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The Shin Gundam Musou Tiering Project
Topic Started: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:07 am (16,059 Views)
LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
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129 playable suits, with more on the way.

75 pilots with unique sets of unlockable skills.

One (or more) person(s) crazy enough to try and set all of them into specific tiers, and in fact thinking of tiering all of them twice.

Without going into too much detail, I just want to say I'm considering creating two different tier lists with different methodologies.

One tier list I'm tentatively calling the Unbanned tier list, where no particular features (skills, moves, etc.) are banned. Anything can and will go.

The other list I'm (again) tentatively calling the Banned list, where if we discover something crazily pseudo-gamebreaking like Sonic Boost was in the past game, or there's something else the community wants expressly removed from/adjusted for consideration, then we're gonna pretend it doesn't exist in the hopes that we can better observe MS on their "individual merits," as that logic goes.

For the current version of the preliminary UB tier list, please go here.

For the hard-tested version of any tier list, please wait until Shin Gundam Musou gets released in the States so we can get more data from a wider set of people.

For a general changelog, go here.
Edited by LordKarasuman, Sat Jan 4, 2014 7:10 pm.
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Zeik Liberated
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Enjoyed this last time so will certainly keep up with it and who knows once my copy arrives I might try and help out.
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Wild Lion
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Wait, why would anything be banned? This is not a competitive game, so there should be no concerns about "balance"
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Master Omega
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You could say it's out of curiosity. Last game, Sonic Boost made every unit usable in the extreme, so it might be a good idea to see which units don't need broken skills.

Either way, I'll be waiting to see some results. Though I'm still waiting on the pilot stats O_O
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LordKarasuman
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Black Lion
Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:15 am
Wait, why would anything be banned? This is not a competitive game, so there should be no concerns about "balance"


That was indeed my original logic.

However, I'm doing a Banned list out of deference to the people who had called for Sonic Boost to be banned in DWG3, and for Typhoon to be banned in WO3. And let me tell you, there were a lot of them. :beard:
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sion13
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personally, I won't really call for a ban on those skills. just don't use them. not everyone is as good a player as others. some need the extra boost to enjoy the game even more.
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LordKarasuman
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Now that I've got the S Rank farming circuit going, I've come to the realization that I wasn't paying attention to missions all that well. One that has groups, regular enemy Aces, Battleships, and MAs all in the same mission would be a good way to test the effectiveness of each suit all at once. ... and I don't remember a mission that has all of them at the same time. Anyone remember a good one?
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LordKarasuman
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Baund Doc

Required Skills?: None
Recommended Skills?: Knockdown, Snipe, Concentration, Resonance, Guts, Beginner's Faux Pas, Airmaster, Hard Strike, High Tension, DG Cells, Psychic, Fighting Instinct

1v1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC5IZSHHxmA
MAs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZUJYtPgkvM
General: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRZfuAoyqw8

Group BnBs
Dash Charge -> Charge Shot Cancel -> Dash Cancel -> Repeat
GSP/Ground Burst

Ace BnBs
MA Mode Shot (ad inf. until Powered Down) -> Dash Charge -> Charge Shot Cancel -> Dash Charge -> Charge Shot Cancel -> Dash Cancel Away
MA Mode Shot (ad inf. until Powered Down) -> Dash Charge into Dash Cancel x2 -> Dash Cancel Away
GSP/Ground Burst(No Partner) w/Knockdown -> Dash Charge into Dash Cancel x2 -> Dash Cancel Away
[Risky] MA Mode Shot (ad inf. until Powered Down) -> Dash Charge into Dash Cancel (ad inf. until Thruster almost out) -> Dash Cancel Away
[Risky] GSP/Ground Burst(No Partner) w/Knockdown-> Dash Charge into Dash Cancel (ad inf. until Thruster almost out) -> Dash Cancel Away

MAs
GSP/Ground Burst

Overview
Though the Zeong has faltered, the Baund Doc remains not only high tier, but is a borderline God-tier suit.

