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Dynasty Warriors 7 [v5] (SPOILERS); SPOILERS BEWARE! GAMEPLAY VIDEOS/INFO INSIDE!
Topic Started: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm (735,297 Views)
Gaz
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He Qi's Homeboy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Wait, it's not even a siege? The hell? :huh: I hope it's one of Cao Ren's Legend Stages at least!
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Rydain
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Could be worse, I suppose
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Gaz
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:18 am
Wait, it's not even a siege? The hell? :huh: I hope it's one of Cao Ren's Legend Stages at least!
No, it's not. :facepalm: It was extra disappointing because DW6 did sieges especially well, with engineers setting up ladders and a variety of equipment. According to someone in the complaint thread who played the whole game, all you get in DW7 is an occasional giant catapult or similar piece of machinery that you can jump on to blow up a designated target, and possibly some peons if you wish. And there's none of that at Nanjun, either.
Edited by Rydain, Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:23 am.
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WhiteHorseRide
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Right General
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Bah. It always seems to be 2 steps forward and 1.5 steps (at least) back for Koei.
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Xiuzhao
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----
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zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:12 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:01 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:58 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:49 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:28 am

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
How is it that none of what you say here can be found in the SGZ biographies of Zhou Yu, Cao Ren, or Guan Yu or any of Rafe's relevant works?
Uh, maybe you should read Chen Shou's record of the three Kingdom (三国志)
since, you know, it's Chinese history?
:facepalm: SGZ = San Guo Zhi = Records of the Three Kingdoms
read sun quan's biography
or if you can read chinese, check out this post
it has all the reference from SGZ
Here's an excerpt, the encoding might be messed up
备、瑜等复追至南郡,曹公遂北还,留曹仁、徐晃於江陵,使乐进守襄阳。时甘宁在夷陵,为仁党所围,用吕蒙计,留凌统以拒仁,以其半救宁,军以胜反。…………十四年,瑜、仁相守岁馀,所杀伤甚众。仁委城走。
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=922843925
Well I can't read Chinese and I've only just found a biography for Sun Quan in English. It doesn't mention anything about Cao Ren's forces being inferior, nor does it mention anything about Guan Yu's participation.

To quote Sun Quan's SGZ:
"In the 14th year [209], Zhou Yu and Cao Ren had been guarding for over a year and very many had been killed and injured. Cao Ren gave up the city and fled."

That sounds like a victory to me.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
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Rydain
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:03 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:52 am
Guan Yu is better than Zhang Fei
And really, he was the best Shu general (Zhuge Liang did not start commanding army until Liu Bei died), and at Fan Castle, He took on almost an entire Wei and still almost won, if not for Wu...
Guan Yu was only able to eliminate Yu Jin and Pang De's armies because a natural disaster flooded them all out. Despite being flooded, isolated, and severely outnumbered (10,000 vs. 40,000+ troops), Cao Ren held Guan Yu off for 3 months until Xu Huang was able to reinforce him for a counterattack. I don't see how this counts as a near-win for Guan Yu due to superior generalship.

Furthermore, Wu had little to do with Wei's success at Fan. If anything, Lu Meng's ruse caused Guan Yu to divert more men to the Fan siege.

@Gaz - Cao Ren is my favorite 3K historical personality, and I agree that he was one of the era's best. :cool: I respect Xiahou Yuan and Zhang Fei as well, though I haven't yet researched their records in as much detail.
Cao Ren is a good general
but how did he gets surrounded at Fan Castle in the first place?
And how did Guan Yu went all the way from Jiang Liang to Xiang Yang (several hundred miles apart)?
There's only one answer, from the skirmishes between 214 to 219, Guan Yu had defeated Cao Ren and greatly expanded Shu Influence in Jing, to the point of launching a full invasion and surround Cao Ren at Fan
and while the flooding is a bit lucky, how come only Yu Jin's army is flooded while Guan Yu's army is left intact and even can attack Yu Jin?luck is important, but so does ability.
About Guan Yu's force, we can be certain that the Whole Shu army has around 150,000 maximum...and at most 40,000-50,000 at Jing, let's assume 50,000
initially, Guan Yu left at least 20,000 at Jing, which left him with around 30,000 men for the invasion. Cao Ren, initially, should have at least 20,000-30,000 at Xiang Yang and Fan Castle, and Yu Jin's force consist of seven armies, and at least 30,000 men. that alone is twice of Guan Yu's force, yet Guan Yu annihilated Yu Jin's army and surrounded Cao Ren to the point that he himself almost retreated, and scared Cao Cao into almost moving capital.
In the end, Wei basically send everyone to rescue Fan, Xu Huang was the first wave, with 30,000 men, Xiahou Dun second, with 26 armies (at least 50,000), and Zhang Liao the third wave.
And unlike what you said, Wu basically won the battle for Wei: while Guan Yu was defeated by Xu Huang, it was a small defeat (Guan Yu only send in 5,000 men, and retreated with force intact). Wu's sneak attack on Jing forced Guan Yu to abandon the attack.
And think about this, instead of invading Jing, Wu could have attacked He Fei! as zhang Liao and Xiahou Dun had taken most of the Wei troops from there on way to Fan.
Yet, they attacked Jing, and set the fate of three kingdoms...
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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My favorite triple tag team of the three kingdoms is Lu Meng-Cao Ren-Xu Huang, to be honest. By their powers combined (and Lu Xun's), they showed the God of War who's boss.

