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| Dynasty Warriors 7 [v5] (SPOILERS); SPOILERS BEWARE! GAMEPLAY VIDEOS/INFO INSIDE! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm (735,274 Views) | |
| saner | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:27 pm Post #10626 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Finally someone that did the math. Yes expecting everyone in cutscenes is asking for too much. Koei already worked their asses off barely managing to include all the content and features DW7 already has, unlike other companies that cut corners and have much less to offer (Marvel vs. Capcom 3, Devil May Cry 4, any Sengoku Basara, etc.) |
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| jaredx2 | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:37 pm Post #10627 |
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That Strategist Guy
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saner is right. We are lucky that Koei did what it did. We can't really have everyone with a cutscene or everyone have a unique moveset or all of that stuff when there are 62 characters. They could have made all of that stuff, but they would make it come out, like, 2 years from now. No one wants to wait that long, at least I don't. |
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| saner | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:41 pm Post #10628 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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ya, and they didn't recycle character models from DW6 as default models either. They put tons more work on this than most sequels these days that give minimal new stuff. If Team Ninja made this there would only be 1-4 playable characters and just a story campaign with a tacked on mission mode. Edited by saner, Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:41 pm.
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| Oreadia | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:45 pm Post #10629 |
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Beautiful and Grace are the most beautiful words from the planet
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When Saner said didn't recycle character models something came to my mind. There are DW6 costumes downnload but I noticed that they are all redone. E.g. Zhao Yun, his costume is not as SILVER as before, it is more darkish this time round. They really have worked hard this time. The game difficulty is great, I mean the trophies are obtainable by a rough gamer such as myself. I really gave high score to this game, may not be 10/10 but at least 9/10 Edited by Oreadia, Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:50 pm.
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| Deleted User | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:49 pm Post #10630 |
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OK, it's a good game, but you should stop making excuses for everything. Of course it is possible that all the characters may appear in a cutscene, of course they can all be playable at least once in the Story Mode. The excuse of "the cutscenes, it's nothing, it's the gameplay that counts" is false. All characters should shine at least once, everyone wants to see is favorite character appear at least in a cutscene. So please, do not say that it is not possible. |
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| saner | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:53 pm Post #10631 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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It's possible, but not without sacrificing something else. And characters shine brighter in the gameplay than they ever would in cutscenes. I'm not saying cutscenes are bad but they shouldn't take priority over their playability at least in a free mode or conquest mode. The worst scenario is if they ended up being UNPCs, now that would have killed sales and interest. People would see them in cutscene(s) but other than that, useless and total wasted potential. Edited by saner, Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:59 pm.
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| Deleted User | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:55 pm Post #10632 |
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It is your point of view, not the mine. I'd like my favorite characters may appear in cutscenes and have interesting dialogues with other characters. If only the gameplay count, delete all the Story Mode and kill the enemies in the rough. I like my games with a story, cutscenes and dialogues, for my part. |
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| Rydain | Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:56 pm Post #10633 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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Meaningful is whatever it takes to show the audience a sense of the character. This can be gotten across in group scenes because well-written conversation fleshes out all the characters involved. It could also be slipped into battles as brief yet effective displays of might. Those 67 characters might be an overwhelming cast within the same narrative. However, the game presents each in the context of their own kingdom, effectively reducing the size of a story's cast to ~15 characters - easily covered with a variety of group conversations and some moments of battlefield badassery. Furthermore, I don't see how that hypothetical 30 seconds apiece would be a problem. DW5 had character-specific moments of similar length scattered throughout its musou mode battles. DW7 could insert similar asides into the story battles, which would fit perfectly with the scripted structure and cinematic focus. I wouldn't compare the screen time priorities of ROTK and LOTR adaptations to Dynasty Warriors. Tom Bombadil was left out of the LOTR movies because he didn't fit into the writer's plans for the narrative, which is no different from other book-to-movie adaptations that omit scenes that don't translate well to film. ROTK has a slew of supporting officers, and any adaptation can reasonably expect to pick its own group thereof to focus on. Dynasty Warriors already has an established cast of characters. Those characters have fans who keep coming back to the series expecting to see more of their favorites. Overlooking the supporting cast does a disservice both to old fans and to new ones who shouldn't be expected to dig up a last-gen game to learn about those who have been tossed to the wayside. |
