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| Shin Gundam Musou [Dynasty Warriors: Gundam Reborn] | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Tue Sep 3, 2013 5:00 pm (22,206 Views) | |
| Master Omega | Tue Jan 7, 2014 8:54 pm Post #3276 |
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Lord of The World
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I'd like to see someone to edit that scene with a comical "OH NO!!!" in slow motion from Nicol. |
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| Cydge | Tue Jan 7, 2014 9:08 pm Post #3277 |
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Wanderer
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I don't plan to Watch Victory but I was sure Uso was overrated I've only watched the firsts épisodes of remastered but definitely want to see that now. |
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| Master Omega | Tue Jan 7, 2014 9:38 pm Post #3278 |
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Lord of The World
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Koei basically gives him high stats just because he's a 13 year old pilot. As if it's such a difference from 14 or 15, which most protagonists in Gundam are. |
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| LordKarasuman | Tue Jan 7, 2014 10:15 pm Post #3279 |
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Yes my Sweetest
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Uso not only gets ridiculous in his series, but he's pretty much the final pilot of the final chronological animated segment of all of Universal Century. Of course his stats are gonna be obscene. If there's anyone on the stat list who bugs me, it's Kira having 200 Shot (yes, I know this discussion has been done to death but I'm just throwing that out there rather than asking for a full-blown debate) and Tieria being high at all. |
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| tyrox9 | Tue Jan 7, 2014 10:34 pm Post #3280 |
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SUPER!~ General
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Nicol aint that bad. He just... different. in the Gundam SEED RE: mangas (a somewhat recent revised telling of gundam seed to follow the show more closely) more light on Nicol showed him to just be tactically cautious, rather than a balls-deep pilot like the rest. but even still, he alone took down Artemis Base's 'impenetrable defenses' and managed to single handily trump the Archangel, and would of destroyed it too, if it wasn't for kira's SEED mode stopping him. To compare him to Duo, for obvious reasons, he prolly ain't the better fighter when piloting. but he definitely used the stealth magnitudes better with a lot less screen time. |
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| Master Omega | Tue Jan 7, 2014 10:37 pm Post #3281 |
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I agree that Kira with 200 is laughable, especially when other, far better shot oriented pilots are relegated only to 199 (Kamille, Haman, Lockon). And yeah, Tieria is easily one of the most bullsh*t in terms of his stat placement. That is flat out offensive. At least with Kira's disproportionate stats I still find it in the goodness of my heart to give him pretty high overall ratings, but this certainly isn't the case with Tieria, who practically does nothing throughout 00 as a pilot. Everyone else has something to do, or an ace to fight. Not Tieria. Too busy confusing boners everywhere for stuff like that. However, when it comes to Uso, I find him easily one of the most lacking protagonists, who is pretty much dragged along by his allies, a group of people who systematically get offed in the most mundane, yet hilarious ways. Katejina herself is easily one of the most disappointing final bosses in Gundam, having achieved her "ace" status by basically killing stupid people. Edited by Master Omega, Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:17 pm.
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| tyrox9 | Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:19 pm Post #3282 |
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SUPER!~ General
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I guess pegging dozens of different targets, at the same time, with pinpoint accuracy that intentionally disables not kills, as well as small targets like nuclear missiles and funnel-esque weapons, from long range just doesn't cut it as being a damn great shot anymore, huh? not the first game to give Tieria related stuff bad statistics. ever play SDGO? Edited by tyrox9, Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:21 pm.
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| Master Omega | Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:26 pm Post #3283 |
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You mean with that multi-lock auto targeting computer? How about the fact that even without the natural systems of the Freedom or the SF, Kira has one of the easiest to predict firing patterns of any protagonist? Shinn flat out no-selled Kira in the Freedom Vs Impulse fight with just the knowledge that he only attacks limbs, forcing him to close in and fight Shinn at close range where Shinn clearly had the advantage. I will repeat what I previously said. I think Kira's shot is not perfect compared to others. If anything, Lockon does deserve maxed shot, since it's all either Neil or Lyle used in 00. However, I am still lenient on Kira for a consistent performance. Though you likely missed that since I edited it in. Edit: I have, and I noticed unfortunately I get regular updates on that front from Wesker. SDGO never ceases to amaze me with how bad it can be, and you probably know from playing it.Either way, not much we can do about it. Guess it's just something we have to leave alone. I'm unnaturally antagonistic today because of a bunch of energy drinks. Edited by Master Omega, Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:32 pm.