Was hoping to see an epic triad in DW7, but I guess I'll count my lucky stars that at least ONE of the major players at Fan Castle got their stage. Lu Meng made it to the party- I guess Ren's and Huang's got lost in transit or something.
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zhuoran92
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:27 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:12 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:01 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:58 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:49 am

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
Uh, maybe you should read Chen Shou's record of the three Kingdom (三国志)
since, you know, it's Chinese history?
:facepalm: SGZ = San Guo Zhi = Records of the Three Kingdoms
read sun quan's biography
or if you can read chinese, check out this post
it has all the reference from SGZ
Here's an excerpt, the encoding might be messed up
备、瑜等复追至南郡,曹公遂北还,留曹仁、徐晃於江陵,使乐进守襄阳。时甘宁在夷陵,为仁党所围,用吕蒙计,留凌统以拒仁,以其半救宁,军以胜反。…………十四年,瑜、仁相守岁馀,所杀伤甚众。仁委城走。
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=922843925
Well I can't read Chinese and I've only just found a biography for Sun Quan in English. It doesn't mention anything about Cao Ren's forces being inferior, nor does it mention anything about Guan Yu's participation.

To quote Sun Quan's SGZ:
"In the 14th year [209], Zhou Yu and Cao Ren had been guarding for over a year and very many had been killed and injured. Cao Ren gave up the city and fled."

That sounds like a victory to me.
It's a pyrrhic victory...and in Cao Ren's biography, you can infer that the wei army is much inferior in number
as when wu's vanguard (several thousand) arrived, and Niu jIn's 300 was surrounded, Chen Jiao said to Cao Ren:"the enemy number is too strong, can't be matched, instead of letting you go into danger, let's just give up those few hundred men." (矫等共援持之。谓仁曰:“贼众盛,不可当也。假使弃数百人何苦,而将军以身赴之!”)
and for Guan Yu's involvement, you have to check Li Tong's biography
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Reverie
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Realist
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
All I can say is DW 7 is a good game but far as quality DW 5 is the go to game lol. I don't think they took any steps back in DW 5, actually hell they keep improving IMO.


I found out Tong Gate is in Xiahou Dun's Story Mode in DW 7, was it played out good? Like did we see any good drama, I'm just curious?
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BuddHA0991
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Ace of Spades
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Not to complain but this topic is always going back and forth between acceptance and complaining.

Oh and, I think the dlc is on the disk btw
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
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BuddHA0991
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:43 am
Not to complain but this topic is always going back and forth between acceptance and complaining.

Oh and, I think the dlc is on the disk btw
Which ones, all of them or just the first set of them? So long as they don't request a ridiculous price for buying the code to use them, I'm fine with that. But I have a feeling some will rage.
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Daikyō
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I'm ready to serve you all

Sum Gai
Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:40 pm
Don't know if anyone's posted this yet, but this person seems to be working on vids showcasing the character's EX and musou attacks.

Needless to say, Major Spoilers ahoy:

Wei:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVtLaz7hKH0

Jin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXGPNySmus

That's all so far.
thank you for the link :D
really love Cai Wen's ex and Xu Zhu's musou attack :hehe:
but no love for Wu? rrr,, but that's okay so i can explore their musou and ex by myself :hehe:
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Reverie
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Realist
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ChibiGingi
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:46 am
BuddHA0991
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:43 am

Oh and, I think the dlc is on the disk btw
Which ones, all of them or just the first set of them? So long as they don't request a ridiculous price for buying the code to use them, I'm fine with that. But I have a feeling some will rage.
Well I'd be willing to put in extra 50 dollars just to complete DW 7 lol. Though I'd be surprise if people rage about DLC being a dollar or two I mean they cant go wrong with DLC Packs if they do that.
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ChibiGingi
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Booyaka, Booyaka
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Reverie
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:53 am
ChibiGingi
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:46 am
BuddHA0991
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:43 am

