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Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada; New Characters: Sanada Masayuki, Chacha, Sasuke, Lady Muramatsu, Takeda Katsuyori, Tokugawa Hidetada
Topic Started: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:15 pm (168,881 Views)
Fūma
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The Dragon Has Returned
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As I've said before, the supposed aging system is mostly just a relatively easy technique to make the game feel more realistic and mainly to show that a lot of time passes within the story. I don't think there is much more to it than that and the movesets are likely to stay the same because I don't think it will bother anyone if old Yukimura fights the same way as young Yukimura.

Why the aging system hasn't been added a long time ago already, I have no clue, but I'm glad they now picked it up because it isn't very convincing that when the story covers literally many, many decades, the characters look the same. I'm just hoping the aging feature will affect a lot of characters here, or actually, everyone who's around long enough that they need more than 1 character model.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

Takakage needs that age system badly. He's older than both Tadakatsu and Yoshihiro and he looks like walking jailbait

Speaking of Tadakatsu, he needs it, too, since he ages at least 40 years. Him and Ieyasu
Edited by Katatonia, Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:54 pm.
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Mr.Honda
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Katatonia
Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:53 pm
Speaking of Tadakatsu, he needs it, too, since he ages at least 40 years. Him and Ieyasu
:yes:

I would very much like to see some old man Honda :asia: :honda:

Whether or not they choose to implement that for all characters in this game, or just those featured in the story, I don't know, but I'd like to see the aging system across their other games eventually, as cosmetic a feature as it is.
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Fūma
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The Dragon Has Returned
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Mitsuhide too, he was like 55 when he killed Nobunaga at Honnouji, not a guy in his twenties as it looks like in the games... just one example, there's tons of more but that one always bothered me for some reason.
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Katatonia
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destroy.erase.improve

I forgot about him, yeah, especially when he's supposed to be 25 with a 16-17 year old daughter :lol:
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The Outsider
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The Demon's Rival
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Rance
Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:28 pm
It's seriously just the equivalent of a fancy hat. You're way too easily entertained if you feel that giving Yukimura some hairs on his face makes the game that much more immersive, let alone deeper.

Bread and circuses.
Great that's your opinion. However don't start pissing on my parade because I'm glad the series is taking a step in the right direction, there's no reason to have a go at me for it.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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I'm a professional parade pisser and perennial party pooper. All I'm saying is that while the aging is nice, it really is largely insignificant. It barely makes any difference whatsoever.
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Ixbran
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at most the aging mechanic would be nice for alternate costumes for the characters. make them mandatory in the story, but then make them costumes you can chose in other modes

though, in terms of child ages, like Young Yukimura, I can see that functioning as a completely separate character, with a unique move set.

would be a great way to bring back SW1!Oichi and SW1!Masemune, I miss the cup and ball moveset and the twin wood swords.
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Makörë
Makörë
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AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:05 pm
Both Hideyori and Hidetada at this point are most possible additions due to them appearing in anime.
Hell, no, they are not. If anything, they are among the ones who have the least chance.
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CrimsonRonin
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Soldier
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So how many new characters does everyone think we will get? I'm gonna say 4 or 5. We got masayuki so probably one or two osaka buddies for yuki maybe matebei or morichika or both. I would imagine a new female character so either akihime or one of the sanada sisters maybe. Would be nice for one takeda character but i doubt it so sasuke or saizo to round it out.
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Mr.Honda
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Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:44 am
AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:05 pm
Both Hideyori and Hidetada at this point are most possible additions due to them appearing in anime.
Hell, no, they are not. If anything, they are among the ones who have the least chance.
I'm having a hard time seeing why they wouldn't be, they were given unique designs in SW4-2 of all games, based on their appearance in the anime.