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| Zeik Liberated | Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:36 pm Post #3284 |
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ChaosKasier
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Sorry but Uso has some of the best piloting showings in all of Gundam and comes up with many unique strategies on the fly + he uses a MS that isn't massively different to a MP unit up until the V2 so he gets by all of the normal early battles most mains fumble though on plot armour by actually been skillful. Uso is way more skillful than most of the Gundam mains. He's certainly way better than people like Kamille who has to be saved in pretty much every battle he takes part in. |
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| tyrox9 | Tue Jan 7, 2014 11:42 pm Post #3285 |
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SUPER!~ General
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Multi-Lock On does not Auto-lock. It isnt called Auto Multi-Lock On System. yeah. I'll admit, if you are a top tier pilot, with every desire to want to win this fight, who studies their opponent day and night for a while, and have a clever bastard develop a strategy for you, AND the opponent wasn't fully in the fight, I can see that... but then there's every other instance. Lockon prolly doesn't have max shot because, and i think this is the case, the 2nd, notably lamer, Lockon was a bit more closer rangey, comapred to the pure sniper 1st, cool Lockon, who was a sniper by heart and soul. if it was the first Lockon, he prolly have max shot. yeah. a shame, cause as much as I... have many many fiery problems with 00, I actually kinda liked Tieria, when stupid VEDA stuff wasn't happening. And when i wont call any gundam meister, or any main character in 00 in general a 'good pilot', since they basically just overpower their way through everything, in a video game, where stats need to be somewhat fair to a certain level, its a shame to see Tieria get the bad end of the poop stick so often. |
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| Zeik Liberated | Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:08 am Post #3286 |
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ChaosKasier
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It had more to do with the Impulse been the perfect machine to fight Kira with, put Shinn in the Savouir and he lasts less time than Athrun did vs Kira and is sent back to his ship without a head or an arm within a few minutes of the fight.... |
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| Master Omega | Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:26 am Post #3287 |
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For someone as "strategic" as Uso, he pretty much ends up backed into a corner. . .A LOT. Most of his later battles became just using the WoL to win, whereas Katejina's battle was Uso constantly falling for Katejina's tricks even after seeing her flat out kill most of his friends. However, if there were a pilot I'd compare his skillset to, it'd be Garrod, as the two often take a more defensive stance on combat, with good performance as a team, which I do give Uso credit for. Garrod just does better as a single pilot though, though I'd say their ace ratio is about the same (how many aces they fought). And as usual you leave out everything that happens in the later episodes of Zeta, wherein Kamille pretty much becomes the one to save others, or flat out beats down the major antagonists. Jerid, Yazan, Haman, Scirocco all either die or are forced to retreat due to Kamille's prowess in combat. He needs to be saved early in Zeta due to an obvious lack of experience, but over time becomes a strong and reliable fighter in his own right. Though Shinn isn't the brightest bulb, which is why he had to study for a while to even get it. Other pilots like Amuro, Char, Domon, etc who are far more observant would have spotted that pattern immediately. After all, Amuro read the pattern of Lalah's bits, same with Kamille and Haman's funnels. Domon read Sai Saici's pattern during their first confrontation, and even when he was wrong, he immediately adjusted to combat his opponent. Also, Kira was prepared to fight fully, going into SEED mode and actually aiming at the Impulse's cockpit with a beam saber swing (you can thank recycled footage from SEED). If he wasn't prepared to fight for his life, he was by that point. Plus, it's no excuse that Kira "wasn't ready," we saw him waste Athrun a few episodes ago without breaking a sweat, even after years of inactivity. Really we could just chalk it up to inconsistency and no longer argue anything in Destiny since Morosawa was likely suffering from her illness well before episode 34. I actually view the Lockons as two who share the 200 shot stat, but their other stats are different. Neil is more defensive, Lyle is more offensive, with maybe a better reflex rating due to his Multi-Range style of fighting. I haven't watched 00 through more than twice, so I will likely put it at the top of my rewatch list along with a few others. As for the 00 pilots in general, I would still call them good pilots, just not great. Setsuna is easily the best of them, but he suffers from his own problems, primarily a distinct lack of defense in preference for charging in, guns blazing, as well as a reliance on vastly superior tech to his opponents. Graham is the same but without the need for a tech advantage. It's actually when he gets better MS that he starts sucking (because LOGIC )But, Tieria is his own brand of weird. The fact he really doesn't have a steady opponent to fight, nor does he get any great enemies that he defeats in a way that doesn't scream "cop out." Especially when he uses the surprise of the Nadleeh or the Seraphim to kill enemies. But really, Tieria isn't meant to be a frontline fighter anyway, his MS are support tanks that can resist a lot of damage while supporting their allies at a distance, with the exception of Raphael Gundam, which is better suited to frontline fighting, but gets offed quickly in the film. Edit: You know what's funny about this? SGM news has stopped, and the game has soured so many people that it's preferable to debate the shows than to actually talk about the game. Edited by Master Omega, Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:45 am.
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| Atoric | Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:36 am Post #3288 |
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Soldier
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Lockon doesn't have 200 shot sadly for one reason really that I can think of. At the beginning of season 2 he keeps saying he can't match his brother and hates being compared. That's the only justification for it, which by the end of the season and into the movie doesn't hold up anymore.