Oh and, I think the dlc is on the disk btw
Which ones, all of them or just the first set of them? So long as they don't request a ridiculous price for buying the code to use them, I'm fine with that. But I have a feeling some will rage.
Well I'd be willing to put in extra 50 dollars just to complete DW 7 lol. Though I'd be surprise if people rage about DLC being a dollar or two I mean they cant go wrong with DLC Packs if they do that.
For me, it'd depend on how many weapons will be included in the bundle and the price of it. A dollar a weapon isn't TOO bad, but I would rather they'd be sold in bundles... two dollars for 3-5 weapons? I wouldn't object to that. Anything more than two dollars per single weapon, eh... that'd bug me a little.
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Xiuzhao
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----
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zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:35 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:27 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:12 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:01 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:58 am

Quoting limited to 5 levels deep
:facepalm: SGZ = San Guo Zhi = Records of the Three Kingdoms
read sun quan's biography
or if you can read chinese, check out this post
it has all the reference from SGZ
Here's an excerpt, the encoding might be messed up
备、瑜等复追至南郡,曹公遂北还,留曹仁、徐晃於江陵,使乐进守襄阳。时甘宁在夷陵,为仁党所围,用吕蒙计,留凌统以拒仁,以其半救宁,军以胜反。…………十四年,瑜、仁相守岁馀,所杀伤甚众。仁委城走。
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=922843925
Well I can't read Chinese and I've only just found a biography for Sun Quan in English. It doesn't mention anything about Cao Ren's forces being inferior, nor does it mention anything about Guan Yu's participation.

To quote Sun Quan's SGZ:
"In the 14th year [209], Zhou Yu and Cao Ren had been guarding for over a year and very many had been killed and injured. Cao Ren gave up the city and fled."

That sounds like a victory to me.
It's a pyrrhic victory...and in Cao Ren's biography, you can infer that the wei army is much inferior in number
as when wu's vanguard (several thousand) arrived, and Niu jIn's 300 was surrounded, Chen Jiao said to Cao Ren:"the enemy number is too strong, can't be matched, instead of letting you go into danger, let's just give up those few hundred men." (矫等共援持之。谓仁曰:“贼众盛,不可当也。假使弃数百人何苦,而将军以身赴之!”)
and for Guan Yu's involvement, you have to check Li Tong's biography
A pyrrhic victory is still a victory.

Just as Cao Ren's biography infers a small number of Wei troops, Gan Ning's bio clearly states that Cao Ren sent five or six thousand troops to beseige Gan Ning at Yiling. Taking into account that Cao Ren also had to contend with Zhou Yu, Lu Meng, and Ling Tong; that five or six thousand was likely less than half of his total troop count.

And as for Li Tong's bio, it does nothing to suggest Guan Yu cut Cao Ren's supply line; only that he had "been dispatched to make a secret attack from a northern path."
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Yang Xiu
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Court Jester of Wei
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Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:15 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:08 am
In a way, Zhou Yu is overrated
he's a great navy commander, but his inability to conquer Nan Jun shows that he's not a great army general
What? Zhou Yu won the battle of Nanjun. He is the only major Three Kingdoms officer to have never lost a battle.
Jia Xu never lost a battle either... Li Dian as well I think... but I think Li Dian just gave the best advice that no one ever listened to. Might be others as well. Zhang Liao? Can't remember.
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Bamboo
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*hail hydra*
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Baha, ain't one of you the guys who thought that Xu Huang was a complete coward, and Guan Yu was the hand of God? lol

Anyway, yeah, I was really disappointed that Nanjun was dirt as a battle this installment. Cao Ren barely has any role, there's no rescue of Niu Jin, Gan Ning is the playable for the battle getting Hefei right after (instead of someone much preferable, i.e. Lu Meng, Zhou Yu, Ling Tong, even), among other reasons.

Also, I'm quite pleased the dub has 'combined' place names. There's no more Guan Du, Luo Yang, or any of that, but instead Guandu, Luoyang, and the like. It was never a huge problem, but it's mainly aesthetic.

Not pleased that they still have the ugly font for the character's name next to their lifebars. :whistle:

EDIT: BTW - Guo Jia is hella overrated. Good night.
Edited by Bamboo, Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:07 am.
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MitsunariWrath
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Officer
[ *  * ]
On terms of characters....

Guan Yu, Kongming, and Liu Bei have statues in China....