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| Bamboo | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:00 am Post #10634 |
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*hail hydra*
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lolwat Seriously, I don't think it's that hard to squeeze in screen time for everyone, especially for those that actually could have done something (i.e. Cao Ren, Xu Huang, Wei Yan, Ma Dai). Even for the minor characters in the game, it's not out of the way to just put in their CG model. Maybe SPOILER! insert Xiao Qiao by Zhou Yu's bedside as he passes. Might be veering off course a little, but giving Xiahou Dun stages he wasn't even a part of for no reason, avoiding the suitable warriors in the process, doesn't make much sense (Fan Castle). I hardly understand the last part. Wasn't the original debate about letting the playable characters have some screentime? Even if it's only for a single cutscene, or a few seconds. Don't know why people would complain about NPCs and people that may not even make an appearance not being featured. They're not playable for a reason. Personally I'm not asking for everyone to have a stage in Kingdom mode (maybe we'll see it in DW8, depending on how things go), just that they make an appearance of any amount of time. Otherwise, they're practically useless (Da Qiao). Also, not to be nitpicky, but DW7 only has 62 characters, IIRC. Had to get this quick post out of the way, won't be on until later. Sorry if it's totally irrelevant or such. |
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| saner | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:08 am Post #10635 |
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Supreme Warrior-Scholar
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Always easier said than done. DW5 only had about 48 characters DW7 has about 62 characters There are many ways kingdom/story mode could be designed better, but people should be grateful each character got their own Legend what if story, which is a better deal than some few seconds of cutscene screentime. It would be nice if everyone got screentime in kingdom/story mode, but dwelling on that subject will just cause you to miss out on the fun. |
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| TrueConquer | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:25 am Post #10636 |
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First Lieutenant
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Hey, does anyone know what some of the "What If/Legendary" stages are? |
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| jaredx2 | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:29 am Post #10637 |
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That Strategist Guy
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Yeah, good question. I kinda wonder about that but I figure that it's kind of self- explanatory. I think What If stages are like "What if this happened?" |
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| Rydain | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:33 am Post #10638 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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Yes, but couldn't KOEI at least brainstorm something for each battle-participating character to do? It doesn't have to be Citizen Kane in 30 seconds, but it could look characteristically cool or silly or angry or otherwise awesome. The point is that it would be an improvement over getting nothing but a few text lines here and there like some unfortunate people. Poor Xu Huang. ![]() From what I've seen of legend mode, I can't muster up too much gratitude. Stages seem to follow the same generic formula: Opening line from the playable character Encounter line from each enemy officer in turn You defeat the boss, and possibly everyone else as well The end Perhaps some mix it up a bit, but my overall complaint stands. No events, no cut scenes, (at least in some cases) no actual dialog. DW4:XL and DW5:XL made each legend stage feel like a different unique battle, with some form of intro and/or ending included as well. DW7's legends appear to have been put together in a simplistic level editor. They don't even include special troop models in the Nanman stages although we had those in the previous-gen games. I wouldn't expect a full blown individual stage for all 62 characters, but KOEI could have followed DW5:XL's precedent and had several characters take their own paths within the same battle. This would have made perfect sense for side stages and playable characters that didn't fit well into the kingdom story. Imagine Da and Xiao rescuing themselves in The Two Qiaos as Sun Ce and Zhou Yu show up late to the party. It could also solve the common complaint about not being able to play as the other side of kingdom mode battles that were only featured in one kingdom's story. Legend mode could have included a Yellow Turban counterattack, for instance, or a fully fledged Tong Gate for Ma Chao and Ma Dai.
Edited by Rydain, Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:34 am.
