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Character Spinoff; Who should get there own game?
Topic Started: Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:05 pm (1,375 Views)
Super sunwukong
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The King of Monkeys !!!!
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Given that so many people have ideas on who should get their own spinoff due to Yukimura recently being given one I decided to make this so that we can talk about it to our heart's content without getting off topic on the main thread. I would add a poll but I'm afraid I'd end up forgetting people since there's so many .

Me personally I'd love to see spinoffs made for.....

Kotaro
Mitsuhide
Musashi
Nobunaga
And either Ieyasu or Nagamasa
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

I'd like to see one for Kanbei, so we can see how he got into his mess to begin with. Magoichi would be another good one
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Fūma
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Nobunaga-den, not only does it have excellent potential to cover new story angles, it'd also be a great way to bring to many missing characters, like Nohime, Ranmaru, Yoshimoto & Kennyo. I'm really hoping they make it one day.
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Lynnie
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:doge:


Kojuro.
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HokutoNoBen
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Nobunaga-den would also be my top choice. But failing that, I'd also take an Ieyasu-den that could feasibly accomplish a similar goal. Of course, such a game would cover the majority of the period, it may end up being as large as a "main" Basara title...
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Balder
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+3 for Nobunaga

Nobunaga's ascension is still uncharted territory in the Basara story, can introduce new characters with tons of relevance, the young Nobunaga design can be worked into the story, has myriads of important moments to build a story from and plenty of allies to play as both in story chapters that aren't played as Nobs himself or in a possible Free mode.


Don't think there's other characters I'd like to see having their own game. As much as I like Hideyoshi, Oichi and Hisahide, their stories covered everything for them (in Oichi's case, they even keep retreading the same moments).
I want to say Yoshitsugu but there's more chances of Basara getting released in the West than that happening.
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Fūma
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We could also see some new interesting character roles and story angles in a Nobunaga-den, assuming the story would be fairly accurate to history:
- Nobunaga & Ieyasu working together as allies
- Hideyoshi as a retainer under Nobunaga's rule, now that'd be something
- Toshiie, Matsu & Keiji during the time while they still work directly in service of Oda clan
- Motonari, Magoichi & Kennyo working together during Ishiyama-Honganji war, particularly the battle of Kizugawaguchi
- Hideyoshi vs. Mitsuhide at Yamazaki, the vengeance storyline
- Oichi's relationship with Katsuie after Nagamasa dies, they could perhaps include the battle of Shizugatake as an epilogue stage after the main story

And so on. Honestly the more I think about the better idea it seems like.
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Super sunwukong
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Fuuma
Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:13 pm
We could also see some new interesting character roles and story angles in a Nobunaga-den, assuming the story would be fairly accurate to history:
- Nobunaga & Ieyasu working together as allies
- Hideyoshi as a retainer under Nobunaga's rule, now that'd be something
- Toshiie, Matsu & Keiji during the time while they still work directly in service of Oda clan
- Motonari, Magoichi & Kennyo working together during Ishiyama-Honganji war, particularly the battle of Kizugawaguchi
- Hideyoshi vs. Mitsuhide at Yamazaki, the vengeance storyline
- Oichi's relationship with Katsuie after Nagamasa dies, they could perhaps include the battle of Shizugatake as an epilogue stage after the main story

And so on. Honestly the more I think about the better idea it seems like.
But wouldn't Nobunaga's tale end at honnoji( forgive me if I spelled it wrong) , I mean didn't his son Nobutada die there as well. All those things you mentioned happened after his death which would ideally be the end of the game's story.
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Fūma
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Super sunwukong
Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:48 pm
Fuuma
Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:13 pm
We could also see some new interesting character roles and story angles in a Nobunaga-den, assuming the story would be fairly accurate to history:
- Nobunaga & Ieyasu working together as allies
- Hideyoshi as a retainer under Nobunaga's rule, now that'd be something
- Toshiie, Matsu & Keiji during the time while they still work directly in service of Oda clan
- Motonari, Magoichi & Kennyo working together during Ishiyama-Honganji war, particularly the battle of Kizugawaguchi
- Hideyoshi vs. Mitsuhide at Yamazaki, the vengeance storyline
- Oichi's relationship with Katsuie after Nagamasa dies, they could perhaps include the battle of Shizugatake as an epilogue stage after the main story

