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Poll Only
Do you support the Jin in DW?
Yes! Keep them! 284 (86.6%)
No! Get rid of them! 21 (6.4%)
I never played it! 6 (1.8%)
OOOH A SHINY PENNY! (I don't know.) 17 (5.2%)
Total Votes: 328
If you support Jin, what do you want improved?
Their Story 27 (11.6%)
Their Characters 91 (39.1%)
Make them allied with Wei at first, then drift them to their own faction. 75 (32.2%)
Make Sima Yi more loyal. 5 (2.1%)
Nothing, they are fine as they are. 29 (12.4%)
Neither, I don't like the Jin. 6 (2.6%)
Total Votes: 233
Jin: Mistake or Not?; In your opinion, is it that bad?
Topic Started: Apr 16 2011, 07:33 PM (14,828 Views)
Belphie-kins
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With Strength and spirit!
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Warning to Jin lovers, you may be insulted.

Dynasty Warriors 7 is out! Yes, once again, we are back in kicking people hard in the arse! We love to play as Lu Bu and kill EVERYONE as usual, or people, like me, Max out characters like Sun Jian and make THEM become the new Lu Bu!

But there is one problem with this game...

KOEI released a new playable faction called the "Jin", which is lead by Sima Yi.

Okay, stop there.

First, WHY THE HELL, did you decided to make Sima Yi the leader of his own faction? That makes absolutely no sense. You already made Sima Yi sound like a bad guy, when in reality, he was actually a loyal guy.

Second, the Jin NEVER EXISTED until Wei took over Wu. The last Cao was killed by a different Sima, not Yi. So Sima Yi never killed Cao Cao and called the land his own.

Third, not saying I hate the characters, I just hate how they made them sound so powerful at that time. I mean, the battles make no sense now.

So my suggestion? NEVER EVER EVER, continue with the Jin in DW8. PLEASE, do not make them in that installment, and just make them some bonus characters or something. Move Sima Yi back to Wei, hell, why not you just move ALL the characters to Wei, then once we progress, THEN you can unlock Jin?

What do you think? You think this was a great idea to add the Jin? Or you think this faction fails?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NOTE: My opinion has changed for Jin. I fully support this faction now. Anything that is on the original post is now invalid.

But still, please keep posting. I am not asking for a lock. I want to hear people's opinions.
Edited by Belphie-kins, Oct 31 2012, 05:43 AM.
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Frayling0
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Han's Unifier
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You're entitled to make your own thread, but you've already posted something similar in 2 other threads - and ignored the replies. So Sima Yi was 'actually a loyal guy' was he? Nice to know you were around during the Three Kingdoms Period. Go read my reply in the complaints thread and just have a think about your argument.
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Belphie-kins
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With Strength and spirit!
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Frayling0
Apr 16 2011, 07:40 PM
You're entitled to make your own thread, but you've already posted something similar in 2 other threads - and ignored the replies. So Sima Yi was 'actually a loyal guy' was he? Nice to know you were around during the Three Kingdoms Period. Go read my reply in the complaints thread and just have a think about your argument.
I did? Omg...

I didn't see... I'm sorry. -_- I haven't been paying attention.

MOD LOCK THIS TOPIC OR DELETE IT.
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Baku666
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the Jin faction is fine Sima Yi is fine as the founder i see nothing wrong with it really this rant/poll is pointless
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Benzod
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Average Member Guy
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Quote:
 
Second, the Jin NEVER EXISTED until Wei took over Wu and Shu. The last Cao was killed by a different Sima, not Yi. So Sima Yi never killed Cao Cao and called the land his own.
Theres alot wrong with this paragraph.

Firstly, Wei never conquered Wu. Jin did. Jin was formed shortly after the fall of Shu, and the went on to conquer Wu and unite the land.

And where in this game does Sima Yi kill Cao Cao or name the land his own. You sure that's not DW6 your thinking of?