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| Sheng Dao | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:38 am Post #10639 |
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General
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I agree with Rydain, but he's fighting a losing battle. I definitely think DW7 is going to be great, but I also think it could be much greater. People are more willing to settle for less nowadays unfortunately. To me its common sense to believe that a company with many resources and funds could do way better, but to others thats a fantasy. To each his own. Again I'd like to state that I think the game will be great and add that it will probably be the best DW yet. I'm just being realistic. |
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| Frayling0 | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:41 am Post #10640 |
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Han's Unifier
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People are willing to settle for less nowadays because this is a completely different world. We're in a very different economic climate, where targets, pressures, and deadlines are paramount. 7 was always going to be a different game to say 4. I do wonder where the line is for fans. Even if all characters had featured in cut scenes, I quite realistically imagine people still whining on here "Da Qiao only got 20 seconds! Waaah!" No game is ever going to be perfect. This whole 'we don't have to settle for this' mentality won't get you anywhere. If that's the road you're going down, vote with your wallet - don't buy the blinkin' game! Edited by Frayling0, Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:43 am.
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| SazukeEX | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:51 am Post #10641 |
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
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Not to mention that if you're in America than you have a Recession, few open jobs, high unemployment, and the fact that we're spending billions in 3 wars concurrent wars right now. I can see why people are settling west over here in America. |
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| JustMax | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:59 am Post #10642 |
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Left General
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There will always be things lacking for some. It's a part of being human and living in a society where you can express yourself freely. I wholeheartedly agree with Rydain and from what I've gathered, this game has even less characters in cutscenes than previous gen DWs. It's kind of like every step forward is also a step backwards. IDK if it's Koei just milking us or just being incapable of keeping the stuff that worked and getting rid of the stuff that doesn't. But what I do know is that it is inexcusable to still be doing the same mistakes after 7 main titles and multiple add-ons and I think the excuses trying to justify this are uncalled for; but hey, at least they're still making some cool games ![]() I'm just bummed out that all the possibilities this game COULD HAVE HAD aren't there. Does anyone know if Koei were pressured for time? Let's hope the XL/Empires/Z version gives us what we're missing! Though only problem with this is we're losing more money XD Meh, another 40-or-so Euros isn't going to be too tough for me. |
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| Celestial | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:59 am Post #10643 |
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Love,hate, tragedy, and war.
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I agree with Rydain as well. Although two of my favorites got screen time I would have liked to see everyone get some as well. Seeing as DW5 gave everyone a cutscene we expect the next game to build upon that and continue with everyone having some screen time. Its not being to hard on koei when something is suppose to be there really. I'll still enjoy DW7 regardless of it but it still bothers me. @Fayling0- No Fayling, the Da Qiao fans would be happy if she had her 20 seconds of screen time and not lay forgotten with some others in kingdom mode. |
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| Reverie | Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:59 am Post #10644 |
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Realist
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I agree with this 100% What it looks like to me, they did which I feared was add so much with so little time, I'n my opinion. I think with many games only time is the issue everything else is really petty, it's like why did they get people all hype knowing dang well they weren't going to use all 62. I mean and yea we have dlc but idk I'd try to hook people from the gate and then give them a reason to hold on to the game. I still have DW 5 lol. I sold DW 6 I'n less than month. DW 5 was not flawless but it had more pros than cons. DW 7 idk it really has so many cons and it be the simple stuff too, like to me adding one more sword category wouldn't have hurt why is cao cao running around like xiahou dun lol like why that makes no sense mainly if they lead. Then it's like why make story mode linear when you use like 8 people and have like the chosen one to do everything let alone he is clone of someone who was used a lot I'n another kingdom, sima zhao, xiahou dun, sun quan pretty much have their own story mode. Then zhao yun and guan Yu have theirs. Then to be honest if conquest mode is the meat then that is some dry ass meat just to be real I mean I saw legend stage were there is barely any dialog. I'm not going to spoil it but he/she popes at least two lines and it never gave the bad azz feel. Though I'm being honest and I'm not going to beat around the bush, but I hope they enlighten me one day as to why did what they did because it could of been avoided. This is my honest view and I will say it's a good game, sure as hell nota 10/10. DW 8 or dlc or expansions can hopefully remedy this lol. |
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| Sheng Dao | Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:04 am Post #10645 |
