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The Shin Gundam Musou Tiering Project
Topic Started: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:07 am (16,062 Views)
onyx007
Soldier
[ * ]
LordKarasuman
Sun Jan 5, 2014 9:43 am
onyx007
Sun Jan 5, 2014 9:27 am
Destroy Gundam is probably the only true god tier unit in the game. Clears fields with only one SP and has little to no problems taking on multiple aces at once.
I disagree with this if only because Destroy has nowhere near of an easy time with MAs as the Baund Doc does, and anti-MA performance IS being graded here.

I'll try out God Gundam sometime in the near future, though. Also saw a Japanese player outputting some insane damage as Shinn in the 00 Raiser, so I'll probably be giving that a look as well.
Taking out a MA armor is no where near as challenging as face tanking multiple aces on 8*. I don't think there is a single MS can that do that without having to resort to hit and run shots and SP spamming. And besides, your encounters with MAs are no where near as frequent as aces and even though Destroy does take a while to bring down another MA, it can do it at its own leisure without the fear of being one shotted and juggled to death.

I understand you have a criteria for grading MA performance but when you have a unit like Destroy Gundam that can pretty much face tank anything (assuming the unit is well upgraded) and MAs being a rather "low threat" to most units late game, does it really have such a huge factor in denying it from being an uber tier unit?
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
onyx007
Sun Jan 5, 2014 3:21 pm
Taking out a MA armor is no where near as challenging as face tanking multiple aces on 8*. I don't think there is a single MS can that do that without having to resort to hit and run shots and SP spamming. And besides, your encounters with MAs are no where near as frequent as aces and even though Destroy does take a while to bring down another MA, it can do it at its own leisure without the fear of being one shotted and juggled to death.

I understand you have a criteria for grading MA performance but when you have a unit like Destroy Gundam that can pretty much face tank anything (assuming the unit is well upgraded) and MAs being a rather "low threat" to most units late game, does it really have such a huge factor in denying it from being an uber tier unit?
Again, I disagree.

Considering the number of Suits I've been using that haven't been able to do much damage to MAs, and considering how instantaneous a lot of Destroy's attacks alone are, I don't really consider MAs to be a 'low threat' in this game like they used to be in the past. In fact, they've all gotten a lot more annoying because they seem to have a general health buff even before factoring 8-Star, along with the fact that they seem to repel projectile attacks even harder than anything else in this game as well.

As for frequency of MA appearances, in a game where there are plenty more missions with an MA emphasis, and where global 8-Star difficulty can equalize them relatively close to each other, general frequency is a lot more easily dismissed when you can go looking for specific kinds of trouble and expect to find the same challenge you do everywhere else. In fact, had I been doing a more thorough analysis, I'd be doing specific ratings based on stuff like whether or not Suits could complete an 8-Star Archangel escort gauntlet, which would just make the current rating system I've got going on even more of a cluster****.
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Noah
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Roll over & Die!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
banshee is scary good
i played it once and i fell in love with it
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Naz
Soldier
[ * ]
I suit I'm rocking right now are D-Hell and Sunanowo... gotta love those SPs...
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Zeong

Required Skills? Hard Strike, Knockdown
Recommended Skills? Beginner's Faux Pas, Concentration, Airmaster, High Tension

Videos
Coming soon.

Group BnBs
ASP
C2/C3 -> Repeat (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge -> CSC)

Ace BnBs
ASP w/Knockdown -> C2 -> (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge) x2 or x3
CSC until Powered Down -> C2 -> (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge) x2 or x3

MA BnBs
CSC (To build meter)
ASP

Overview
So it appears that the Zeong is not a Shot unit.

The suit is literally the definition of a bait-and-switch. All of your beam attacks, save for CSC (which is only useful because this game more-or-less made the move mandatory) are completely useless. COMPLETELY USELESS. The only one you would ever use that isn't an intermediary into another move is the GSP, and only as a panic button.

Instead, you MUST use a Pilot with Hard Strike, and you MUST rely on the ASP (PSYCHO CRUSHAAAAA). A lot. Because its damage is incredibly good and will mow through enemy crowds extremely well.

It still isn't quite the God Tier unit it used to be (is any, these days?), but when you go into it with the realization that you have to treat it like a melee suit, it will function perfectly well.

Rank
B/B/B--
Edited by LordKarasuman, Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:42 am.
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Byalant

Required Skills? None
Recommended Skills? Knockdown, Hard Strike, Concentration, Guts, Beginner's Faux Pas, Magnetic High, DG Cells, Psychic, High Tension

Videos
Coming soon.

Group BnBs
C2/C3/C4 -> Repeat (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge -> CSC)
GSP
ASP

Ace BnBs
C3 -> CSC until Powered down -> C2/C3/C4 -> Repeat (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge -> CSC)
CSC until Powered Down -> C2/C3/C4 -> Repeat (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge -> CSC)
ASP

MA BnBs
C4
GSP

Overview
I may have been somewhat harsh with my first evaluation of the Byalant.

It's not... GOOD, per se. But rather, because of the good range of its C3 and the fact that it can be combo'd relatively safely into CSC from a mid-range, it can actually take enemy Aces into Powered Down status pretty fast.