Edited by Atoric, Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:37 am.
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| Master Omega | Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:38 am Post #3289 |
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Yeah, by the end of Season 2, it's easy to believe that both would be maxed. Though at the same time, Lyle could be just respecting his brother by putting himself down. |
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| tyrox9 | Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:41 am Post #3290 |
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SUPER!~ General
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@Zeik; yeah, lets not forget that Impulse as a very high spec machine itself. Look, I know it's really, REALLY easy to get hung up, and base an entire assumption of someone or something on their most dire moment, ESPECIALLY if you don't like the character or unit. but if we did that, then; *the RX-79 would have a defense of like 10, because shields back then were made of cardboard. * Heero would have a shot of 0 cause he unloaded ALL of the Heavyarms ammo on a single enemy, and missed every single shot. * Loran's offense would have an average of 5 because he was as gentle as a kitty cat, figuring out how gundam fingers work. *and most of the 00 cast would have stats of 0 all across the board, and their unit's stats be at maximum, because that's just kind of how the show worked. but when you do this, you completely ignore so much more. Like including, but not limited to, kira; shooting down the BuCues in the desert while in Strike, shooting down Rau's Dragoon net traps, hitting a submerged Abyss with railguns while in the sky, rail guns piercing through a building and taking down Gazuoots. not to mention you're forgetting a bit of a trump for Kira. theres two sides of him, theres; nice guy martial pacifist kira who keeps a kill count down, restricting himself... then theres 'No choice, You will die die' kira who passes judgement that either you personally or your machine is so horrible/powerful that life isn't even up for debate anymore. aka; Rau, Destroy Gundam, and Durrandal (before Rey ultimate Kill Stealed) "If i were to take this seriously, you wouldn't stand a chance" - Kira Yamato to be fair, we are technically debating over statistics in the game. |
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| Zeik Liberated | Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:16 am Post #3291 |
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ChaosKasier
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No he doesn't... And the WoL are his suits main weapon other than his rifle and saber, thats like saying Amuro is bad because he uses his Funnels so much. Even with the WoL Uso finds tactical ways to make use of them such as using it to disable MS, as Shields and using them to blind Katajina so he doesn't have to kill her. He was falling for her tricks because he had feelings for her and was still a 13 year old kid.
Em no Kamille is only ever on top against people like that after getting helped out or by been powered up with Newtype Rage. heck against Haman he was dead until Katz jumped in when Haman got angry at him and even when he tries to attack again Fa has to take a hit for him and he openly gets a opening thanks to a new weapon thats just been added to the Zeta. Yazan and Jerid both had him dead multiple times though out the show before getting cheesed by Newtype rage at the end. As for against Sirocco he makes no head way vs a fleeing foe, loses his rifle/saber, gets flat out told by his space ghosts that he's no match for Sirocco and has to use Newtype space ghost hacks to stop the O from moving to win. He's just terrible as far as main characters are concerned |
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| Master Omega | Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:21 am Post #3292 |
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It's not an assumption on one moment though. Every moment in a pilot's career leaves a big impact, and that fight says a lot about Kira and Shinn. But this is debating a single stat as well: his shot rating. This fight shows the ultimate weakness of his ranged style, and a bit about his performance defensively (but that is a much longer analysis). As for the stat assumptions, that is extreme hyperbole, not an argument. But again, I said that he does have good performance. Never said he was terrible. I pointed out a major weakness in his shooting style, and a moment where it completely failed him, which has as much to do with Kira himself as it does with his opponent, who played to that weakness. As a result, I calculated a different score based on the evidence. But I'll give my take on it. A fast unit, yes, but the BcUEs are massive targets. The DRAGOON net has to remain stationary, so it's easier to hit them. Plus, the larger DRAGOONs the Providence carries are also gigantic targets that don't move particularly fast. The bigger question for the last two is how Kira could even see them, even with improved sight. Though that is likely a question saved for video analysis; I'll come back to this one. That really hasn't argued anything I've said, but I will try my best to make a case. So what if Kira has a serious and a not so serious mode? Does this make him better? Does it mean he deserves better stats? Better yet, is Kira the only one to switch between a serious and angry mode? In fact, he's not. A lot of pilots have that. Kamille did it towards the end of Zeta, having lost Four. He became more focused and stable, taking out Jerid and Yazan casually while flat out stomping Scirocco and nearly killing Haman in battle when he got angry. Domon becomes strong regardless of whether he is calm or angry. Plus, he is actually more dangerous when he's calm (hence the Serene Mind skill in-game). Char and Full Frontal are notorious for keeping a cool head, and both of them mop the floor with most of the people they fight. Loran actually tries to pacify opponents often. But, when that fails, he goes on the attack and tries to neutralize whatever threat he comes across. The difference between Loran and Kira, however, is that Loran has no difficult people to fight outside of Harry Ord or Gym (and even then Gym isn't that great of a pilot), whereas Kira is given a bunch of named people to fight. Guess it's time I just got to the point of that last paragraph. Really, we're left just looking at the evidence as it comes. Kira deserves no more credit than any other pilot for having a rage mode. EVERY pilot has a moment where they snap and try their hardest, and others are the inverse, the more calm they are the better. Really, if that's all it took, everyone would be maxed out, right? Only partially, at this point it's almost more about the shows than the stats. But yeah, we might want to stop before we all get out of hand. I'm willing if everyone else involved is. |
