a story" in a movie like way, it would make little sense to have a "movie" about Dun and Cao Cao and not end it with Dun and Cao Cao and whatever either's greatest nemesis was (and Guan Yu fits that role perfectly). sure it may be "more correct" to do that stage with the people who actually were involved, but wouldn't that leave the whole Wei plot unfulfilled?
We're missing Cao Pi(The usurper). This doesn't completely fulfill Wei plot. Is this all of Wei story? Fancheng and not Wei versions of Jie Ting, Wu Zhang Plains, and Sima Yi's rebellion?
You're missing my point: it does not matter where and how it should end in history, it matters how and when they decide their little "movie" ends. It's the same deal as Wu and what appears to be the theme of the "core" Sun family: Sun Jian to Sun Ce to Sun Quan with SSX thrown in, the end, even if they were around much longer as Wu.
This is why I expect Shu to be about the three brothers and Kongming/Liu Bei's legacy, end with Wu Zhang even if they were around longer. Loose ends will probably be resolved in Jin's story mode for all 3 kingdoms, and there will be gaps in between.
Personally, I would almost be in favor of having a story mode with even less playable characters, but with being able to select from a small pool from the very beginning, sort of like DW4 so you could always play as the same one - however this would have a) gotten them murdered by fans even more b) lead to the same absurd results as in DW4 with Sun Jian at Yi Ling.

If you analyze the situation you will understand the possible logical steps:

Starting point:
Must do: need new characters or fans will complain, cannot axe previous characters or fans will complain, need to revert some of the weapons changes for DW6 because fans complained (rightfully, I would say), need to add Jin, need to get new fans onboard
Cannot do: 62 musou modes would've been a ridiculous amount of stages, with even more repetition of stages and fractured storyline, incomprehensible for non-fans -> need to make "kingdom wide story modes";
Cannot do: kingdom musou modes where you get to play as each and every one of the 62 characters and have them appear in cutscenes too: would have been either terminally silly and gotten them slaughtered (name me 1 sane person who would have kingdom mode with 20 minutes gameplay for each character, in place of anything else), or have 50 hour long kingdom modes with invented stages as there would not be enough to fill that much time.
Solution: focus on few characters in story and gameplay to give consistency and possibly cinematic feel, throw the rest in conquest mode or in kingdom mode as cameos, opponents, and so on. Possibly not perfect solution, but an understandable one. Note that while you complain Xu Huang and Cao Ren for Fan castle, others will go mental about X character in Y other battle, and so on. I guess since Koei loses either way they decided to go ahead with plan B: split gameplay modes and axed Free mode.
Cannot do: Balance movesets and design 62 unique weapons + 4th weapon and so on, half of them people complain about because they were different for the sake of it, but not fun -> in with the double weapon system: true, 35 weapons and movesets but 35x35 combinations.

I would also like to say that in either DW6, DW5 and SW3 I got so sick of replaying stages over and over with different characters, half of which I did not like, to unlock others I wanted, that when I finally did unlock those characters, I could not bring myself to play them on those same stages again for their own Musou mode, or to play the "free mode only " characters because I had frankly had enough of it. The biggest problem about Free mode only characters wasn't as much them not having a story mode (i.e. the same stages as someone else bar 1 different, but with different cutscenes), but in them not having anything, dumping me in the menu with Free mode and it was like "well, jump into a battle and start grinding". I'd rather have a working story mode that did not outstay its welcome, even if it has to cut corners, and a working "free mode" i.e. Conquest mode to delve into the characters I really want to play without being bogged down by story mode, or completely aimless free mode. Of course, if either new mode does not deliver at the end of the day, I'll be the first one to slap Koei silly until they're blue in the face.

Ps: this does not strictly answer to you, but to everyone else too, sorry if it may turn out long but it's harder to explain than it is to understand.
Edited by Yunchan, Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:17 pm.
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SilentNinja
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Deng Ai
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:10 pm
Oh this is just great!

