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Kill All Muslims! - Burma Massacre
Topic Started: Jun 29 2012, 10:18 PM (12,526 Views)
Pride
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孟德
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I've swarmed the internet trying to look for an English article, only found these:

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/06/22/city/lahore/ji-appeals-to-stop-muslim-massacre-in-burma/

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=29951

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-5-115684-JI-flays-Muslim-massacre-in-Burma

But this has been all over Facebook, at least shared among Muslims. I've seen HORRIBLE pictures of masses and masses of Muslims murdered in both Facebook and Twitter. AlArabiya is one of the biggest and most trusted Middle Eastern news channels, it covers the issue in this article:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/06/28/223325.html

Of course, it's Arabic, so here are the main notes:

* Mohammad Nasr, a political activist, told the news agency that a group of radical, Buddhist extremists called "The Mag" has declared the Holy War against Muslims in the Arakan Province in Burma. He pointed that the number of killed Muslims so far couldn't be determined.

* Nasr explained that Muslims in Burma only go out in the streets during the day period. They stick to their homes or hide in places that lack proper security necessities during the night, all in fright of the recent Anti-Muslim attacks that are considered the most severe attacks in the countries' history.

*Nasr concluded that he is 100% certain that the UN won't react till all Muslims die.

-----

Background information:

Burma is a country in south-east Asia, also called Myanmar. 50 million people live in the country, 15% of them are of the Islamic faith. Half of those 15% live in the attacked province, which is mostly Muslim populated.

Islam reached the province in the ninth century, and became an independent Muslim country till 1784 when a Buddha King from Burma seized the country. Since then, Muslims have been suffering from oppression and mass killings. In 1942, "The Mag" committed a similar genocide, killing more than 100 thousand Muslims, and leaving hundreds of thousands of homeless people. Between 1962 and 1991, Muslims suffered from repeated deportations so much that 1.5 million Muslims migrated to Bangladesh.
============

What do you think? Why is the UN keeping a blind eye to this? Why is it that we associate Muslims with terrorism when Muslims are the people that get butchered the most in countless parts of the world?

Living in the Middle East, and aside the downright terror that's going on in Syria, this has disgusted me the most. I can't believe people would turn a blind eye to such extremists that have both killed Muslims and tainted the picture Buddhism.
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LsLights
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This is absolutely awful, when did this happen, today, because i've heard nothing about this any where. This is absolutely disgusting, those pictures made me want to cry. They have to be down right the worst Buddhist's ever, not sure you can really call them that actually.
Not suprised about the UN, the UN never seems to be doing anything except look after themselves and money or whatever, never hear good things coming from them.
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Kiheiji
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Goodness gracious, what?

Is this the f'n middle ages all over again? Why are people so ass-backwards?
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Pride
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LsJamm
Jun 29 2012, 11:25 PM
This is absolutely awful, when did this happen, today, because i've heard nothing about this any where. This is absolutely disgusting, those pictures made me want to cry. They have to be down right the worst Buddhist's ever, not sure you can really call them that actually.
Not suprised about the UN, the UN never seems to be doing anything except look after themselves and money or whatever, never hear good things coming from them.
I'm not entirely sure, I've first heard about this yesterday. Reading the article, it says those attacks have frequently occurred since the 60s. I'd say the attacks must have intensified this week. The main reason I'm bringing this up is because the media is totally blanking this. Even the media here in the Middle East isn't covering it as deep - it's probably too occupied with Syria.

A small gathering will be organized tomorrow in front of Burma's Embassy here in Kuwait. They'll try to speak with some officials there :/

Those who have a strong heart, and want to see how seriously sick this is, they can see these pictures:

(WARNING: EXTREMELY FILLED WITH BLOOD, GORE and MUTILATION.)
http://www.burma-ksa.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30306
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Mrs Bucket
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I haven't even heard of it until today but did read that China is sending refugees back. What a shock.

Obviously China censored it.