And so on. Honestly the more I think about the better idea it seems like.
But wouldn't Nobunaga's tale end at honnoji( forgive me if I spelled it wrong) , I mean didn't his son Nobutada die there as well. All those things you mentioned happened after his death which would ideally be the end of the game's story.
Hmm... I don't think so. Nobunaga & Ieyasu work together during the Azai-Asakura campaign and Nagashino. Hideyoshi, Toshiie, Matsu & Keiji all serve as Oda retainers from as early as Okehazama, which could be the 2nd stage (after Katsuie's rebellion). And the Ishiyama-Honganji war and Kizugawaguchi take place around during the 1570s.

I think both Yamazaki & Shizugatake could appear as bonus epilogue stages after Honnoji since they occur so soon after Honnoji and most of the characters involved in those battles are the central characters in the main story: Hideyoshi, Mitsuhide, Oichi, Katsuie, Toshiie etc... these two battles are pretty much direct results of Nobunaga's death and they are needed to bring closure to the storylines of these character (especially Mitsuhide, Oichi & Katsuie).

Of course, we could have an alternative ending where Nobunaga actually survives Honnoji but that wouldn't be very historically accurate :P

Even though it'd called Nobunaga-den it doesn't mean that it has to end the moment Nobunaga dies. There's so much potential for the few events that occur afterward. I'd draw the line before Komaki-Nagakute though, since Ieyasu was just an ally of Nobunaga and he wouldn't be among the most prominent characters in the main story. TBH I changed my mind, Shizugatake would make an amazing final stage in the story (if they played their cards right and setup the story properly for that) even if the main character isn't actually there.
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Super sunwukong
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First off my apologies for not being clear I wasn't referring to the earlier battles such as nagashino and okehazama and the other campaigns. I was speaking on those after honnoji because I thought things would be rather strange continuing the story without him given that he would be the main character , unless they try to put emphasis on his influence .
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Nobunaga-den would be great!!

However, I'm going to throw my hat into the fray and say-- UESUGI KENSHIN-DEN.

Now we have no idea how these side games work. However, I'd assume it's divided by levels and such, like a typical action game. Presuming that one (or both) of the new Sanada are playable as per KobaP's hinting in Dengeki, we'll probably end up with 5-6 playable characters in Yukimura's game- Yukimura himself, Masamune, Sasuke, Masayuki and/or Nobuyuki, and perhaps Mitsunari or Shingen.

With that in mind, I'd submit these characters for a Kenshin game:
Kenshin, Kasuga, Keiji, Sadamitsu (as a new character, given he was in the Takarazuka show as one of Kenshin's retainers), and maybe a reworked Kanetsugu (doesn't need to stop being silly, but should be able to hold his own)
Additional new (NPC-only) characters would be Kuroda Hidetada, Uesugi Norimasa (cutscene only), Nagao Masakage, and Uesugi Kagetora (Ujiyasu's 7th son, Kenshin's adopted son)... and Kagekatsu if you go with the first of my plot ideas rather than the second as I shall.

Could go one of two ways - End at Tedorigawa with Kenshin defeating the demon king, but passing away shortly after... or, could do what they already did in SB3 and extend Kenshin's life to include Kagekatsu's lifespan. I'm gonna go with the latter.

Here's a list of battles that could work as stages. Note that historially Kenshin goes by Kagetora until 1559, when he becomes Terutora, and then doesn't become Kenshin until the mid-late 60s. However, to make things easier, as with how Yukimura will no doubt go by Yukimura in spite of never having been called that historically, Kenshin will just always be Kenshin.