Jin's in the game. Deal with it. Most of us enjoy the fact that there's a who new element to the story that hasn't been included before.
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Simo
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Not at all a mistake. As Benzod said, Wei did not conquer Wu, Jin did. Jin unified China and brought an end to the Three Kingdoms era.

They also add a new dimension to the game as well in my opinion. More battles and proper closure to the story that wasn't present in the previous games. (By that I mean ending where the Three Kingdoms properly ended, as opposed to just ending at Wu Zhang Plains).
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dancingswan
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나 같은 애 첨 봤대

The addition of Jin is good one, but it technically isn't Jin as you all know. Just late Wei.

In DW7, it is more of the laying of the foundation that Jin was built on. Which I actually kind of like.
They even give the epilogue of what happens, and how Sima Yan takes over.
So no, Jin should, and most likely will be returning in any of the future entries of the series. :mellow:

Jin's only problem is they need some better characters. :/
But that's an entire different story.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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I like and support the addition of Jin.

Sima Yi's position in this game I suppose is open for interpretation, but I don't think he was portrayed as evil. In fact, he seemed so supportive of Wei's success, that every time he overthrew an emperor, he replaced him with another Cao. Unlike in DW6 where they did portray Sima Yi as a traitor, in DW7 he was very much portrayed as a loyalist, despite his methods being a little...questionable.

Jin conquered Wu, not Shu. etc...this has been said already.

My only issue with Jin is character choice, and even then I can deal with it EXCEPT for Xiahou Ba. They really need to move him to Wei, not so much Shu...while I get he did eventually join Shu, I think he can serve Wei better in terms of Story, and Shu would only get him towards the later era battles, so they could just make him an NPC for Shu's story.

Jin does add a new dimension to the game, giving us a sense of closure we've never got in a Dynasty Warriors game...like ever. Sure they have always had fictional endings following Wu Zhang Plains/He Fei Castle/Yi Ling in the past...but they were so generic and sloppy. DW7 is a real, cinematic, solid ending.

Sima Yi, despite not founding Jin, pretty much laid the groundwork for his children and grandchildren to found Jin for themselves. It might not have been his intention, but similar to how Sun Jian brought prominence to the Sun Family, Sun Ce conquered the territories, and Sun Quan built the Empire...that's kinda how I see the Sima Clan working.

Besides...with Jin in the game, it make far more sense for Sima Yi to be there than on Wei. You don't see Sun Jian on the Others...he wasn't even alive when Wu was established, but yet he is there and often recognized as the King of Wu, if Quan isn't.

So yeah...that's my two cents. Keep Jin.
Edited by Mr. Kamikaze, Apr 16 2011, 08:33 PM.
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Shadowclaimer
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General who Pacifies the Fools
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Actually under that assumption they should remove Cao Cao, Sun Jian, and Sun Ce from Wei/Wu because they weren't around when it was founded. Oh wait, they helped establish those factions and set the groundwork for their successors to build them.

Sima Yi did the same thing, through him and his sons the Sima Clan gained major prominence and power over Wei and that allowed his grandson, Sima Yan, to found Jin.

If you say Sima Yi doesn't work for Jin, you're saying Cao Cao doesn't work for Wei and Sun Jian/Sun Ce don't work for Wu.
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Liu Bei 7
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Emperor's Retainer
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Is Tiger King saying they should remove the later era all together, or just saying that Jin should be merged with Wei and not two separate kingdoms. I didn't fully understand before the game's release why they were making them different factions, but now I understand. The internal strife with the different Cao emperors during the Jin campaign makes it clear why they are different and I would like for them to remain in the game.
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ChibiGingi
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How can I sneeze if I have no nose?
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Liu Bei 7
Apr 16 2011, 08:44 PM
Is Tiger King saying they should remove the later era all together, or just saying that Jin should be merged with Wei and not two separate kingdoms. I didn't fully understand before the game's release why they were making them different factions, but now I understand. The internal strife with the different Cao emperors during the Jin campaign makes it clear why they are different and I would like for them to remain in the game.
This. I went into this game with some bitterness and a large stick up my butt about their inclusion, but after getting through the better part of their story (haven't finished, will do so tonight), my overall opinion of them as a kingdom has changed.