Most of the world is more focused on Aung San Suu Kyi's 'achieving democracy for Myanmar/Burma'

The UN should just be abolished if they allow things like this continue in Syria or Myanmar.
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Srose343
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As much as it sickens me, this is the sad sad world we live in, it's moments like this that make me realize that religions are sometime the sole causes of war and outbreak.
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scholar
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Pride
Jun 29 2012, 10:18 PM
What do you think? Why is the UN keeping a blind eye to this? Why is it that we associate Muslims with terrorism when Muslims are the people that get butchered the most in countless parts of the world?
Massacres of different religions, faiths, and ethnic groups are commonplace around the world. The reason why we associate Muslims with terrorism is because they are the ones that attack the West most prolifically. The other groups tend to massacre their neighbors rather than plot bombings in London, Madrid, or New York. Its not a fair distinction, but the reason why is because Muslim terrorists affect us the most.

The association itself is wrong, as it is a gross simplification and generalization. In India Hindus kill Muslims, and Muslims kill Hindus. In southeast Asia Buddhists kill Muslims, and Muslims kill Buddhists. In Japan's past Buddhists killed Christians, and Christians killed Buddhists. In the Middle East Muslims kill other Muslims[Sunni/Shiite/Wahabi], Muslims kill non-Muslims. In the Sudan, Congo, Uganda, and much of Sub-Saharan Africa similar conflicts exist. Even in China this existed between the Buddhists, Confucians, Taoists, and Muslims, and none are mutually exclusive.

The problem with this is that its all over the place, there's no realistic way to put an end to it all. Its not that countries don't care, its that as far as our countries are concerned its a distant tertiary problem to deal with. If you were in Indonesia or Bangladesh, the news would be filled with these reports. It comes down to location and national priorities.
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scholar
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Srose343
Jul 3 2012, 04:20 PM
As much as it sickens me, this is the sad sad world we live in, it's moments like this that make me realize that religions are sometime the sole causes of war and outbreak.
Religion prevents wars just as often, its just that no one sees or cares to see it.
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Pride
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Jul 3 2012, 06:09 PM
The reason why we associate Muslims with terrorism is because they are the ones that attack the West most prolifically. The other groups tend to massacre their neighbors rather than plot bombings in London, Madrid, or New York. Its not a fair distinction, but the reason why is because Muslim terrorists affect us the most.
All those together are ten times smaller than the number of Muslims killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the like by the hands of western governments.

Sorry I dragged the topic away a bit, it's just that I got a bit emotional there. I find it disgusting how Muslims are killed the most around the world and yet are labelled as terrorists.
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Kratos
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Hollywood is portraying muslims and arabs as EVIL even back in the 60s movies and cartoons but when u look at it in real life arabs and muslims are getting slaughtered in iraq and other countries
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Matsunaga Hisahide
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Hmmm...I wonīt even try to look smart here and preach something about religion being good or bad or that itīs daily buisness.

Thatīs just cruelty at itīs worst.
It doesnīt matter if itīs about baby seals being beaten into a near-death state just to get a hook rammed into their body and getting dragged a few miles just to be skinned alive at the end, it doesnīt matter if itīs about street kids being rounded up in razzias that accuse them of crimes they often never commited, just to be exectued under some dirty bridge where no one even remembers or misses them.

Same for the female genital mutilations that happen all around the globe for no medical reason, just to scar these poor young woman for the rest of their lives and the same goes for parts of the world, that have some kind of religion or cult, that is about classes, where those who are at the bottom of that system are treated worse than animals, where raping and murdering "such low classes" wonīt even be charged by the law cause of their stand in society.

Wether itīs religion, love, racism, alcohol, drugs, whatever comes to your mind, humans have and will allways find an excuse to set a new standart for how low we can sink. This is just another sad example of how some small ideas and ideals can get us to show our worst side.
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Zillion
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Heard about this from my father this morning (both my parents are Bangladeshi, muslim) though we don't have any family over in Burma so it's hard to find much information on this at all.