1) Battle of Tochio - 1544
Kenshin vs. Nagao rebels, headed by Kuroda Hidetada
2) Battle of Niiyama - 1546
Sadamitsu vs. Kuroda Hidetada
3) Ueda-Nagao rebellion - 1551
Kenshin vs. Masakage
4) Siege of Karasawayama - 1552
Kenshin vs. Hojo Ujimasa (Not an actual historical battle of note but Kenshin did end up fighting at Karasawayama as a sieger and defender 10 times, thus representative of the Kanto campaign in the 1550s)
5) First Battle of Kawanakajima (Shioda Castle) - 1553
Sadamitsu vs. Shingen
6) Third Battle of Kawanakajima (Katsurayama Castle) - 1557
Kenshin vs. Sanada Masayuki
7) Attack at the Capital - 1559
Kasuga vs. Ashikaga Yoshiteru (and Kenshin~) (Reference to the Miyoshi who incidentally forced Yoshiteru out of the capital around the time of Kenshin's second (third?) visit to Kyoto; in this case Kasuga comes to assassinate Yoshiteru, ends up against Kenshin and ends up joining Kenshin)
8) First Siege of Odawara - 1560
Kasuga vs. Fuma Kotaro
9) Fourth Battle of Kawanakajima (Saijosan) - 1561
Kenshin vs. Shingen
10) The Boating Incident - 1564
Sadamitsu vs. Masakage
11) Ikko Uprising in Etchu - 1565
Kenshin vs. Kennyo
12) Ikko Uprising in Noto (Siege of Nanao) - 1567~1577
Kasuga vs. Kennyo (Another sort of "representative" battle, of Kenshin's tirades against Honganji-aligned Ikko Ikki and of the capture of Noto province)
13) Battle of Tetorigawa - 1577
Kenshin vs. Nobunaga
14) Otate no Ran - 1578
Kenshin vs. Kagetora
15) Battle of Kannagawa - 1582
Keiji vs. Kotaro
16) Battle of Shizugatake - 1583
Kenshin vs. Katsuie (The Uesugi were not present at Shizugatake- however, they did aid in combating the Shibata forces in Etchu and North Kaga)
17) 1st Siege of Ueda - 1585
Keiji vs. Ieyasu
18) Great Siege of Odawara - 1590
Kenshin vs. Ujimasa
20) Battle of Hasedo - 1600
Keiji vs. Masamune (With Yoshiaki, of course~)
21) 2nd Ueda Siege - 1600
Kasuga vs. Sasuke
22) Siege of Osaka - 1615
Kenshin vs. Yukimura

Obviously, some can be trimmed- Odawara might be a better ending point for a concise conclusion to the warring of the Kanto, for instance, among other things. You could also alternatively easily remove the battles from Kenshin's early life, thus removing the need for too many new NPCs.

Also other things can be replaced- I noticed a lack of battles against the Takeda for a Kenshin game, so something could be done to incorporate them into the Otate no Ran or to include one of the post-Kawanakajima skirmishes before Shingen's death. I also think maybe a few additional Sekigahara-era skirmishes between Uesugi and the other northern lords could be added- only problem is, Yoshiaki isn't the most impressive foe and Masamune is already gonna be featured heavily in Yukimura-den. I also ideally would like Kasuga and Keiji to have at least one more stage each, but I feel like each of the stages Kenshin's playable in kinda fit for Kenshin best.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:43 am.
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Fūma
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Super sunwukong
Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:55 am
First off my apologies for not being clear I wasn't referring to the earlier battles such as nagashino and okehazama and the other campaigns. I was speaking on those after honnoji because I thought things would be rather strange continuing the story without him given that he would be the main character , unless they try to put emphasis on his influence .
It's okay :P Yes, I don't think it would hurt to include a couple of stages after his death when they are exactly ones that are direct results of Honnoji and it'd wrap up the storylines with majority of the starring characters. Hideyoshi, Mitsuhide, Katsuie & Toshiie are all among the most prominent Oda retainers out there so that's why I think it's necessary to cover Yamazaki & Shizugatake and then end it there.