Xu Huang or Zhang Liao doesnt.....Im sure hundreds of years ago when they were built they didnt have the game around so I would still consider them very important to the Chinese
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BuddHA0991
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Ace of Spades
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Bamboo
Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:06 am
Baha, ain't one of you the guys who thought that Xu Huang was a complete coward, and Guan Yu was the hand of God? lol

Anyway, yeah, I was really disappointed that Nanjun was dirt as a battle this installment. Cao Ren barely has any role, there's no rescue of Niu Jin, Gan Ning is the playable for the battle getting Hefei right after (instead of someone much preferable, i.e. Lu Meng, Zhou Yu, Ling Tong, even), among other reasons.

Also, I'm quite pleased the dub has 'combined' place names. There's no more Guan Du, Luo Yang, or any of that, but instead Guandu, Luoyang, and the like. It was never a huge problem, but it's mainly aesthetic.

Not pleased that they still have the ugly font for the character's name next to their lifebars. :whistle:

EDIT: BTW - Guo Jia is hella overrated. Good night.
thanks to the dub Guandu doesnt look right to me, Guan Du is better...oh well...
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Anyone that understands warfare knows that it's much easier to defend with little than to attack with little. Not that I'm saying Cao Ren was a bad General but it makes sense that even outnumbered he, with his skill, could hold out as long as he could despite knowing that eventually Zhou Yu would dislodged his entrenched forces.
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Xiuzhao
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----
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Sluggo
Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:05 am
Xiuzhao
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:15 am
zhuoran92
Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:08 am
In a way, Zhou Yu is overrated
he's a great navy commander, but his inability to conquer Nan Jun shows that he's not a great army general
What? Zhou Yu won the battle of Nanjun. He is the only major Three Kingdoms officer to have never lost a battle.
Jia Xu never lost a battle either... Li Dian as well I think... but I think Li Dian just gave the best advice that no one ever listened to. Might be others as well. Zhang Liao? Can't remember.
Jia Xu's "claim to fame" was that he never gave bad advice. You can't really say that he never lost a battle because he hardly if at all actually led troops into battle; instead advising those who did.

And after reading up on Li Dian he doesn't seem to have a defeat either. I never knew that. It seems Zhou Yu isn't in a class of his own anymore.
Edited by Xiuzhao, Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:27 am.
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I do think Guan Yu made a big mistake when he choose to continue the seige. Like Sun Tzu said, you should avoid that if possible. He also tried to do everything everywhere. He failed cahpter 6 weak points and strong. (I actually do have the book with me.)

I was impressed by Jia Xu's second musou. I couldn't even see what he did he did it so fast. Cao Ren has did an awesome musou on Liu Shan.(Liu shan is turning out to be a punching bag.)
Edited by Paragon of Light, Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:29 am.
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Rydain
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Could be worse, I suppose
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
ChibiGingi
Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:31 am
My favorite triple tag team of the three kingdoms is Lu Meng-Cao Ren-Xu Huang, to be honest. By their powers combined (and Lu Xun's), they showed the God of War who's boss.

Was hoping to see an epic triad in DW7, but I guess I'll count my lucky stars that at least ONE of the major players at Fan Castle got their stage. Lu Meng made it to the party- I guess Ren's and Huang's got lost in transit or something.
Word to that. I haven't seen all the multi-kingdom alliance campaigns, so perhaps some are done better, but I was bummed out at the lack of Wei/Wu interaction at Fan. The Wei side really ought to have focused on the flood, and the OH $!@# reaction thereto, whereas the Wu side would have Lu Meng and pals fighting through a different map in part 1 to reach the fortress for some awesome collaboration in part 2. That way, we'd still have the per-kingdom interactions, and the collaborative conversations wouldn't get redundant.

Fan Castle concept for Wei and Wu

BTW, glad you liked my sig spoiler. Laugh all you want - that's what it's there for. :D
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Kleiner Drache
Elite Soldier
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i am sorry for going off topic but i want to know when Dynasty Warriors 7 comes out in Europe
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JayHawk
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I fight for JUSTICE!!!!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Kleiner Drache
Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:40 am
i am sorry for going off topic but i want to know when Dynasty Warriors 7 comes out in Europe
April 1st I believe, but next time just look at the information on the main site. All the info you'll need is there. Thanks.
Edited by JayHawk, Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:44 am.
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Yuqi
Han's Unifier
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Kleiner Drache
Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:40 am
i am sorry for going off topic but i want to know when Dynasty Warriors 7 comes out in Europe
well so far its still offically the first of april, but according to some of the online game stores it has been delayed to the 8th. As for Au its still the 31st/1st of april.
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