Err, more that I don't see why they'd have the least chance.
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wodash
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undefeated in all directions
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Ixbran
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:12 am
though, in terms of child ages, like Young Yukimura, I can see that functioning as a completely separate character, with a unique move set.

would be a great way to bring back SW1!Oichi and SW1!Masemune, I miss the cup and ball moveset and the twin wood swords.
i actually have a feeling that the kid yukimura would've been a clone of the not-old yukimura, or have a watered down moveset

OR all 3 yukimuras share the same basic moveset but with different fighting style and musou finishers? i can see kid Yuki spamming Godspeed, regular using Charge moveset, and old using either Special or Normal

and i totally forgot about Kendama Oichi :wacko:
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Makörë
Makörë
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Mr.Honda
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:57 am
Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:44 am
AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:05 pm
Both Hideyori and Hidetada at this point are most possible additions due to them appearing in anime.
Hell, no, they are not. If anything, they are among the ones who have the least chance.
I'm having a hard time seeing why they wouldn't be, they were given unique designs in SW4-2 of all games, based on their appearance in the anime.

Err, more that I don't see why they'd have the least chance.

Because many other characters received unique designs before them in SW4, that means absolutely nothing. And they appear extremely late in the events and have absolutely nothing to add that other characters haven't, except said characters can add that and more.

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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Except this is going to be a game with older Yukimura, so it's incredibly likely that Osaka will be a main draw of the game as it'd be pointless to give him a whole different moveset just for two stages. So Hideyori and Hidetada will have plenty to do. Hell, if there's any game where they have the most chance- it's this one.

They brought back Kojiro for SW4, what a character did historically seems to no longer matter, just their significance.

It helps both are interesting characters. Probably the only reason I've given half a thought to look into the anime as I don't plan on buying 4-II.
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:28 am.
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Makörë
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Ōsaka can barely be more than two battles (if more than one at all), there is absolutely no reason to add two useless characters just because of a single event when multiple others can contribute MUCH more than them.
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bluefiend
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Rance
Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:11 am
It really doesn't. It's an almost purely aesthetic feature that does practically nothing in concrete terms for the gameplay. It's the equivalent of KOEI adding fancy hats to the game and you lavishing praise on them for their brilliant innovation. While yes, fancy hats are nice and so is aging, I don't see how they add "depth" at all.
This. I've never understood the want for aging characters, everyone that plays the games knows characters are aging and that time is passing so why should koei bother wasting their time by creating 2-3 character models per character?
Edited by bluefiend, Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:59 am.
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Zai Tong
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AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:20 pm
Zai Tong
Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:10 pm
So hideyori another liu chan and hidetada another yuan shao lol oh dear that's going to be annoying
While Hidetada's comparision to Yuan Shao somewhat can work (even if only slightly. Very slightly), Hideyori is nothing like Liu Shan. Have you checked their personalities?
The games makes hideyori seem weak unsure of what to do and is supposed to live up to his fathers legacy I said liu. Chan as the only time I see him not like that is a cutscene from XL7 and like hideyori he was expected to live up to his fathers legacy
Maya
Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:18 pm
Kunoichi certainly does not need much screen time in this game which wants to be more historical. Her character has absolutely no role at all and just is a waste of a character spot anyway which could be needed by many other characters over the course of the game for example Sasuke, Yodo or Akihime.

In fact it's really bad that they still have not removed her, her character has not point since she doesn't even represent the 10 Braves properly.
She was good in sw1 they should have stuck with that attitude and design but then koei destroyed her
Fuuma
Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:27 pm
As I've said before, the supposed aging system is mostly just a relatively easy technique to make the game feel more realistic and mainly to show that a lot of time passes within the story. I don't think there is much more to it than that and the movesets are likely to stay the same because I don't think it will bother anyone if old Yukimura fights the same way as young Yukimura.

Why the aging system hasn't been added a long time ago already, I have no clue, but I'm glad they now picked it up because it isn't very convincing that when the story covers literally many, many decades, the characters look the same. I'm just hoping the aging feature will affect a lot of characters here, or actually, everyone who's around long enough that they need more than 1 character model.
Koei needs to allow that age to effect kanetsugu too it be a little weird with him not aging alongside Yukimura since he was there for Osaka as well
Edited by Zai Tong, Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:09 am.
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AntonKutovoi
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Legend
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Zai Tong
Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:06 am
AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:20 pm
Zai Tong
Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:10 pm
So hideyori another liu chan and hidetada another yuan shao lol oh dear that's going to be annoying
While Hidetada's comparision to Yuan Shao somewhat can work (even if only slightly. Very slightly), Hideyori is nothing like Liu Shan. Have you checked their personalities?
The games makes hideyori seem weak unsure of what to do and is supposed to live up to his fathers legacy I said liu. Chan as the only time I see him not like that is a cutscene from XL7 and like hideyori he was expected to live up to his fathers legacy
Most likely his personality will be based upon the anime, where he shows a middle finger to Ieyasu:
-Really, Master Ieyasu, if you want country this badly, you just need to ask.
-And will you give it to me, then?
-No.
When Ieyasu suggests Hideyori to live in Edo (aka become a hostage), Hideyori invites Ieyasu to live in Osaka instead ("since you are retired anyway")