Mewshuji
Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:58 am
15) That one Takigawa-Hojo battle I keep forgetting the name of - 1582
Keiji vs. Kotaro
That'd be the Battle of Kanagawa. Took place around the border of Musashi & Kozuke provinces, with the Hojo clan winning the conflict.
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wodash
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i'll just support the Retsuden team and vote for Xavi and Hondam gaiden :doge:

Kyushu Retsuden also sounds awesome though, imagine Yukimura Den but with Chesto and Muneshige instead of Masa-Yuki :beard:
Edited by wodash, Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:25 pm.
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Fūma
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I dunno how Xavi's spinoff would work if it's historically accurate... maybe they just make a story where he, Sorin & Muneshige travel around Japan and they try to convert everyone to Xavism :lol:
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Ahhh thank you Fuuma! :D
Aww no feedback?

And yeah I have no idea how Xavi Gaiden would work. He was in Japan for only 3 years. It'd only work as a "Xavism gaiden" which I guess given Maria isn't a Xavist would really be more a Sorin gaiden. Unless they drop the historical pretense. :lol:
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Fūma
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Feedback.. well I think your story setup is very nice! :D 22 stages is a good number for the story, I actually made a draft for Nobunaga-den and ended with almost same amount of stages, might post it here later.

I'm not sure what I think about extending Kenshin's lifespan by about 37 years, though :P I feel the story could just end at Hideyoshi's Siege of Odawara. I would add Siege of Hachigata (1590) there, though, it's where Toshiie & Kagekatsu attack Hojo during Odawara, you could just replace Kagekatsu with Kenshin of course.

You could also throw in Battle of Tonegawa (1571) there if you want to emphasis Kenshin vs Shingen even more, I guess.
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Yukimi
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Nobunaga is my choice as well. That way we could see something more of him than just murderous bastard. Nouhime and Ranmaru would be a nice bonus.
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Fūma
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Alright, here's my "vision" of a Nobunaga-den. We don't know much about how Yukimura-den or other possible spin-off games will work, but here I basically attempt to make one long campaign that centers around Nobunaga and his most relevant retainers (and other close characters). It will be fairly historically accurate, though some unique characters replace commanders that would otherwise be just generics: Since we've seen that in this series generics have a non-existent role (compared to e.g SW) it's really the only way to go without adding the actual characters.

Playable characters are:
Nobunaga, Katsuie, Toshiie, Hideyoshi, Ranmaru, Nohime, Oichi and Nagahide Niwa who's a new character. So basically 8 characters... 6 males and 2 females, seems like a good ratio.

There will of course be other supporting characters like Mitsuhide, Matsu, Keiji, Ieyasu etc. who might appear as non-controllable allies in select battles.

And the rest of the cast consists of characters who appear as bosses in the story. Dosan Saito is a new NPC.

And then the campaign. I sort of tried to give Basara-ish names to some battles :lol:

:demonking: EPIC STORY OF THE ODA CLAN :demonking:

Prologue
1) Conflict at Kanouguchi (vs. Dosan), short tutorial stage

Chapter 1 - 1556-1568
2) Battle of Inou (vs. Katsuie)
3) Ambush at Okehazama (vs. Yoshimoto, Ieyasu, Tadakatsu, Naotora)
4) Constructing Sunomata Fort (vs. Hanbei)
5) Subjugation of Mino (vs. Dosan, Hanbei, Mitsuhide)
6) Attack on the Capital (vs. Yoshiteru, Hisahide, Kotaro)

Chapter 2 - 1568-1573
7) Siege of Kannonji Castle (vs. Hisahide, Kotaro)
8) Kanegasaki Nightmare (vs. Nagamasa, Oichi)
9) Battle of Anegawa (vs. Nagamasa, Oichi, Maria)
10) Siege of Nagashima (vs. Kennyo, Magoichi)
11) Siege of Odani Castle (vs. Nagamasa, Maria)

Chapter 3 - 1573-1577
12) Cliffs of Mikatagahara (vs. Shingen, Yukimura, Sasuke)*
13) Takatenjin Fort Defense (vs. Sasuke), could be like The Last Stand in SB3
14) Nagashino Cavalry Charge (vs. Yukimura, Sasuke), Yukimura takes Katsuyori's role
15) Kizugawa Naval Battle (vs. Motonari, Kennyo, Magoichi)
16) Conspiracy at Shigisan Castle (vs. Hisahide)

