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Shin Gundam Musou [Dynasty Warriors: Gundam Reborn]
Topic Started: Tue Sep 3, 2013 5:00 pm (22,321 Views)
SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
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I expect VA jokes for characters that share the same VA. Such as Rey and Duo.
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wodash
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undefeated in all directions
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tyrox9
Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:23 pm
Im pretty sure Aegis will be Class 1 in that its a main Gundam used by a main character, and a Char Clone at that
err, i don't follow SEED much, but isn't Mu/Rau/Rey the char clone of SEED? the only thing Athrun has for him is the pink MS paintjob, he doesn't have blonde hair, overconfidence, and most importantly, teh mask.

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LordKarasuman
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Yes my Sweetest
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Athrun briefly had sunglasses, as part of the second most blatantly transparent disguise ever made.

Spoiler: click to toggle


So he was KIND OF a Char Clone.

That said, if Aegis gets more than a Class 2 moveset, that'll be quite a nice surprise, but I don't see it happening. Honestly, I'd just be happy if Yzak and Dearka show up in their own respective units.
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tyrox9
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SUPER!~ General
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wodash
Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:49 am
tyrox9
Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:23 pm
Im pretty sure Aegis will be Class 1 in that its a main Gundam used by a main character, and a Char Clone at that
err, i don't follow SEED much, but isn't Mu/Rau/Rey the char clone of SEED? the only thing Athrun has for him is the pink MS paintjob, he doesn't have blonde hair, overconfidence, and most importantly, teh mask.

SEED and Destiny did an interesting take on their Char Clones. each series had 3. One representing a form of Char. SEED had Athrun (MSG), Mwu (Zeta) Rau (CCA).

Then Destiny had Neo (MSG), Athrun (Zeta), and Rey (CCA). or one could say Neo was more of CCA for his manipulation, and Rey was the MSG, for being Kira's rival... it was a lot looser in the formula

And if you think some physical appearences makes Athrun any less of a char, lemme break it down for ya;

Athrun Zala is an Ace Pilot, who pilots Red Mobile Suits, that is known to fight with Kicks (both a classic Char kick, and his own signature Athrun Roundhouse) , who was one protagonists Rival, and another's commanding mentor. He has had Family in high power politics, has gone by an Alternate Alias, has been known to switch sides, has worn Cool Shades. he has kicked a gundam's ass in a mook suit, a Zaku at that. And, perhaps most important of all; Is arguably better than the protagonist(s) in both skill and popularity with the fans.

Yeah. i think that warrants Athrun Zala as being a Char Clone.
Edited by tyrox9, Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:28 am.
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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tyrox9
Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:13 am
wodash
Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:49 am
tyrox9
Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:23 pm
Im pretty sure Aegis will be Class 1 in that its a main Gundam used by a main character, and a Char Clone at that
err, i don't follow SEED much, but isn't Mu/Rau/Rey the char clone of SEED? the only thing Athrun has for him is the pink MS paintjob, he doesn't have blonde hair, overconfidence, and most importantly, teh mask.

SEED and Destiny did an interesting take on their Char Clones. each series had 3. One representing a form of Char. SEED had Athrun (MSG), Mwu (Zeta) Rau (CCA).

Then Destiny had Neo (MSG), Athrun (Zeta), and Rey (CCA). or one could say Neo was more of CCA for his manipulation, and Rey was the MSG, for being Kira's rival... it was a lot looser in the formula

And if you think some physical appearences makes Athrun any less of a char, lemme break it down for ya;

Athrun Zala is an Ace Pilot, who pilots Red Mobile Suits, that is known to fight with Kicks (both a classic Char kick, and his own signature Athrun Roundhouse) , who was one protagonists Rival, and another's commanding mentor. He has had Family in high power politics, has gone by an Alternate Alias, has been known to switch sides, has worn Cool Shades. he has kicked a gundam's ass in a mook suit, a Zaku at that. And, perhaps most important of all; Is arguably better than the protagonist(s) in both skill and popularity with the fans.

Yeah. i think that warrants Athrun Zala as being a Char Clone.
That last one doesn't apply; Char was never better than Amuro as a pilot or a person.
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tyrox9
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lol. Says you.
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Wild Lion
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tyrox9
Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:01 am
lol. Says you.
It's stated right in the series. Lalah tells Char that Amuro is better than him, Char tells Amuro the same thing, and again in Zeta, and again in CCA. Char could not keep up with Amuro because he was a weaker Newtype and he spent too much time scheming and not enough time honing his skills.
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tyrox9
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Well, maybe the weird indian swan girl had some right points there. but Char did have greater skill than Amuro. Amruo just had incomparable powers. and even despite this the two were seemingly always pretty damn close to each other. char was definitely better in early OYW when Amuro relied on the OP of Gundam, and was still developing. And honestly, even though he said that to Amruo in Zeta, maybe just as an overall/premonition thing, during that specific time he was likely better because he been fighting the fight while Amuro was out of the fight until just recently, and was definitely not honed.