And baiting Hidetada.
-We know that Yukimura arrived in Osaka. Hand him over immediately.
-We have about ten Yukimuras there. I don't know who is the real one, so you should come see for yourself.
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The Outsider
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The Demon's Rival
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Rance
Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:10 am
I'm a professional parade pisser and perennial party pooper. All I'm saying is that while the aging is nice, it really is largely insignificant. It barely makes any difference whatsoever.
Great, well next time you state why you don't like something try to do it without making it personal against another forum member.
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Uesugi Kenshin
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Mewshuji
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Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:33 am
Ōsaka can barely be more than two battles (if more than one at all), there is absolutely no reason to add two useless characters just because of a single event when multiple others can contribute MUCH more than them.
Are you being serious right now?
Do you realize how much Koei condenses Osaka?
A lot. A whole lot. Several battles took place over a two month period in the winter and a one month period in the summer. Most battles in the series that aren't just compilations of whole campaigns with spread out battles took place on one, maybe two days. Osaka is three months' worth of battles condensed into one, two in Chronicles.

Here's a few battles that occurred during the two sieges. Given, several of the battles don't have any of the current Samurai Warriors characters involved, but stand ins could be used.

Imafuku - Late November 1614
The first of the major battles. Satake forces leading the Shogun-loyalists. At first the Satake successfully repelled the Toyotomi loyalists, before reinforcements lead by Kimura Shigenari and Goto Matabei entered the fray and killed large numbers of Satake's men, causing them to retreat. Uesugi Kagekatsu came with his own reinforcements, forcing Kimura and Goto to retreat. This resulted in the Tokugawa loyalists gaining Imafuku village as a base.

Shigino - November 26, 1614
Lead by Uesugi Kagekatsu, the Tokugawa loyalists launched an assault on the site of "Shigino", across the river from Imafuku. Kagekatsu refused to rest when Tokugawa sent orders for him to pull back and rest, saying it was not the Uesugi way to abandon a battlefield unless it was lost. A larger battle than Imafuku, if more straightforward.

Kizugawa - November 29, 1614
An assault on a fortress along the banks of the Kizugawa. Hachisuka and Ishikawa (not related to Goemon) forces launched an on the base- Hachisuka leading a ground assault with Ishikawa Tadafusa leading a 2300 men strong assault from the river itself, using boats.

Noda-Fukushima - Early December, 1614
Tokugawa forces lead an attack on Noda-Fukushima, defended by Ono Harutane. A sort of naval battle, the Kuki and Tokugawa personal navy were among those who came into the river via the sea, aiding in the attack on Harutane's position. This battle forced the Toyotomi back to Osaka castle near-proper...

Sanadamaru - December 4 - 18, 1614
The last major "battle" of the winter sieges. This is where Yukimura first shines at Osaka, successfully defending Osaka from his Sanadamaru installation. On December 4 in particular, a battle between 7000 of Yukimura's troops occurred against 10000~30,000 of Tokugawa's troops, with several more large skirmishes happening between the 4th and the 18th. It was one of the few outlying forts to not be taken successfully by December 18, and given it's defense of a major wall of Osaka, it gave the Toyotomi the advantage in the overall siege in spite of all their losses. It forced the Tokugawa to begin bombarding Osaka. The bombardments were more annoyance than truly able to damage Osaka, but the shock was enough to make Yodo-dono force her son to ask for a truce from Tokugawa- which was agreed upon the condition the Toyotomi not "rebel" against the Tokugawa again. This lead to the dismantlement of the Sanadamaru and the filling in of Osaka's outer moats.

Now we come to summer....