Chapter 4 - 1577-1582
17) Constructing Azuchi Castle (vs. Itsuki)
18) Flooding Tetorigawa (vs. Kenshin, Kasuga, Muteki)
19) Assault at Echigo (vs. Kenshin, Kasuga, Yukimura, Sasuke)
20) Battle of Itsukushima (vs. Motonari), Hideyoshi's campaign against Mori
21) Incident at Honnouji (vs. Mitsuhide)

Epilogue
22) Yamazaki Punitive Battle (vs. Mitsuhide)
23) Final Showdown at Shizugatake (vs. Katsuie, Oichi, Masamune, Kojuro, Kenshin, Kasuga)**

* Odani & Mikatagahara are swapped because it's better for story narration. Mikatagahara doesn't have much to do with Oda but I'd like to highlight the alliance between Oda & Tokugawa as much as possible.
** Some additional bosses, it's the final stage after all :P and you can't have a Basara game without Masamune anyway, he has to show up somewhere.

I might add some details of each battle later, but this is the first draft. I think those stages would work well. I did consider having a semi-what-if scenario where Nagahide could perhaps successfully invade Shikoku and battle against Motochika and Tsuru, unlike in history where he withdrew his forces before landing on the island (due to the events of Honnoji). He'd be a new character so that's why he should get some extra focus.

EDIT: Made some changes based on the feedback :hehe:
Edited by Fūma, Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:13 pm.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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OOoh, I really like the idea.
Unfortunately even if they go "historical" I'm not so sure they'd ever show Hideyoshi as Nobunaga's subordinate. They seem kinda keen on separating Oda and Toyotomi- especially noticeable as Nobunaga outlived Hanbei and thus was always sort of his lord, not Hideyoshi. It'd be nice seeing that relationship in Basara for once though. I'd also personally swap Mitsuhide with Ranmaru- help lighten up the Oda a bit.

Azuchi could be vs. Itsuki perhaps? A sort of peasant rebellion, showing Nobunaga's slide from being just a "rebel with a cause" to the "dark side" is complete. Would also give Kenshin reason to mobilize, if Ashikaga getting the boot isn't enough.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:49 am.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

I also have one question for the Oda/Tokugawa alliance you guys have ideas for...we're assuming this is adult Ieyasu, right? Not child like he was in the first season?

Also, I really like that idea, Fuuma. I'm also thinking that perhaps Nobunaga's mother would show up in one of those battles, she disliked what Nobunaga became and thought that his brother was a better fit for the clan-not unlike Yoshihime, but a little less...violent, I guess
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Fūma
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Uesugi Kenshin
Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:47 am
OOoh, I really like the idea.
Unfortunately even if they go "historical" I'm not so sure they'd ever show Hideyoshi as Nobunaga's subordinate. They seem kinda keen on separating Oda and Toyotomi- especially noticeable as Nobunaga outlived Hanbei and thus was always sort of his lord, not Hideyoshi. It'd be nice seeing that relationship in Basara for once though. I'd also personally swap Mitsuhide with Ranmaru- help lighten up the Oda a bit.

Azuchi could be vs. Itsuki perhaps? A sort of peasant rebellion, showing Nobunaga's slide from being just a "rebel with a cause" to the "dark side" is complete. Would also give Kenshin reason to mobilize, if Ashikaga getting the boot isn't enough.
Hideyoshi serving Oda would definitely conflict a lot with the current events in Basara, that's for sure, but I think it's the perfect opportunity to do some major changes to the established roles. We've always seen Hideyoshi as the ultimate conqueror leader, so I think it'd be very interesting to see a Hideyoshi who's a humble retainer of Nobunaga. However, we could have character development here as he would slowly evolve to his classic Basara self and develop that ambition for power, and it would basically culminate at Yamazaki where he decides to aim to conquer the entire land after slaying Mitsuhide. And then at Shizugatake we could have Toshiie trying to negotiate peace between Katsuie & Hideyoshi, but Hideyoshi could just push him away and crush Katsuie anyway as there'd be no obstacles for his thirst of power and strength.