and none of that correlates with popularity, in which Char dominates all day every with likely the biggest fandom in all of gundam. Guy is a legacy character.
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Zeik Liberated
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Char is barely in the same league as Amuro, by the end of MSG Char has to have a much better MS (Zeong) to just be able to scrape a tie vs Amuro and even thats only because the cockpit wasn't where Amuro thought, by CCA we see Amuro able to hold off both Char and Gyunei using just a Re-GZ while the other two are in top class Newtype MS, by the time he has Nu Gundam he barely takes damage vs Char while Char's MS is reduced to it's cockpit ball.
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tyrox9
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SUPER!~ General
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point taken
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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
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Hey, Lunamaria actually gets call outs from Char for being a Red fanatic. Her custom Gunner ZAKU Warrior is more red than the Justice and Infinite Justice. Savior was pretty red though but we all know how fast Athrun ditched that. They didn't even bother to repair the poor thing!
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tyrox9
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SUPER!~ General
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Look at my Avatar. even if you were a master mechanic, would you wanna repair that unfortunate thing? Could prolly just build another one at the same cost xD. hell repairing it would prolly be about the same as building a new one.

And for the record, Char Zaku was, like... Pink being called Red. So was his Gelgoog. In gundam, if it's a color that is influenced strongly by red, like; Pink, magenta, purple, etc, then its red.

It's not about the color of the red, its about the red in the color.
Edited by tyrox9, Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:21 pm.
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Re4_Wesker
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Antagonist?
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Black Lion
Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:54 am
That last one doesn't apply; Char was never better than Amuro as a pilot or a person.
I'm assuming you are just leaving out the fact that Char actually was better than Amuro at the beginning of MSG. Amuro only survived that early because of the Gundam and thanks to a bit of luck. Amuro only got better than Char once he actually started becoming a experienced pilot.

Quote:
 
Char is barely in the same league as Amuro, by the end of MSG Char has to have a much better MS (Zeong) to just be able to scrape a tie vs Amuro and even thats only because the cockpit wasn't where Amuro thought, by CCA we see Amuro able to hold off both Char and Gyunei using just a Re-GZ while the other two are in top class Newtype MS, by the time he has Nu Gundam he barely takes damage vs Char while Char's MS is reduced to it's cockpit ball.


Kind of a gross exaggeration here. In CCA, It was clear that Char wasn't taking that fight seriously. Gyunei noted that Char didn't use his funnels while fighting Amuro in the RE-GZ. Furthermore, Gyunei did nothing but get knocked around excessively (he may as well have not been there). Char knew Amuro couldn't beat him in that battle and allowed Amuro to escape.

You aren't wrong though. Amuro does ultimately beat Char. The skill gap however isn't as great as you are implying.

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SazukeEX
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Behold Sun Shi! The Fiery Tiger Cub of Sun Ce, Lu Xun's Tigress, and the Mother Tiger of Lu Kang!
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Had Char not shared his technology with Amuro for the Nu Gundam development than Char's plans would have succeeded. His arrogance and wanting to fight Amuro mano-to-mano one last time was his undoing.
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DoUbLe Zz Mk2
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First Lieutenant
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tyrox9
Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:54 pm
Look at my Avatar. even if you were a master mechanic, would you wanna repair that unfortunate thing? Could prolly just build another one at the same cost xD. hell repairing it would prolly be about the same as building a new one.

And for the record, Char Zaku was, like... Pink being called Red. So was his Gelgoog. In gundam, if it's a color that is influenced strongly by red, like; Pink, magenta, purple, etc, then its red.

It's not about the color of the red, its about the red in the color.
:goodpost: Snap!!! LMFAO!!! :lol:
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Zeik Liberated
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ChaosKasier
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Re4_Wesker
Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:28 pm
Kind of a gross exaggeration here. In CCA, It was clear that Char wasn't taking that fight seriously. Gyunei noted that Char didn't use his funnels while fighting Amuro in the RE-GZ. Furthermore, Gyunei did nothing but get knocked around excessively (he may as well have not been there). Char knew Amuro couldn't beat him in that battle and allowed Amuro to escape.

You aren't wrong though. Amuro does ultimately beat Char. The skill gap however isn't as great as you are implying.

Not really Char uses a funnel right at the start of the battle and Amuro just avoids it and gets up close destroying Char's rifle before Char's stronger MS allows him to overpower Amuro up close. Char pulls back to save Gyunei and allow Amuro to live so he'd get his chance to fight Amuro with a on par MS and not a MS thats only slightly better than a grunt.