Not sure of the battle name, but there is this battle to consider that happened on May 7:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?460314-Osaka-May-7th-1615-The-greatest-victory-ever-in-the-Se-no-Japanese-history!
Gist is that the Jinbo, Tokugawa allies, went forth to do battle with the Sanada... but, given the fog, the Sanada had holed back up in their fortress. The Date, also on the Tokugawa side of things, came riding up behind them, and either confusing the Jinbo for the Sanada (given forces both wore red) or just itching to fight... and just absolutely blew them away with their muskets. All of the Jinbo clan and their direct retainers present there died, with many ashigaru and other footsoldiers dying as well. Only one son, who was hostage of the Shogunate, survived. Needless to say that Ieyasu was not pleased in the slightest.

Kashii - May 26, 1615
A battle part of the sieges that actually occurred further from Osaka than the others. Several ambush skirmishes (along with the Date's own overeager attack on May 7) up until this point put the Tokugawa army on edge, making the Toyotomi a bit more overeager than they need be. Asano Nagaakira, lord of Wakayama castle, faced his own siege by Ono Harunaga, in an attempt to gain another major castle to defend themselves from the Tokugawa given Osaka's loss of its moats. However, Nagaakira recognized that Ono's forces were far from reinforcements and help, and thus sallied forth his whole army to battle at Kashii. Two of Ono's most valued generals died in the battle, forcing him to retreat back to Osaka.

Yao - Late May or Early June, 1615
In Kiwachi province, Chosokabe forces loyal to the Toyotomi do battle with the Tokugawa-loyal Todo clan. While the Todo clan succeed in smashing the Chosokabe army, Takatora loses both of his sons in the battle.

Domyoji - June 3, 1615
In the still of still-dark morning hours, Goto Matabei recieved reports that Tokugawa loyalist forces lead by the Date army were on the move, and so made a hurried response towards Komatsuyama to do battle with them. Though dealing a heavy blow against the Shogunate forces, his own forces were pushed up to Komatsuyama's summit- where he was hit by a bullet and forced to commit seppuku. From there, Susukida Kanesuke took control of the Toyotomi forces, leading them back down Komatsuyama and lead the left flank of the Osaka castle forces. He fought the Tokugawa forces fiercely and died- leaving Yukimura and his reinforcements to pick up the battle. And here is where Yukimura and the Date army squared off. The two armies do battle until around 5 PM, where Yukimura retreats back to Osaka. One of Ieyasu's sons is ordered to take over for the Date who are exhausted by now and pursue Yukimura... but refuses, and gets exiled after the sieges conclude.

Tennoji - June 4, 1615
In spite of Yukimura's successful retreat, the Toyotomi are now on the losing end of things, and with the moats filled in, have no hope of defending against a proper siege of Osaka. Hideyori and his closest confidants gather and make a plan. It is decided that Yukimura will lead full might of the Osaka forces in battle again the Tokugawa. Ieyasu's presence at this battle boosted the Tokugawa morale to the point that, even when Ieyasu himself got stuck by a spear, they still fought on. This is where Yukimura fought to his death, and Hideyori attempted escape, only to be forced to commit suicide- supposedly, anyway.


From this, I think it's clear even if you don't use all these battles, there are at least four that can be gleaned from the Summer campaign and two or three from Winter. Several of them- Noda-Fukushima and Kizugawa in particular- could even use maps from SW4 that would not have been previously used in this particular title given the Sanada clan's distance from the general Osaka area until the sieges proper.
Also MCG I don't think Rance was saying "you" as in you, but a general "you".
Edited by Uesugi Kenshin, Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:34 am.
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wodash
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undefeated in all directions
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Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:28 am
Except this is going to be a game with older Yukimura, so it's incredibly likely that Osaka will be a main draw of the game as it'd be pointless to give him a whole different moveset just for two stages.
Bao Sanniang and Ma Dai(two of the few non clones) was not even playable in story mode in DW7, just saying, KT can be really odd sometimes when it comes to new adds/which character gets a new/unique moveset
AntonKutovoi
Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:35 am
And baiting Hidetada.
-We know that Yukimura arrived in Osaka. Hand him over immediately.
-We have about ten Yukimuras there. I don't know who is the real one, so you should come see for yourself.
i thought he said 30 Yukimuras? :uh:

but yeah, the statement still pretty much the same no matter what the correct number is.