Thanks to MA mode, Baund Doc can defeat singular Aces and engage multiple Aces meterless with very minimized chances of retaliation.

Baund Doc also counters MA enemies hard. There isn't a single one that stands a chance against it even at 8-Star difficulty, even if you don't go in with either of the MA-relevant skills. In fact, Baund Doc's SP does plenty of damage to everything in general. The only reason it looks like it doesn't is due to purple buff, which quite frankly was very annoying in previous games, and double annoying in this game only because it's friggin' everywhere.

The reason you don't want to use Partners is because you want to start comboing immediately with Knockdown setting enemies into Powered Down status.

Rank
God--/God--/God--
Edited by LordKarasuman, Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:08 am.
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Zeik Liberated
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So is there no big single final mission in ultimate mode this time around? How powered up was this Bound Doc? Didn't get a great look but it didn't look maxed.

And blinking heck MA mode seems much better to control this time around and might be a good boost for a suit to have access to.
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LordKarasuman
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Every stat on the Baund Doc was maxed save for Defense and Armor, of which it really doesn't need more than one body part upgrade of either.

And yeah, MA mode got a buff in how easily it handles, and may be key to a lot of transformable MAs' strategies.

Sadly, that 1v1 video depicts the final mission in Ultimate Mode, which I suppose makes it hardest. There was a map before it that I guess could be the equivalent to the usual cluster****, but it was quite frankly very standard and in line with all the other missions once you're able to 8-star everything.

However, I will say that the 1v1 stage is probably quite difficult for a lot of machines that don't have MA mode or ARE MAs. This is because of the fact that Knight and the Mushas go into rage mode from the very beginning instead of at red health, plus enemy Aces being harder to hitstun in general. It makes the usual tactics that we've used in prior DWG games rather... ineffective. In normal maps, the solution is just to build meter on grunts and then SP down Aces, but in a 1v1 situation with no grunts and no pickups from Aces (notice that Knight and Musha Mk. II drop nothing), well...
Edited by LordKarasuman, Wed Jan 1, 2014 12:22 am.
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Zeik Liberated
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I guess those are the least useful stats at the end of the day just wanted to check^^

Ah I see that's a shame on the mission front, it was good in 3 for comparing time taken to clear, guess that will make pilots with serene mind/psychic or whatever better suited to that last mission when using normal MS then.
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LordKarasuman
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Preliminary UB Tier List

This Tier List is almost certainly subject to change, and does not represent a perfectly thorough examination of each Mobile Suit due to the structure of the game. It should instead be used as a cursory glance of what you might expect out of a Mobile Suit's performance at high-level play, but of course, Your Mileage May Vary.

Criteria

  • Final Mission of True Gundam Warrior is being used as benchmark to test 1v1 capability under a stress environment with few pickups.
  • Mission 3 of Rampaging Destroy Gundam! is being used as a benchmark since Destroy is one of the most difficult MAs in the game and you fight three of them in it.
  • Mission 3B of Inherit the School of Master Asia! is being used as a benchmark since it involves a 1v3 against Aces with no Grunts to build meter from.
  • Final Mission of Earth Descent Operation is being used as a benchmark to test capability against Groups. The mission vs. the Druggies is also a useful DPS test with a guaranteed chance of showing up.


Vs. Groups (of Grunts and Aces)


  • God: A warrior worth a thousand.
  • S: Can handle groups of grunts accompanied by Aces.
  • A: Can handle groups of grunts accompanied by an Ace, but multiple Aces may present a hazard.
  • B: Can handle groups of grunts, but may have trouble with an Ace.
  • C: Has trouble with grunts, and will certainly have trouble with an Ace present.
  • D: Will need Interim Saves.
  • F: Cannot deal with groups.


Vs. Aces (No Grunts)


  • God: True Gundam Warrior.
  • S: Can handle 1v3.
  • A: Can handle 1v1.
  • B: Can handle 1v1 with the right skillset.
  • C: 1v1 is troublesome, but doable, with the right skillset.
  • D: Will need Interim Saves.
  • F: Cannot do 1v1.


