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Wang Yi
Topic Started: Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:56 pm (1,634 Views)
Celestial
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Love,hate, tragedy, and war.
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Okay does anyone have any info on her besides that she fought during the era? Koei Wiki has a big long history on her but I'm not sure if its true. :/
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AdventGreatness
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Emperor's Retainer
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Yeah and who was she married to as well? If I may ask.
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Celestial
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Love,hate, tragedy, and war.
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Zhao Ang was her husband.

Edit: Was her daughter killed as well when Ma Chao raided the city.
Edited by Celestial, Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:46 am.
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Dongzhou
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Koei wiki seems to be on right-lines but with more detail then I have. However calling the inspector Wei Kang as "some offical" means I'm not 100% convinced on it's accuracy. Or the timing of Zhao Yue's execution. Or overemphasising Zhao Ang's role in stuff.

No known birth-place. Wife of Zhao Ang of Hanyang, she stayed at Xi city while her husband was a magistrate in Wudu. In 210, the city was stormed by Liang Shuang, her two sons were killed and she faced rape. Her obligation to care for her six-year-old daughter Ying prevented Wang Yi from killing herself, they hid in the privy and then kept out of sight for almost a year.

When Liang Shuang made peace with the authorities, Wang Yi and Ying were able to return to Zhao Ang. Just outside the city he was in, Wang Yi took poison as she had failed to live up to the models of the past and her daughter was now safe so she had no execute to live on. An antidote was forced upon her and she survived.

In 213, she and her husband were stationed at Ji, the capital of Hanyang (not the more famous Ji) when Ma Chao attacked. There were many heroes in it's long defence (7-8 months) and Wang Yi played an active part in it's defence. Eventually, with reinforcements nowhere to be seen and the people starving, the able and popular Wei Kang surrendered the city to spare his people. Ma Chao promptly killed him. To be honest, some of the more brutal acts of the Ma Chao/Qiang vs Wei war, I could understand in the context but that one seems both a stupid move and morally questionable.

Ma Chao was not inclined to trust Zhao Ang but due to Wang Yi's reputation as a woman of principle, Lady Yang (not the most lucky of ladies) persuaded her husband Ma Chao to shown trust, so he trusted Zhao Ang. He still took the son Zhao Yue as hostage which was a practise Cao Cao did a lot.

As Zhao Ang, Yang Fu and others planned to rebel against Ma Chao but he was concerned for Zha Yue's safety. Their conversation is recorded:
Quote:
 
"I have made my plans, and they will certainly be successful. What are we to do about Yue?"

"If it clears the shame of a lord and father," replied Yi firmly, "to lose
one's head is of small moment. That is still more true for a son."


Zhao Ang's plan worked, they killed Ma Chao's family and the warlord responded by killed Zhao Yue.
Edited by Dongzhou, Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:44 am.
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Qilin Emperor
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Her real name isn't Wang Yi, is it?

Did she really pick up a weapon and go to war when she heard Ma Chao was coming? I read somewhere that she did but I'm not sure if that's true. Can someone clarify?
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Hero of Chaos
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Her name was Wang Yi, but I can't help with the weapon thing.
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Dongzhou
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She and other ladies did help defend Ji city. I believe that means she fought
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Celestial
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If your wondering what what weapon, I remember reading that it was a bow.
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scholar
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Dongzhou
Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:57 pm
She and other ladies did help defend Ji city. I believe that means she fought
Armies inside this era were not professionals or even all soldiers, as you well know. Armies had gangs of prostitutes, families, cooks, doctors, medics, a practical community following them wherever they went and supporting them occasionally in times of conflict. There is no evidence to suggest that Wang Yi physically fought, and occasionally is assumed to have fought because of romantic feeling. For all we know she brought water to the defenders, carried bows and weapons to soldiers, stayed behind tending to the sick, or even providing moral support through encouraging words. Its just too open ended. :/
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Dongzhou
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Yet I would assume that sort of helping out happens in every siege. Would she not have done that sort of thing against Liang Shuang or whatever that rebels name was? So why the notable mention this time?

