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| Weapon Switching; Success or failure? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:54 am (4,258 Views) | |
| Thee Yuan Shao | Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:23 pm Post #51 |
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AND PROM'S TOMORROW!
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Completely missing the point. DW6 has more clones than DW7, and that didn't use weapon switch. Weapon switching promoting clones isn't a valid argument, sorry. |
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| Sera | Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:24 pm Post #52 |
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Legend
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ThreeKingdomsWarrior, LoW, Yuuhi: I was wondering, would it be enough to have two slightly different poses or movesets for males and females in your opinion? As I said in my previous message, every character has their own "feel" (for example, lady characters can be sexy, "wild", spunky, martial, shy, collected, etc.) and I think that their movesets and poses should reflect that and their personality (in other words, for example I think Zhen Ji should move in a different way from Da Qiao or Cai Wenji, even though all of them are ladies). That's one of the things I liked in the DW series, and unfortunately it's losing that. *** Thee Yuan Shao: maybe cooljosh means that weapon switching could be an expedient to make clones more "digestible", if I can use that word. |
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| cooljosh21 | Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:29 pm Post #53 |
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Realest/Best
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But you have to understand Koei was trying something different in Dw6. It promoted cloes which is why we have these problems. Plus, we all know Koei is lazy. |
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| SnowMan | Thu Dec 1, 2011 8:28 pm Post #54 |
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"This is no good, no good at all."
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They've never "promoted" clones, clones were just a side effect. And KOEI is no more lazy than any other game company, sorry. Please, get off of your "KOEI sucks" high horse. --------------- Anywho, for me personally, being disappointed over anything more unique than 2 stances per weapon (male/female) is just being nitpicky. I'm not trying to bash you, Sera, but non-unique stances don't bother me one bit. If they decide to give every character a unique stance no matter what weapon they wield, I certainly won't complain. But if they don't, I still won't complain. But that's just me. @Yuuhi Aogiri - About your point on the last page, I'm curious, why exactly do you care that other people abuse the system? Why does it matter to you what they do in their game? It doesn't affect you how they play their copy of the game. I don't mean to come off like a douche, but I fail to understand why. I don't understand why people would abuse the system. It cheapens the game to do it. But it doesn't affect me if they do. That's not really an excuse for removing the system. Edited by SnowMan, Thu Dec 1, 2011 8:30 pm.
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| Saber | Thu Dec 1, 2011 10:03 pm Post #55 |
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Slashitty slash slash
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I don't like players abusing the system because I consider it cheating, (at least to me). I like to see games which take some skill to master, and with weapon-switching, you can slip past all that and just be way overpowered. Not to mention the online play, where practically everyone wields Lu Bu's Halberd and defeats everyone else so easily. Not that it was a bad system, it's just a little over the top. DW: Online still allows you to select your own weapon, but there are steps to earn that weapon, which is why players don't seem to abuse that system as much. If there was a future DW game with weapon-switching, I'd like to see some DW: Online features implemented in the game to prevent abuse. |
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| bball4224 | Thu Dec 1, 2011 10:33 pm Post #56 |
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Broken Profile
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I personally think weapon switch is retarded. I'm not going to go on a five paragraph rant of it, maybe some other time. Right now I'll just leave it at that. |
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| Ryu Blink | Thu Dec 1, 2011 10:39 pm Post #57 |
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Sergeant
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Cool, but I'd rather own moveset for each characters. But I liked in some way. Still, I never saw people that abuse Lu Bu's Halberd on-line...pheraps because I played it like 5 battles XD. Anyway, for example, I use Wang Yuanji with daggers and Flying swords, and I must say that it's pretty odd to see Wang Yuanji stand with that flying swords... |
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| Zillion | Thu Dec 1, 2011 11:02 pm Post #58 |
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Soldier
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I think a lot of why people *in general* like Weapon Switch is that novelty value. I will never look at Xiao Qiao the same way ever again after going online, and seeing someone using her with Lu Bu's moveset and pretty much smashing straight through enemies to the enemy commander. I guess it's because it's nothing more than a novelty in my eyes, but I wouldn't have minded if it was it's own little mode or something. |
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| SnowMan | Thu Dec 1, 2011 11:23 pm Post #59 |
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"This is no good, no good at all."
