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| Sweet/New Moves!; My Hand Glows with an Awesome Power... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Tue Oct 1, 2013 6:20 pm (3,027 Views) | |
| Re4_Wesker | Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:19 pm Post #51 |
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Antagonist?
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Lol. I never actually compared Heero to either Amuro or Kira. I simply stated that you could re word that statement and the same would be true about Kira. However, since you have such a hate on for Heero and Wing and praise Kira and Seed ( Because really, that's what you have been doing this entire time.), i'll clarify. "Kira as this skillfully omnipotent warrior god who can't be matched in any form of battle." This is exactly what Kira was made out to be and frankly it's disgusting. By the time Destiny rolls around, Kira drops everything like its a joke. He drops Athrun, who was supposed to be an equal to Kira, within seconds. Heck the only foe he outright had trouble with in Destiny was Shinn and even then, Kira instantly overcame that later when he encountered Shinn in the Destiny Gundam. In fact, Kira has had his own losses as well. He's been knocked around by Athrun on several occasions in Seed, the druggies have given him trouble on several occasions, and finally Rau literally toys with Kira for the entire final battle. He tear's apart the Meteor like its nothing, picks and prods at Kira while mocking his philosophy, and finally even kills Flay on a whim just because he can. Heck the entire reason Rau lost was because he was overconfident and missed the opportunities to end the battle. So no, in reality Kira isn't as good as people make him out to be (atleast until Destiny where so much of the series simply breaks).
Come on now this one is obvious. The Strike versus Aegis battle? the Freedom vs Providence battle? And of course the Freedom vs Impulse battle. There's no way a person could survive these events. And I know that you will fall back to the argument that Astray tried to explain Kira's survival of the Aegis battle but even then, its simply too much to swallow. Kira's cockpit was torn open. If it wasn't the blast shockwave that would have killed him then it would have been the heat or heck even the fall would have killed him. For that matter, Athrun shouldn't have survived that explosion either because he was caught up in the shockwave as he was pulling out. This is no better than Heero surviving self destruction. In fact, if anything, Wing merely opened the door for some of the crap they did in the CE series. If you want to blame wing for anything, you can blame it for that. In the Freedom vs Providence battle he's caught up in a laser that should have flat out killed him as it did with countless others who were caught up in it in the past. Instead by the end of it he's seen floating out in space, completely fine. And finally, the worst one is the Freedom vs Impulse battle and you know what? I'm not even going to argue this one. Just watch this vid and argue the events out with this guy instead. He'd be more than happy to argue it with you i'm sure. Just jump to 12:22 to get to the heart of it (the rest is fairly interesting and entertaining as well though) Now back to your arguments. As usual you've made sweeping statements about Heero's abilities without even listing off the events where he actually did use melee. I already said that Milliardo has piloted Wing Zero before so I thought that would have reminded you of the reverse that was Heero piloting Epyon for a while as well. Heck Joshelplex even blatantly brought it up and you've simply ignored it. http://www.veoh.com/watch/v52364530wnXzZ9ec What Heero just stomped on grunts for the start of that fight? Well yes and no. Yes those were mass production models, but they were also Mobile Dolls, which were a force to be reckoned with in that series. Mobile Dolls had reaction times far faster than normal pilots and were a constant problem for most of the Wing characters. I'm sure you will say something like they aren't so good or don't match up to normal Ace pilots but we really have nothing to gauge that by. Mobile Dolls have for the most part only appeared in Wing. The only character who actually did beat down a Mobile Doll easily right off the bat was Treize and he was already a extremely talented pilot to begin with. The other characters eventually figured out how to beat them though but guess what? It actually takes skill to figure out how to beat a mobile doll. Then there's the fact that Heero matched Milliardo in that fight. What I said prior about Wing Zero have melee capabilities comes into effect here as well because as you can clearly see, Milliardo uses Wing Zero differently than Heero does. And before you say that Milliardo was about to end that fight, we really have no proof of that. Saying that would be like saying that Ribbons Almark could have ended the final fight just because he said he was better than everyone else, which was clearly wasn't the case. Then of course there's this fight: Heero keeps Zechs at bay while Trowa levels all the mobile dolls in the area. In fact Zechs doesn't even land a hit on them. And by the time that Zechs realizes what they've done he knows that the fight will be far more trouble than what its worth so he surrenders. Heck, Zech's even remarks on how much skill it takes to do what they've done.
