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Weapon Switching; Success or failure?
Topic Started: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:54 am (4,256 Views)
Ma Dai
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Right General
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I never was really in agreement with 7's weapon switching. I personally keep all characters with their weapons as assigned by the game so that I don't ruin the experience for myself.

Ugh at the thought of Zhen Ji running around with the Club >_>
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Astus
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I do enjoy the mechanic very much and hope it does make a return for DW8. I know most of the characters are unique by now and that almost all realistically should be by the time DW8 does roll around but it helps in realising a certain perception you have of a character that might differ a bit from how he's portrayed within the game. It's also a pretty flexible and fun system to have around.
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LadyLuo
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True Beauty
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I personally LOVE changing weapons. I love using Zhen Ji and running around with the bow or arm cannon. I don't have to worry about choosing strength over beauty anymore. I can have the best of both worlds. I however was disappointed by some move-sets though this isn't the place to mention it...
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Blossercubbles
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First Lieutenant
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I think the best thing that could be done would be to give each character their own set of 'skills'. Someone earlier mentioned Gan Ning having a skill tree with his weapon to make him feel more like a pirate, and I couldn't agree more.

The issue with the system to me isn't that people are using whatever weapon they want, but that Da Qiao with a bow feels exactly the same as Sun Shang Xiang with a bow. That doesn't feel right at all.

Each character should have an expanded Skill Tree that keeps them true to what they do best. Lu Bu would get neat things like hyper armour or minor health regeneration, while Xing Cai would receive more buffs to defense and mobility. I want Lu Bu and Xing Cai to play differently, even if I use the same weapon for each. I shouldn't expect the two of them to be exactly the same in any one weapon type, as Xing Cai is smaller, faster, and more oriented on protection while Lu Bu is bigger, meaner, and cares little for anything that isn't power.

I don't play Dynasty Warriors for weapons, but for characters. When these characters are used ONLY for the purpose of an avatar for whatever weapon of the week, I feel too detached to care about any of it.
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Red Blossom
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True Beauty
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In my opinion it wasn't a failure but it did leave a lot to be desired. I mean there wasn't a lot of choices in terms of movesets. Another problem for me was that the movesets didn't really go well with the character they were with, I think Lu Meng and Guan Yu shared a moveset, correct me if I'm wrong and in my opinion you can't really make a moveset that fits Guan Yu's style if it has to be shared with another character, it was a bit too generic for me in a way.

I know people don't like it, but I would have preferred it if there had been more restrictions, characters like Zhen Ji, Da and Xiao should not be standing hunched over, it's too manish and doesn't fit in with their personality at all. If those had been gender restricted it would have been a lot better for me.

It was good in the way that if you were playing story mode with a character whose moveset you didn't like you could change it.

Overall, I didn't mind it and a lot of people enjoyed it so it should be kept in then they can improve it. I didn't use it much though, I prefered to use movesets characters have been assigned to ...
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Ryoreiki
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Do not pursue.....
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It actually leaves potential for something good that could be used when it comes to weapon switching:

-Creating mix-up combos, instead of the repetitive normal attack+charge attack animations.
-Different ways of fighting (for example, the crossbow for distancing, and the pike as another weapon for close combat)

Limitations for the characters I can see as well, so they wouldn't resort to using every weapon, thus decreasing the chances of uniqueness. That way it won't be about "using a character and picking their own weapon for the freedom of it". It would instead be "how does this character benefit during gameplay."

But, weapon switching or not, the game does need to add more attacks and animations than the usual normal, charge, and musou attacks.
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fohn-jarmery
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The Dream General
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I feel the Weapon Switch system was a double-edged sword in terms of what it did for diversity.
On the one hand, the first thing that drew me to this series was the fact it promised a truly enormous character roster whilst still giving each character their own personal attack style - and in the most cases personal weapons. If there were multiple spear users, each spear user had a differently skinned spear which he/she (were there any female spear users anyway?) would use to different effect. I always admired the vast creativity of team Koei in the fact they could make a spear or sword - be or do so many different things. I never grew tired of gameplay which, I admit, was slightly repetitive - simply due to the vast amount of characters I could experience this gameplay with.