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General
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I can definitely understand that. I'm not to the extreme where I refuse to buy the game. I'm just being realistic and understanding that a company with access to numerous creative resources and a large budget could do better. I just understand that some complaints aren't invalid. For example, I used to play world of warcraft (Thank goodness I quit) and I could never understand why a company with soo many millions of dollars (perhaps billions) would rehash and recycle all of the generic tedious content for us to play with. Then I noticed more companies starting to do it (ehem Call of Duty) and the only reason i can think of is greed. I'm like ok, these dudes have MILLIONS of dollars and access to talented creative young minds that they have employed...yet this raid boss has the same exact strategy as an older one, or the same skin, or the same skin with a helmet, or a dif color, ect. Like I said, I'm not with the extremists yet, I will buy the game and i appreciate the improvements. I do understand that settling for less will lead to a decline in quality though. I do notice the recession, but billion dollar companies like blizzard or activision aren't suffering much, yet they continue this growing greedy trend. |
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| Rydain | Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:19 am Post #10646 |
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Could be worse, I suppose
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This this this, and this is why I'm running my mouth. I'm glad to have some support from you and others. Thank you all. DW7 frustrates me because it throws out perfectly good precedent that could have been built on: DW6's sieges, base system, and best ever peon variety, DW5's touches of character-specific individualism, and the fully realized legend stages of DW4:XL and DW5:XL. Even with its clear improvements - combo-friendly weapon system, more cinematic cut scenes - it comes off as more of a recycled hodgepodge than a cohesive reboot. Bases are gone, but the DW6 maps still have obvious spaces for them. The Plug 'n Go legend stages apparently came from Gundam 3. The underlying battle engine seems SW3-ish, with specific marked objectives and no morale system. As I understand it, that would explain the lack of bases and DW6-style sieges as well. It looks like KOEI is trying to consolidate its game engine development to some extent. I'm not knocking well-conceived asset reuse, but it shouldn't lose the established character and promise of a long-running series. And the final product should feel cohesive and polished as a whole, especially if it is meant to redeem the flaws of its rushed predecessor. |
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| Blossercubbles | Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:27 am Post #10647 |
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First Lieutenant
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I appreciate everything that Koei is doing with this new game, but I also do not think it too much to have wanted each character have a showing in their own Kingdom. Before details were actually surfaced, I had assumed that the Kingdom mode would have roughly one stage per character, potentially important historic characters (Sun Quan, Zhuge Liang, etc) getting more time. I never once thought that characters with much less significance (Xing Cai, Zhen Ji, etc) would rival the men that did the actual work, but I also didn't think that they'd be dropped almost completely from their own kingdom. If Koei wanted an historical game, then many characters should never have been created. Fortunately for us, they were, and it's those characters, plus the caricatures of these historic heroes, that keep bringing me to the series. I like them all, and want to see what antics they come up with next. This isn't a series that revolves around fact. It expands it and, oft times, makes it mildly humorous. This omission in no way pushes the game off my radar, but it is a bit jarring. I haven't really played a Dynasty game since 5, though I do play Warriors Orochi 2 (mostly for my Samurai Warriors), and seeing everyone get something in Warriors Orochi (most just little cameos in the story, but every character was there, it seems) and then coming to this, where more than a few are completely left out is just strange. I simply expected the cast to interact with each other. It's very interesting to me, that Samurai Warriors is, for the first time, the place to go for a more standard Warriors experience, and Dynasty is shifting the tides. |
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| Reverie | Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:35 am Post #10648 |
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Realist
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Yea right now to me samurai warriors 3 biggest flaw was not being available for 360 and ps3 and not going over seas with 3Z. |
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| Red Blossom | Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:41 am Post #10649 |
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True Beauty
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Um, no, if Da Qiao got twenty seconds of screentime, I'd be very happy. I'd just be happy if they were actually acknowledged in Kingdom mode, but apparently that's asking for too much ... Anyway, hopefully by the time DW8 comes out they won't shaft so many characters again ... |
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| JustMax | Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:44 am Post #10650 |
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Left General
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Thank you for the good arguments
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It could also solve the common complaint about not being able to play as the other side of kingdom mode battles that were only featured in one kingdom's story. Legend mode could have included a Yellow Turban counterattack, for instance, or a fully fledged Tong Gate for Ma Chao and Ma Dai.


9:50 AM Jul 11