The fact that this is getting no news coverage at all by mainstream western news sites (as far as I'm aware of) is freaking unreal.
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scholar
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Pride
Jul 8 2012, 08:36 PM
scholar
Jul 3 2012, 06:09 PM
The reason why we associate Muslims with terrorism is because they are the ones that attack the West most prolifically. The other groups tend to massacre their neighbors rather than plot bombings in London, Madrid, or New York. Its not a fair distinction, but the reason why is because Muslim terrorists affect us the most.
All those together are ten times smaller than the number of Muslims killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the like by the hands of western governments.

Sorry I dragged the topic away a bit, it's just that I got a bit emotional there. I find it disgusting how Muslims are killed the most around the world and yet are labelled as terrorists.
Its actually quite the opposite. You're thinking of the Western Militaries as a blunt instrument when in reality it is surgical in precision, which is no where near the numbers of the vulgar brawls that take over entire armies and entire countries in the region. Timur the Lame is of particular mention if one wishes to stack casualty for casualty against one another in which we fail in comparison to even begin to enter into the same league as merely one despot in a chaotic time of ethnic cleansings. If you're referring to the Terrorist attacks at home rather than the long list of different conflicts between religious groups, then you'll find that the numbers game really is quite a moot point. Once again we are talking about tangible results we can see. Several Thousand dead neighbors in one of the greatest cities of the most powerful nation or several thousand dead in the ever flowing sands of the Middle East. One's existence is palpable and all-affecting. The other is not even remotely to that level. Tragic, and disgusting, but true.

However, its really not at all fair a distinction to point to Western Military activities are proof that Muslims are getting killed the most around the world. The conflicts in the Middle East are wars, most of them civil wars. The deaths that occur there are mostly Muslim v. Muslim. Further, there are no acts at all carried out by the West to destroy Muslim communities based solely on the fact that they are "Muslim". It would be like saying The WW2 was a war to destroy the evil Protestant/Catholic German Coalition, and tally up all the dead Nazis as casualties of the Christian religion to victimize Christians. It doesn't work that way. To make that distinction one must examine conflicts that are not occurring in cases of official war, but rather civil internal conflicts between Muslims and Non-Muslims. To this we have Sudan, the Congo, much of Sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia to examine. Inside of Pakistan in particular has its share of demons. Indonesia also proves that its not isolated.

It is honestly not all that difficult to realize how these feelings have been cultivated in recent years, however if one wishes to state that the West brands all Muslims as terrorists they'll find themselves mistaken. The hatred for Muslims as Terrorists have never been a majority opinion, the closest thing we had to that in the United States was shortly after September Eleventh, but reports shortly after that swayed opinion away from that. The enemy were always radical islamist sects, never Islam itself. Even then it was never a "kill them all" attitude like some minority loudmouths may lead you to believe. It was always attacking only those that were militant, and only those with known plans to commit attacks (or have committed attacks).

Its right to be disgusted by those views, however. No matter how much they are in the minority. A religion, like anything pertaining to man, is ultimately made up by people. No one has the right to make a generalization that brands 1/6th the people on this planet as terrorists.
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Pride
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Quote:
 
You're thinking of the Western Militaries as a blunt instrument when in reality it is surgical in precision


Surgical in precision? Have you any idea just how many people died in the bombings in Iraq in the quest for mass destruction weapons that they never found? Why is a country like the US stand with a tyrannical country like Israel? Bombings in Gaza and Lebanon have happened for several decades now and most people die there by the hands of the Israeli government rather than terrorist groups like Hizb Allah.
Quote:
 

then you'll find that the numbers game really is quite a moot point.


I honestly don't think so. Palestinian kids throwing rocks at Israeli tanks, tens of pictures of US soldiers smiling next to dead children in Afghanistan, all that makes it clear to me. Three thousand people have died in 9/11, that is tragic, but it doesn't justify the genocide committed in Afghanistan to find whoever is allegedly responsible.

Someone might think I'm being biased here because of my roots, but let me assure you that I hate Palestine and most Iraqis for what they did to my country in 1990, and I feel grateful for The States for their payed help, but I feel I need to say what's right here.

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The conflicts in the Middle East are wars, most of them civil wars. The deaths that occur there are mostly Muslim v. Muslim.