With the new weapon switch system I found that alluring diversity had now been abandoned in favour of character accesibility. Characters were now effectively just 'skins' for one default character and instead it was the weapons that did the fighting. This wouldn't have been so bad - if there weren't such a small selection of weapons. I ended up exhausting each weapon rather quickly - far quicker than I would have grown bored of the old character roster. This did open up one nice prospect for me though - it allowed me to use characters whose movesets had previously left me avoiding them (e.g characters like Huang Gai, I never played as simply because I disliked the moveset). However this freedom was again hindered by the 'weapon proficiency' system and whilst the game did offer remedies to fix that - said remedy took up valuable weapon upgrade space and I would've preferred if a characters proficiency increased the more they used the weapon (which also would've added a greater sense of customisation to effectively cloned characters).

So overall I guess it was another example of Koei tryng to mix up their game a little but honestly I'm a firm believer in 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it' - and Dynasty Warriors was not broke.
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Skode
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King of KW
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The ONLY thing i like about weapon switching in the game is at least it allows me to use the DLC weapons to "declone" characters which should have been unique in the first place. Personally though i would much rather have each character set with a weapon and a moveset unique to them... after all why bother even trying to experience the personalities, motivations and quirks of such a diverse cast if you can simply choose one and use that person with every existing weapon in the game (barring the whole of ONE which is gender blocked for them).
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Daikyō
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I'm ready to serve you all

Astus
Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:08 pm
I do enjoy the mechanic very much and hope it does make a return for DW8. I know most of the characters are unique by now and that almost all realistically should be by the time DW8 does roll around but it helps in realising a certain perception you have of a character that might differ a bit from how he's portrayed within the game. It's also a pretty flexible and fun system to have around.
wholeheartedly agree with this..

Well i don't want to repeat things again but if the weapon switch system does make return in DW8, hope it will follow multi-raid 2 / Strikeforce mechanic, where the only weapon that can be changed are only the secondary weapon, and We cannot change weapon in the mid of battle.
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Skode
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King of KW
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Daikyo
Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:00 pm
Astus
Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:08 pm
I do enjoy the mechanic very much and hope it does make a return for DW8. I know most of the characters are unique by now and that almost all realistically should be by the time DW8 does roll around but it helps in realising a certain perception you have of a character that might differ a bit from how he's portrayed within the game. It's also a pretty flexible and fun system to have around.
wholeheartedly agree with this..

Well i don't want to repeat things again but if the weapon switch system does make return in DW8, hope it will follow multi-raid 2 / Strikeforce mechanic, where the only weapon that can be changed are only the secondary weapon, and We cannot change weapon in the mid of battle.
Yeah - even i would be happy with that. Unique uncloned first weapon for all (with a unique Ex attack retained for DW8 as well) but still give those who want some flexibility the option.

I would go one further and make one of the two ultimate versions also locked to one character... so one unique weapon skin for the main user and the other usable by anyone - helping make characters that bit more unique. Would also like them to either expand or scrap entirely the daft gender locked mechanic as it only covers one weapon each - wouldnt mind Xu Zhu not being to use Flute and Xiao Qiao with the club for example... restricts choice a little but makes sense for me.
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Daikyō
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I'm ready to serve you all

Skode
Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:56 am
Daikyo
Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:00 pm
Astus
Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:08 pm
I do enjoy the mechanic very much and hope it does make a return for DW8. I know most of the characters are unique by now and that almost all realistically should be by the time DW8 does roll around but it helps in realising a certain perception you have of a character that might differ a bit from how he's portrayed within the game. It's also a pretty flexible and fun system to have around.
wholeheartedly agree with this..