As for her motives, that is certainly an open ended one. Love was not the first one that comes to mind
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scholar
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Dongzhou
Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:58 pm
Yet I would assume that sort of helping out happens in every siege. Would she not have done that sort of thing against Liang Shuang or whatever that rebels name was? So why the notable mention this time?

As for her motives, that is certainly an open ended one. Love was not the first one that comes to mind
Because it shows nothing less than complete devotion to the Confucian view of how a woman should behave, down to her trying to commit suicide and doing her best to revenge her husband. It is all filial piety at its finest and that would be enough to earn her a mention. Not to mention the importance of that coup against Ma Chao in that particular campaign.

And for why she didn't do it against Liang Shuang, the very same reason why she didn't want to kill herself until after her child was safe.
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GuoBia
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Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:06 pm
Dongzhou
Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:58 pm
Yet I would assume that sort of helping out happens in every siege. Would she not have done that sort of thing against Liang Shuang or whatever that rebels name was? So why the notable mention this time?

As for her motives, that is certainly an open ended one. Love was not the first one that comes to mind
Because it shows nothing less than complete devotion to the Confucian view of how a woman should behave, down to her trying to commit suicide and doing her best to revenge her husband. It is all filial piety at its finest and that would be enough to earn her a mention. Not to mention the importance of that coup against Ma Chao in that particular campaign.

And for why she didn't do it against Liang Shuang, the very same reason why she didn't want to kill herself until after her child was safe.
Respectful disagreement. During this time, Confucian interpretation of womanly virtue was a lot more open-ended than later times, which is the "completely devotion to Confucian" ideals you're talking about. The Han Dynasty was the start of the formation of this idea of womanly virtue, but compared to the Song and Qing dynasties later (the suicide part), it was more open. (Not as open as Tang.)

Yes, suicide upon the death of a father/husband/country was recorded in Lienuzhuan and glorified, but these were, at the time, considered rather extreme and not ideals that women were actually supposed to do.
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Dongzhou
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scholar
Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:06 pm
Because it shows nothing less than complete devotion to the Confucian view of how a woman should behave, down to her trying to commit suicide and doing her best to revenge her husband. It is all filial piety at its finest and that would be enough to earn her a mention. Not to mention the importance of that coup against Ma Chao in that particular campaign.

And for why she didn't do it against Liang Shuang, the very same reason why she didn't want to kill herself until after her child was safe.
I'm pretty sure trying to protect your homes and family from the invader is pretty standard practise during a defensive siege. Not a thing of Confucian virtue.

The suicide (before the city defence) and the sacrifice of her son for the kingdom (after) may be filial piety at it's finest and rightly deserves mention. Woman doing normal stuff during a siege does not. Taking up arms however would be noteable.

Still don't see the reason why she wouldn't help the initial defence. Nor why a refusal to do so has any connection with her keeping herself alive to protect her daughter.
Edited by Dongzhou, Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:24 am.
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bao cai
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dears i have some information as well let me share my thought
first of i don't think that she has fought just with a bow second i think she was the only woman who fought third her sons died however her daughter not because when she heard of her sons' death she decided to commit suicide when she remind of her daughter and her future
my resource is wikipedia
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Dongzhou
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Diao Chan.flowerofHan
Sun Apr 1, 2012 4:09 pm
third her sons died however her daughter not because when she heard of her sons' death she decided to commit suicide when she remind of her daughter and her future
my resource is wikipedia
That sounds like it combined two very separate incidents together. The suicide had nothing to do with her son's death and was a few years earlier
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bao cai
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you know you can check the information
that's why i gave you the resource
and of course can you tell me the reason of her decision for committing suicide
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Dongzhou
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bao cai
Mon Apr 2, 2012 4:22 pm
you know you can check the information
that's why i gave you the resource
and of course can you tell me the reason of her decision for committing suicide


My bad, should have checked wiki to see what you meant. Misunderstood what you said and thought you had combined the Zhao Yue thing with the suicide.
Edited by Dongzhou, Tue Apr 3, 2012 8:03 am.
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bao cai
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ok don't mind in my last forum we made a lot of mistakes and we laughed
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