Not really. Civil wars, like Syria and Libya, only broke out last year. The civil war in Lebanon had a great Israeli influence, and the Kuwait-Iraq war wasn't as catastrophic as the bombings in Iraq, Gaza, and Afghanistan. Hell, even Bush said Iraq was a Holy War for him >,>

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Further, there are no acts at all carried out by the West to destroy Muslim communities based solely on the fact that they are "Muslim"


I'd agree that this is mostly true. Basically, it's just greedy politicians wanting oil, and zealots in Israel killing for religious purposes. Funny, considering whothe 'zealots' in the media's eyes are :rolleyes:

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The hatred for Muslims as Terrorists have never been a majority opinion, the closest thing we had to that in the United States was shortly after September Eleventh, but reports shortly after that swayed opinion away from that.

Yeah I never meant it was the public opinion, it's just the governments' actions.

=====================

Recent picture about Burma:

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/553874_386430351412947_844569722_n.jpg
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Sanji Himura
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We did get the people responsible. They are either dead or in Gitmo.

The problem with the Islam faith is that they are indeed instructed to carry the sword. Sura 9:5 in the Qu'ran says(with commentary):

Quote:
 
Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


It is echoed in other places too. Sura 8:39, 8:67, 9:29, and 9:33 all share similar themes.

Gregory M. Davis, an Islam expert says...

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The Quran's commandments to Muslims to wage war in the name of Allah against non-Muslims are unmistakable. They are, furthermore, absolutely authoritative as they were revealed late in the Prophet's career and so cancel and replace earlier instructions to act peaceably. Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."


Here is complete analysis if you want to read it:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
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Pride
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One of the often misunderstood verses. Bleh..

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(5) Based on the above, we can now investigate verse (9:5), "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." One of the main concerns of Chapter (Surah) 9 of the Quran (a Surah is a collection of verses) was to delineate the strategies for dealing with the polytheists of the Arabian Peninsula after the Muslims, under the leadership of Prophet Muhammad, peacefully captured Mecca (In January, 630, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his followeres were joined by tribe after tribe along their way to Mecca. They entered Mecca without bloodshed and the Meccans, seeing the tide had turned, joined them.) the city that since the beginning of Islam lead the oppression and persecution of the Muslim converts.

(6) Since the polytheists differed in their relationship with the new religion after its victory, there was a need to differentiate between the malevolent enemies of Islam bent on destroying the Muslims and who did not observe their treaties with the Muslims, those who hated Islam but were willing to honor their treaties with Muslims, those who rejected Islam but peacefully co-existed with the Muslim community, etc. The aforementioned verse (9:5) was concerned with the most vehement opponents of the Islamic faith not by virtue of their refusal to be Muslims but by continually breaching their treaties with the Muslims and fighting them. Given that, their treatment is not equal, the complete verse says, "So when the sacred months have passed away, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and keep them under observation, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely God is Forgiving, Merciful." Meaning: so when the grace period (4 months) is past, and if the other party insists on fighting Islam, then a state of war is inevitable. The struggle may take the form of killing, or capture and imprisonment, or just keeping an eye on these enemies to fend off their evil if they decide to launch an offensive against Muslims. The punishment should be fair and just and, thus, must be proportional to the crimes actually committed. Not only this, but the pagans can repent and accept Islam, as evident from the last part of (9:5), or desist from attacking Muslims and ask for protection, as evident from the next verse (9:6), "If one amongst the pagans ask you for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure."


Here is the full article, highly recommended that you read it.

http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp
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Sura 8:39

Quran
 

And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.


Basically, when this verse was revealed, Muslims were being oppressed by the Pagans. This verse simply tells them to fight until the oppression ceases, and it's quite clear actually..

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8:67

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It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.


This verse was revealed shortly after the battle of Badr. Some Muslims wanted to take prisoners and seize their money as spoils of war. God here tells the prophet not to allow it, and rather kill anyone who refuses to join the religion. The battle of Badr is the first battle in the Islamic history, and Muslims were extremely few in front of their enemies. God here decrees that when the religion is weak, Muslims shouldn't take prisoners. Later on, Muslims took prisoners, set many people free, welcomed refugees, etc.. and many verses in the Quran decreed that and that happened when the religion became strong and stable. 'until he hath thoroughly subdued the land' is, in Arabic, 'yuth-khin' which also means 'to become thick, stable'. It doesn't really mean to subdue as in kill, it means to become strong and stable as a belief with followers and to 'subdue' oppressions.

