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Dynasty Warriors 8 + XL DLC; DLC is Downloadable Content
Topic Started: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:21 am (358,413 Views)
Sorccenobi
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General
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I like the idea of doubling up on unique weapons. I genuinely do. The only part about it I don't like is how they'd handle the next Orochi if every DW character had two movesets and SW only had one.
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Tessen
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Commander
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Everyone keeps debating on how two EX weapons would work when we all know it would never happen and its a ridiculous idea that doesn't even make sense in terms of the fact of what an EX weapon is, and what the purpose of the Weapon Switch system is for...

You know what would actually make this game better?
If they realized making so many weapons with such few and boring attacks, in a system where combat is so stiff at this point, is getting them nowhere!

They made the weapon switch system as a way of trying to hide the fact that the combat of this game is long past need of an overhaul and its /BORING/.

They know their combat is dated and bad at this point or they wouldn't be trying to hide it with adding another EX attack, making all these new weapons, and trying to hide it in Samurai Warriors 4 with the Godspeed gimmick.

They need to just move on, scrap the entire system, and remake it. They're using a practically 15+ year old combat system. Games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Sengoku Basara even... are proving what can be done with this genre. But they still want to stick to... square square square square square square. move to the next group. square square square square square...
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Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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my only issue with doubling up on EX weapons is that we will inevitably have clones again and that'd piss a lot of people off. I'd rather they just do away with the weapon switch all together and work on making everyone more unique than they already are. Even the little things like animations would make a big difference to me. Why they bothered to change Diaochan's running animation is beyond me...but it still bugs me. And it was likely due to needing it to be gender neutral all of a sudden.
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Mark Robin
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Legend
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Mr. Kamikaze
Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:26 pm
my only issue with doubling up on EX weapons is that we will inevitably have clones again and that'd piss a lot of people off. I'd rather they just do away with the weapon switch all together and work on making everyone more unique than they already are. Even the little things like animations would make a big difference to me. Why they bothered to change Diaochan's running animation is beyond me...but it still bugs me. And it was likely due to needing it to be gender neutral all of a sudden.
Could be possible of having that issue before, but you know that there are few weapons that are weaponless which they are belong to CAW by the time it comes with Empires. The most possible chance is that there will be new characters will get those weapons (which people are pissed), but they update the moveset or change up some of them like how they did to Han Dang's weapon.

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GambitCajun
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The Child of the Moon, the Wolf Slaying Deer Warrior!
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Yes, and they ruined the Short Pike. People like the DLC weapons as they are, some people are just so anal and petty that they'll have 'Less new things'.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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Ruined? :no:

I think the short pike now is the best, way more fun. I'd say the only move from the DLC i miss is the C5, that whirlwind thing was cool and way more effective. But as a whole, Han Dang's short pike is awesome.
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GambitCajun
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The Child of the Moon, the Wolf Slaying Deer Warrior!
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If by awesome you mean 'utterly and completely useless and dangerous' then yes.
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jacob3178259
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Tessen
Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:23 pm
Everyone keeps debating on how two EX weapons would work when we all know it would never happen and its a ridiculous idea that doesn't even make sense in terms of the fact of what an EX weapon is, and what the purpose of the Weapon Switch system is for...

You know what would actually make this game better?
If they realized making so many weapons with such few and boring attacks, in a system where combat is so stiff at this point, is getting them nowhere!

They made the weapon switch system as a way of trying to hide the fact that the combat of this game is long past need of an overhaul and its /BORING/.

They know their combat is dated and bad at this point or they wouldn't be trying to hide it with adding another EX attack, making all these new weapons, and trying to hide it in Samurai Warriors 4 with the Godspeed gimmick.

They need to just move on, scrap the entire system, and remake it. They're using a practically 15+ year old combat system. Games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Sengoku Basara even... are proving what can be done with this genre. But they still want to stick to... square square square square square square. move to the next group. square square square square square...
Then what's the point of it even being a Warriors game if they change that? I know I still love the system the way it is and many others do to and making the additions they're doing now is just fine. Why scrap the entire system when you can just make a new IP AND make Warriors games with the charge attack system? No matter what they do, there will always be charge attacks in these games, if people didn't like it they wouldn't buy the games.
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Erminaz
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Emperor's Retainer
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Tessen
Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:23 pm
Everyone keeps debating on how two EX weapons would work when we all know it would never happen and its a ridiculous idea that doesn't even make sense in terms of the fact of what an EX weapon is, and what the purpose of the Weapon Switch system is for...