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But again, how exactly does them blowing through their game without skill affect you? If they choose to do so and it doesn't directly affect how you play the game or the enjoyment you get out of it, why does it matter? And how does that justify taking out a feature that people who DON'T abuse it enjoy? Well if we're going by online play then they would have to ban Lu Bu because everyone plays as him online. How is that any less unfair then another character using the halberd? We'd have to take the weapon switch AND Lu Bu out of the game to fully prevent abuse. But that's a major overreaction, like setting fire to your house so you don't have to clean it. I've never seen anyone use Lu Bu's halberd on a different character anyway. And like I said, they don't have to leave the weapon switch as-is. I'm all for improvement. There are better ways to stop abuse then to scrap the entire system. Edited by SnowMan, Thu Dec 1, 2011 11:24 pm.
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| cooljosh21 | Fri Dec 2, 2011 12:01 am Post #60 |
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Realest/Best
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Yes they did promote clones. When they announced it, I wasn't the only one who thought OOPS I mean know that there was gonna be clones. I don't think Koei sucks bt is very lazy. When Dw8 comes out and theres no weapon switch I cant wait for my laugh. |
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| Kalina91 | Fri Dec 2, 2011 7:56 am Post #61 |
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Han's Unifier
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I agree with you. I equipped the bombs on every character because it was less tedious to do so than figuring out 32+combos with other weapons when the bombs was just C5 spamming, but that's just me. It's not a bad system, but letting ALL the characters have access to ALL the weapons is not really a good idea. The one-three stars didn't prevent it because of the mastery seals which you can smack on the weapon. There should be a limit on the weapons so some characters wouldn't be able to use the weapons, like the Great Sword and Whip. I posted my idea a while ago in this thread before but I'll put here again. Each weapon should have a power or/and speed requirement. Like for example say Zhang Fei's weapon require 80 power, those who doesn't have 80 power won't be able to use it. Skill trees can have something like Bow Mastery or something similar for some characters if their pwr/spd did meet the requirements normally. It still allow some freedom to choose but it also restricts so we won't see for example the Qiaos running around with Lu Bu's weapon because most likely their power would be around 0-30. (Of course I would love to see Cai Wenji still run around with a power weapon in her hands kicking butt) Probably too much numbers to implement but I think this may be the best way. I think weapon switch would have been better received if all the characters had unique movesets the first time around. Edited by Kalina91, Fri Dec 2, 2011 8:04 am.
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| Ryoreiki | Fri Dec 2, 2011 10:36 am Post #62 |
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Do not pursue.....
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OMG! I do that too. ![]() I've actually seen some gameplay videos were characters use weapon switching as a means of releasing combos, like Lian Shi using the crossbow and the twin swords. |
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| Shigeharu | Fri Dec 2, 2011 9:53 pm Post #63 |
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Fear cuts deeper than swords.
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7XL pretty much made the power/speed requirements moot by allowing you to buy upgrades to those stats. I do like the idea of limiting selections somehow, though; while I do like switching because there are a few movesets I absolutely despise (club, for example - and both its EX users have story stages that you have to beat to finish the game!), I don't feel like EX attacks and Musous alone are doing a lot to differentiate characters. If everyone could switch within a certain pool of weapons, but not use everything...that would at least be a step in the right direction, IMO. |
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| Thee Yuan Shao | Fri Dec 2, 2011 10:10 pm Post #64 |
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AND PROM'S TOMORROW!
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Hey the Club wasn't too bad this time around. At least it didn't make the user look stupid. Seriously, play DW6 Huang Gai and laugh at how he runs XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD |
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| Kalina91 | Sat Dec 3, 2011 9:19 am Post #65 |
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Han's Unifier
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Yeah, the whole buying Speed and Power upgrades kind defeated the whole Stars and requirements purpose. I forgot about this actually. Thanks for reminding me. The whole buying the speed and power shouldn't be done again. Just put a limit on a the power and speed on each character ala DW7. With this factored in hopefully this may get characters a pool of weapons to have access to but not to other weapons.