So instead of logical choices, Koei resorts to overhyping certain characters?
I do like Dun a lot, don't be mistaken, but I don't want him to hug all the limelight.
Fan Castle has always been a battle of Guan Yu vs Cao Ren (and Lu Meng sorta).
So why would you have Xiahou Dun fight this battle for Wei?

And Xu Huang is left out yet again? Damn, I can smell the Wei hate and Shu love.
6th part and still only 3 of the 5 Wei Generals and out of them only 2 appearantly
have a significant role to play.....

While I expect that all the Tiger Generals will be in Kingdom Mode....

And Guan Suo instead of Guan Ping? Seriously, buzz off with that fictional piece of
crap!
It wasn't that...they went with the Guan Yu/Xiahou Dun Drama again. Despite the fact that Xu Huang has more story on his friendship with Guan Yu than Yuanrang's jealousy.

You expect me , a shuist to see this as Shu love? That's atrocious x.x

EDIT: I don't care about Guan Suo compare to Ping, but at least he can fit the Yi Ling story. *Puts the Guan ping x Xing Cai fanclub sign*
Edited by SilentNinja, Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:19 pm.
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Uncle Vlad
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Quick question, was Dian Wei in Hu Lao Gate or whatever it's called now? As a NPC?
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The Outsider
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The Demon's Rival
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Troy
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:14 pm
Shadowclaimer
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:10 pm
Liu Bei 7
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:09 pm
Tigris solis orientis
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:06 pm
Not the whole historical V fictional argument again :facepalm: . The game is more based on ROTK novel than either, so the argument can end right here. It's not good to see characters more deserving get shafted, but because Suo and Sanniang are in the book and people just love couples (apparently), so they were added.
I'm not getting involved in this dispute. But just for the record, Bao is not in the book. And Guan Suo wasn't originally in the book either.
It may be fiction, but ROTK even has its large portion of fiction as well, and I mean LARGE.

I'm not happy with Bao/Suo but now that they're in no point to waste resources and cut them. I just hope this is the end of them adding in fictional non-ROTK characters.
Well, I know there's tons of complaints about those two, but it seems fairly obvious Koei is trying to reach certain markets with these two characters as they were advertised prominently and Bao is put up front in a lot of the marketing stuff they've done. I get why people are upset about it, but we can't really be surprised they're getting roles in the game they probably shouldn't be given just based on how much they advertised the two characters.
I've never really understood why Bao and Suo have been placed at the top of their marketing scheme, it's a mystery. Do those guys NOT do surveys? Bao was the first released Shu character and Suo was the last, it's stupid. I haven't met one person yet who actually even likes them, I'd go as far to say they're "universally despised", much like Nikki and Paolo from Lost :lol: .

@Shadowclaimer I agree with you there, originally I wanted them out, now I'll keep them, but no more in the future please.
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SilentNinja
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Dian Wei dude
Wed Mar 9, 2011 8:18 pm
Quick question, was Dian Wei in Hu Lao Gate or whatever it's called now? As a NPC?
Yeah, he's a NPC in Hu Lao Gate.
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AdawgDaFAB
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There are only 15 characters with 3 Legend mode stages (the rest are 2 stages) but I wager to guess many of those who get snubbed in Kingdom will be amongst those 15.

Also, I can confirm that the character portraits do not change with alt outfits. I am using Sun Jian in his sweet black hair, yellow / black outfit but his portrait is still white haired Old Man Jian.
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Shadowclaimer
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And as bothered as I am about the Kingdom Mode mishap with characters, its annoying to see people write it off so easily, but its also annoying to see people not care whatsoever. Koei was aiming for historical accuracy with this title, and a cinematic experience, they really really missed the mark on accuracy by ignoring some major achievements of characters.

Also its really easy to fit the entire roster of a faction into 25 missions at least once, there's plenty of slots for all of them. Xu Huang/Cao Ren should've gotten Fan Castle easily though, that's just.. that one makes no sense for them to neglect, it fits, it works, it wouldn't be a stretch, but instead they blew it off.

It just doesn't make sense, the story doesn't get advanced at all by throwing Xiahou Dun in there for both parts. You'd broaden Wei a lot more by implementing two of their major players.
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