he got lots of wits, that's for sure, but i don't see how that can be translated to a playable character form, ditto with Hidetada who is simply the angriest and most villainous looking pacifist in animu history :wacko:

also Fuuma should have Stock Footage no Jutsu in this game during the Kodayama chapter, attacking enemies with repeated poorly animated lame claw attack, just like the animu :haha:
Edited by wodash, Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:56 am.
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Rance
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Yuki Oh. No.
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Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:33 am
Ōsaka can barely be more than two battles (if more than one at all), there is absolutely no reason to add two useless characters just because of a single event when multiple others can contribute MUCH more than them.
Osaka featured the deployment of tens of thousands of troops on both sides in two campaigns. I have no idea why you think it should only be two battles tops.
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Makörë
Makörë
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Rance
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:58 am
Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:33 am
Ōsaka can barely be more than two battles (if more than one at all), there is absolutely no reason to add two useless characters just because of a single event when multiple others can contribute MUCH more than them.
Osaka featured the deployment of tens of thousands of troops on both sides in two campaigns. I have no idea why you think it should only be two battles tops.
I don't know, maybe because thats how its always been: ONE battle. And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway.
Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:33 am
snip
Now I ask you, do YOU seriously believe they'll give that much detail to this or any battle at all?
Edited by Makörë, Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:36 am.
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bluefiend
Emperor's Retainer
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Zai Tong
Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:06 am
AntonKutovoi
Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:20 pm
Zai Tong
Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:10 pm
So hideyori another liu chan and hidetada another yuan shao lol oh dear that's going to be annoying
While Hidetada's comparision to Yuan Shao somewhat can work (even if only slightly. Very slightly), Hideyori is nothing like Liu Shan. Have you checked their personalities?
The games makes hideyori seem weak unsure of what to do and is supposed to live up to his fathers legacy I said liu. Chan as the only time I see him not like that is a cutscene from XL7 and like hideyori he was expected to live up to his fathers legacy
Maya
Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:18 pm
Kunoichi certainly does not need much screen time in this game which wants to be more historical. Her character has absolutely no role at all and just is a waste of a character spot anyway which could be needed by many other characters over the course of the game for example Sasuke, Yodo or Akihime.

In fact it's really bad that they still have not removed her, her character has not point since she doesn't even represent the 10 Braves properly.
She was good in sw1 they should have stuck with that attitude and design but then koei destroyed her
Fuuma
Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:27 pm
As I've said before, the supposed aging system is mostly just a relatively easy technique to make the game feel more realistic and mainly to show that a lot of time passes within the story. I don't think there is much more to it than that and the movesets are likely to stay the same because I don't think it will bother anyone if old Yukimura fights the same way as young Yukimura.

Why the aging system hasn't been added a long time ago already, I have no clue, but I'm glad they now picked it up because it isn't very convincing that when the story covers literally many, many decades, the characters look the same. I'm just hoping the aging feature will affect a lot of characters here, or actually, everyone who's around long enough that they need more than 1 character model.
Koei needs to allow that age to effect kanetsugu too it be a little weird with him not aging alongside Yukimura since he was there for Osaka as well
ugh, I probably shouldn't allow myself to hope for this. But I myself am actually hoping Kunoichi ages up too and ends up aging into her SW1 self.
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Valamanj
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Fine, twist my arm...
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Makörin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:34 am
]I don't know, maybe because thats how its always been: ONE battle. And before you say that they can increase the number of battles on Sanada-maru, if they do that, they'll do it to all battles, then, which makes Hideyori and Hidetada proportionally useless anyway.
Uesugi Kenshin
Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:33 am
snip
Now I ask you, do YOU seriously believe they'll give that much detail to this or any battle at all?
If I remember correctly, didn't Chronicles on the 3DS have Osaka as two campaigns? I could be wrong, but I feel like it did...

Either way, I don't see how them expanding upon Osaka in this game would be so far-fetched. The game is Sanada-centric, after all, and Yukimura's stand at Osaka is pretty much what he's most famous for.
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