You know what would actually make this game better?
If they realized making so many weapons with such few and boring attacks, in a system where combat is so stiff at this point, is getting them nowhere!

They made the weapon switch system as a way of trying to hide the fact that the combat of this game is long past need of an overhaul and its /BORING/.

They know their combat is dated and bad at this point or they wouldn't be trying to hide it with adding another EX attack, making all these new weapons, and trying to hide it in Samurai Warriors 4 with the Godspeed gimmick.

They need to just move on, scrap the entire system, and remake it. They're using a practically 15+ year old combat system. Games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Sengoku Basara even... are proving what can be done with this genre. But they still want to stick to... square square square square square square. move to the next group. square square square square square...
I actually agree with this view, especially the part about weapon switch.

Weapon switch was introduced in 7 because Koei thought it would make it less obvious that they were taking DW back to PS2 gameplay. It's clear, it was "let's throw in weapon switch so something feels fresh". Weapon switch isn't even needed in DW, it was needed in Strikeforce because Strikeforce was built for using the bow, but DW isn't.

As for the charge system, I think it can stay but it needs some improvements so that it's not the same stale set-up for every character. There should be more variety of moves that require different button presses. The way they did some characters in DW8, Yinping and (albeit tricky) Ding Feng in particular were good.

The combat does need an overhaul, it does. It's so stale.
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Mark Robin
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GambitCajun
Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:19 am
If by awesome you mean 'utterly and completely useless and dangerous' then yes.
Actually it's more "scary" when you use Han dang's angry expression. It's actually fun despite of useless.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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God of War
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GambitCajun
Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:19 am
If by awesome you mean 'utterly and completely useless and dangerous' then yes.
:nope: Almost as bad as all them Ina haters.

Han Dang did get that new invincibility EX move though, that is pretty handy.
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GambitCajun
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The Child of the Moon, the Wolf Slaying Deer Warrior!
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Dangerous as in you are open to attack three quarters of the time you are using the weapon, that's not fun.

Strikeforce was not built for using the bow, you never once need the bow if you know how to play Strikeforce.

If you remove weapon switch you can kiss the gimmicks like the ring blade and Yinping's staff good bye, why would you need gimmicks when every character is locked into one weapon and 'unique'.

@Kami: HEY, DON'T PUT ME IN WITH THOSE DOUCHBAGS! Ina's moveset is amazing if you LEARN how to use it, the problem is Han Dang's isn't.
Edited by GambitCajun, Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:43 am.
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Ryō Genken
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GambitCajun
Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:41 am
If you remove weapon switch you can kiss the gimmicks like the ring blade and Yinping's staff good bye, why would you need gimmicks when every character is locked into one weapon and 'unique'.
UNIQUE in terms of how the move executed.

If we compare ring blade to let's say dao of course Ring blade is more complex and you need to learn how to execute it at a right time.

If we compare dual headed mace to let's say club, of course dual headed mace is more unique too because you need to rotate the analog stick so that the attack is more better.

You need to hit every enemies with the sabatons before you can execute another string of attack.

Flame bow gives you mobility compared to the normal bow.

It's how the playstyle of each character unique. And i wish DW9 they get rid of weapon switch and give unique gimmicks to each character.
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SnowMan
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Weapon switch stays. It adds uniqueness when you don't abuse it, in my opinion. Every one of my characters has a different setup so no two characters are the same. I can't go back to single weapons, I just can't. I need the bow AND the sword on Huang Zhong, the three-sectioned staff AND the nunchaku on Ling Tong, the mace AND the twin axes on Pang De, and so on. I don't know why anyone here complaining about depth in the gameplay would want to take moves away from everyone by removing an entire moveset from each character. Not to mention the switch attack.

If you don't like it, fine. Never switch your weapon. Or equip two of the same weapon on each character. But don't cripple the freedom of choice for someone like me who loves it.

Edited by SnowMan, Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:50 am.
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Ryō Genken
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@SnowMan:
Well it's your opinion, don't worry i just hope that Weapon Switch system/gimmick was locked into one character(Like Sima Fu, or someone else) as a gimmick to that character.