Quote:
 
9:29

Here:
http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/surah9_29.asp
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9:33

Quran
 

It is He Who hath sent His Apostle with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).


... what's wrong with it? o.o God promises Muslims that they will reign supreme eventually, when all humans become Muslims. I don't see anything aggressive here.
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Gregory M. Davis, an Islam expert says...


Hardly an unbiased researcher. Reading the quote you provided, and bits of his article, he is basically set on attacking Islam and the Quran with misquoted verses. Not only do I doubt his motives, but I also doubt his knowledge. I quickly scanned his work, and I found some hilariously wrong arguments and mistranslations. I literally facepalmed when I read about what he had to say about Taqiyya. Absolutely absurd in a sad hilarious way.

Sanji, are you in favor of the mass killings in Burma then? Weird how you got in this topic, ignored all the news and pictures, and straightforwardly went to attack Islam as a belief as if you're justifying the attack.

==========

News:

http://india.nydailynews.com/newsarticle/4fff17e7c3d4caaa1f000000/myanmar-president-says-rohingyas-not-welcome

Basically, now the government of Burma joins the issue and wants to kick Muslims out of the country to solve the conflict. >,>

Burma's ruler calling for the deportation of Rohingya people (Muslims).
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vidjin
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More than 20 thousand Muslims (Humans) have been killed as yet, and still the Independent World Media and Press continues to sleep !!!

(Video) Killings and Massacre of Muslims in Burma

Where is United Nations and Western Human Rights Groups now?
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Snyf
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Well said, Pride. I know I haven't been online in a while except lurking in the DW7:E thread, but when I saw this, I was about to debate the same points as you did. People read the Quran and misinterpret what they mean. From that, they believe that we are a religion of war and wish to destroy the world.

Quran
 
It is He Who hath sent His Apostle with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).


And if anyone wants to argue with this point, it never says Muslims want to do it violently. Like Christianity, Islam tells us to spread our religion, and what our religion feels will create a sanctuary and what we all want is a world of Islam.I do not deny that, but isn't that what religion is all about? We accept other religions and tolerate them, all of us, but we always wish to have a world where everyone is a Muslim.

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Without knowledge of the principle of abrogation, Westerners will continue to misread the Quran and misdiagnose Islam as a "religion of peace."


This 'expert' fails to acknowledge the fact that the religion he is so proficient with actually translates to 'peace'. The world Islam means peace in Arabic! What more do you want?

I am absolutely horrified by what's going on, but I'm really not surprised. I just like to end my rant with something I would like to clarify, and read this carefully so it isn't used against me later. Muslims do kill other religions. I have no qualm with that and I agree with it completely. In no way do I say that we are the innocent ones. We have killed people before, some of our own religion. But, many religions have done that.

The mass killings pertaining to religions have all affected me deeply. I recently visited the U.S. Holocaust Museum and I was really emotional there. I saw many people of different backgrounds emotional as well. Now, I know this isn't at the same scale, but it still counts.

I believe in the U.N. and what they're doing and I know that their goal is in good heart, but they just don't do anything, so I don't expect their help at all.
Edited by Snyf, Jul 14 2012, 09:29 PM.
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scholar
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Surgical in precision? Have you any idea just how many people died in the bombings in Iraq in the quest for mass destruction weapons that they never found?
10-30,000.

But what you don't seem to realize is that that is rather surgical. Iraq and Afghanistan are not being invaded through old style armies of tanks, artillery, and infantry. The number of forces is kept relatively small compared to older wars, tactics are far more reserved, targets are selected more carefully than ever before. We target and incinerate buildings or city blocks rather than bombarding entire towns and cities in the hopes of attaining a target. There's a clearly defined difference that's impossible to ignore between the military of the United States and that of previous older wars. If you think that Iraq was bad, take a brief look into Vietnam.