Vs. MAs


  • God: The greater the enemy, the harder they fall.
  • S: Can obliterate MAs without a thought, regardless of skillset.
  • A: Can do very well against MAs.
  • B: Can do very well against MAs with the right skillset.
  • C: Has trouble with MAs, but can fight them with the right skillset.
  • D: Will need Interim Saves.
  • F: Cannot fight MAs.



Key
[Mobile Suit Name]: [Rating vs. Groups]/[Rating vs. Aces]/[Rating vs. MAs]


Arios: B/A/S Writeup [Rated by Black Lion]
Banshee: S+/S--/A++ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Barzam: C/C/C- [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Baund Doc: God--/God--/God-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Bawoo: B+/B+/B- [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Bawoo (Glemmy's Forces): B-/B+/C- [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Bawoo (Axis Forces): B-/B+/C- [Rated by LordKarasuman
Big Zam: A/A/C Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Bolinoak Sammahn: A+/C+/B+ [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Buster: S-/S/A++ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Byalant: C--/C+/C-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Calamity: B--/C--/B Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Chaos: B/S/B- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Death Army: B++/B++/B++ [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Deathscythe Hell: S-/S-/A Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Delta Plus: A/S-/B+ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Destroy: S/S/B [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Double X: A+/C/B [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Gaia: S--/S-/S-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Geara Doga (Rezin): C/B+/B Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Geara Zulu: A+/C-/B+ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Geara Zulu (Angelo Sauper): A+/B-/C--
Gelgoog (Johnny Ridden): B+/C--/B Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Ginn: C++/B++/B [Rated by LordKarasuman]
God: God-/God/God- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Gyan: D--/C--/A- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Hambrabi: S++/B--/B-- [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Heavyarms Kai: B+/C/B Writeup [Rated by Heat]
Knight Gundam: S/A/S [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Kshatriya: A+/B--/B-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Master: God/God++/God Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Musha Gundam: S/S/B++ [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Musha Mk. II: A/B/C+ [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Neo's Windam: B/C/C [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Nu: S+/S/S-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Providence: A+/A/B++ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Psyco Gundam: S-/S--/B- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Qubeley (Haman): A/A/S++ Writeup [Rated by Heat]
Raider: B++/A++/C Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Seravee: S++/B+/C+ Writeup [Rated by Heat]
Sinanju: A/C++/A++ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Strike Freedom: B+/B++/B Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Susanowo: S+/S--/God++ [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Unicorn: S/S--/A+ Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Wing Zero Custom: S++/C/S Writeup [Rated by Black Lion]
Zaku-II: A++/F/S-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Zeong: B/B/B-- Writeup [Rated by LordKarasuman]
Edited by LordKarasuman, Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:02 pm.
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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WZC: S++/C/S

Wing Zero Custom can dominate any field in two moves, and its long reaching and all encompassing attacks will hit every part of a MA at once, but against a single strong opponent its long startup animations and fancy movements leave it far too vulnerable to get interrupted. You'll have to try and keep your distance, but without grunts to tangle up an Ace you're gonna have a bad time.
Edited by Wild Lion, Fri Jan 3, 2014 6:54 am.
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LordKarasuman
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Black Lion, you alright with my adding your rating and linking up your post to the list as a writeup?
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Wild Lion
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Go right ahead, I'll be adding more suits as I play them
Arios Gundam: B/A/S

Arios is a basic sort of Mobile Suit with nothing fancy or gimmicky in its arsenal, save for one ace in the hole: Its CSP. This insane all-out waverider attack focuses on a large concentrated area around it and can take down most MAs and Aces without a problem all by itself, especially effective on MAs since it hits every part multiple times stacking the damage. Groups of Aces will give it trouble, as it has limited crowd control ability and two of its charge attacks (C3 and C6) are simple forward thrusts, and its only wide-hitting attack (C4) takes too long to start up and doesn't pack much power when it does. The dash string makes up for this against groups however, and can keep an Ace juggled in the air for a respectable chunk of its life. Arios is a well-rounded workhorse that does nothing special, but fails at nothing in particular either.
Edited by Wild Lion, Fri Jan 3, 2014 7:14 am.
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LordKarasuman
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Psyco Gundam