The reason i want weapon switch to be gone are simple:
1) The weapon sizes are TOO BIG(So that it'll fit characters like Meng Huo)
2) It lacks this unique stance/walking, this is possibly just cosmetic things, but i don't really like how Flute running animation it looks too stiff for Zhenji. It kind of gives personality to the character itself with the way they walk. Though Twin Fans kinda give that Xiaoqiao's aura again with the running animation.

That's too say knowing KOEI, they don't want to remove the system where they can make a goldmine out of it(Weapon DLC) why do i feel dejavu when i'm saying this?
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Gracia Hosokawa
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Samurai Mother
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I'm sorry (not really) but if you play warriors games by just pressing square then you're not doing it right.

I never play by just hitting square, that's stupid. The combos you get from charge attacks are awesome, so are the charges themselves. No one just presses square im so tired of hearing that from reviewers and people who are just looking for a chance to bash (shade implied) and compare it to DMC, Sengoku Basara or some other series. Its a WARRIORS series so it should stray from what works for the series.

I think the current system is fine, if they were to do anything I would just like instead of ex moves to have an ex moveset where the ex user would get an entirely different moveset than the rest of the cast for their designated moveset. Also fixed 1st weapon type would be good IMO. So that people have to have the ex weapon type and then the second slot is open for change. It would make the characters seem more unique than just bases for the weapons.
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FKA
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OCTOPUSSY
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Lol @ people still pressed at the weapon switch system.

The only flaw I can find is that characters don't have their own special attacks ala WO/SW (Ex attacks don't count because they're tied to the weapon) that can be used no matter what weapon is equipped.

Oh and the fact that Strikeforce's weapon switch system (specifically how you built up your affinity with each type) >>>> .

The other flaws I find with the gameplay have nothing to do with this so I'm fine if it remains for the next 5 games tbh.

I'd rather Koei temper this feature more instead of scrapping it again like the Renbu system.
Edited by FKA, Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:02 am.
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RPGNoZero
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Emperor's Retainer
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Maybe they could add "EX Moveset" instead of Ex attack. Like let's say you choose to use Guan Ping with Great Sword, he can choose to use Zanbato moveset or generic great sword moveset. While other characters can only use generic moveset for Great Sword without any access to Zanbato moveset.
But that means they need to double the number of moveset eeh....

I don't really mind weapon switch as long as there are no characters sharing same weapon type like in DW6&7 anymore. Plus, many of unique gimmick are sucks or annoying annyway. Something like Chen Gong's scroll is suited more as secondary weapon for example. Pairing him with Lu Bu and Zhang Liao whose weapon are overpowered without needing any gimmick makes him looks like a joke.
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Mr. Kamikaze
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I like the weapon switch, I would just rather do away with it if we're gonna start pushing for doubling up on EX weapons and forcing characters to once again share a weapon with another character, all because some people want some characters to get old weapons back but don't want them to lose the weapon they have now. It's more of a personal preference things, im not saying its better one way or the other...cause more than likely I'd get over it fairly quickly...im not that hard to please.
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FKA
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OCTOPUSSY
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RPGNoZero
Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:06 am
Maybe they could add "EX Moveset" instead of Ex attack. Like let's say you choose to use Guan Ping with Great Sword, he can choose to use Zanbato moveset or generic great sword moveset. While other characters can only use generic moveset for Great Sword without any access to Zanbato moveset.
But that means they need to double the number of moveset eeh....

I don't really mind weapon switch as long as there are no characters sharing same weapon type like in DW6&7 anymore. Plus, many of unique gimmick are sucks or annoying annyway. Something like Chen Gong's scroll is suited more as secondary weapon for example. Pairing him with Lu Bu and Zhang Liao whose weapon are overpowered without needing any gimmick makes him looks like a joke.
@point 1: lol you know Koei are not going to such lengths so as to create an extra 80-something movesets. At most I'd rather them create some slight variations in the way the weapon is handled (small characters who wield big weapons drag them, more feminine characters wielding the weapons in a feminine way, etc).

@point 2: Well obviously if you're going to approach the scroll in the same way you'd use the twin halberds you're going to have a bad time. Not every weapon is made to blast 50 peons away in 2 seconds, and quite frankly I'm glad for the diversity.
Edited by FKA, Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:13 am.
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SnowMan
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Mizushima Toru
Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:56 am
@SnowMan:
Well it's your opinion, don't worry i just hope that Weapon Switch system/gimmick was locked into one character(Like Sima Fu, or someone else) as a gimmick to that character.