I wouldn't have put Xiahou Bieber with them, but regardless, I wouldn't mind Koei keeping them around for the next game. Adding more actual Jin officers in the next round should be fine...
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Noah
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Roll over & Die!
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most of the people here said what i want so im just gonna say that Jin is the best addition on DW7 imo
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GuardianAlexio
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I'm basically just going to repeat what others have posted in that I do welcome Jin's addition and hope it continues to get expanded upon. And I'm fine with Sima Yi as the founder of Jin, doesn't bother me in the slightest. Yeah, I may have some issues with some of the character choices for the Jin roster and there is kinda a gray area going forward between determining characters that might fit better in Late-Wei instead of Jin.

But overall going into the next games, give us some more Jin-Proper characters, a couple Late-Wu people and I'll be happy with their growth.
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Paragon of Light
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The Comeback King
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Like people have said, the main problem with "Jin" is the character choice and I felt I was playing late era wei, though they are welcomed in how they finally expanded the timeline. Sima Yi as the founder makes sense, even if he had real intentions of doing so (we'll never know the full story at why Sima Yi rebelled for either ambition loyalty revenge all of them or none at all). That said, the characters who don't belong on Jin are Guo Huai and Xiahou Ba(Ba belongs on shu). Get Yang Hu, Jia Chong, Du Yu, Wen Yang, Wang Jun, Sima Yan and for late era wu Lu Kang, Sun Hao, Zhuge Ke, and Zhang Ti(debateable) we have jin right there.
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bjabjabja
General
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I welcome Jin, but there addition in 7 is rough. Their story felt uninspired and repetitive while the characters really don't make sense. One dies far too early in Jin's sotry (Guo Huai) and three turn on the Sima clan (Xiahou Ba, Zhuge Dan, and Zhong Hui). I really got exhausted fight all of the "Shu Invasions" because they felt like the exact same fight every time. I'd love to see Jin make a comeback, but not like it did in 7. The story needs work and the characters rearrange.

I'd say put Xiahou Ba in Wei or Shu (probably Wei for being Yuan's son), Zhuge Dan in Wei or Wu (most of his in-game time would be in Wei so I'd say Wei) and Zhong Hui in Wei (his betrayal wasn't even touched in the game). I put Shu and Wu in For Xiahou Ba and Zhuge Dan because my friend argues that placing them in Wei is like putting Jiang Wei in Wei, and I certainly understand his point.

Anyway, back on topic: I'd say expand and fix them or remove them.
Edited by bjabjabja, Apr 16 2011, 11:00 PM.
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ChibiGingi
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To be fair, bjabjabja, I think Jin characters themselves were finding the Shu invasions to be boring and repetitive. One of the characters really just needed to say it.

"NOT THIS **** AGAIN!"
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Ranger Strider
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Wow just wow... Already staked my claim to your complaint in the complaints thread anywho all for Jin's addition. Zhao FTW!!!

Edit:
Jiang Wei fails, his heart was in the right place but he just fails...
Edited by Ranger Strider, Apr 16 2011, 11:57 PM.
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Nataku956
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My complaint with Jin is it is simply Wei 2 that has officers like Xiahou Ba, and Zhuge Dan who didn't do much for the kingdom of Jin to begin with.

I won't mind the kingdoms further inclusions in the DW series but choose characters that actually represent the kingdom rather then just filling a slot so another kingdom wont have so many officers.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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I would send Guo Huai and Xiahou Ba to Wei, personally. Probably Zhuge Dan as well, but I don't know that he would do a whole lot in Wei, he probably does more during Jin/Late Wei...so he probably fits best under Jin. But, really the only reason I want him in Wei, is so that when Zhuge Jin gets added in Wu...see where I'm going with this? XD

But I don't see a major shift in roster happening, Koei seems pretty content with their choices.