Swapping Mitsuhide with Ranmaru is actually a good idea, as the former is sort of an antagonist in the story while the latter is actually a solid Oda character. And it makes sense from gameplay perspective as a lot of people would probably be bummed when Ranmaru returns but not as playable even though it'd be very realistic to expect that. :hehe:

As for the Azuchi, I'm really liking that idea as well! Would be a nice way to bring back Itsuki, and you're right, it'd help promote the even more evil image of Nobunaga across the land.

Katatonia
Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:20 am
I also have one question for the Oda/Tokugawa alliance you guys have ideas for...we're assuming this is adult Ieyasu, right? Not child like he was in the first season?

Also, I really like that idea, Fuuma. I'm also thinking that perhaps Nobunaga's mother would show up in one of those battles, she disliked what Nobunaga became and thought that his brother was a better fit for the clan-not unlike Yoshihime, but a little less...violent, I guess
Yeah, adult Ieyasu :D I was thinking Ieyasu could appear as a kid at Okehazama just for the kicks, but it's probably not necessary. If he did then we'd probably have to apply some sort of aging system to the game and I feel it might not be worth it.

About Nobunaga's mother, I'm not actually very familiar with her. Need to do some further research :lol:

But anyway thanks for the feedback both of you ^_^
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Super sunwukong
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Well an aging system should be included just so that we can finally have a young Nobunaga ( cause it'd be weird having our current one fighting Dosan)

And the whole hideyoshi thing could be pre-matsunaga ( before he became obsessed with POWER!) and then have him transition into his normal self.

Then for stories I'd really be interested in kotaro's tale because that could bring forth plenty of other things that we've wanted for a really long time now such as ....
The Hojo ( their history because he worked/served them and we may get Ujiyasu)
More Shinobi action( if the main character is one you have to)
The Fuma ( learn more about kotaro and his clan)
HANZO HATTORI !!!!( He's almost a must if this were to happen)
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Sima Fu
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I would like to see spinoffs Nobunaga-den, Ieyasu-den and Zabiikyou-den. Primarily because I want to see how the story turns out after Capcom smashes the history and mixes it with historical accuracy and their ideas.

I secretly wish that Capcom can add more Tokugawa vassals in Ieyasu-den. Hanzo and Naomasa please~

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Fūma
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I have a draft for Kanbei-den, but it's not quite ready yet. I have about half of the story covered already: epilogue, chapter 1 and chapter 2 are done now. This time I actually put a description for each battle so it's not just a simple list of battles like what Nobunaga-den was...

I kinda struggle to figure out what I want to emphasis on and whether any other characters should get character development alongside him from this point onward. I already have a crazy epilogue in mind for him, though, involving the religion aspect and Zabii returning to Japan.
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Ittousai
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What characters do you think would be good for a Masamune-den, beyond the obvious trio of Masamune, Kojuro, and Yukimura. Yoshiaki is an obvious choice as well.

I feel like they could probably introduce Yoshihime as a new antagonist character to go with Yoshiaki. She's the most reasonable addition, imo.

Megohime is right out, since we can't have Masamune consorting with those women-types in Basara.

But, what would you guys think about Katakura Kita, as both a female addition on Masamune's side, and as another character for Kojuro to interact with due to them being half-siblings. I think there's potential there for sure.

You could also perhaps add Date Shigezane and Oniniwa Tsunamoto to have the Great Men of Date, but I was wonder what you guys would think of that. Tsunamoto is even half-siblings with Kita as well, so it'd be a neat way to get a "family" theme going among the Date.

That's a good cast of eight as well. 4 returning characters, 4 new characters, including two new female additions. It works out pretty well, if you ask me. Though, having Masamune-den directly after Yukimura-den would probably be a little lazy in that respect. Since Masamune and Yukimura just had their movesets updated.
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