Or maybe because the Heavy Arms vs. Tallgeese fight was a early fight to begin with that Heero wasn't skilled enough to take Zechs at the time and eventually improved? You know, like in the two links I just showed you? Heero does get better over the course of the series so by the time of the final battle it makes sense that he should atleast be able to do some damage to Epyon. So this is really just natural pilot growth. Of course i'm not trying to argue that Heero is the greatest pilot out there either. I'm simply stating that he isn't as terrible as you keep trying to make him out to be. In spite of the fact that Heero does improve, Milliardo is still better at melee than him. Maybe it was a stroke of luck, maybe it was Milliardo's intention to lose that fight to begin with, or maybe for once Heero just managed to get the better of Milliardo? Whichever it is, its up to the viewer. This doesn't change the fact however that Wufei still knocked Heero around in EW, showing us that Heero isn't a fantastic melee fighter. Which is what I've been trying to get at to begin with. He isn't. His stats in DWG however should be a little more balanced out. I'm not saying that he should get a stat boost either, i'm saying that a few points should be shaved off of shot and given to melee. Probably the funniest thing about all of this is that I don't really like Wing all of that much. It's an okay series but it isn't one of my favorites. Yet for some bizarre reason I keep seeing Wing treated rather unfairly by you Tyrox. If you don't like it that's fine. However if you intend to argue it, be sure that you actually have grounds to do so. |
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| Atoric | Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:42 pm Post #52 |
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Soldier
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Actually just re watched the last episode of Wing because my memory was a bit fuzzy. Zechs did the same thing Treize did with Wu Fei when he was charging Heero. The entire fight Zechs was saying he had to die to finish it, so he charged Heero intending to die, he didn't attack. The only difference being Heero took an arm instead of killing him. Given Heero's beam saber was out of power, and his ammo was gone Zechs would have had Heero dead to rights if he wanted to. The dolls aren't a match for an ace, but part of the reason the dolls were so dangerous was that you didn't fight one of them, you fought a perfectly coordinated squad. Every main character in every series I've seen has moments you can't really buy as believable. Some more than others obviously, but Kira and Heero both have a lot of them. But personal bias comes into it to. The one time Kira and Athrun fought and were actually trying to kill each other they were perfectly matched until Athrun decided it was worth dying himself to win and latched onto Kira and self destructed. Every other time Kira trashed Athrun, Athrun wasn't as committed. |
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| Re4_Wesker | Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:11 pm Post #53 |
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Antagonist?
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Pretty much. The entire idea was for Zechs and Treize to lose and their respective sides to be defeated. Zechs and Treize wanted to be killed by foes who deserved to beat them. Treize purposely lost to Wufei and Zechs went out of his way to lose to Heero. Heero however spared him and the battle ended that way because there was no honor in one of them killing the other at that point. A victory at that point would have been meaningless.
My point being that they were a force to be reckoned with and that they did require skill and ability to take down. They weren't merely grunts.
Actually, Athrun was going to laser Kira point blank and kill him but his suit ran out of energy. As such Athrun had no choice but to self destruct and bail. So actually if it weren't for energy problems, Athrun would have won that battle to. and no, Kira never actually beat Athrun in Seed. In one of the first engagements of the series Athrun fought Kira and defeated him. Athrun captured Kira with Aegis and threatened to destroy him if he struggled. |
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| All i do is Train | Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:04 am Post #54 |
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Elite Soldier
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^ 2 things need to be cleared up... 1. Kira never got hit by genesis - what was depicted was to show how Kira barely out the way. 2. Minerva's cannon hitting the water is what caused that explosion, not Freedom blowing up. Haters see what they want to see (also applys to the first.) . And are you really using someone who is a trained soldier and pilot to someone who was just starting out as a pilot at that point in the series to feed your argument? Really? |
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| Re4_Wesker | Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:42 am Post #55 |
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Antagonist?
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1. that one can be left up to interpretation but the blast still blew off chunks of the Freedom. Given how the damage of that blast caused people to actually explode, it seems unlikely that Kira could have gotten out of that unscathed. 2. LOL. Now that's a new one. However thats obviously false as well because that weapon would not make an explosion that massive and it most definitely wouldn't cause a mushroom cloud. Fanboys see what they want to see (that applies to the first). Oh yeah that was clearly a large explosion that that the Minerva's cannon caused. Oh and delayed to. For sure. 3:47 is where the actual explosion happens from the cannon fire hitting the water. If you do want to argue about it though, I suggest you do it with him. I have no time nor interest for arguments about Destiny. Not nearly as much as I used to.