In the Nu Amuro is able to run Char about and make him waste his energy with his stronger cannons and weapons that should have gave Char the advantage in the fight before literally knocking his suit to pieces. There's a pretty obvious skill gap between the two.
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Wild Lion
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Legend
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Amuro had more experience with funnels than anyone and already proved in MSG that they were useless against him.

Anyway, this is really getting off topic. I do hope they have a lot less grinding to go in this new game, especially for plans and "bonds"
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Re4_Wesker
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Antagonist?
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Zeik Liberated
Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:21 pm
Not really Char uses a funnel right at the start of the battle and Amuro just avoids it and gets up close destroying Char's rifle before Char's stronger MS allows him to overpower Amuro up close. Char pulls back to save Gyunei and allow Amuro to live so he'd get his chance to fight Amuro with a on par MS and not a MS thats only slightly better than a grunt.

In the Nu Amuro is able to run Char about and make him waste his energy with his stronger cannons and weapons that should have gave Char the advantage in the fight before literally knocking his suit to pieces. There's a pretty obvious skill gap between the two.
Actually, yeah really and you've admitted it yourself. Char launched a single funnel but only a single funnel. Gyunei remarks that Char isn't using his Funnels after that event. Why? because Char could have just launched all of his funnels and ended the fight immediately by shooting down Amuro. Char wanted a fair fight so he let Amuro escape. Furthermore, Char could have just shot down Amuro instead of saving Gyunei. But Char's desire for a fair fight gets in the way and he lets Amuro go.


And as I said before, the skill gap isn't that great. Nu Gundam takes damage but Amuro manages to defeat Char. Obviously there is a skill gap but it isn't that large.

Quote:
 
plans and "bonds"


The friendship system wasn't very great in DWG 3 or even 2 for that matter. I hope they scrap it all together or find a new way to balance it out.

I actually liked the idea of a plans/blueprint list but the randomness of getting good ones in DWG 3 was also troublesome. Really hoping the implement some sort of shop for them this time around if they choose to keep them.
Edited by Re4_Wesker, Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:05 am.
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Wild Lion
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Re4_Wesker
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:03 am
Zeik Liberated
Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:21 pm
Not really Char uses a funnel right at the start of the battle and Amuro just avoids it and gets up close destroying Char's rifle before Char's stronger MS allows him to overpower Amuro up close. Char pulls back to save Gyunei and allow Amuro to live so he'd get his chance to fight Amuro with a on par MS and not a MS thats only slightly better than a grunt.

In the Nu Amuro is able to run Char about and make him waste his energy with his stronger cannons and weapons that should have gave Char the advantage in the fight before literally knocking his suit to pieces. There's a pretty obvious skill gap between the two.
Actually, yeah really and you've admitted it yourself. Char launched a single funnel but only a single funnel. Gyunei remarks that Char isn't using his Funnels after that event. Why? because Char could have just launched all of his funnels and ended the fight immediately by shooting down Amuro. Char wanted a fair fight so he let Amuro escape. Furthermore, Char could have just shot down Amuro instead of saving Gyunei. But Char's desire for a fair fight gets in the way and he lets Amuro go.


And as I said before, the skill gap isn't that great. Nu Gundam takes damage but Amuro manages to defeat Char. Obviously there is a skill gap but it isn't that large.

Quote:
 
plans and "bonds"


The friendship system wasn't very great in DWG 3 or even 2 for that matter. I hope they scrap it all together or find a new way to balance it out.

I actually liked the idea of a plans/blueprint list but the randomness of getting good ones in DWG 3 was also troublesome. Really hoping the implement some sort of shop for them this time around if they choose to keep them.
Not to mention money for upgrading them was a pain to acquire, and yet another grind.

The friendship system just needs to go. It's nothing but a barrier to unlocking suits and missions that requires nothing but wasted time looking for missions with certain characters to do over and over. There's no real way to even measure your progress with them, so you have to do a mission and just HOPE that it increased your friendship with someone.
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Re4_Wesker
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Antagonist?
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Black Lion
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Not to mention money for upgrading them was a pain to acquire, and yet another grind.

The friendship system just needs to go. It's nothing but a barrier to unlocking suits and missions that requires nothing but wasted time looking for missions with certain characters to do over and over. There's no real way to even measure your progress with them, so you have to do a mission and just HOPE that it increased your friendship with someone.
I think the shop in DWG 3 was actually a step in the right direction. Allowing us to spend points on pilot training and purchase skills rather than having to unlock them was a smart choice. Now if they just upped the amount of money/points you could get from each mission and added blueprints to the shop as well, things could actually work out.