The reason i want weapon switch to be gone are simple:
1) The weapon sizes are TOO BIG(So that it'll fit characters like Meng Huo)
2) It lacks this unique stance/walking, this is possibly just cosmetic things, but i don't really like how Flute running animation it looks too stiff for Zhenji. It kind of gives personality to the character itself with the way they walk. Though Twin Fans kinda give that Xiaoqiao's aura again with the running animation.

That's too say knowing KOEI, they don't want to remove the system where they can make a goldmine out of it(Weapon DLC) why do i feel dejavu when i'm saying this?
The weapon sizes are incredibly stupid, I agree. But you can't blame that on the switch system, that's just a poor design choice by the devs. You can shrink all the weapons that need shrunken and keep the system in place without any problems.

I've only had two problems in regards to your second point. First is the flute animations, which aren't great for Zhen. My other problem is that the cross halberds don't fit Lu Bu, which annoys me since I gave that to him as his second weapon. But the first point can be fixed by "feminizing" the flute animations and the second point is just me nitpicking since it isn't his weapon anymore. Anything else can be attributed to poor design choices and not blamed on the switch system, like character stances (Xu Huang, ugh.)

And weapon DLC is the great white hope for me. As long as they keep putting them out the weapon switch isn't going anywhere.
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Ryō Genken
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@SnowMan:
Like i said, i don't like Flute animation, that's not Zhenji,when did Zhenji ever slide on her knees???If it was Wenji(well her awakening musou ending has her sliding) i can understand it, but Zhenji who dislikes getting her clothes dirty? The gender-fixed thing on DW7, it's not stupid it's good because they can locked the female's weapon such as the Dagger-axe(This one too,ah Yueying... >.< ) and flute to female, but...KOEI suddenly being lazy and only locked the whip and greatsword, thus rendered the question,"why you even put it in the first place?" as a result Diaochan's running animation also tweaked slightly(I don't like her running animation in DW8 now)

About Cross halberd, an interesting tidbit about that weapon, when i first saw it in DW6, it hits me that sure it's good but,IMO Lu Bu doesn't fit that weapon, it looks like a weapon where a small brutish girl would be perfect wielding it, and i though to myself if Lingqi is added she'll get this weapon. And it turns out to be true.

I still stand to my wish that DW9,they'll get rid of weapon switch,make that weapon switch gimmick to one character.
Edited by Ryō Genken, Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:25 am.
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FKA
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OCTOPUSSY
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Mizushima Toru
Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:23 am
I still stand to my wish that DW9,they'll get rid of weapon switch,make that weapon switch gimmick to one character.
This reminds me of all those people who wished that the renbu system was scrapped instead of being improved on. There was potential there, but everyone was so pressed they opted for a regression.

And I think that is incredibly stupid.
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Sonicthesneak
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So... the return of the Stone Pillar as a weapon is a welcome addition but it also resurrects a dead horse issue: the weapon switch system. I think that right now we're in a decent place. Everyone right now has their own unique weapon and separates them from everyone else. They fixed the mistake of DW6 and killed the ghosts that followed them.

Now Koei can do a few options. Knowing Koei... what do you think they will actually do?

1) Keep everyone with current weapons and introduce new characters to take up the DLC weapons.

2) Keep the weapons as DLC.

3) Revamp the whole weapon system.

4) Tweak the EX system. Example: If everyone gets 3 EX's in DW9, 2 EX's can go to one weapon (like already established in DW8:XL) and the 3rd new EX could go to a character's "secondary" EX. So if Meng Huo kept the Gloves and got the Stone Pillar as his secondary: 1 EX for Stone Pillar and 2EX for Gloves. That way, no weapon is currently discarded.

5) The DLC weapons that we're getting in DW8 are just dropped going forward.

Personally. I think # 1 is going to happen. I could settle for # 4. And considering how DW6 was received, I rather they not go with route # 3 again.

But I think for now, people should should just enjoy the nice equilibrium that we have now. If anything... that just means that DW8:E is going to be freaking amazing. The amount of freedom will be glorious.
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Gracia Hosokawa
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Samurai Mother
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Por que no los dos? Lol why not do something to benefit those who like the switch but also want ex moves for both weapon and have an "ex switch move" like if you were say, SSX and had the wheels as her first weapon and the bow as her second then when you'd hit the switch button she'd do a different type of switch attack into using the bow, with the attack utilizing both weapons! Just a thought :)
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