The Club wasn't so bad this time yes, but I have to question why almost 5 out of 6 normals consists only sweeping when I'm pretty sure some swinging from the original DW6 club can be put in 2-3 of the normals instead. Edited by Kalina91, Sat Dec 3, 2011 9:21 am.
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| jujuscrambler | Sat Dec 3, 2011 11:32 am Post #66 |
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First Lieutenant
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Buying Speed and Power was quite understandable though since XL is an expansion. Kinda like how everyone's stats go up to 1400 equally. Though I do agree that there should be some tougher requirement to be able to wield a weapon. |
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| Sera | Sat Dec 3, 2011 12:09 pm Post #67 |
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Legend
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Well, we were speaking about both poses AND movesets. Then, if the DW series hadn't always had specific, fitting movesets and poses for every character based on their "feel" and personality before DW7 (even the non-clone characters in DW6 had perfectly fitting and enjoyable movesets), maybe it could seem nitpicky. |
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| Jorgh | Sat Dec 3, 2011 12:42 pm Post #68 |
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Beecha-tard~<3
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I really don't think the weapon switch system needs limitations(and thankfully XL fixed that), the fun of weapon switching is to be able to use any weapon on anyone for the fun mixtures. It's too bad if some people apparently don't have the self control to not spam the same overpowered movesets on every character, but for those who want to be creative and choose weapons to suit the characters the system is a lot of fun. |
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| cooljosh21 | Sat Dec 3, 2011 8:07 pm Post #69 |
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Realest/Best
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But wait. Shouldn't we all feel blessed that WO3 isn't getting it? They MAY(giggles) make it better in future DW installments. I have a feeling SW may get it too though.
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| Shigeharu | Sat Dec 3, 2011 9:26 pm Post #70 |
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Fear cuts deeper than swords.
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Yeah, that's true. The one thing I think would've suited better is if they only went up by buying things - it'd be easy to just leave them alone and keep the default proficiencies that way, if you wanted. But speed and power also seemed to go up with all the other stats when you left someone serving as your adjutant for a long time. I kind of wish they'd had them just fixed unless you chose to raise them. Oh well. Not a huge sticking point for me, just kind of a "this would've been nice." |
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| maeve2 | Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:14 pm Post #71 |
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Elite Soldier
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I hate it. It's absolutely useless. It was NOT useless in DW: Strikeforce since different enemies were vulnerable to different weapons and a character was able to change only the secondary weapon but not the primary one... but in this game? Where is the point? All enemies can be killed equally effective regardless of the weapon type. There is no point. Where is the fun, guys? Is it fun that I can get one particular character and beat the whole game with him/her just changing the weapons? It's absolutely not fun. I do not need to unlock the characters to test their weapons any more and I do not need to level up a particular favorable character who's favorable exactly because he/she has a certain weapon which I like (and not because her panties are seen all the time). They've killed all the fun. All characters are but skins applied to 30-something movement models. Plus, this system ruined the character size/speed ratio. In old games women generally walked faster while attacking weaker and it was a nice change after playing less speedy male characters but now... Lu Bu and SSX are running at the same speed. Really? |
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| Pandemonium | Fri Dec 9, 2011 9:42 pm Post #72 |
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May The Dark shine our way
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I don't like it. I want my character to be unique and to accept it as it is. I hope that they remove it in DW8 and declone all the characters |
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| cooljosh21 | Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:22 am Post #73 |
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Realest/Best
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Where do you people be when folks try arguing with me b/c I hate this feature?
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| GalenDev | Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:35 am Post #74 |
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First Lieutenant
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I've actually found a use for weapon switching, through DW7XL's Titles system. Take a character like Zhang Liao, for whom their EX is a Power set. On Nightmare mode, that Power set may hit hard, but a lot of damage is going to be taken. So having a Speed weapon as a secondary for healing on that difficulty - especially if it's of the same element and you can double Synergy it for more damage. With that said... I had to outright LOOK for that use of the system. Weapon equipping and switching is far too easy to abuse. On the other hand, a few people have said they use Yuanji with Zhong Hui's flying swords set; and in honesty, I do that as well. So maybe there are some limited uses. Maybe if a version of the system is to be kept, give an individual character a very small range of allowable weapons? |
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| Kunoichime | Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:43 am Post #75 |
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Talent.