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| tyrox9 | Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:29 am Post #3293 |
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yeah we can wrap this up, and maybe continue further in PM, if you want. but on one specific point i'd like to touch on first, actually Kira's serious/not serious is a huge factor. If the argument against Kira in his biggest defeat is the predictability of his shots/attacks in general when he is trying to save lives (AKA Not-Serious mode), than this weakness is completely derailed once Kira determines that he has to go full out to beat an opponent (Serious mode). because once he stops aiming to disable, than that entire predictable element is just gone *poof* because now he is aiming to kill, try to fight against a pattern, and you're dead. edit; and in relation to the game, since you dont actually spare any lives in it, Kira is going all out. hence, awesome stats. Edited by tyrox9, Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:36 am.
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| Zeik Liberated | Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:37 am Post #3294 |
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There was plenty of talk on the game... till the Pilot stat/skill list came out and that put some fire under some peoples belly's over topics that naturally over lap with the shows. Kinda expect it to go on for a little longer since that area is very open to interpretation for individuals. We all have our own thoughts on who the best is and who aren't good and no one is truly right because the closest thing to right are these games and no one agrees with game stats 100% :p (not even g gen's stats) |
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| Master Omega | Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:39 am Post #3295 |
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Yeah, I plan on paying my Zeta DVDs a quick little visit since I can't find original Zeta footage to post on my end. All of it is New Translation, which is in canon limbo for the most part. Though really, the skills are the most irritating part, because you'd at least expect them to get that correct. But surprisingly it's the most wrong thing about the game. But yeah, this is an argument I've been in countless times and they are just taxing on my sanity and patience. It never turns out good for anyone involved, no matter who is right or wrong either. Primarily because it's offense and defense rather than two sides that are trying to reach a conclusion through discussion. Edited by Master Omega, Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:40 am.
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| Alpha Maeda | Wed Jan 8, 2014 4:21 am Post #3296 |
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Should be a stat for pilots that like to commit suicide, then Athrun and Heero would have top honors.......really? they really gave Aegis the self destruct? I sorta can't wait for this game to be brought over just so i can use THAT ^.^' |
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| gundamfan4000 | Wed Jan 8, 2014 5:03 am Post #3297 |
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Officer
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does anyone know that if there is an unlockable thing that allows the use of permanent nt-d mode for the unicorn suits, perfect strike and ect |
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| Horus_Unity | Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:59 am Post #3298 |
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I wasn't all that impressed with the Aegis... Right up until I got Athrun to Lv30 and first used the self destruct. I toppled 2 MAs at once. Probably one of the most damaging single hit attacks in the entire game, and the area of effect is large enough to make real use of it. My view on the suit turned 180 degrees and I started to see it's good points more clearly. I think they manage to really get the good bits from both GM2 and GM3 for this game. It's just too bad that I can't read Japanese and most of what I have discovered has been through trial and error. I may be biased but I'm glad about all the Seed adds. And all the new ones have been quite enjoyable to use. I am saddened by the inclusion of Zeta's Movie ending by default (rather than having to earn it like in GM2) but that's only a small gripe. I have also found that the AI has been improved over the last game. Enemy aces actually dodge and harass you from a distance rather than trying to overpower you by sheer force. I can understand the places where people have issues, and some I agree with (lack of completeness in the Pilot List, certain unusable aces, suits not quite living up to standard) but there are some I disagree with. Overall, I think this game is definitely worthwhile. I got it on VITA and am waiting for a definitive answer on a English release before getting it on PS3. The VITA has almost zero slowdown whilst still having a huge number of enemy's on the screen. |
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| tyrox9 | Wed Jan 8, 2014 11:24 am Post #3299 |
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they are reforming ZZ out of the timeline |
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| wodash | Wed Jan 8, 2014 12:30 pm Post #3300 |
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undefeated in all directions
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just to chip in about Uso, he's basically the base for AGE's Kio, hence his overrated abilities, everyone knows who his dad supposed to be |
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I get regular updates on that front from Wesker. SDGO never ceases to amaze me with how bad it can be, and you probably know from playing it.
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5:56 PM Jul 13