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Why is a country like the US stand with a tyrannical country like Israel?
It goes back to the Cold War, but given the growing importance of the Middle East in the world Isreal is a vital piece in a much larger political game. That, and fear.

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Bombings in Gaza and Lebanon have happened for several decades now and most people die there by the hands of the Israeli government rather than terrorist groups like Hizb Allah.
That's because the fighting is happening near exclusively in Lebanese soil. One never wants to fight on their own home territory as it leads to countless tragic and meaningless deaths in conflict. Its one thing to send soldiers out into the field of battle many miles away, for it is only soldiers that can die and this is a risk they have chosen willingly. In ones own country its not miles away anymore, its right there. Soldiers can die, yes, but now civilians can to. The lack of training almost single handedly guarantees that civilians will die more often than soldiers, and the confusion that is bred when one of the combatants is not wearing a uniform but appears as an ordinary local hiding their weapons behind the facade of civility only grantees tragic losses.

But it goes deeper than that, even occupied the territory is still the main base of terrorism against their own country. Bombings occur weekly and tragic deaths causing civilian casualties occur every few months. The invasion was sparked by this, and until the terrorists can be rooted out and removed they will never leave. However this only opens up a vicious cycle. The reason why the terrorists are so strong there is because they can capitalize on the feelings of discontent amongst the populous so they are fighting in friendly terrain with helpful and supportive locals. Because of this the locals cease being neutral civilians in the eyes of the Israelis and are treated as hostiles. Meanwhile, these actions only help fuel the ranks of the terrorist organizations and further turn the populous against them. It won't end. This is something that has been happening for decades. If Israel leaves the attacks on them can only occur more quickly and with less interference and it will be their civilians that die instead.

Its an "Us or Them" conflict that's being fed by decades of stereotypes and bloodshed. Its sad. Another reason why the U.S. supports Israel in this is because the Israelis are incredibly friendly with us and would instantly go to war with any nation we need them to (so long as its not suicidal) with only a word, while the other groups are very unfriendly to the United States. 'Support an ally who's fighting to prevent terrorist attacks on their own homes or support a potential enemy and betray a friend?' Its not a hard choice. The results are heart wrenching, but its a choice that is the smartest move to be made.

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I honestly don't think so. Palestinian kids throwing rocks at Israeli tanks,
That's not that bad, to be honest. I'd truly be worried if there weren't a few kids throwing rocks at the tanks of their occupiers, because it would mean that Palestine had become broken.

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tens of pictures of US soldiers smiling next to dead children in Afghanistan, all that makes it clear to me.
They're all court marshaled and dishonorably discharged. You would have to be pretty ignorant of the codes of the United States Armed forces to think that that was accepted common practice and that they didn't go unpunished. I've enough family in the U.S. military to take offense if this was meant as a generalization against the U.S. military.

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Three thousand people have died in 9/11, that is tragic, but it doesn't justify the genocide committed in Afghanistan to find whoever is allegedly responsible.
Genocide? Well that's a frankly bizarre brand. Unless you categorize all forms of warfare to be genocide then its not an accurate description. I suppose you have proof of the United State's military's actions to ethnically cleanse Afghanistan? Apart from being Bizarre its also a very serious accusation, one that needs more than rhetoric and photos.

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Someone might think I'm being biased here because of my roots, but let me assure you that I hate Palestine and most Iraqis for what they did to my country in 1990, and I feel grateful for The States for their payed help, but I feel I need to say what's right here.
You're being bias, but everyone's bias in this. What's important is exchanging emotion and information. Bias is to be expected when talking about conflict, strife, and war.

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Not really. Civil wars, like Syria and Libya, only broke out last year. The civil war in Lebanon had a great Israeli influence, and the Kuwait-Iraq war wasn't as catastrophic as the bombings in Iraq, Gaza, and Afghanistan. Hell, even Bush said Iraq was a Holy War for him >,>
You may want to think a little bit more. Iraq's war was not one between the United States and Iraq, not after the first week or so. Rather, it was a three way conflict between the Kurds, the Shia, and the Sunni. The U.S. was involved in it as well, but the situation is more complex than "Iraq" and only attaching the U.S. to it. Afghanistan is a far longer standing conflict than you give it credit, its nothing less than a civil massacre that has been occurring since the 70s.