I think you are missing the entire point. Kira became a pilot who could drop foes almost instantly in Destiny. That's the problem especially because it clashes with how he dealt with pilots back in Seed. Athrun and Kira were often matched in Seed and yet Destiny it becomes a no contest for Kira. Unless you are making the argument between Kira and Heero and in that case, i'm only comparing the fact that Kira has had his own number of unexplained moments of survival than Heero has. |
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| All i do is Train | Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:28 am Post #56 |
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Elite Soldier
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So you can't totally disprove what I said. So I guess I shouldn't see it brought up again then. And you better go look at someone else on this board if you want to see the definition of a fanboy, nice try.
If you actually look and place close attention - you can see traces from Minerva's Tannhauser. And there's a further explanation for how it would cause such a big explosion. But coming from someone who acts like this is something new that has not been brought up EVER! Is facepalm worthy. Why bother explaining it?
I did not care about discussing Destiny, I just wanted to point out those two miss conceptions. So I'm done here.
I was referring to where you was comparing them to each other as a pilot - as to why are you using the begining of Seed where Athrun was trained and had experience compared to someone who was just starting out.
I'm not. Well, I'm done here. I don't want and try to derail threads like some people. Edited by All i do is Train, Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:30 am.
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| BlackKite | Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:30 am Post #57 |
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長宗我部菜々
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![]() Hey, aren't we getting a bit off-topic here? This topic is supposed to discuss about possible new/changed movesets for GW games, but it seems like lately it's been derailed into yet another Wing-SEED debate. So it'd be better to either cut that discussion or move it to the general board. Time to put this topic back on rail. Thanks for your understanding Speaking of which SF & IJ have been confirmed to equip METEOR for their Burst Modes, but I wonder how the movesets will be then, maybe they'll become MA-class movesets? |
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| All i do is Train | Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:32 am Post #58 |
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Elite Soldier
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I'm still wondering if SF's and IJ's METEOR'S will differ from each other. |
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| Abyss4 | Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:54 am Post #59 |
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Elite Soldier
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I wouldn't bank on it, but if they do, I can see Strike Freedom's being more ranged based and Infinite Justice's being more melee based, since Kira usually goes for precise ranged attacks, while I remember Athrun using the beam swords of METEOR a fair amount. |
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| All i do is Train | Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:15 am Post #60 |
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Elite Soldier
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In "Rengou vs Zaft 2 plus" they have some different moves between em, and in Ex Vs Full Boost - their METEOR Ex Burst attacks differ from each other. So it's possible. |
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| Re4_Wesker | Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:32 am Post #61 |
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Antagonist?
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I would like to think they would be different yeah. I suspect that they will also gain MA class move sets now that MA's are playable. SDGO also has different setups for the Meteor versions for the Freedom and Justice and while admittedly they are entirely different games, it would be nice if they were different in the way that their Meteor's operate. Edit: Although i'm really not sure if a MA style moveset for a burst could actually showcase everything a Meteor has. Beam Swords, Missile Launchers, and Beam cannons. Not sure if that works with a MA setup. It might though. Edited by Re4_Wesker, Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:45 am.
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| tyrox9 | Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:50 am Post #62 |
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SUPER!~ General
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I imagine METEOR S Strings will be similar to how NT-D mode or Trans-Am gave their units extended range on attacks, with the METEOR Swords that is. so some big swiping strikes will likely ensue. I think whoever said the shooting/melee difference between SF and IJ was on the money there. I imagine SF Meteor will utilize the guns more for charge attacks, while IJ Meteor performs more special, wide melee strikes. Chances are, the key difference between them is gonna be the SPs. Im willing to bet that SF, and even regular freedom if seed gets meteor too, will use the METEOR Full Burst/ Super METEOR Full Burst, where it fired off its 4 beam cannons, the SF/Freedom's beam cannons + railgun, and the 77 Missile Launch alla tonce, + Super Dragoons for SF. While IJ/Justice METEOR(s) will likely use The METEOR Dash that Athrun seems often associated with, where it thrusts forward with the long METEOR Sword impaling forward. |
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| DoUbLe Zz Mk2 | Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:35 pm Post #63 |
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First Lieutenant
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I think the other biggest change will be in the arial string, since theres confirmation of a full string in the air aswell, i also wounder does that also mean that they will have charge attack in the air aswell??? |
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| Kuroda | Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:40 pm Post #64 |
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General
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I'm still a bit skeptical on if the METEORs will play well in this type of game. |
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