Well i don't want to repeat things again but if the weapon switch system does make return in DW8, hope it will follow multi-raid 2 / Strikeforce mechanic, where the only weapon that can be changed are only the secondary weapon, and We cannot change weapon in the mid of battle.
Yeah - even i would be happy with that. Unique uncloned first weapon for all (with a unique Ex attack retained for DW8 as well) but still give those who want some flexibility the option.

I would go one further and make one of the two ultimate versions also locked to one character... so one unique weapon skin for the main user and the other usable by anyone - helping make characters that bit more unique. Would also like them to either expand or scrap entirely the daft gender locked mechanic as it only covers one weapon each - wouldnt mind Xu Zhu not being to use Flute and Xiao Qiao with the club for example... restricts choice a little but makes sense for me.
Yeah that's why i love Weapon switch system in Strikeforce series :)

and to be honest i prefer them to expand the gender restricted weapons, but make the weapon choices to be limited for each characters, for example: Zhen only can use 7 weapons that she's capable of using it (Flute, Harp, twin sword, whip, Wheels, etc) same goes to all characters.
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Yukimazan
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Always Surviving
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The weapon switch system is really awesome and useful in the game. Not only I can choose my weapons regardless of my character, I can use it's switch attacks for escape or back-up attacks. I'll excuse KOEI's cloning because there's like a lot of characters in the game and it ain't easy to do all of them. (Which my resulted in delay).
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garnix
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Legend
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Yukimazan
Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:48 pm
The weapon switch system is really awesome and useful in the game. Not only I can choose my weapons regardless of my character, I can use it's switch attacks for escape or back-up attacks. I'll excuse KOEI's cloning because there's like a lot of characters in the game and it ain't easy to do all of them. (Which my resulted in delay).
I think it's easy to do all of them.
They just have to make all the weapons from previous installments return.
They already developed at least 17 weapons since DW7 release.
They just made one bad choice in my opinion.
They spent too much time on Conquest mode. They'd better have spent time on decloning.
Well, at least they are making money this way.

About weapon switching, I agree Stikeforce system is a really good one.
Changing the weapon setup in the middle of a battle is a nonsense.
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Shigeharu
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Fear cuts deeper than swords.
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garnix
Sun Feb 5, 2012 11:24 am
They spent too much time on Conquest mode. They'd better have spent time on decloning.
I don't think they spent as much time on Conquest mode as they should've. The DLC stages are better, but most stages in Conquest mode are hopelessly generic, like they just made one set of conditions, randomized the people in it, and plunked it down on ten maps and called it ten stages.

You play one of the "solo battle" stages and you will always find the same things in the same places - an ally who challenges you take a base quickly, an enemy ambush, and the boss. The only difference is in who the officers are. You do one, you've done them all.

The character-specific legendary battles are a little better, but even a lot of them fall into the same patterns. How many "training mission, defeat these officers in your kingdom!" battles were there? Until 7XL and the DLC, I didn't even want to look at Conquest mode after I was done with it. It's just so much of the same thing over and over; the idea was a neat one but the execution bored me to tears.
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Kiskay
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First Lieutenant
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I like weapon switching if not only for making playing with the characters who's move-sets/weapons I dislike a bit easier.
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Ero-Sennin
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KW's Perverted Hermit
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I'm perfectly happy with the unique musou of each character rather than unique weapon movesets. I mean, how many different combat styles do you want in a game? Most characters have different stat sets if I remember right, so they are different in that.

Point is, most of the weapons are stupid as hell, for prime example, the huge slow ass sword on Xiahou Ba and Guan Ping, bringing it in in such a way was a bad idea, Guan Ping's style from DW5 was far superior, it was quicker, and had more area effect for crowds. The weapon switches just flat out makes it better to use good characters with shitty weapons for me.