If I recall, a friend of mine is stuck in DWG 3 because certain characters won't increase in friendship with him in spite of his best efforts. Not sure if he's missing something or not but he hasn't been able to finish all of the game because of this. Its for annoying reasons such as this that I would love to see this system go away.
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Zeik Liberated
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ChaosKasier
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They have already talked about weapon upgrading so I think it's safe to say the blueprint system is getting revamped into something more complex. As bad as it could be I'd like to see a return to go old fashioned leveling up or just paying gold to upgrade it. I've never liked all this random BS with the part system where you have to hope to get a good drop.

I like the idea of a friendship table that decides how character speak to you during missions but the whole forcing you to get everyone to max friendship is just a pain and only gets worse as the cast list expands. It just shouldn't be tied to unlocks
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Wild Lion
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Re4_Wesker
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:21 am
Black Lion
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Not to mention money for upgrading them was a pain to acquire, and yet another grind.

The friendship system just needs to go. It's nothing but a barrier to unlocking suits and missions that requires nothing but wasted time looking for missions with certain characters to do over and over. There's no real way to even measure your progress with them, so you have to do a mission and just HOPE that it increased your friendship with someone.
I think the shop in DWG 3 was actually a step in the right direction. Allowing us to spend points on pilot training and purchase skills rather than having to unlock them was a smart choice. Now if they just upped the amount of money/points you could get from each mission and added blueprints to the shop as well, things could actually work out.

If I recall, a friend of mine is stuck in DWG 3 because certain characters won't increase in friendship with him in spite of his best efforts. Not sure if he's missing something or not but he hasn't been able to finish all of the game because of this. Its for annoying reasons such as this that I would love to see this system go away.
The same thing happened to me. I gave up on 3 because I couldn't get certain friendships to raise, and so I couldn't unlock any more stages.

I mean, what's the point of "friendships" as a concept anyway if you don't even get any unique dialogue between characters? They all just spout off random phrases from their shows like they're just talking to themselves.

What would be cool is if raising friendship with someone on the opposing team would open up the chance for them to defect to your side once they meet you. Or having low friendship with someone on your team would make them likely to defect.
Edited by Wild Lion, Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:33 am.
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Nigoli
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ニゴリ
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To be fair, I didn't mind 3's Relation system compared to 2's where it wasn't global. Hence trying to acquire All Mission Clear in 2. (you actually needed to bring certain character's relations up for certain Missions to unlock, working on the character progression from the ground up). I also think it added more things to do with replay value in the game, especially for 3's sake being global.

Once you knew what you were doing with the system and knew how to get the rates up fine. Even without the skill, simply piloting the character more would increase the rate to LV4, and to the point where you'd have a new mission for the LV5 upgrade. I'm really hoping they do it globally / like 3 if it's back in.

Off the subject of this new game. I was able to clear 3's Achievements in 47 hours in a second run on the Japanese 360 version, not counting the Online Mode. I can only suggest giving it another try, it's much better than 2's. Trust me. :crazy:
Edited by Nigoli, Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:12 am.
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Heat
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I gave up on achieving beyond 50% of DW Gundam 2's trophies. It was far more daunting and much more boring than the other games in the series despite the exhaustive list of pilots, suits, and missions. The story missions for each character were bland and meaningless. I, for one, found Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 far better than the previous installations of the game despite the recycled maps (which you grow tired of rather quickly, if I am honest), the cheesy story mode and other flaws.

That being said, I am totally stoked for this new DW Gundam game! I REALLY hope they don't mess up and actually keep all the previous suits in DW Gundam 3, including the DLC ones (read as: DON'T TAKE AWAY MY ARIOS!). I like the new additions like the Impulse, the Strike and the Aegis but that could be because I am somewhat biased towards the SEED series =D.
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Wild Lion
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Heat
Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:24 am
I gave up on achieving beyond 50% of DW Gundam 2's trophies. It was far more daunting and much more boring than the other games in the series despite the exhaustive list of pilots, suits, and missions. The story missions for each character were bland and meaningless. I, for one, found Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 far better than the previous installations of the game despite the recycled maps (which you grow tired of rather quickly, if I am honest), the cheesy story mode and other flaws.

That being said, I am totally stoked for this new DW Gundam game! I REALLY hope they don't mess up and actually keep all the previous suits in DW Gundam 3, including the DLC ones (read as: DON'T TAKE AWAY MY ARIOS!). I like the new additions like the Impulse, the Strike and the Aegis but that could be because I am somewhat biased towards the SEED series =D.
I found GM1 to have the best story. Even if it's the same every time, it's just as entertaining every time and had the best character interactions of any crossover I've played to date, including SRW.

I hope they brought back whoever wrote that story for this game.
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