There's plenty more conflicts to show to make this point.

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I'd agree that this is mostly true. Basically, it's just greedy politicians wanting oil, and zealots in Israel killing for religious purposes. Funny, considering whothe 'zealots' in the media's eyes are :rolleyes:
Sarcasm?

The U.S. doesn't get most of its oil from the Middle East. In fact, we produce about a fourth of it ourselves. After that Mexico and Canada provide over half. Then we get more from northern South America, such as Venezuela. Our fourth one is Nigeria. Then, and only then, does the Middle East enter into the equation. The Middle East isn't important because of what it gives us, but rather what it gives our allies and trading partners. If you think we're the evil oil men, then you're mistaken. Most of them are natives of their own countries, and many of them royalty or connected to the royalty of other nations. Sure, if the Middle East stops pumping oil the global economy will be strained beyond words, but that's true for China, Japan, Germany, Canada, the U.S., Mexico, and many other important sectors of the world for their resources and services. The only difference is that the Middle East is unstable and needs the most hands on tactics to prevent the trade from stopping.

And its not religious zealotry that drives Israel, but rather nationalism and protectionism.

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The picture... needs no words. My thoughts and prayers are already sent.
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Pride
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But what you don't seem to realize is that that is rather surgical. Iraq and Afghanistan are not being invaded through old style armies of tanks, artillery, and infantry. The number of forces is kept relatively small compared to older wars, tactics are far more reserved, targets are selected more carefully than ever before. We target and incinerate buildings or city blocks rather than bombarding entire towns and cities in the hopes of attaining a target. There's a clearly defined difference that's impossible to ignore between the military of the United States and that of previous older wars. If you think that Iraq was bad, take a brief look into Vietnam.


The mean doesn't justify the result my friend. Everything pales when compared to Vietnam so that doesn't change much either.

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It goes back to the Cold War, but given the growing importance of the Middle East in the world Isreal is a vital piece in a much larger political game. That, and fear.


What positive role does Israel play in the Middle East exactly? It all started with them wanting the "right to live" and now it's Palestinians who are looking for a place to live. Israel even has/had wars with other countries like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. How exactly is it important?
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Another reason why the U.S. supports Israel in this is because the Israelis are incredibly friendly with us and would instantly go to war with any nation we need them to (so long as its not suicidal) with only a word, while the other groups are very unfriendly to the United States. 'Support an ally who's fighting to prevent terrorist attacks on their own homes or support a potential enemy and betray a friend?' Its not a hard choice. The results are heart wrenching, but its a choice that is the smartest move to be made.


Terrorism only appeared within the Middle East when Israel was implanted here. You can't deny that. It's unfair to say that Israel is on a mission to fight terrorism because that way you're saying that 4-5 countries have terrorism issues while Israel doesn't. I find that Israel using terrorism as an excuse to fight other countries and occupy their lands.
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That's not that bad, to be honest. I'd truly be worried if there weren't a few kids throwing rocks at the tanks of their occupiers, because it would mean that Palestine had become broken.


That's not how I intended my point. It proves that Palestinians are under-armed, and thus they shouldn't be considered a threat. It's not about them being broken or not.

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They're all court marshaled and dishonorably discharged. You would have to be pretty ignorant of the codes of the United States Armed forces to think that that was accepted common practice and that they didn't go unpunished. I've enough family in the U.S. military to take offense if this was meant as a generalization against the U.S. military.


Never heard of that, so sorry if you took it as an offense. Glad to see them prosecuted then.
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Genocide? Well that's a frankly bizarre brand. Unless you categorize all forms of warfare to be genocide then its not an accurate description. I suppose you have proof of the United State's military's actions to ethnically cleanse Afghanistan? Apart from being Bizarre its also a very serious accusation, one that needs more than rhetoric and photos.