Another perk to it for me, is giving people historically accurate weapons, as most look retarded and too bulky to even actually be used in real combat so I can give Guan Ping/Xiahou Ba spears and or swords, or bows, as I remember in the book Guan Ping was rumored to be an adept martial artist.
Edited by Ero-Sennin, Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:13 pm.
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SnowMan
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"This is no good, no good at all."
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Daikyo
Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:00 pm
and We cannot change weapon in the mid of battle.
Wait, what? We might as well not have the weapon switch in the game at all if we can't even use it during battle. I hate that idea. Being able to use two weapons during a battle was what makes the feature fun to use.

I use the Dragon Spear and the Claws with Zhang He. I would never solely use the spear with him, but I still want to be able to use it. Not letting me cheapens the system and makes it pretty much useless.

Making everyone keep an EX weapon in one slot? I'm not fully against that. But take out the ability to switch during battle and you neuter the system.
Edited by SnowMan, Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:04 pm.
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Daikyō
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I'm ready to serve you all

SnowMan
Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:02 pm
Daikyo
Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:00 pm
and We cannot change weapon in the mid of battle.
Wait, what? We might as well not have the weapon switch in the game at all if we can't even use it during battle. I hate that idea. Being able to use two weapons during a battle was what makes the feature fun to use.

I use the Dragon Spear and the Claws with Zhang He. I would never solely use the spear with him, but I still want to be able to use it. Not letting me cheapens the system and makes it pretty much useless.

Making everyone keep an EX weapon in one slot? I'm not fully against that. But take out the ability to switch during battle and you neuter the system.
What i meant is, we cannot change the current equiped weapons to another weapon types during the battle.

Example: We choose Sword as primary weapon, and Shaman rod as secondary weapon, so when the battle started, we cannot change it to another weapon types (e.g iron fan, halberd, etc) during the battle until the battle is finished.

Sorry for the confusion :hehe:
Edited by Daikyō, Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:18 pm.
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SnowMan
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^Lol oh, yeah I see what you mean now. I wouldn't be too broken up if they took that out. I really never did that anyway, all of my weapon selecting was done in the Conquest menu.
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Miserable Secret
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Secret Misery
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Isnt the weapon switch like playing a character with a different weapon of another person?
Thats okbut youre not playing the character and it kills it for that person , Koei needs a better way of doing things. Not good, but enjoyable...
Edited by Miserable Secret, Thu Jun 7, 2012 4:32 pm.
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Fūma
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The Dragon Has Returned
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The only complaint I really have is that each weapon has the same moveset "structure". I mean, there should be more variety like in SW2, where some movesets have lots of basic attacks but less power attacks, and vise versa. And maybe some weapon should have more aerial combos, the claws are a good start (you can do a 3-hit jump attack combo).
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Miserable Secret
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Secret Misery
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Fuuma
Thu Jun 7, 2012 6:32 pm
The only complaint I really have is that each weapon has the same moveset "structure". I mean, there should be more variety like in SW2, where some movesets have lots of basic attacks but less power attacks, and vise versa. And maybe some weapon should have more aerial combos, the claws are a good start (you can do a 3-hit jump attack combo).
Yeah, I said that, except for the aerial combos. Nice thought.
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Ryoreiki
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Do not pursue.....
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Secret Misery
Thu Jun 7, 2012 4:30 pm
Isnt the weapon switch like playing a character with a different weapon of another person?
Thats okbut youre not playing the character and it kills it for that person , Koei needs a better way of doing things. Not good, but enjoyable...
And to think CAW characters were playing with their own unique movesets.

People are saying it "promotes clones", but I don't see it.

Personally it gives players their own playstyle for various characters. For example, since Lian Shi's crossbow is for long range, I give her the wind and fire wheels for close range. Plus she looks good with it.

With Wang Yuanji, I give her Flying Swords for her secondary. Just a personal preference.

But of course, in creativity of the characters, there should be some limitations of weapons they should have. Maybe a maximum of 6 various weapons per character. Just to keep that balance.
Edited by Ryoreiki, Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:17 pm.
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