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Samurai getting it? YAYAYAYAYAAYAYAY everyone with Kunoichi's weapon!!!!!!! Anyway, if you don't like it, don't press R1, and stick to their EX weapon - which for 70% is either a boring Spear, Pike, Club, Axe or Sword And if you don't want any clones - which I don't. Assign each character with their EX weapon and another weapon. And make sure no other one has the same arrangement. I'm getting the game tomorrow, so here's my list that I did a few months ago (but tweaked last night): Character Faction EX Weapon Other Weapon Bao Sanniang Shu Spinner Throwing Knives Guan Ping Shu Great Sword Halberd Guan Suo Shu Nunchaku Sword & Shield Guan Yu Shu Pike Halberd Huang Zhong Shu Bow Curved Sword Jiang Wei Shu Spear Sword & Shield Liu Bei Shu Twin Swords Sword Liu Shan Shu Rapier Twin Swords Ma Chao Shu Spear Great Sword Ma Dai Shu Brush Spear Pang Tong Shu Shaman Rod Staff Wei Yan Shu Double Voulge Club Xing Cai Shu Sword & Shield Lance Yue Ying Shu Staff Crossbow Zhang Fei Shu Double Voulge Spear Zhao Yun Shu Spear Lance Zhuge Liang Shu War Fan Rapier Cai Wenji Wei Harp Rapier Cao Cao Wei Sword Iron Fan Cao Pi Wei Twin Swords Great Sword Cao Ren Wei Flail Spear Dian Wei Wei Axe Flail Jia Xu Wei Chain & Sickle Flail Xiahou Dun Wei Sword Axe Xiahou Yuan Wei Bow Flying Swords Xu Huang Wei Pike Axe Xu Zhu Wei Club Brush Zhang He Wei Claws Spear Zhang Liao Wei Twin Axes Halberd Zhen Ji Wei Flute Chain Whip Da Qiao Wu Iron Fan Twin Rods Ding Feng Wu Gloves Pike Gan Ning Wu Chain & Sickle Throwing Knives Huang Gai Wu Club Twin Rods Lian Shi Wu Crossbow Chain Whip Ling Tong Wu Nunchaku Spear Lu Meng Wu Pike Flute Lu Xun Wu Twin Swords Wheels Sun Ce Wu Tonfa Spear Sun Jian Wu Sword Claws Sun Quan Wu Sword Tonfa Sun Shang Wu Wheels Bow Taishi Ci Wu Twin Rods Spear Xiao Qiao Wu Iron Fan War Fan Zhou Tai Wu Curved Sword Sword Zhou Yu Wu Staff Flute Deng Ai Jin Lance Arm Cannon Guo Huai Jin Arm Cannon Chain & Sickle Sima Shi Jin Rapier Iron Fan Sima Yi Jin War Fan Claws Sima Zhao Jin Sword War Fan Wang Yuanji Jin Throwing Knives Flying Swords Xiahou Ba Jin Great Sword Bow Zhong Hui Jin Flying Swords Arm Cannon Zhuge Dan Jin War Fan Shaman Rod Diao Chan Other Chain Whip Twin Rods Dong Zhuo Other Flail Club Lu Bu Other Halberd Double Voulge Meng Huo Other Gloves Brush Yuan Shao Other Rapier Sword Zhang Jiao Other Shaman Rod Sword Zhu Rong Other Throwing Knives Claws Some of them ^ are obvious e.g. Sun Shang Xiang - she has a Bow as her 2nd weapon because she was the Bow Princess Some of them, e.g. Xiahou Yuan, don't even ask why he had the flying swords, because I can't remember |
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The whole buying the speed and power shouldn't be done again. Just put a limit on a the power and speed on each character ala DW7.




8:06 PM Jul 11