Required Skills? Knockdown, Snipe, Concentration
Recommended Skills? Resonance, Beginner's Faux Pas, Airmaster, Hard Strike, DG Cells, Psychic

Videos
1v1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpmL6CfeZuA
1v3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0LKWbokCec
MAs/General: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-qxd168QpU

Group BnBs
MA Mode Shot (x1-5 depending on amount of Thurster)
SP

Ace BnBs
[Risky in 1v3] MA Mode Shot
Repeat (SSS -> Dash Cancel)
SP w/Knockdown -> Repeat (SSS-> Dash Cancel)

MA BnBs
Repeat (C1 -> Dash Cancel), use SP or Dash Cancel away during dangerous attacks
SP

Overview
Thruster is extremely important on the Psyco Gundam. At base Thruster, you will only be able to use MA Mode Shot twice and you have a high chance of Overheating if you're not paying attention. But at max Thruster, you can fire off MA Mode Shot as many as five times without leaving MA Mode.

Abuse the I-Field Barrier you gain during Burst whenever necessary. It prevents you from getting shot in the butt, allowing you to attack Aces with impunity for the length of your Burst gauge's duration.

You usually don't want to finish your S-String combo because, despite the fact that the uppercut finisher looks cool, it's often difficult to re-combo the string again. Because of the relatively stationary nature of Psyco's S-String, expect to take a lot of damage, but be able to eke just enough that the scales still weigh in your favor. SSS recombo cancels can also be favorably used to do corner locks of as many as three Aces reliably, but do note they can still escape from the corner.

MA Mode Shot is probably your main SP bar builder, and can even kill groups of enemies outright. However, while it has forward movement to prevent attacks by grunts, it will leave you incredibly open against Aces, so be wary of that.

C1 and SP will do okay damage to all parts of an MA, usually, and it's usually very easy to escape from dangerous attacks you know are coming. However, it pales in comparison to attacks other suits and even other MAs are capable of.

Where Destroy is kind of amazingly overpowered in ways that betray a blatant SEED slant in this installment, Psyco seems to have been left behind in its own debut. The only reason it earns high ratings down below is because of the difficult nature of 8-Star missions in SGM to begin with; it's a miracle that Psyco can even complete some of the missions in the listed criteria solo. Yes, it can complete the final mission of the True Gundam Warrior Operation on its own. Yes, it can (just barely) win the 1v3s in Master Asia's Operation solo.

But it incurs so much damage in the process that there's a huge gulf between it and its SEED analogue, and frankly, if it had less health, those missions would probably be impossible.

Rank
S-/S--/B-
Edited by LordKarasuman, Sun Jan 5, 2014 5:45 am.
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LordKarasuman
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Changelog (As of 1/18/2014 onward)