Best evidence I could find:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=31636&Cr=afghan&Cr1=civilian

I don't feel like continuing this Scholar. It's just that I believe in controversies that most of your side of the world decided to put down, like those of 9/11, and I don't feel like dragging those in the thread. I also find it a hard task to find English sources proving my side of the argument. So yeah.. let's agree to disagree.
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Nice. Sounds like Mudslimes are getting a piece of their own medicine. Maybe next the Buddhists can destroy some Mudslime art and mosques to make up for the many Buddhists artifacts Mudslimes ruined.

I'm glad to see the people of Burma are doing their best to rid the world of Islam. We Europeans should learn from them.


Not very.. 'Amicable'. You're insulting a large number of members with your rude post. I'll give you warning, do it again and I'll get my first KO as a mod. And yes, I'll scream ALLAH AKBAR when I do it >,>
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scholar
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Its fair enough if you don't want to continue the discussion, I'll respect your wishes on it. However I will object to the notion that the only reason why there is terrorism in the Middle East is because of Israel, that just comes off as a little naive to me.

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Amicable, that's not acceptable in any way shape or form. I can't tell if this is sardonic humor or a reflection of a filthy heart, but it will not be tolerated.
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Shogun
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scholar
 
And its not religious zealotry that drives Israel, but rather nationalism and protectionism.

And, most importantly, an undying hatred of Islam.

I don't want to get into it seeing as this is supposed to be about the Burma massacre, but I'd go so far as to say the only reason Israel still has a strong ally in the US is because of its role as a shield in a region which poses a few threats to them (Iran), not to mention the Jewish lobby. It's also weird considering that Saudi Arabia benefits the United States lightyears beyond Israel, all Israel does is take take take and gives the US headaches and make America's interests take a backseat to theirs. And people think Muslims are overly-sensitive, probably because they're not demonstrating their sensitivity in a "legitimate" fashion. That being said, Saudi Arabia could easily kick Israel's ass more than a couple of Shi'ites like Hezbollah who picked up some leftover missiles on the side of the road. These guys hold the US's interests at heart, although they didn't always, which is why KSA-USA is a fairer marriage than Israel-USA.
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I'm glad to see the people of Burma are doing their best to rid the world of Islam. We Europeans should learn from them.

Lol good luck with that buddy. I don't blame you for saying this since your world is filled with Muslims by now and the internet is the only place where you aren't scared to voice your opinion on it.
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Lil'Richard
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What's sad is that in the Western World the moment you criticize Isreal for misconduct or overzealousness you are automatically an anti-Semite. While I understand the purpose of Zionism I felt it was handled awfully. I'm sorry to say this, the transplanting has caused too much trouble and tensions between the Jews and Muslims everywhere today are an almost direct result of that.
But yes, name any religion and there is blood associated to their name. Of course I have the distinct feeling that this atrocity would be broadcasted more broadly in the west if it were Muslims killing Buddhists.

The fact of the matter is that fundamentalism and extremists of any cause, religion, etc. are dangerous because their world is only about exterminating those who don't agree with them.
Edited by Lil'Richard, Jul 28 2012, 07:20 PM.
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Pride
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=az7ByBLGDAQ

Good documentary made by Human's Right's Watch. Thought I'd share it since I just saw it anyways. It's getting sad really.. hundreds of people are still getting killed there while the world stays put.
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Ryō Genken
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'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?'
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WEll... sorry to bring up this topic again:
As a buddhist, im ashamed at what buddhist monks do in Burma, what the hell am i doing, are they even a buddhist monk? IM not going to diss here..but its pretty much what happen if there is too MUCH majority...as in religion..it's all happening not just burma with their buddhism, it's also american with most christian and their irreligion, and Arabic countries as Islam..

It just our feeling as a human with religion feels we cant accept what theyve done, that THEY're(minority) correct, while to us(majority) arnt correct

I mean if you think that the people who practice different beliefs hurt you, then its wrong. It's all comeback to the minority itself, the one who gets all the bad luck according to your belief is HIM, not you right? Dont be acting all hero trying to convert him so that YOU can save him..
Edited by Ryō Genken, Oct 21 2012, 05:43 PM.
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