ASP does a pretty a good chunk of damage; use it as often as you can.

GSP is no longer the greatest, as it can only do one hit per rotation. Although to begin with, it was somewhat diffcult to get more than two hits on an enemy anywhere other than the corner, anyway.

Rank
C--/C+/C--
Edited by LordKarasuman, Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:05 am.
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Buster

Required Skills? None
Recommended Skills? Snipe, Concentration, Knockdown, Damage Skills in General

Videos
Coming soon.

Group BnBs
S-String
C3/C4 -> Repeat (Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge -> CSC)
ASP

Ace BnBs
S-String
GSP/ASP
ASP w/ Knockdown -> Dash Cancel -> Dash Charge -> CSC -> Dash Away

MA BnBs
S-String -> CSC (To build meter)
ASP

Overview
Ever wanted to make the enemy face the same BS you do? Use the Buster Gundam.

You can zone almost any enemy in the game with this thing. S-String has enough range to match enemy C1s at every range that matters, and causes Powered Down status pretty damned fast. In 1v3 situations, you can even herd foes around, line them up, and shoot them with little chance for a real reprisal.

ASP also does very good damage against MAs.

About the only issue you have is that your S-String is completely stationary. You might be the only unit in the game that has issues with taking damage from grunts, as a result; fortunately, they don't do too much in this installment.

Rank
S-/S/A++
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chase the girls
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
can someone do a review on strike freedom and destiny gundam plz
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ManGan
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Kamen Rider
[ *  * ]
I am interested in what triggers specific variations in Hambrabi's Charge C1. It seems like it's just randomized (it would be a shame). That one variation where his partners spin forward and beamspam is just amazing I want to keep doing it.
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Zeik Liberated
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ChaosKasier
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
wow very surprised at the Buster's ranking, I keep hearing the Calamity is just a poor man's buster so how does that compare been the same kind of ranged suit?
Edited by Zeik Liberated, Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:14 pm.
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Minor update, gave the Zeong a new rating after coming to the realization that it is NOT a Shot-based suit anymore. At all.

@chase the girls; I'll try to get a good look at the SF some time this week. It's definitely changed a lot.

@ManGan; I have no idea how to get that variation to show up consistently either. Will work on the Hambrabi some more, though.

@Zeik Liberated; Calamity was pretty high up on my to-do list, I'll move it up since I'm curious about it myself.
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chase the girls
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
Ty
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Strike Freedom

Required Skills? Snipe
Recommended Skills? Concentration, Knockdown, Beginner's Faux Pas, DG Cells, Psychic

Videos
None at the moment.

Group BnBs
CSC
Repeat (DCh -> CSC)
GSP2/Burst SP

Ace BnBs
CSC until Powered Down
GSP2/Burst SP [At closer range, potentially higher damage but Riskier]
[Risky] GSP2/Burst SP w/Knockdown -> C5/C6 -> Dash Away

MA BnBs
GSP2/Burst SP

Overview
Definitely feels like a full-on beam spam unit this time around. You will be relying almost exclusively on the Meteor SP attacks to get anywhere against Aces, which means you will be blowing through SP bars (spending two each time) and Burst very quickly. Fortunately, you don't need a specific pilot to trigger GSP2 on Burst since Meteor is part of SF's Burst Mode, but you DO need a Pilot that has Snipe or your damage will be relatively bad.

Do not actually use the Burst Mode for anything regarding Aces, ever. All you will end up doing is giving yourself a bigger hitbox while leaving yourself wide open, basically putting a sign on your back that says "Please kill me." Trigger Burst Mode, and go straight to the SP. Fun and games through obnoxious twirling using an oversized MA mode is better done in 7-Star and below.

The damage on the Meteor SP goes down the farther away you are from an opponent, because a very significant portion of it comes from the missile spam that you do, and not just the lasers. However, being close to an ace is exactly where you do NOT want to be. In fact, trying to get into position to use Meteor SP at optimum range is a battle in-and-of itself.

Watching an enemy block a Meteor SP is extremely painful, but is mitigated somewhat by Knockdown and the presence of flying grunts knocking into a blocking ace and triggering the skill anyway.

Rank
B+/B++/B
Edited by LordKarasuman, Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:33 am.
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Zeik Liberated
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ChaosKasier
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Got the game now, not that far in but man... Destroy.. Destroys, as long as you don't see a MA you feel completely safe vs everything...

On the SF can you make use of Outrange tactics to maybe offset the Meteor Full bursts loss of damage?
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The only thing Destroy is missing is the ability to obliterate MAs instead of just reliably chipping them down. If it had that, it would be the best machine in the game bar none. At the moment, I consider the Susanowo and the Baund Doc to be superior machines.

As for Outrange Tactics, I remember it not doing as much as I'd like. I think it might have potential in a 1v1 capacity since the missiles will have no one to target but one person, though damage probably will get divvied up badly in 1v3.