If I were to rebuild the Jin roster it would look something like this:

Sima Yi
Sima Shi
Sima Zhao
Wang Yuanji
Zhong Hui
Deng Ai
Jia Chong
Wen Yang
Yang Hu

Still 9 characters, and it makes more sense. Adding the three (Xiahou Ba, Guo Huai, and Zhuge Dan) to Wei would also increase Wei's small numbers so that they were closer to the roster size of Wu and Shu, and everyone is happy. :D

that is all. XD
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Gaďania
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P H A N T O M_
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Personally, I want these characters for Jin in Dynasty Warriors:

- Sima Yan
- Wen Yang
- Yang Hu
- Du Yu
- Zhang Chunhua

This would give a total of 14 characters, with the current characters.

I think Xiahou Ba is too off in Jin.
He would have been much better in Wei.
Edited by Gaďania, Apr 17 2011, 12:33 AM.
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GuardianAlexio
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The only REAL issue to me character placement wise is Xiahou Ba. Personally I still think Xiahou Ba should go over to the Shu roster, but that's just me however even in Wei I think he would be better placed. Guo Huai could probably still be moved over to Wei and make just as much sense. Zhong Hui and Zhuge Dan I think are fine where they are, considering how late much any of their achievements came.
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Xalfrea
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Keyblade hero

Sure there is some stuff I wish happened, there were characters I wanted, but I'm willing to forgive on this matter because this is untested waters for Koei, it's very rare that an ROTK production even goes into this era, so for a first time attempt it was fine. No excuses come the next game though.

Plus, I LOVE Jin's ending.
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DarkDante
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I think people need to realise in DW7 "Jin" represents the time period as much as the actual Jin Kingdom itself. It's basically a grouping of later era officers who wouldn't fit in their respective forces (mostly Wei) given the paths of their Kingdom's story modes. For example it would be useless to have Deng Ai or Zhuge Dan in Wei since Wei's story mode ends so early. You only have to look at Ding Feng, who cuts a lone figure in Wu's later stages to see what the alternative would of been.

Besides I think the rigid guidelines between Kingdoms are slowly being broken down through characters like SSX, Xiahou Ba and even to a lesser extent Zhang Liao and Jia Xu who are all shown to have different loyalties at one time or another. Hopefully one day we won't have to debate whether Xiahou Ba belongs in Wei, Shu or Jin, but simply realise Xiahou Ba is who he is and shouldn't be defined by his force colour.
Edited by DarkDante, Apr 17 2011, 04:05 AM.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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Wei's story mode didn't have to end at Fan Castle, it is easy to expand that. The only reason it ended at Fan Castle was to bring an end to a narrative that revolved mostly around Xiahou Dun and Cao Cao, and their relationship. Had they went on, characters like Guo Huai and Deng Ai might've had a role...they could've gone all the way up to Wu Zhang Plains, like they always have, and then cut to Jin.

The fact of the matter is the stories will, no matter how they are done, revolve around and depict the history of all 4 kingdoms individually, and whether we like it or not every character needs to fall somewhere, otherwise there isn't any real structure to tell the story in the first place. Xiahou Ba stands a much better chance, in terms of story on Shu or Wei (I personally want him on Wei).

Least that's my opinion.
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Tazzikaze
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so I going to say keep Jin and actually add some officers that served Jin if I the choice to make their roster itm would look like this
-Sima Yi
-Sima Shi
-Sima Zhao
-Sima Yan
-Zhang Chunhua
-Wang Yuanji
-Wen Yang
-Yang Hu
-Du Yu
-Jia Chong
Cause to me Jin didn't feel like Jin until you fought people who would rebelling against you
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