2/19/2014: Updates: Gyan (NEW).
2/15/2014: Updates: Sinanju (NEW), Master (NEW), Geara Zulu (NEW), Angelo's Geara Zulu (NEW), Chaos (NEW), Big Zam, Baund Doc, God, Susanowo
2/10/2014: Added the Providence's writeup, and added the Providence to the Tier List.
2/3/2014: Added the Kshatriya and Unicorn's writeup, and added the Kshatriya and Unicorn to the Tier List.
1/28/2014: Added the Delta Plus and the Banshee's writeup, and added the Delta Plus and the Banshee to the Tier List.
1/26/2014: Added the Raider and Rezin's Geara Doga's writeup, and added the Raider and Rezin's Geara Doga to the Tier List.
1/25/2014: Added the Gaia and the Zaku-II's writeup, and added the Gaia, the Zaku-II, the Seravee (Heat's analysis), the Heavyarms Kai (Heat's analysis), and the Qubeley (Haman's version, Heat's analysis) to the Tier List.
1/24/2014: Added the Bolinoak Sammahn's writeup, and added the Bolinoak Sammahn, the Bawoo, and the Bawoo (Axis Forces) to the Tier List.
1/22/2014: Added Nu Gundam's writeup, and added Nu Gundam to the Tier List.
1/21/2014: Added JR's Gelgoog's writeup, and added JR's Gelgoog to the Tier List.
1/19/2014: Added the Deathscythe Hell's writeup, and added the Deathscythe Hell to the Tier List.
1/19/2014: Added the God Gundam's writeup, and added the God Gundam to the Tier List.
1/18/2014 (2): Added the Calamity's writeup, and added the Calamity and Bawoo (Glemmy's Forces) to the Tier List.
1/18/2014: Wow, the board ate my changelog post.
Edited by LordKarasuman, Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:56 am.
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onyx007
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Destroy Gundam is probably the only true god tier unit in the game. Clears fields with only one SP and has little to no problems taking on multiple aces at once.

Otherwise, God Gundam gets my vote for being one of the most broken non-Mobile Armor unit the game. A fully charged SP can sometimes one shot Mobile Armors on 8* stages :XD
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LordKarasuman
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onyx007
Sun Jan 5, 2014 9:27 am
Destroy Gundam is probably the only true god tier unit in the game. Clears fields with only one SP and has little to no problems taking on multiple aces at once.
I disagree with this if only because Destroy has nowhere near of an easy time with MAs as the Baund Doc does, and anti-MA performance IS being graded here.

I'll try out God Gundam sometime in the near future, though. Also saw a Japanese player outputting some insane damage as Shinn in the 00 Raiser, so I'll probably be giving that a look as well.
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Master Omega
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Maybe not one-shot, but looking at its performance without Magnetic High was enough to consider it broken in this game. The thing is damn near untouchable, and can juggle aces for so long they forget what the ground feels like.

Everything would likely be in the S ranks, with Aces being double +. But, I'll let you decide that, LK

Nu Gundam, on the other hand, is flat out monstrous. I've seen enough of its gameplay on an 8 star stage to say that is is a VERY safe MS. It rapes crowds, aces and MAs with no effort. Its GSP wipes out crowds, drags aces along for massive damage and hits multiple points on a MA to make dispatching them easy. It ends with the Fin Funnel Barrier, which can OHKO grunts even on 8 star, and deals massive damage to Aces and MAs. Plus, the barrier cancels all C1 attacks from enemies until the player uses funnels again. The Nu's moveset combos well into its ASP, which can be a great juggling tool against enemy aces, while its improved former GSP (now it's the CSP of course) deals solid damage to crowds and MAs that wander into it, and Aces are no longer pushed away, so they can't escape once inside.

Special props go to its C4 and Charge Cancel combo, which is an all-purpose ass wrecker.
Edited by Master Omega, Sun Jan 5, 2014 9:45 am.
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LordKarasuman
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Nu Gundam's back on top? That's good to hear, it was a truly amazing unit back in 2. I needed some good news after having played with the Zeong for a good part of the day and getting back pretty much zero good results.
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Master Omega
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Yeah, Nu is back with a vengeance, while Master and God retain their spots in the God Tier.
Edited by Master Omega, Sun Jan 5, 2014 10:01 am.
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LordKarasuman
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I'll try to give them a try.

... But farming gold materials is murder.
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Master Omega
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Yeah, I heard that was a pain in the ass. That is gonna suck.
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Nigoli
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LordKarasuman
Sun Jan 5, 2014 10:11 am
... But farming gold materials is murder.
You can hit up some of those Cards in the Card Collection for them.

Some of the ones I didn't have for % of Collection gave some I believe when I did them.
Edited by Nigoli, Sun Jan 5, 2014 10:19 am.
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