I'll probably have a review of the Hambrabi up tonight, and will try to get to Calamity in the weekend. Yazan's mech has a huge flaw to it and I'm not finding a solution.
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chase the girls
Elite Soldier
[ *  * ]
LordKarasuman
Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:41 pm
The only thing Destroy is missing is the ability to obliterate MAs instead of just reliably chipping them down. If it had that, it would be the best machine in the game bar none. At the moment, I consider the Susanowo and the Baund Doc to be superior machines.

As for Outrange Tactics, I remember it not doing as much as I'd like. I think it might have potential in a 1v1 capacity since the missiles will have no one to target but one person, though damage probably will get divvied up badly in 1v3.

I'll probably have a review of the Hambrabi up tonight, and will try to get to Calamity in the weekend. Yazan's mech has a huge flaw to it and I'm not finding a solution.
why susanowo
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Hambrabi

Required Skills? Snipe
Recommended Skills? Concentration, Beginner's Faux Pas, DG Cells, Psychic

Videos
1v1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APqATjYzL0

Group BnBs
GSP1 -> CSC
Strafing C6~6

Ace BnBs
[Risky] CSC (Must be used at close range) -> Dash Cancel -> Dash Away
Bait Melee/SP -> CSC (Must be used at close range) -> Dash Cancel -> Dash Away
On Powered Down, C6~6
GSP1 -> C6~6

MA BnBs
C6~6
GSP2

Overview
I think doing GSP1 followed by a CSC to sic Hambrabi wingmen on a group of enemies is just about THE most satisfying thing you can do in the entire game. I almost feel as if the sudden slowdown in framerate as everything in sight blows to pieces is a reward, in and of itself. It's just so much visceral, raw destruction.

The Hambrabi is the only suit in the game whose CSC can parrystun Aces. This makes you incredibly vulnerable to attacks, but it is also the only way to set Aces into Powered Down status as trying to get ranged attacks off the CSC in order to do it the standard way is unreliable since the Hambrabi wingmen attacks are completely randomized.

Do note that this sets you up perfectly for C6~6, so it works out.

You will probably get hit out of your attacks a lot before you can pull off C6~6 against MAs. Keep this in mind especially in situations where you have to fight two at a time.

Rank
S++/B--/B--
chase the girls
Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:29 am
why susanowo
GSP2 is so insane.

So, so insane.

About the only stage Susanowo cannot wipe the floor with consistently (using subpar pilot setups) is the second 1v3 stage in the Master Asia operation.
Edited by LordKarasuman, Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:20 pm.
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Master Omega
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Lord of The World
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
From what I can gather, this game, even more than 2 or 3, rewards suits for having OP spam tactics.
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Master Omega
Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:22 am
From what I can gather, this game, even more than 2 or 3, rewards suits for having OP spam tactics.
The funny thing is, while CSC was a good way of balancing every suit, I think the difficulty in causing hitstun just made way too much of each individual suits' movesets unusable. :kurokan:
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Master Omega
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Lord of The World
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Indeed, the 8-star's cheap adds make it terrible for really knowing which units are actually good, because it sets up bullsh*t limits and rules for what the player can do, while it spams hyper armor and power-ups on everything.
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I jumped the gun on the Hambrabi, much to my relief. Figured out how to play it in 1v1 situations, and included a video.
Calamity

Required Skills? Snipe
Recommended Skills? Beginner's Faux Pas, Concentration, Outrange Tactics, DG Cells, Psychic, Knockdown

Videos
None at the moment.

Group BnBs
CSC
Repeat (DCh -> CSC)
GSP

Ace BnBs
CSC until Powered Down
On Powered Down, (Dch -> DCa) x2 -> Dash Away
ASP

MA BnBs
GSP

Overview
Calamity being a mediocre version of the Buster simultaneously gives Calamity too much credit while offending anyone who likes Buster, because in most group and 1v1 situations, Calamity plays like a bad Class 3. No, seriously, its damage is so bad. Even with Snipe in there, you will probably not be impressed.

Like Buster, Calamity has a ranged S-String but its first two hits do not hitstun properly, so you can't zone out Aces like Buster can. ASP also does okay damage against Aces, but it triggers Knockdown too early so you are hard pressed to get any extra damage off of a Powered Down status.

The only place where it seems to do alright is in fighting MAs, where GSP will actually do respectable damage against individual MA parts.

Rank
B--/C--/B
Edited by LordKarasuman, Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:56 pm.
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ManGan
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Kamen Rider
[ *  * ]
great video on the hambrabi. I gotta ask you though, if the charge shot was fixed and it was fixed to the spinning beamspam of the henchmen what would be your overall rating of this unit?
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Easily S across the board as it is magnitudes better than a regular CSC. That move puts a dent in MAs, too.
Edited by LordKarasuman, Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:23 pm.
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Joshelplex
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The Nightmare of Winnipeg
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I don't understand why they'd make that one so random when nobody else really had a random element to the moveset.
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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Joshelplex
Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:21 am
I don't understand why they'd make that one so random when nobody else really had a random element to the moveset.
These are the same devs who have been making the Zeong a melee/melee-viable suit since DWG2. I'm starting to think they only implement stuff if it amuses them, rather than it being a totally well-thought out design choice.
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